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Terrible Day In Baghdad  
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Yesterday was a terrible day in Baghdad and throughout the country of Iraq.

***

BAGHDAD - Grieving relatives retrieved bodies from hospital morgues Thursday, and passers-by gawked at the giant crater left by a market bomb in one of four attacks that killed 183 people on the bloodiest day since the U.S. troop increase began nine weeks ago.

But violence did not abate Thursday, as a suicide bomber exploded in another mostly Shiite district, killing at least 11 people and wounding 28, police said. The car bomb exploded next to a fuel tanker in Karradah, setting fire to the truck. The death toll was expected to rise.

U.S. officials have reported a decrease in sectarian killings in Baghdad since the U.S.-Iraqi security crackdown was launched Feb. 14. But the past week has seen several spectacular attacks in the capital, including a suicide bombing inside parliament and a powerful blast that collapsed a landmark bridge across the Tigris River. The number of bodies dumped in the streets of Baghdad also has risen significantly.

Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, the Iraqi military spokesman, said, "We have not seen such a wave of attacks since the security plan began. These are terrorist challenges. Ninety-five percent of those killed today were civilians."...

...Nationwide the number of people killed Wednesday or found dead was 233, which was second only to a total of 281 killed or found dead on Nov. 23, 2006. Those figures are according to AP record-keeping, which began in May 2005.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

***

I hope that these people find peace soon, and I hope that our soldiers come home soon.


NO URLS in signature
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I hope that these people find peace soon, and I hope that our soldiers come home soon.

Me too. You got to wonder if the more twisted republican operatives are taking some delight in the VT incident as a distraction. This story was barely visible in last nights coverage.


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I hope that these people find peace soon.

That won't happen until other countries stop meddling in Iraq's internal affairs.

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I hope that our soldiers come home soon

Not until the job done, mission accomplished.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Me too. You got to wonder if the more twisted republican operatives are taking some delight in the VT incident as a distraction. This story was barely visible in last nights coverage.

What the hell are you talking about, Ted?

These stories are never huge media events. Never reaching 1/10 the size of the VirginiaTech story.

And it has nothing to do with political operatives.  Yeah sure It has everything to do with the fact the American public is completely removed from the war being wage 8,000 miles away.

It's not top news, because a lot of people don't care.

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
I hope that these people find peace soon

I just don't know how it can be done, until we find some way to teach Muslims to have respect for the lives of other Muslims. There is so much killing in the name of Allah occurring in Iraq, one wonders if Allah has a direct hot-line to these murders? They certainly seem to be getting "messages" by the hour from him.

Iraqis killing Iraqis. Syrians killing Iraqis. Iranians killing Iraqis. Saudis killing Iraqis. Yemeni killing Iraqis. And the moment US soldier step between their barbaric killing sprees... they instantly become the focus of each and every one of them.

We're the cops trying to break up a drunken bar fight.

-UH60


User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
We're the cops trying to break up a drunken bar fight.

Or worse yet, we're the cops trying to break up a long-running and drunken domestic disturbance.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
to teach Muslims



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
lives of other Muslims.

-
Muslims, Muslims, Muslims .............. and what has the whole mess to do with Islam and "Muslims" ? True, people in the area happen to be Muslims ..................................
-
the problem has a name and that is "Iraq". You can blame various sides, but it of course is a fact that internal conflicts inevitably leads to "help" from neighbours, for instance in the Spanish Civil War, as shown here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica


-


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
We're the cops trying to break up a drunken bar fight.

Sounds like a prison riot, actually. Time to back out and let them sort it out themselves.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 2):
Not until the job done, mission accomplished.

I thought that happened on May 1, 2003.



We've had our "fun" in the big sandbox. Time for the boys to pick up their toys and come home.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
the cops trying to break up a drunken bar fight.

what about the cops leaving the bar ?  duck 
-


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):

Great example of what is wrong with the Middle East; instead of pointing the finger, laying blame, you ENABLE, you profer excuses, reasons for why things are the way they are. Offer a solution that is viable.

That way you won't have to dodge rocks.


User currently offlineQueenofDaSkies From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 99 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

the REAL question is, when is it a good day in Baghdad?


It's time to FLY!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):

Yup I blame Muslims for the majority of the killing.

