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Hezbollah Comes To The West  
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2867 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17874369/

"CIUDAD DEL ESTE, Paraguay - The Iranian-backed Hezbollah militia has taken root in South America, fostering a well-financed force of Islamist radicals boiling with hatred for the United States and ready to die to prove it, according to militia members, U.S. officials and police agencies across the continent."

Well, this may be another reason to keep the idea of attacking Iran on the back burner. It's becoming more an more dangerous.

This quote scares me quite frankly..

“If he attacks Iran, in two minutes Bush is dead,” Meri said. “We are Muslims. I am Hezbollah. We are Muslims, and we will defend our countries at any time they are attacked.”

What are your thoughts?


LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

But, but, but... The hezzies are just a political party in Lebanon. They aren't funded/supported/trained by Iran and surely aren't a terrorist group...

Or at least that's what we were told during their little war with Israel.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Thread starter):
Well, this may be another reason to keep the idea of attacking Iran on the back burner. It's becoming more an more dangerous.

Cower in fear .. what choice do we have. Unfortunately it is happening .. their is no reason why the anti American forces is South America would not welcome the Islamists with open arms.

If someone asked you a logical question like .. do you believe Hugo would let Hezbollah train in his country ? How could you not say Yes ?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 2):
Cower in fear .. what choice do we have.

I hope you don't get shot in the back.

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 3):
I hope you don't get shot in the back.

Just being sarcastic Baylor... my idea is certainly not to cower in fear . Quite the opposite ... but probably very politically incorrect as well.

But really what can we do ? Hezbollah could in fact launch attacks against US interests from south America and we will be pretty much powerless to stop it. Especially in light of the Lebanon fiasco ,, could Venezuela become another Lebanon? I know it is far out their , but Hezbollah has shown that the model of operating from a "host "country is effective. Look at the chaos it has created in Israel , truly a scary situation IMO.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

It has been well documented that Hezbollah has sleeper cells in the West that could cause havoc here. If it comes to war with Iran, we might just see that.

User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

Probably flew on Iran service to CCS



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

That this war is only started. We are in the Sitzkrieg like in Early 1940, when after a brief bit of action most people sat down, enjoyed the Spring and hoped the Nazis would go away.

It might take 10 more years for most of you to realize this, but we are on the doorstep of what will possibly be the bloodiest war in History.


User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2867 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):

It might take 10 more years for most of you to realize this, but we are on the doorstep of what will possibly be the bloodiest war in History.

I realize something is bound to happen, but I really hope your thought is wrong.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

First order of business would be to secure our border... right?

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

to quote out of the article : """ From its Western base in a remote region divided by the borders of Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina known as the Tri-border, or the Triple Frontier """ the question comes up why the three countries do NOT eradicate such a "base" ? Hizbullah hardly has the population of that area behind it.
-
another aspect is that while Hizbullah in Lebanon, as much as it is backed by Iran, is NOT having Iran as a priority, while this "Latino-Hizbullah" quite obviously DOES have Iran as its focus.
-
to quote further out of the article : "" Arab residents whose families immigrated mainly from Lebanon in two waves, after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and after the 1985 Lebanese civil war "" . -- The 1948 reference makes it clear that it is Palestinians referred to here. But Palestinians are NOT Shi'ite and so extremely unlikely to join Hizbullah. Further on, the number of Arab immigrants is given as 25'000. Even with a high share, the fundamentalists will hardly have more than 5000 followers, and out of them hardly more than may be 1000 will be ready to join the radicals.
-
It however is difficult to come to a real conclusion, as the information is insufficient.
-

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
are just a political party in Lebanon

in Lebanon, it primarily is a political party, but with a violent wing. While it over in Paraguay/Brazil/Argentina apparently just is a kind of paramilitary organisation. At least according to the article.
-

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
in Early 1940

in early 1940, the USA was at peace with Germany and at peace with Japan. And again the question: How long will it take until the three countries concerned will move ahead and re-establish control in that region ?
-


User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 9):
First order of business would be to secure our border... right?

Not to anyone with the title of Senator, Congressman, or President.

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4295 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 10):
the question comes up why the three countries do NOT eradicate such a "base" ? Hizbullah hardly has the population of that area behind it.

The reason is because there is no such base in the Argentine side. There are no terrorist activities anywhere in northern Argentina.

To enter Argentina EVERYONE must go through customs, show passports, and be searched. Border authorities in Brazil coming from Argentina are a bit more relaxed and many times do not even ask for passports. Paraguay of course is relatively lawless. The big lebanese populations are located in Paraguay and to a lesser degree on the Brazilian side.
In fact, as the article shows, that area has proven more of a national security risk to Argentina than to the United States.

Muslim, Jewish, Christian relations are actually excellent in Argentina, I would dare to say actually that they are the best of any country in this world today. Jews tour Latin America's largest mosque, Christians eat at Kosher McDonalds, and Muslim radicalization (there are 1 million muslims), is virtually non-existant still. We want to keep it this way, and bring along the atheists too!  Smile



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
Paraguay of course is relatively lawless. The big lebanese populations are located in Paraguay

interesting, leading to 3 questions :
- why is Paraguay "relatively lawless" ?
- is it then basically a problem about Paraguay ?
- can this problem damage tourism to the Iguacu waterfalls ?


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3764 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Or at least that's what we were told during their little war with Israel.

I wasn't told that.  Confused

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1996 times:

Nothing much new, other than citing a few names.

Since 9/11, the area has seen much investment from a security point of view in part of the Brazilian government. I haven't heard that much about it, but read that there is money/new equipment/people working in the area.

