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Proposed High-speed Rail Lines In Arg., Brazil  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1808 times:

Alstom, French train-maker that broke the world conventional track train speed a few weeks back, is looking into bidding for high-speed "bullet trains" in South America. The main routes under study are Sao Paulo-Rio, in Brazil, and Buenos Aires-Cordoba-Rosario, in Argentina.

I am wondering what our Argentine friends have to say about this. What is the view in Argentina, and what do you think will happen?

I have also found out about a proposed bullet train in Mexico connecting Mexico City to Guadalajara. Any info on that?

In Brazil, there's plenty of "I'll believe it when I see it" going around. It appears this time there is more substance to it - the money is coming from private investors. Some studies have been carried out, and it seems that within 90 days or so there will be a licitation process. Who knows how long that will last, but the SP-Rio train is expected to cost about U$9 billion.

Here is some data (estimation):

Route length: 403km
Total route tunnel length: 133km (that's a third of the way underground)
Total route bridges length: 105km
Travel time: 85 minutes
Train [commercial] speed: 285km/h
Train capacity: 855 pax
Train frequency: 1 every 10-15 minutes
Projected fare each way: U$60.00

(I assume these are max numbers. almost 1000 pax every 15 minutes seems a bit much for today)

Click here for the proposed route. Not very visible on the map but it stops in SJK as well. The end-point stations in both Rio and SP would be underground and connect to the subway system of each city.

For more information click url=http://www.italplan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=51&lang=en]here[/url].

I think this is one of the best solution for crowded SP airports.

I can only hope this happens! I love trains as well!


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4276 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

This project (the Argentine high speed rail system, which will be called TAVE), is not new, it's been going on for the last two years. I am aware the Brazilian proposed trains have just emerged. And you are absolutely correct, the same attitude is being taken here, 'seeing is believing'. However, it seems the construction is about to start soon.

Now, I think they will not be "bullet" trains I believe, but high speed trains. However, perhaps the MDP-LAP-BUE-ROS urban corridor out in the eastern belt might be bullet trains. The ROS-COR and the future ROS-SFE will deffinately be only high speed in the beginning at least, from what I have been reading, since it will not be "double rails" for each way, apparently required in bullet train tracks.

Out in western Argentina where I live, the high speed rail system will not reach at least in the near future, so you don't hear that much about it, the big story is the Mendoza-Tunuyan and Mendoza-San Luis transprovincial expressways which are finally being finished.

That said, the BUE-MDZ train service is restart sometime soon, it will be regular train with optimized track. There is a future proposed BUE-Bariloche high speed line, but that seems far fetched. A high speed train through Patagonia would be a world wonder...

I have high hopes at least the major high speed routes will be built, and also many of the conventional train services are comming back. It's all part of the Bicentennial Drive to celebrate the 200 years of "the first nation of the southern hemisphere". It's also why many airports are being renovated or new ones being built like at COR, ROS, MDP, etc, and basically why so many cities in Argentina have so much urban renewal and construction, besides the strong economy.

All that said, and I personally would settle right now for a good old fashioned RADAR at EZE...  gnasher 



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4276 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Here is a render:




My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

Thanks for the info and the nice pic, Derico. I sure hope all this turns into reality.

There have also been proposals to link SP to CPQ, and some recent articles mentioned in the future the possibility to extend services south to CWB and north to PLU (nothing serious thus far though). But as long as SP-Rio gets built, I won't ask for anything else!  Smile

Quoting Derico (Reply 1):
A high speed train through Patagonia would be a world wonder...

That would be amazing. It would attract lots of tourists from everywhere, but the costs of building it in a tough geographical region where Bariloche is located might prove too much.

All that said, is there a regular train line going into Bariloche?

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):

I'm not that familiar with train manufacturers, but the French surely built the best looking trains around!  Smile



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4276 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
All that said, is there a regular train line going into Bariloche?

Nope, but it is to be brought back. It really is a technicality of a new railbridge over the Rio Negro river (I think).

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
But as long as SP-Rio gets built, I won't ask for anything else!

I don't see why such a train would not be extremely profitable, far more than a ROS-COR line to be honest! And the terrain is a bit more challenging than the prairies of central Argentina.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

would this high speed in any way compete with the Rio-Sao Paulo Shuttle services of Varig, TAM or Gol? I have a feeling if this works out, air service between the two cities can see a decrease in people flying.


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 4):
And the terrain is a bit more challenging than the prairies of central Argentina.

That's part of the reason the costs are so high - lots of bridges and tunnels. They haven't settled with how many yet, so the cost is just an estimation.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
would this high speed in any way compete with the Rio-Sao Paulo Shuttle services of Varig, TAM or Gol? I have a feeling if this works out, air service between the two cities can see a decrease in people flying.

Oh most certainly. Think about all the hassles and wasted time when you go through airports. And then there are weather delays and whatnot. This is likely going to cut down travel time by a good 50%, and probably cost you about the same or maybe even less (time=money).

It would be a welcome decongestion of the Sao Paulo airports. It would take 7 years to build it, though. And IMO at best another 2-3 years before they give it the go ahead (assuming enough investors are found by then). That means we might see something running in 2017.

Quoting Derico (Reply 4):
I don't see why such a train would not be extremely profitable

I would agree completely. It's a big up-front investment though, but then it shouldn't be a problem.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2701 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
would this high speed in any way compete with the Rio-Sao Paulo Shuttle services of Varig, TAM or Gol? I have a feeling if this works out, air service between the two cities can see a decrease in people flying.

Oh most certainly. Think about all the hassles and wasted time when you go through airports. And then there are weather delays and whatnot. This is likely going to cut down travel time by a good 50%, and probably cost you about the same or maybe even less (time=money).

If you take the European experience, particularly in France, TGV lines have completely eliminated air travel between some city pairs and reduced it by more than 50% between others. Brussels- Paris no longer flown by AF, London - Paris majority market share is Eurostar, Paris - Marsailles (900km in 3hrs!) flying is the exception, next will be Paris - Strasbourg next month, Paris Amsterdam, ..... you get the ideal.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
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