Because you see MAF... I am totally and completely NUTS! You see... I am so crazy that when Muslims are violently murdering one another over petty differences... here it comes!... I am so crazy that I actually blame them for their murderous acts!

AH! Send me to the nut house!  Yeah sure

Of course I blame them. The real question, MAF, why do you continually write the Muslim community blank checks to continue their horrific goals in Iraq? Why do you continually turn a blind eye to the Muslims who are spilling blood by the hundreds every day?

It's a funny thing MAF... because you love to blame America for everything fucked up in Iraq. But last time I checked, it was me... a murderous, heartless American soldier... who landed his Black Hawk between a group of gunmen and pinned-down Iraqis, so that we could safely evacuate them. It's funny that EVIL AMERICANS are continually putting themselves at risk to save lives in Iraq, while their fellow Muslims are wildly butchering and murdering.

But you never seem to have time to vigorously go after the murdering Muslims,... but there is always time in the day to take cheap shots at US Soldiers. Isn't that right MAF?  Yeah sure

-UH60


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Yup I blame Muslims for the majority of the killing.

Add me to that list as well.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
We're the cops trying to break up a drunken bar fight.

Poor analogy. For us to get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight, someone has to call and ask us to respond to break up the fight. Nobody called the U.S. from Baghdad and said, "Come break up our fight please".


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3852 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

"That won't happen until other countries stop meddling in Iraq's internal affairs."

Which countries, U.S. and U.K.?



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 12):
Poor analogy. For us to get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight, someone has to call and ask us to respond to break up the fight. Nobody called the U.S. from Baghdad and said, "Come break up our fight please".

Nope... it's a perfect analogy.

Maybe you'd be right if the entire country/region was united against the allied forces in Iraq... but they're not. Muslims from numerous middle eastern countries are engaged in a mammoth battle against EACH OTHER.

What we encountered was a continual decrease in the number of direct attacks against US/Allied troops and installations. Mortar attacks decreased. RPG attacks decreased. Random small arms fire in the direction of soldiers decreased. Etc...

Slowly the focus was less on killing American soldiers, and more on killing fellow Muslims.

Where we get ourselves hurt, is when we are called out to stop the fighting between the multitude of battling sects. Two sides are engaged in a gun battle, we roll up, step in between to attempt to restore order, and it's very dangerous. We lose some very fine young men and women because they were trying to put an end to needless murder and butchery between Muslims fighting Muslims.

....Just like cops going into a bar fight.

-UH60


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
"That won't happen until other countries stop meddling in Iraq's internal affairs."

Which countries, U.S. and U.K.?

Nationals from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, and so on.

Not to mention the support Syria and Iran gives to the insurgency via weapons, money and shelter.

There is a HUGE difference between attempting to create a stable and safe atmosphere in Iraq... and actively engaging in an attempt to throw the country into turmoil.

-UH60


User currently offline53Sqdn From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting QueenofDaSkies (Reply 9):
the REAL question is, when is it a good day in Baghdad?

This has to be the most relevant answer, ever, in all of the Iraq threads so far. QueenofDaSkies, I salute you!


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
Nope... it's a perfect analogy.

Maybe you'd be right if the entire country/region was united against the allied forces in Iraq... but they're not.

I understand the entire region isn't against allied forces in Iraq. My point is, your analogy that troops doing battle in Iraq are like cops breaking up a bar fight is flawed. Cops typically do not get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight without being requested to do so. No one called our Commander in Chief and said, "Please come to Iraq and break up our fight".
He pretty much took on that initiative all by himself.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3852 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Nationals from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, and so on.

Thanks for the clarification


the REAL question is, when is it a good day in Baghdad?

Probably when only 33 people get shot to death. Everything is relative I guess...



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offline53Sqdn From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

BTW, how many can remember when Sadam was our 'buddy'? You know, almost the best thing since sliced bread in the region. Who sold him Aircraft? Who sold him weapons? Who the feck is to blame? Yup! Has to be an outside force surely

User currently offlineEmirates773er From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
understand the entire region isn't against allied forces in Iraq. My point is, your analogy that troops doing battle in Iraq are like cops breaking up a bar fight is flawed. Cops typically do not get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight without being requested to do so. No one called our Commander in Chief and said, "Please come to Iraq and break up our fight".

