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User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Ok, so here is the situation:

Hey Klaus,

I am wondering if you can answer me this question:

I have been a Windows user for all my life, and now I am buying a new laptop why should I go with the Mac. Also all
my games and most of my software is only compatible with Windows so that is also a problem. Can you tell me why I might want to buy a Mac Book Pro rather than a Windows Vista Laptop

Regards
Ag92

This was the response from Klaus

Quote:
I'm "just" a very satisfied customer like millions of others.

I have used Macs for quite a few years by now. And I have found them to be efficient, reliable, low-maintenance and even pleasant tools to use, leaving me more time and nerves for the actual task at hand.

I have used several Windows versions along the way as well (and still occasionally do), and none of them has ever raised any desire in me to make them my primary platform or even suffer them any longer than absolutely necessary.

I have been a Windows user for all my life, and now I am buying a new laptop why should I go with the Mac. Also all my games and most of my software is only compatible with Windows so that is also a problem. Can you tell me why I might want to buy a Mac Book Pro rather than a Windows Vista Laptop

First thing: You actually don't have to choose at all.

Every current Mac can run Windows Vista as well as or better than the majority of the other PCs out there. Highly ironic, but a fact.

If your priority is a cheap game machine, you'll probably be better off with some PCs specifically tailored to only that purpose and little else.

For almost everything else, a Mac will give you everything a PC will (which is probably in the foreground for you right now), plus all the advantages of the Mac (which will probably grow on you quicker than you may expect, as most people experience it).

Specifically, the advantages are:

- A Mac is a multi-machine. It runs pretty much every piece of software under the sun (MacOS, Windows, Linux, etc.).

- Excellent design, construction, system integration and manufacturing quality. I've yet to see anything comparable to my MacBook Pro. All MacBooks are very compact (and thin), but still well-featured and very practical. The Pro models primarily differ in their dedicated graphics processor for much better 3D performance, higher screen resolutions and an aluminium enclosure.

- Apple integrates the entire system (hardware, operating system and even some high-profile applications) and consequently provides a solution where everything "just works" out of the box. There is also no "call Dell" - "no, call Microsoft" support ping-pong. (Apple's support is also usually top notch.)

- At this time there is no known malware "in the wild". This may change at some point, but at this time some reasonable caution is sufficient to secure a Mac. No expensive and/or time-consuming and potentially destabilizing "protection" software required. As I said, this might change. But for more than five years since the first release of MacOS X there hasn't been a viable threat so far.

- Apple applies much higher standards to both their hardware than most PC vendors and to their software compared to Microsoft. As a consequence a Mac will usually waste much less of your time than you may be used to.

- Initially you will need a certain transition period, but the benefits start kicking in pretty quickly for most people, so most perceive it as relatively painless.

- Apple doesn't produce low-end machines. But if you try configuring a conventional PC which can only run Windows to comparable specifications of a given Mac, the Mac will usually not cost significantly more, especially when you're considering the flexibility and the included software package (no "crapware" on Macs - you'll get quite a number of actually useful full versions!). All Macs come standard with analog and digital video out (DVI), analog and digital audio in/out, gigabit ethernet, Bluetooth and fast Wifi - even up to the new a/b/g/n level in all but the smallest models (wireless is optional in the tower Mac Pro).

- If you should need it, you can use Windows either by dual-booting either into MacOS X or into Windows or by running Windows within a virtual machine, which basically means that it runs in parallel to MacOS X. Consequently, the currently best of several such solutions is named Parallels Desktop. It even allows you to freely mix Mac and Windows applications on the same screen. It can also use a Windows installation which you'd otherwise use for dual boot, so you can choose freely what better suits your needs at any given moment (boot natively into Windows to run 3D games, run Parallels (which at this point has no 3D support) if you're doing your taxes with your old Windows program).

Macs aren't perfect, but they suck a whole lot less than your usual PC.  Wink
If you've got an Apple store anywhere near you, take the opportunity and get a direct look.

If you have any further questions, you can keep asking me. You could also start a new open thread for the benefit of others in a similar situation. And/or you could go here:

http://www.apple.com/getamac/
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html

Now my next question
I have heard lots of cases of Macbooks blowing up, is that a common thing or is there only a 1 in a 1000 chance of that happening.
What about the warped scree?

