RichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1557 times:
My question is what happened with the replacement bridge? Arnie stopped it a couple of years ago becouse he thought the design was too expensive. Has work restarted yet and when are they supposed to have the new bridge up?
Anybody with recent pics of the new bridge or the damage to the old, please post them.
JeffSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 820 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1495 times:
Your title is misleading because the Bay Bridge wasn't damaged by last night's accident, it's the Interstate road connectors between I-880 and I-580 that were damaged. The bridge is a mile or so west of the scene of the accident:
Alessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1323 times:
Why such dangerous goods allowed on public roads? Wouldn´t it be better to transport it by rail?
Is it only allowed to transport at night, risk for accidents are higher during night though?
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10554 posts, RR: 53 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1277 times:
When I lived out in the Bay Area, I was always amazed by the small number of ways into and out of the San Francisco peninsula. SF really is isolated, and now it is even moreso because the powers that be and the residents won't build another bridge or tunnel across the bay. I think there should be at *least* two more bridges or tunnels. But, even with this mishap, I doubt that will ever happen.
There are other cities with all their eggs in one basket like this - maybe they'll see this as a wake up call too. Can you imagine if this had happened in the Big Dig?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1268 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 9): When I lived out in the Bay Area, I was always amazed by the small number of ways into and out of the San Francisco peninsula. SF really is isolated, and now it is even moreso because the powers that be and the residents won't build another bridge or tunnel across the bay. I think there should be at *least* two more bridges or tunnels. But, even with this mishap, I doubt that will ever happen.
There was a 'south bridge' that was proposed way back in the 1950s that was supposed link Cesar Chavez Bl. the Oakland Airport/Hagenberger bl.
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1262 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 10): There was a 'south bridge' that was proposed way back in the 1950s that was supposed link Cesar Chavez Bl. the Oakland Airport/Hagenberger bl.
Completely off topic but why doesn't the 101 continue through town as an expressway instead of the city street it becomes when it exits from the Golden Gate? That seems to be the biggest bottleneck in that town.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10554 posts, RR: 53 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1260 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 10): There was a 'south bridge' that was proposed way back in the 1950s that was supposed link Cesar Chavez Bl. the Oakland Airport/Hagenberger bl.
Cancelled along with a whole bunch of other projects that would have eased congestion in the city.
We have a similar problem here in Northern Virginia, but the result for us is just traffic. Our bridges are all duplicated but man would it be nice if we had a few more! (That will never happen as long as National Airport is around though.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1255 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 11): Completely off topic but why doesn't the 101 continue through town as an expressway instead of the city street it becomes when it exits from the Golden Gate? That seems to be the biggest bottleneck in that town.
Because that would mean cutting through some of the most expensive real estate in the world. The rich people in Laurel Heights, Pacific Heights and Marina districts would not go for it.
It's the RICH, not the hippies that have killed linking the freeways.
Quoting D L X (Reply 12): We have a similar problem here in Northern Virginia, but the result for us is just traffic.
Didn't the voters vote down a measly 1 cent tax to upgrade the highways in northern Virginia to accommodate the existing population?
I never forget spending almost an hour at a traffic signal in McLean. All I wa trying to do was drive across the highway from my hotel to return my rental car. I was amazed by the huge developments (malls and condos) supported by two lane country roads.
The main reason why San Fracnsico doesn't have as many freeways is because we don't want to look like Los Angeles or Houston.
767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1255 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): The rich people in Laurel Heights, Pacific Heights and Marina districts would not go for it.
It's the RICH, not the hippies that have killed linking the freeways.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): The main reason why San Fracnsico doesn't have as many freeways is because we don't want to look like Los Angeles or Houston.
So in one quote you act as if the rich are just being selfish to not "allow" freeways, and then in the other quote you act like the no freeways thing is by design and a superior thing.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1251 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 12): Cancelled along with a whole bunch of other projects that would have eased congestion in the city.
Looking at the map Larry posted and then look at a current map of San Francisco.... not even half of those freeway projects were even completed.
Of course we have nobody but ourselves to blame for this. Many of the projects that went through were done in such a manner that they had serious negative impacts on the communities that they bisected. As a result the later projects that were supposed to break ground in the 60s and 70s got caught up in the anti-freeway movement that was brewing.
Frankly a lot of that was pretty short-sighted, as projects that did eventually get built were done to much higher standards and have less impact on the surrounding areas. Same thing goes for mass transit projects that should have been built.
Anyways it looks like a mess for SF Bay commuters for the foreseeable future. Maybe there is potential in running a cross bay ferry service.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1243 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): It's the RICH, not the hippies that have killed linking the freeways.
Dumbasses! Thanks for the answer.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): I was amazed by the huge developments (malls and condos) supported by two lane country roads.