Exactly. The problem here is that people like to intervene into other peoples affairs without thinking twice what the outcome may be. If you got yourself into sorting out a bar fight then you need to do it right else stop blaming the drunks and don't let the door hit you on your way out. Simple really.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):

Nationals from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, and so on.

And I always though Saudi Arabia, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen to be allies with the US.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Quoting 53Sqdn (Reply 19):
BTW, how many can remember when Sadam was our 'buddy'? You know, almost the best thing since sliced bread in the region. Who sold him Aircraft? Who sold him weapons? Who the feck is to blame? Yup! Has to be an outside force surely

Saddam left the farm guy .. he had a chance to be a great leader of Iraq. He could have been far better off cultivating a up front alliance with the US. But he chose to become the corrupt ,power hungry tyrant that it led to his down fall.

And besides the Fench and Russians were his largest Arms supplier...



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineFlyingbabydoc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):
inevitably leads to "help" from neighbours, for instance in the Spanish Civil War

I did not quite get your analogy. If you meant neighbours such Iran or Syria, than maybe appropriate, yet interesting on how you vehemently defended such countries when the subject was Israel. Perhaps then your associating these neighbours with Nazi Germany implicates some deeper (personal) issues (and wishes) with the ongoing conflict with the Jewish people. Otherwise, you were associating these "neighbours" with the US, which would make such comparison preposterous and infamous. Should this be the case (i.e. the US acting similarly to the Condor Legion in Spain), they would simply annihilate as many cities and population as to subjugate the country completely and install a phony dictator to keep-safe the recent-gained authority, not remove one dictator and attempt to restore peace in a shattered country. Actually, a bombing like Guernica would make life much easier and bring the war faster to an end, although morally inconceivable and a FAR cry from what is being done (see all posts by UH60FtRucker for that matter, if you are able to unbiasedly read). To call US troops anything similar to the Condor Legion is not only insulting, but rather historically inaccurate.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
there is always time in the day to take cheap shots at US Soldiers

See above. As I said, the reasons may be debatable (for the US presence in Iraq), but to compare them with Nazi mercenaries is simply wrong. Not that who posted it cares in the least bit, but it still remains wrong.

Alex


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
Cops typically do not get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight without being requested to do so.

Really?

Law enforcement will only stop disorder/violence when someone calls them to do so?

The rest of the time they just sit there and wait for the call?

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
I understand the entire region isn't against allied forces in Iraq. My point is, your analogy that troops doing battle in Iraq are like cops breaking up a bar fight is flawed. Cops typically do not get involved in breaking up a drunken bar fight without being requested to do so. No one called our Commander in Chief and said, "Please come to Iraq and break up our fight".

You're talking about the reasons why we went to Iraq in the first place. And I would completely agree my analogy doesn't make any sense for those reasons. But I am talking about why we're still in Iraq, and what our primary mission is.

And lately, our primary mission is to try and maintain some semblance of peace between multiple groups of Muslims who are violently slaughtering one another. And yes, Iraqis are asking the US to help them in this respect.

The way it works was typically a local leader would contact US forces and inform us of local fighting. They might give us a vague description, or they might give us exact details. We would go to the area, at their request, and attempt to restore order.

Or if there was an active engagement in process, we would get a request by Iraqi officials or the ISF to intervene... the closest American assets would move in to break up the scuffle. When you looked at Iraq, and you looked at the areas we had overwhelming numbers - where we met Army doctrine of 1 soldier per 20 citizens - there was relative peace and quiet. We essentially "owned" that piece of real estate, and denied the insurgents the ability to operate and survive.

However, when you looked at areas of Iraq where our numbers were weak, is where you typically found the highest level of violence and disorder. So we move into that region to crush the insurgency... but by doing so we have to pull troops away from other areas, thus leaving those places now vulnerable for insurgents to move in.

The only way we can insure success is by meeting the doctrine of 1:20. And to do so, we need A LOT more troops. Just like General Anthony Zinni predicted in the late 1990s - the US would require roughly 400,000 troops to control Iraq. And with only 140,000 of us in Iraq, we're proving just how right he is.

Quoting Emirates773er (Reply 20):
Exactly. The problem here is that people like to intervene into other peoples affairs without thinking twice what the outcome may be. If you got yourself into sorting out a bar fight then you need to do it right else stop blaming the drunks and don't let the door hit you on your way out. Simple really.