I am asking this because my time is coming for me to leave home and go for boarding school. I don't want my laptop to blow up during those years

Regards,
Ag92

Hope you have survived this  Smile

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

Quoting Ag92 (Thread starter):
I have heard lots of cases of Macbooks blowing up, is that a common thing or is there only a 1 in a 1000 chance of that happening.

Well, some MacBooks were indeed affected recently by defective Sony batteries overheating and sometimes even catching fire. But the other manufacturers who used those same batteries had comparable problems. Hence the industry-wide recall campaign for these batteries from Apple, Dell, Sony and others.

But since Apple is a high-profile manufacturer with ostensibly higher quality standards, they are rightfully held to those higher standards and will get a lot more attention when they are involved. Mac users get increasingly accustomed to good quality and can become quite irritated when their elevated expectations should not be met.  cool 

Since those defective batteries have been recalled and are not sold any more, there is no plausible risk of corresponding failures with new machines. And that should again be true for the competition as well.

Quoting Ag92 (Thread starter):
What about the warped scree?

What are you referring to? Do you have a link?


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 1460 times:

As someone in your position, I bought an iMac last year and it was the best decision I made. Sure there are some short comings with some devices not being compatible with OSX, (my Canon multi function printer won't work for example) but over all, if you have any major issues you can always install Windows on the new macs

One issues I've had, which I'm not sure what causes it, is when I put my imac in sleep mode, sometimes it will turn itself back on straight away. You have to turn it off into sleep mode three or four times before it stays.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1452 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 2):
One issues I've had, which I'm not sure what causes it, is when I put my imac in sleep mode, sometimes it will turn itself back on straight away. You have to turn it off into sleep mode three or four times before it stays.

That sounds a bit as if some application or driver doesn't want to go to sleep. Do you have scheduled wakeup activated? Which USB or FireWire devices are connected?


User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Since those defective batteries have been recalled and are not sold any more, there is no plausible risk of corresponding failures with new machines.

Theoretically yes, and the problem has probably already been solved for anybody buying a new machine, but there have been recent battery troubles from Macs not affected by any of the recalls:

MacBook Pro 1
MacBook Pro 2
MacBook Pro 3
MacBook
1G iPod nano

If this teaches us anything, it's that it shouldn't take a recall for people to take battery safety seriously. This can happen to anyone, and if your machine starts acting up, just take it in to a professional immediately.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

Quoting Ag92 (Thread starter):

- Apple applies much higher standards to both their hardware than most PC vendors and to their software compared to Microsoft. As a consequence a Mac will usually waste much less of your time than you may be used to.

And this doesn't sound like an opinion?

The high-end Macs are decent machines, but I'll stick with something I know....


User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1430 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
What are you referring to? Do you have a link?

Here is what I meant
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zeromus...18663992/in/set-72057594091696085/

Regards
Ag92


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 2):
my Canon multi function printer won't work for example

I know this may sound silly, but have you been to the Canon site to look for a driver, or tried CUPS printing? I was in the same position at a friend's house last year--I didn't have the drivers for her new-fangled Canon, and within 5 minutes I was up and running and printing away.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 2):
As someone in your position, I bought an iMac last year and it was the best decision I made. Sure there are some short comings with some devices not being compatible with OSX, (my Canon multi function printer won't work for example) but over all, if you have any major issues you can always install Windows on the new macs

I had a printer problem as well when I switched, but I needed a more modern printer anyway, so I just bought a new one.

I've had my Imac for almost a year now, and I'm never going back to a Windows only machine.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3007 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1404 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 2):
One issues I've had, which I'm not sure what causes it, is when I put my imac in sleep mode, sometimes it will turn itself back on straight away. You have to turn it off into sleep mode three or four times before it stays.

That sounds a bit as if some application or driver doesn't want to go to sleep.

On my iMac this problem is caused by the Logitech Bluetooth mouse "waking up" by itself for some reason (maybe it thinks I'm moving it even if I'm not). This also wakes the iMac up.