Come to Atlanta and see non-planning in action! My wife wants us to move out to west Cobb County and I'll have nothing to do with it. Our money would go a lot farther with houses out there but all roads funnel down to a 2 lane road through the Kennesaw National Battlefield or you have to go far north or far south to get out to the Interstates. Stupid ass planning is the MO for the developers and county governments here it seems.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80 Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
DesertJets:
Take a drive through some of these areas. I am glad that most were not build. Many beautiful and picturesque communities would have been leveled by a concrete freeway with lots of traffic.
I do wish the Embarcadero freeway and Central freeways were rebuild. Tearing those down after the 1989 earthquake was a bad idea.
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14): So in one quote you act as if the rich are just being selfish
Stop assuming that I am accusing the rich as being selfish. I was just pointing out who had the power to stop the freeway from being build. Honestly, I am glad they put up the effort.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 11):
Completely off topic but why doesn't the 101 continue through town as an expressway instead of the city street it becomes when it exits from the Golden Gate? That seems to be the biggest bottleneck in that town.
Because that would mean cutting through some of the most expensive real estate in the world. The rich people in Laurel Heights, Pacific Heights and Marina districts would not go for it.
It's the RICH, not the hippies that have killed linking the freeways.
Don't forget the idiots in Marin County who killed the plan to run a BART line to their fair county.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): Quoting D L X (Reply 12):
We have a similar problem here in Northern Virginia, but the result for us is just traffic.
Didn't the voters vote down a measly 1 cent tax to upgrade the highways in northern Virginia to accommodate the existing population?
I never forget spending almost an hour at a traffic signal in McLean. All I wa trying to do was drive across the highway from my hotel to return my rental car. I was amazed by the huge developments (malls and condos) supported by two lane country roads.
the reason that particular tax vote failed was because we had no assurance that the revenue would be kept in northern virginia, and properly utilized.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1231 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18): Don't forget the idiots in Marin County who killed the plan to run a BART line to their fair county.
Don't even get me started on that!
That was a dumb move on Marin county's part. In the last election cycle, they voted to have there own light rail system put in place to connect with the ferry boats and Golden Gate bus terminal.
Marin county thought that BART would bring down there property values but instead, BART has raised property values. People in Lafayette and Orinda certainly dont have a problem with BART.
767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1209 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 17): Stop assuming that I am accusing the rich as being selfish. I was just pointing out who had the power to stop the freeway from being build. Honestly, I am glad they put up the effort.
Then why not just say "people in such and such areas would not go for it, thankfully." Instead of things like saying "the RICH" in all caps.
Personally I don't like freeways either, and I am far from RICH!
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10554 posts, RR: 53 Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1190 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): Didn't the voters vote down a measly 1 cent tax to upgrade the highways in northern Virginia to accommodate the existing population?
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18): the reason that particular tax vote failed was because we had no assurance that the revenue would be kept in northern virginia, and properly utilized.
Right. Northern Virginia is a small area that houses over a quarter of Virginia's entire population, yet it has considerably worse infrastructure for its needs than other, smaller population centers of Hampton Roads, Richmond Area and even Roanoke. There is always a fear that "NOVA" is getting taxed so as to benefit the rest of the Commonwealth, while clearly not getting near its fair share. The last thing that Northern Virginians want is to pay a special tax that no one else in the state has to pay, and then have that money diverted away from us.
CMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 984 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1190 times:
You mean to tell me that concrete can collapse and fail if it sits under burning fuel???? Several people on this site told me that it just couldn't happen. It's all Bush's fault.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1171 times:
Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 22): You mean to tell me that concrete can collapse and fail if it sits under burning fuel???? Several people on this site told me that it just couldn't happen. It's all Bush's fault
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1153 times:
To put a visual perspective on things, these are the parts of San Francisco that would be leveled to build freeways.
Granted this is a dated photo but still looks the same today.
767Lover:
I guess I need to walk on eggshells when talking about the rich.
I only spelled it in caps because it's assumed that hippies are calling the shots with important decisions out here when in reality, that is clearly not the case.
Bring back the Concorde
25 767Lover: Nah, no need to walk on eggshells, but you have spoken in disdain for the rich previously and it sounded like you were doing it again. I understand w
26 Cfalk: The CIA and GW Bush are behind the freeway collapse! Whoever heard of steel being melted by fire? Explosives were used! - Rosie O'Donnell
27 Superfly: LOL! They're up in Marin county now! Not all rich are bad. You are correct that many rich do give wonderful contributions to help those in need as we
28 RJdxer: Houston could use a few more freeways since they are so against building a rail system. Don't forget about that steel! Maybe, maybe not, there are ot
29 AeroWesty: The plans for BART go back into the 1950s. It wasn't the cities who had control over where it went, it was the counties. BART had to go to Concord, a
30 N231YE: Concrete contains rebar, and depending on how CA designs their bridges (prefab or not), may contain a steel substructure (I-Beams, Cross beams, rocke
31 Superfly: I was refering to the proposal to link the 101 central freeway to the 101 Golden Gate Bridge.
33 DAL767400ER: Well, you wouldn't have to level so much for the US-101 connection, seeing as how there are still a few empty areas that have been cleared for the fr
34 AndesSMF: Traffic reports are pretty normal sounding right now. There are no reports of massive backups. (BTW, the Capitol Corridor from SMF to OAK is the 3rd b
35 AeroWesty: That's because that section is used to leave The City, not enter it. Anyone living in the Bay Area around the time of the Caldecott fire will know th
36 Confuscius: Traffic reports are pretty normal sounding right now. There are no reports of massive backups. Public transport is free in the bay area today.