So don't get involved?

Even if both sides are wildly murdering one another? Even when the lack of respect for human life is disgustingly absent?

Don't get involved? That's pretty cold hearted.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):
And I always though Saudi Arabia, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen to be allies with the US.

The governments, perhaps.

But I can testify that we regularly encountered foreign nationals from those nations, fighting on the behalf of the insurgency.

-UH60

[Edited 2007-04-19 17:35:04]

25 QueenofDaSkies : So you think the US should get involved in EVERY conflict and/or even where there is a lack of respect for human life? Since when is the US suppose t
26 UH60FtRucker : Unfortunately, ME AVN FAN has showed us a very ugly side of himself in the past, and tipped his cards regarding his true feelings towards Jews. He po
27 Flyingbabydoc : Same reason why it does not seem to be a problem to watch these massive killings and do nothing about it, or rather blame all in the US to begin with
28 Jaysit : The average American dimwit is probably more interested in what the Olson twins are eating (or not), than how many tens of thousands Iraqis have needl
29 Flyingbabydoc : No, not the US only, but certainly all of us who witness such conflicts should voice our disgust and do everything possible to prevent any further de
30 ME AVN FAN : I do NOT write blank checks to anybody. The problem is NOT "the Muslim community" but murderous groups of extremists in Iraq. They happen to be Musli
31 UH60FtRucker : I don't think I suggested we get involved militarily with every conflict. But I did question whether it was wise to simply ignore them... because, "I
32 Flyingbabydoc : And I would hope more people would think like you. Particularly in what concerns the callousness towards human life. When you have to fight to save o
33 53Sqdn : 'Saddam left the farm guy' ???? What's that supposed to mean AG100? Then your next sentence sums it up nicely... He could have been far better off cu
34 QueenofDaSkies : really? Well let me requote what you said......... that to me looks like you are suggesting we get involved. so tell me this, do you honestly believe
35 ME AVN FAN : USA, UK, Saudi Arabia, Iran. - While it is undeniable that also Yemenis, Omanis, Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians were and are among the culprits, Y
36 AndesSMF : Interesting to note that some here opposed to Iraq are quick to call for the US to get involved in Darfur and Zimbabwe. Whoever here has called for U
37 Post contains images Flyingbabydoc : Still, if this is becoming (who am I kidding - it is already) a civil war similar to the Spanish one, the resolution of the conflict will only come w
38 UH60FtRucker : Good point. Like I pointed out to MAF earlier in the thread, often the same men and women who are selflessly stepping between Muslims killing Muslims
39 Arrow : Yup. While we dump on all those other Middle East countries -- Iraq's neighbours -- for clandestine meddling in Iraq's internal affairs, we forget th
40 777236ER : Nope, wrong, sorry. The vast majority of the violence in Iraq is sectarian.
41 Tbar220 : Very. There are 230 dead Iraqis in one day's of extremely bad violence (bombings, shooting, etc.) If this were to happen in any other country - and I
42 UH60FtRucker : This kind of thinking boggles the mind. "If we hadn't gotten involved in the ME hundreds of years ago." "If we hadn't left Saddam in charge after 199
43 AndesSMF : Before a lot of you continue in the same line of Rumsfeld and Saddam picture, you better read up on the actual history of military support for Iraq, b
44 Post contains images AGM100 : To logical babydoc .. I like to simplify things a bit ... Simple question The US plan for invasion was to overthrow Saddam eliminate his weapons and
45 Dougloid : [quote=UH60FtRucker,reply=3]I just don't know how it can be done, until we find some way to teach Muslims to have respect for the lives of other Musli
46 Emirates773er : Not at all. Being cold hearted and closing your eyes to this massacre would be disgusting to say the least but the question is how should it be stopp
47 Cairo : It's quite disingenuous to ignore the religious aspect of all this, specifically that Sadr, the Iranian Ayatollahs, Muslim clerics in the KSA and Egy
48 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : I honour the endeavours of the American soldiers in this respect, but regard the American presence as one of the major reasons for the mess. - Here o
49 777236ER : Now you're just contradicting yourself. The violence is sectarian, therefore it is a 'Muslim thing', just like The Troubles in Northern Ireland were
50 Aaron747 : You mean like every American in the ME? If one hasn't been invited by anyone in troubled parties to offer solutions, they should keep their mouth shu