Of course I can disable this by telling the iMac not to wake up on Bluetooth connections, but the consequence of this is that I need to wait 20 seconds for the mouse to recognize the iMac when it wakes up. Therefore I prefer to live with the other "problem"  Smile

To answer the original poster's question: Klaus' answer pretty much sums it up. MacBooks don't blow up more often than other brand hardware. It's just that when it happens, it's the end of the world, because one expects Mac to always work (that's a big part of their marketing and image, after all).



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 5):
And this doesn't sound like an opinion?

Beg your pardon? It's an experience which most users of Apple products confirm.

That makes it sort of relevant, even if people who have no experience with those products don't want to believe it (which is kind of odd, nevertheless).

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 5):
The high-end Macs are decent machines, but I'll stick with something I know....

Learning new things can broaden your mind. And put it at ease at the same time.

Don't limit yourself when there is no need for it!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):

Beg your pardon? It's an experience which most users of Apple products confirm.

Can you confirm you have spoken with the millions of apple users?



Viva la Vida
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 11):
Can you confirm you have spoken with the millions of apple users?

I'm a MacBook owner, and I confirm all of his statements.

I had been a Windows user all my life up until last July, and going Apple was the best decision I have made.

I know lots of others who feel the same way..


User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 12):

I wasn't asking what your opinion was about them. I was asking him to confirm that most mac users around the world enjoy their macs. Im not to say they do or don't but not all of my friends who have them have the dying passion for them stated here



Viva la Vida
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 13):

I wasn't asking what your opinion was about them. I was asking him to confirm that most mac users around the world enjoy their macs. Im not to say they do or don't but not all of my friends who have them have the dying passion for them stated here

I know you werent asking for my opinion specifically, I was just giving the point that lots of people feel that way.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 13):
I wasn't asking what your opinion was about them. I was asking him to confirm that most mac users around the world enjoy their macs. Im not to say they do or don't but not all of my friends who have them have the dying passion for them stated here

It's got nothing to do with "dying passion". It has to do with

a) knowing several platforms from experience and having chosen the one which from experience is by far the least painful one

and

b) trying to point out the differences to others who haven't had any experiences beyond Windows.

I'm a hardware and software developer, I've been in close contact with the field for over 25 years and I've seen many, many platforms come and go. With a bit of background you notice what it is that makes a platform effective and/or pleasant to use.

And unfortunately Microsoft have so far never got what it takes, merely delivering second-rate imitations which superficially look close enough but never deliver when the user needs it the most.

Apple have their own share of screwups and shortcomings, but they also have a keen sense for quality and the will to really push for it, even when it doesn't seem to guarantee an immediate monetary return. But users who feel respected rather than abused, who get the impression that their computer works for them and not the other way around and who experience that "even" on a computer things can actually "just work" will stick with you for the duration.

And they are apparently more prone to convincing others as well...


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1306 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 2):
One issues I've had, which I'm not sure what causes it, is when I put my imac in sleep mode, sometimes it will turn itself back on straight away. You have to turn it off into sleep mode three or four times before it stays.

Create a new user account on the same machine. Try it then. If it doesn't do it, its software, and can be fixed easily.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

...and Apple is further accelerating:

Apple Reports Second Quarter Results:

Quote:
Apple shipped 1,517,000 Macintosh® computers and 10,549,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 36 percent growth in Macs and 24 percent growth in iPods over the year-ago quarter.

“The Mac is clearly gaining market share, with sales growing 36 percent—more than three times the industry growth rate,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We’re very excited about the upcoming launch of iPhone in late June, and are also hard at work on some other amazing new products in our pipeline.”

“We are very pleased to report the most profitable March quarter in Apple’s history,” said Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO. “Looking ahead to the third fiscal quarter of 2007, we expect revenue of about $5.1 billion and earnings per diluted share of about $.66.”


User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

How is Apple doing in North America?

Regards
Ag92


User currently offlineWSOY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

By your own words, you do not develop in Windows, neither do you use Windows or help others in using it, but you scorn at Windows brilliantly.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Christ, an entire 1.5 million Macs sold in 3 months! I wonder how many PCs were sold in that time?

Edit: And indeed, in the three months to September 2006 HP shipped 9.65 million, 16.3% of the global market. That gives a total market of 59.2 million, or just 40 times as many PCs sold as Macs sold.