39 Superfly: DAL767400ER: As I mentioned in #17, it was dumb to tear down existing freeways after the 1989 earthquake. The area you indicated was where the Central
40 AeroWesty: I don't think it was dumb at all. The whole redevelopment of the Ferry Bldg. area wouldn't have come about without ripping down the Embarcadero. Ther
41 Galapagapop: This exact same thing happened in Bridgeport CT in 2003 on I-95, when an oil tanker hit the wall and caught fire. It was also on a bridged part as wel
42 CMHSRQ: I know, I was just jabbing at all the 9-11 morons.
43 Halls120: You mean Herb Caen, voice of the poor and downtrodden in San Francisco? Mouthpiece/Confidante of Mayor for Life Willie Brown? Wilkes Bashford's buddy
44 Superfly: It made it easier for guys in the East Bay to get to the strip clubs on Broadway. I don't see the logic in dumping traffic down on to the street leve
46 AeroWesty: Of course he was. But remember, Caen had an "old San Francisco" ethic that was independent of his cronies. He was railing against any blasphemy that
47 AeroWesty: Okay, there were two exits off the Embarcadero. One dropped you off into the Embarcadero Center area, the other ended at Broadway and Battery (IIRC,
48 Superfly: I was also referring to the spill off on to Oak & Fell. This thread is starting to feel like a heated discussion while riding MUNI or one of those pe
49 AeroWesty: Yeah, there's some of that that really does need rebuilding, but you know, none of what's missing goes through especially toney neighborhoods.
50 D L X: That's a little bit ganda, Supe. Those steep areas would most likely have been traversed by tunnels, and the area along the waterfront you showed act
51 AeroWesty: BART was mainly a response to the growth of the East Bay. It was planned in the era of when the lower deck of the Bridge carried rail traffic (the AC
52 Superfly: D L X: No it's not. The area I showed is the Fisherman's Wharf and the freeway never went that far, however, it was proposed. I am one of the few peop
53 DeltaDC9: To be fair, there are a lot of rich hippies, they are in their 50s and 60s now. It was inevetable that some hippies would get hip to capitalism. Comb
54 Superfly: The people that were against connecting the two segments of 101 put up there fight waaaaaaaay back in the 1950s before there was a such thing as a hi
55 DeltaGator: It's not so much that they sold out but rather bought in.
56 N1120A: So what? They absolutely had a point with San Francisco, which was already built when they decided to try and shoe horn freeways in. It is not like L
57 DeltaDC9: I work with a former Berkley hippie that also went to Brown. He ended up writing the documentation for IBMs consumer computer products after graduati
58 S12PPL: Hey all. I just got back from the bay area, and was there when the collapse occured. It really was a mess yesterday..But only because not everyone had
59 Superfly: N1120A: I was not complaing about the rich standing in the way of constructing the freeways. I agree with all of your points except with the Embarcade
60 N1120A: I know that, I was fleshing it all out And I don't get why you wish that was still there. First, years of research involving I-880 as well as the soo
61 AndesSMF: As a comparison, the city of SMF is twice the size in area. From a cursory read, it was still a battle after 1989 whether to build it or tear it down
62 Superfly: N1120A: The Embarcadero freeway ain't coming back and I am well aware of the advantages/disadvantages of it being replaced.
63 D L X: But those cities have freeways to keep a lot of traffic off the surface streets. They also have a MUCH better subway system. San Francisco's BART sys
64 AeroWesty: Okay, an honest question. Who would use a 101 connector through SF? If you're coming up from the Peninsula, you can easily take the 280, cut through
65 Halls120: Only because of term limits. I'm glad they tore down the embarcadero freeway. It should have never been built in the first place. Only those of us wh
66 AeroWesty: LOL!! You've done that too, eh? I lurv the San Rafael. Admittedly, it's been a few years since I've driven that route, which is why I was asking abou
67 Superfly: AeroWesty: I am glad that the 101 doesn't connect at both ends. My guess would be that it would make it more convienient for those in Marin and Sonoma
68 D L X: DC is only 66 square miles, and it still hasn't filled out. (Although, it would admittedly be hard to place a freeway through town. Hell, it's hard t
69 Superfly: No it wouldn't have. San Francsico was just as developed in 1950 as today. The last patch of open space minus Golden Gate Park was build in the 1930s
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