51 HKA : Can someone explain why all this violence was not happening when Sadam was in power ??
52 AndesSMF : Because the troublemakers were taken out of circulation by any means necessary prior to them causing any problem.
53 Miamiair : The violence was happening under Saddam's reign, look at the Kurds that were gassed, the Sunni's in the Southern marshes that were exterminated.
54 Post contains links Confuscius : The violence was happening under Saddam's reign, look at the Kurds that were gassed, the Sunni's in the Southern marshes that were exterminated. I bel
55 Miamiair : You are correct, my mistake.
56 ME AVN FAN : no, THE violence comes from various sides, and a lot of it is NOT sectarian. And most of the violence is NOT directed against the other denomination
57 777236ER : Evidence please.
58 Yellowstone : I must call BS on this. This is the same argument people use to defend Bush's decision to go to war - "at the time, everybody thought he had WMD's, s
59 AGM100 : I dont know for sure because I am not thier .. But I would tend to agree with this. Al Qada or like groups do not care who they kill .. Sunni / Shia
60 Dougloid : Hmmmmmm......do the Turks have a taste for foreign adventurism or are they pragmatists? My guess is that they could care less as long as the mess sta
61 Flyingbabydoc : Indeed. Or, even preciser, it is a failure in the system to achieve a leadership, which results in a struggle for power among the various factions. T
62 Dougloid : As foolish statements go, this is one of the better ones that have surfaced today. Assuming that it's made at face value, the answer is, you weren't
63 Arrow : I have read up on it. My reference was to the west, not just the U.S. Yes, the French, the British, the Russians, the Germans -- all had their snouts
64 Dougloid : No. Saddam was a home grown monster, who was enabled and facilitated by a lot of people so as to make sales of weaponry and to buy oil. I am quite su
65 Prebennorholm : Right Alex. It seems mostly forgotten how bad things were before 2003. For 12 years from 1991 until 2003 US and UK pilots each day risked their life
66 Post contains images AndesSMF : Well said! Arrow, I don't think I have seen such a well written concise history of the support Iraq received. Hopefully many here read that reply.
67 HKA : People here are talking about the violence that Saddam inflicted against shias or kurds or the war with Iran. But my question is ' was there sectarian
68 Prebennorholm : For the time being, he is right. Except for one thing: It is not even history. It never existed as a country. It was a territory ruled in a barbarian
69 Post contains links Tbar220 : Let's not forget Iran-Contra now. While we were giving money to and weapons to Iraq, we were giving money and weapons to Iran at the same time. Iran
70 Dougloid : Well said, friend.
71 Arrow : I hadn't forgotten it. Yet another example of the kind of meddling the world can do without. I think the U.S. goal at the time was to make sure neith
72 Venus6971 : Maybe that is the plan , to have these jackass's kill each other in their sectarian wars and bleed their 7th century hearts and minds back to a BC ti
73 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : here a statement of Prime Minister el-Maliki : Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged Iraqis to put aside their sectarian, ethnic and political
74 Blrsea : The Bush administration never had a plan for post-war iraq. They assumed that the population would welcome them as liberators and the US forces would
75 Baroque : True, but please don't suggest (not saying you do) that there was not advice beforehand that this would likely happen. Even MI6 knew that! I am sure
76 Venus6971 : A little revisionist 20/20 hindsight, Saddam was bluffing and he got called big time so he could look like the big time Arab hero staring down the gr
77 UH60FtRucker : I was wondering when you were going to soop in on this thread. But in all honesty, Baroque, you're probably one of the most negative a.netters, when
78 Dougloid : Sixty, a lot of people around here would prefer to sit on their safe sidelines and blame Bush for everything, find fault in our character, and make e
79 Arrow : He's got lots of support. You're on the ground in Iraq and I respect that. But there's an old expression about not being able to see the forest for t
80 Post contains images Kay : Terrible day in Baghdad, and what an irony that it is all happening under the "Baghdad security tightening" plan of 9 weeks ago. Why bother? The US sh
81 ME AVN FAN : you ought to replace your TV-set. Few Arabs were crying about the toppling of Saddam, THIS particular aspect even was welcomed. What was disliked was
82 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : It's not about which one of us is more popular or which one has the most support. It's about being fair, realistic and HONEST. I think most people wh