Edit again: And as these PC sales are before the release of Vista, the spike caused by Vista hasn't been taken into account, further tipping the balance in the favour of PCs.

Fact is the market speaks for itself. Consumers are the idiots Klaus makes them out to be.

[Edited 2007-04-26 02:41:34]

[Edited 2007-04-26 02:42:26]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23):
Christ, an entire 1.5 million Macs sold in 3 months! I wonder how many PCs were sold in that time?

Still significantly more, obviously - the newsworthy bit is the consistent and accelerating shift in market share away from Windows-only boxes.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23):
Fact is the market speaks for itself.

The market has a habit of mumbling unintelligibly most of the time, unfortunately!  cool 
Still, the trend is interesting.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23):
Consumers are the idiots Klaus makes them out to be.

You could have noticed that I never alleged anything like that (apart from your statement being somewhat garbled, apparently).

It's got nothing to do with stupidity on the part of the consumers. There is a clear lack of competence at Microsoft as far as their products are concerned, and a mostly uneasy acceptance by the market for a long time, for varous reasons.

But even plate tectonics have a habit of accumulating tension until a breaking point is reached. And there are numerous indications of that beginning to happen.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1235 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23):
And as these PC sales are before the release of Vista, the spike caused by Vista hasn't been taken into account, further tipping the balance in the favour of PCs.

Demand for Vista is generally qualified as 'lackluster', 'disappointing' and 'significantly below expectations' relative to the introductions of its predecessors. And that after an excruciatingly long delay and numerous feature downgrades, still falling short of even the current MacOS X version.

Mac adoption, on the other hand, significantly outpaces the overall market. So that's where the balance is tipping towards, actually, while the Windows-only vendors primarily cannibalize each other (Dell being the main victim du jour).


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
The market has a habit of mumbling unintelligibly most of the time, unfortunately!

Which is patronising to the millions of individuals and companies who continue to buy PCs by the millions, despite your thoughts. You mirror the current Apples adverts, where Mitchell and Webb patronise people who Apple seem to think are too stupid to download software to make music, movies and websites and always trip over their laptop's power supply.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
It's got nothing to do with stupidity on the part of the consumers. There is a clear lack of competence at Microsoft as far as their products are concerned, and a mostly uneasy acceptance by the market for a long time, for varous reasons.

I don't think there's been an uneasy acceptance at all. Are you suggesting that the market doesn't like Microsoft and their 'incompetence' but accepts it anyway despite a fantastic Mac being available?!

It's not even if Macs are boutique products any more - they're available in every Comet and Currys and PC World. As you point out, Macs can run nearly all software, and Vista. Yet the sale of Macs still lags significantly behind PCs.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Demand for Vista is generally qualified as 'lackluster', 'disappointing' and 'significantly below expectations' relative to the introductions of its predecessors. And that after an excruciatingly long delay and numerous feature downgrades, still falling short of even the current MacOS X version.

That's not my point. My point, which you ignored, was that my stats showing the complete lack of Mac sales compared to PC sales ignored the spike associated with Vista, which makes the picture look even worse for Apple.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Mac adoption, on the other hand, significantly outpaces the overall market.

That's very easy to do when you have just 2.5% of the market!


User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

Im going downtown this weekend and paying a special visit to the "Apple" store...can't wait to spend $2,000 on this- * 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 1440 x 900 pixels
* 1GB memory
* 120GB hard drive1
* 6x double-layer SuperDrive
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB SDRAM

Not



Viva la Vida
25 Post contains images Klaus : What are you on about? I was talking about the difficulty to read "the market" clearly, as the incessant failure of the vast majority of "analysts" t
26 Post contains links WSOY : Where do you get your numbers from, by the way? I have this from AppleInsider : The computer maker [Apple] reported 19 million active users of Mac OS
27 Post contains links Tmatt95 : Here is a quote from Reuters: " The world's biggest software maker said the pace of Vista adoption is at more than TWICE THE RATE of its predecessor,
28 Klaus : With the entire market having grown substantially since then, anything less would have stamped it an instant failure. Interesting is, however, that M
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