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The Problem With Muslims And Nudity?  
User currently offlineEK20 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2240 times:



The man who publishes a toned-down version of Playboy magazine in Indonesia will not be jailed after he was cleared of violating indecency laws. Editor-in-chief Erwin Arnada had included photographs of women in underwear, some with partially exposed breasts, but no nudity.

He had faced a maximum prison term of more than two years and hailed the judge's ruling as a victory for free-speech.

The decision not to jail him has angered religious hardliners in the world's most populous Muslim nation. The pictures in the Indonesia version of Playboy are less risque than in other magazines sold in the country. But rock-throwing conservatives demanded its offices be closed immediately after the first edition hit newsagents a year ago.

Why do Muslims have such a problem with nudity?  Confused

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2230 times:

Some do some don't. It depends on the interpretation by the government in terms of prosecution and the individual in terms of whether or not they have a problem with nudity. None of the Muslims I've ever met have a problem with it.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Because they are hundreds of years behind the times and need to start facing reality?

*now watch me get flamed for making such a horrendous statement but the people who do the flaming are just as quick to say Christianity and Judaism need to stop living in the past and get with the times.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting EK20 (Thread starter):
Why do

Muslims, Christians, Catholics, Protestants, and on and on..

Quoting EK20 (Thread starter):
have such a problem with nudity?

It's  redflag  If 'god' had such a problem with us being naked why aren't we born wearing Donna Karan or Eddie Bauer?

It's yet another example of how stupid we humans are as a mass entity.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

This has nothing to do with nudity, but with prejudiced occidentalism and anti-Americanism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6528529.stm

The Indonesian version of the magazine went on sale for the first time last April, featuring several scantily-clad models but no nudity.

It drew weeks of protests, despite the fact that pornography is widely available in Indonesia.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29792 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 2):
Because they are hundreds of years behind the times and need to start facing reality?

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 2):
*now watch me get flamed for making such a horrendous statement but the people who do the flaming are just as quick to say Christianity and Judaism need to stop living in the past and get with the times


Agreed, so fight on!!  box 



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 5):

Well, i had made a comment earlier but it got deleted. I just remarked as to how all religious groups are offended by nudity, whether it be catholics, protestants, jews or hindus. Many religious institutions are pissed off when there is a adult video store in their community, so if Islam may be in the dark ages so is Christianity. I dont know about how many adult film stores there are in Jerusalem or an orthodox jewish neighborhood but i seriosuly have my doubts here. But as one post earlier replied there are tonnes of pornography material in indonesia which no-one cares about but the fact that Playboy is a american symbol is the reason for all these protests.

P.S.: I dont have any problem with nudity or playboy, infact I'm an avid reader Big grin



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
I just remarked as to how all religious groups are offended by nudity



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
Many religious institutions are pissed off when there is a adult video store in their community,

Nudity isn't the same as pornography. Only heavy duty religious indoctrination by emotionally backwards people makes people equate ALL nudity with sex to the point where people won't even be nude in their own homes when they're alone.

If you consider that several Christian groups used to baptise their members nude in lakes and rivers you'll see that not even all Christians subscribe to that idea (of course those groups were persecuted as heretical by the rest and mostly exterminated centuries ago, just as Islam is now out to exterminate everyone who holds different beliefs and customs from their own).

Intollerance of different belief systems (even in minute details) is prevalent in all major religions (and most minor ones, but they lack the punch to do much about it).
In that Elton John was correct in stating that religion is a major cause of intollerance and violence in the world (but his assertion is that it's only Christianity and Judaism who are to blame). Of course he then goes on to show his own atheist (another highly intollerant religion) intollerance by showing videos of burning churches as the backdrop to a concert...

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
so if Islam may be in the dark ages so is Christianity.

However, Christians don't (and haven't for centuries) go around firebombing and murdering people they don't like on (claimed) religious grounds...
Christianity (and Judaism, and Hinduism) has grown up beyond that stage.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 7):
However, Christians don't (and haven't for centuries) go around firebombing and murdering people they don't like on (claimed) religious grounds.