83 Dougloid : Fine. Bush is guilty. So's Rumsfeld. And Cheney. And a bajillion other people in DC. It was dumb. He got reelected. The world knows it. Everyone in C
84 Venus6971 : You got to break some eggs to make an omelet. What do you prefer that an Turkish,Iranian,Kuwati,Syrian an Saudi Army do it instead. The US gave the I
85 Blrsea : The iraqis will kill each other, whether the US stays there or not. It is not like the US is holding peace in Iraq. The daily bombings in Iraq after t
86 Kay : So the US was designated to fix the problems of the Middle East?? Dude, there were civilizations going on in the Middle East before there were bisons
87 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Any Arab army would have been preferred, but people preferred the USA/UK over Iranians or Turks. - such things were NOT "chosen" by the Iraqis in gen
88 Venus6971 : Over 10000 wounded and 3000 dead GI's, yes we understand the burden of responsibility, but many of my latte drinking fellow Americans can't be bother
89 Arrow : I'll be happier when the people who created the mess -- your list will do for now -- are held accountable for what they did. So far, they're complete
90 Baroque : Your contributions have been and are valued UH even by those who thought first that the war was not a good idea in prospect, that the occupation was
91 AGM100 : The world is much different now than it was in the 1920's. The world economy is intertwined to the point that these regions of conflict can not just
92 Arrow : Not that much. The Brits were in there because they had just converted their fleet from coal to oil, and they wanted to make sure they had control ov
93 Dougloid : Fine.....what is YOUR solution that minimizes the loss of life and installs relative peace and order? I mean, WTF is it with you people? Bitching is
94 ME AVN FAN : > expand the Iraqi Armed Forces by re-integrating the former officer corps and former soldiers > improve the Iraqi Armed Forces by re-establishing th
95 Aaron747 : Bellicose ranting at best, intellectually dishonest hogwash at worst. There is not, at current, a functional, much less effective plan to keep these
96 Dougloid : Speak for yourself and can the adolescent claptrap. Answer the question. seeing as the back bench does not seem to be able to come up with anything c
97 Aaron747 : No different than the daily situation in al-Bashir's Sudan, Wen's China, Kim's North Korea, Mugabe's Zimbabwe, and Clinton's ignorance of Rwanda. Var
98 Blrsea : What is the US doing? Are you able to prevent any suicide bombings? One of the reasons the bombings are going on is to show the US in bad light and t
99 ME AVN FAN : This is NOT true. You can live and work without any problems in Khartoum, Port Sudan and most other places in that country. There may be a mess in a
100 Cedars747 : Dont waist your time ME ,most people are brainwashed by the Bush and Israeli strategy and many of them dont even know where is Sudan or Khartoum.The
101 ME AVN FAN : As I, on a visit enroute to Yemen, really loved the nice city of Khartoum, in spite of rather "heavy" temperatures, and the nice people and the even
102 Cedars747 : Yes I know,many Businessmen from Lebanon talk about the good business opportunities Sudan is offering them.I think BA fly from LON to KHA via BEY Ale
103 Post contains images Baroque : As I suspect history will show.
104 Aaron747 : That wasn't the point and you know it. Stop trying to deflect otherwise.
105 ME AVN FAN : - That WAS the point which seriously irked me. That your main argument was different is obvious and I do NOT believe that people on this forum now al
106 AGM100 : Why would we assume that Iraq would end up being anything other than another rouge state? IMO Iraq would form into another state dominated by the par
107 ME AVN FAN : - It possibly is the other way round. The departure of the US-occupationers might pave the way for a broader and working coalition, and take off the
108 Venus6971 : I think the best way now is to base US troops into Kurdistan, the Kurds will welcome them and it will also act as buffer from the Turks and the Irania
109 Dougloid : Yep, Alex, right once again. The Yids are behind it all, buddy.
110 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Have you spoken with Iraqi Kurds ? Hardly, as if you had ever done so you would know that what you report here is complete and absolute nonsense. - M
111 Cedars747 : No comment ! Alex!!![Edited 2007-04-22 11:21:16]
112 Baroque : Now the wall seems to be in trouble. I wonder what the ghost of Reagan is saying about first the Israeli wall and now the Baghdad wall - I seem to hea
113 Post contains images Cedars747 : Amazing Baroque ! how wright you are ! Regards! Alex!!!
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