Well, in the netherlands i highly doubt the existence of christian fundamentalists or jewish fundamentalists. Recently, i saw something on the news of a jewish terrorist group, yes JEWISH TERRORIST GROUP which attacked palestinian schoolchildren by driving a car in front of thier school and hoping to detonate it when school let out, luckily those bastards were caught. Now i dont know what this seems like to you but this is the same as fundamentalist muslims going out and killing other people.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 7):
However, Christians don't (and haven't for centuries) go around firebombing and murdering people they don't like on (claimed) religious grounds...

I dont know what u mean by "havent for centuries" but people who are Christians, although their actions may not have been done in the name of their religion have committed untold number of crimes. In fact upto the 1950's the KKK, a group that believed that GOD was white, and were an offshoot of protestantism went and killed african americans.

Im sorry to say, but blaming a religion because the actions of a few individuals is not a good idea. My points above are just a few rebuttals to your points but as i said you cant make your decision about a religion by discerning from the actions of a few people.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1876 times:
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Quoting EK20 (Thread starter):
Why do Muslims have such a problem with nudity?

Not all muslims find nudity a big deal, it all depends on the country and the government. Obviously in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Iran it is a complete no-no. But in other muslim states it is accepted and tolerated although still conservative about it. But the pressing point is that Islam like every other major religion prohibits unwanted sex, sexual images and sexual acts in society in general. Women are not seen as sex symbols nor are they used as a sex object for male pleasure. Unlike the west, sex does not sell in the muslim world, and the bottom line is that sex is frowned upon unless you're married. I don't really see why people seem to get bothered by this, people need to start respecting religious beliefs even if they don't believe in religion. If religion 'X' say's this is not allowed, then you have to accept it. It doesn't mean it's "backwards" or it's in the "dark ages" or any other intolerant nonsense people come up with. Who are you to judge what is 'backwards' or not?. I personally don't have a problem with pornography or anything of that nature being sold in my neck of woods, as long as it doesn't fall into the hands of children.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 9):
Women are not seen as sex symbols nor are they used as a sex object for male pleasure. Unlike the west, sex does not sell in the muslim world, and the bottom line is that sex is frowned upon unless you're married.

No, women are very much seen as sex objects, some of the most sexually repressed men Ive ever known are muslim men in western worlds. When they are out of country, this repression turns into promiscuity. Sex outside of marriage seems to fine as long you are male and its with non-muslims.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting EK20 (Thread starter):
Why do Muslims have such a problem with nudity?

So do prudish people and religious nutcases from all religions.

When Heffner first published Playboy, there was a massive hue and cry in this country. Most states had anti-pornography laws and finding Playboy outside the major East and West coast urban centers of NY and LA would have been next to impossible. In the 60s and 70s, several Supreme Court decisions on free speech essentially resulted in the wide-spread availability of published and screened articles showing nudity and sex in various forms.

In countries like Indonesia and much of the Islamic world, the clergy are very powerful and either control the government or are in an unholy alliance with it. They're a rabid, stupid, ugly, nasty lot and have problems with anything to do with sex.

But I think that Americans have a major issue with nudity as well. Nude and topless beaches are rare in the US, while quite common in Europe. European advertisements regularly feature topless women as well as nude men and women. In contrast, our ads could never do that.

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 2):
Because they are hundreds of years behind the times and need to start facing reality?

Great. Now lets open up a gay porn store in your neighborhood and lets see how many years ahead of the times you are.


User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1721 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
Great. Now lets open up a gay porn store in your neighborhood and lets see how many years ahead of the times you are

hahaha, are you kidding me!? where in the hell did you come up with that? Honestly, where did it say ANYTHING about a gay porn store? The thread is about a MAGAZINE. Anyway, even if a gay porn store (do those even exist?) moved into my neighborhood, I wouldn't stage protests and riots and throw rocks as these people seem to do on a daily basis. So... I still stand by my original statement...

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 2):
Because they are hundreds of years behind the times and need to start facing reality?



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1707 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
P.S.: I dont have any problem with nudity or playboy, infact I'm an avid reader

I just look at the pictures .... Big grin

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
But I think that Americans have a major issue with nudity as well. Nude and topless beaches are rare in the US, while quite common in Europe. European advertisements regularly feature topless women as well as nude men and women. In contrast, our ads could never do that.

I wanted to add to this thread yesterday, but I never got around to it. I find that it's not really the religions that have a problem with nudity (or other "sins"), but it's more the countries or cultures themselves. In Germany, where the Catholic Church is still very influential, nudity is very common on TV, billboards or even the daily newspaper. It's accepted as is and nobody (not even the church) seems to have a problem with it. Yet in North America, the Governments seem to have make up a rule/law for everything to "protect" our society. As an example, nudity/pornography is not acceptable to be viewed by anyone under the age of 18.

If you go to a church in Germany, most people after the service (including the pastor/reverend) will usually head out to the pub afterwards for a quick drink and loosen up. Yet, even mention the word "pub" or "pint" in a North American church and the congregation will lay their healing hands on you and free you from your alcoholism.

Anyway, my feeling is that it's not the religion that has such high levels of censorship, it's the mentality of the people it's imposed onto.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6836 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1591 times:

Quote:
Obviously in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Iran it is a complete no-no.

Playboy in Indonesia is actually BORING, the other local men's magazines are a lot more vulgar, tasteless, and even push the thin line between skin exposure and nudity...

If they want consistency, go and hit the other more vulgar magazines first... These protestors need to find better things to do... like perhaps go with the mainstream who likes skin but no nudity...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

Some Muslim nations seem, by general Western standards, as hopelessly repressed, often virulently misogynistic - the two seem to go hand in hand, as well as insanely het up about the direction of other people's sexuality.

But, the US is seen, from a european perspective, in many areas as almost as bad as some Muslim nations, certainly that odd acceptance of depictions of violence, but not sex.
As well as seeming very much more prudish generally, with powerful political and faith based agitation to back this up.
But it's a big nation, Nevada is not the same as the Bible Belt - parts of which seem to be more like Christian versions of the Muslim nations we are talking about.
So I'd not be so easy and quick to condemn others, as some US posters have been.

But within Europe too, a few the new Eastern European EU nations seem to the Western ones, much more intolerant in some cases - Poland currently has a very conservative government with a powerful catholic church.
Yet as mentioned, Germany has a large catholic base, France - where they really don't give a toss about such things, is mainly catholic.

Then Scandinavia, the model of tolerance and lack of repression. It just so happens they have the best stats for lowest numbers of teen pregnancies, STD levels etc, puts the British to shame on these that's for sure.

We in the UK, have a reputation for prudishness, historically mostly unjustified, save for the late 19th to mid/late 20th century.
I hardly think the best selling national tabloid, with bare breasts on page 3, for the past 38 years, shows this is still the case.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 2):



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
It's redflag If 'god' had such a problem with us being naked why aren't we born wearing Donna Karan or Eddie Bauer?

I suggest you two do a little more research before making blanket statements about nudity and specific religions. You would actually be surprised at some of the stuff mentioned about it in the Bible.

Hint for Ted: You don't have to read too far in to see your above statement addressed.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

AFAIK, the ban on nudity in Judaism, Christianity and islam comes from the fact that the ancient Jews tried to distinguish themselves from the Greeks and Romans, who cherished nudism and the human body, especially in athletic competitions, which were carried out nude.

Since Christianity and Islam both derive from Judaism, all three of these religions are quite similar in this aspect (at least if you have a look at the more fundamentalist branches).

Jan


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

There are many parts of "mainstream" America that seem to have an issue with nudity.

The whole world was laughing, (well, maybe not Indonesia) as the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction SCANDAL!!!" was blown out of all proportion.


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