Paraguay, unfortunately, is known for knock-off products (believed/known to fund terrorism in the middle east) and illegal smuggling. Made in Paraguay is synonym for fake/knock-off products, often jokingly stated but most of the time its not far from the truth.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
- is it then basically a problem about Paraguay ?

The only problem with Paraguay (in regards to this issue) is that they don't have the funds to enforce laws. That can be applied to others in the region as well, to varying degrees.

The problem is a combination of things:

- It's a Tri-border - inherently easy to hide criminals and criminal activity of any kind.
- Infiltration of terrorist from abroad inciting extremist views and taking part in the local fertile criminal activity for fund-raising.
- With an established large community in the region, it only facilitates life for the terrorists.
- All you need is one extremist Mullah to sway [some of] his followers opinion.

The lack of law enforcement and corruption in the region is more of a serious aggravating factor than a cause.

It's not something that isn't known and that nothing is being done about. It is also a major issue in Brazilian-USA relations (which itself is quite good) due to losses of billions of dollars in copyright infringement, as well as tax revenue for Brasilia. Not to mention it makes the police look pathetic in the publics eyes. . .



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

This is a disaster waiting to happen. A group of militant terrorists are building up force on this side of the Atlantic Ocean. Meaning the odds of our country getting struck is greater, and our politicians aren't willing to deal with illegal immigration.

And additionally, should they not choose to attack us, Bush could stage a terror attack and would have plenty of people to blame in South America.

Andrea Kent


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3865 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

This doesn't surprise me, groups like the IRA operated training camps in South America for many years - both for themselves and for indigenous groups with their own agendas.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8047 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

What ridiculous, alarmist rubbish. Hezbollah exist purely to defend Lebanon since the Lebanese national gov't has never been up to the job. That's it. I'm sure they would love to see the end of Israel (like every other man, woman and child from Morocco to Pakistan) but it is not their intention to instigate such a thing. Also, they have always said categorically that they do not target the USA. Of course, if the US attacks Iran, that will change.

It shows how lacking we are in the west that we scare at the mention of a small Lebanese party / national resistance, and how keen we are to demonise all Muslims so we can take what we want from them with a clear conscience (eg oil in Iraq, land in Palestine, water in Lebanon, etc etc). Western, and specifically US, reaction to Hezbollah is like Malaysians ducking under the table in fear at the mention of the IRA. Come on, get a life.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
What ridiculous, alarmist rubbish. Hezbollah exist purely to defend Lebanon since the Lebanese national gov't has never been up to the job. That's it. I'm sure they would love to see the end of Israel (like every other man, woman and child from Morocco to Pakistan) but it is not their intention to instigate such a thing. Also, they have always said categorically that they do not target the USA. Of course, if the US attacks Iran, that will change.

It shows how lacking we are in the west that we scare at the mention of a small Lebanese party / national resistance, and how keen we are to demonise all Muslims so we can take what we want from them with a clear conscience (eg oil in Iraq, land in Palestine, water in Lebanon, etc etc). Western, and specifically US, reaction to Hezbollah is like Malaysians ducking under the table in fear at the mention of the IRA. Come on, get a life.

Cedarjet ! you are a hero..........wellcome to my RU...............I never expected a so accurate response to this ridiculous thread !
By the way ciudad del Este is mainly full of Koreans and Chinese way more than Arabs !


Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
The only problem with Paraguay (in regards to this issue) is that they don't have the funds to enforce laws. That can be applied to others in the region as well, to varying degrees.

The problem is a combination of things:

- It's a Tri-border - inherently easy to hide criminals and criminal activity of any kind.
- Infiltration of terrorist from abroad inciting extremist views and taking part in the local fertile criminal activity for fund-raising.
- With an established large community in the region, it only facilitates life for the terrorists.
- All you need is one extremist Mullah to sway [some of] his followers opinion.

-
THIS is a very serious double-problem. The emergence of such organisations in Paraguay and Brazil might create dangers for these two countries before long. AND at worst might even provoke an outside intervention, started to "enforce law and order" .
-


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
I'm sure they would love to see the end of Israel (like every other man, woman and child from Morocco to Pakistan)

You included, obviously.  Yeah sure

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
small Lebanese party / national resistance

Last time I checked they were terrorist organization.


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1800 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Last time I checked they were terrorist organization.

Here we go again
 duck 



rolf
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
zbollah exist purely to defend Lebanon since the Lebanese national gov't has never been up to the job.

Defend Lebanon against what? The Israeli occupation ended in 2000. They are a proxy of Syria and Iran and nothing more. They do not seek to defend Lebanon; they do Syria and Iran's bidding. As usual, the innocent Lebanese people suffer.


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 11):
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 9):
First order of business would be to secure our border... right?

Not to anyone with the title of Senator, Congressman, or President.

 checkmark . Time to give power to the states, get a 3rd party guy in there, take names/kick butts and watch the media darling candidates all suck asphalt and get a real candidate in there.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
Hezbollah exist purely to defend Lebanon

Maybe on paper, but no so much in reality. They'll attack the US - without provocation - at the first opportunity they have. Don't mistake their hateful attitude as a passive one.

-R


25 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Hmm. Maybe someone needs to get a clue. They have attacked and killed Americans in a manner that in no way had anything to do with the "national resi
26 MDorBust : These two statements were only one sentence apart, but are completely irreconcilable. Explain this to me: Exist only to defend LEBANON, but would take
27 TZ757300 : I think this is a conspiracy, Andrea, you may have to block the FBI on this one.
28 Cedarjet : Look, this is exactly what I'm talking about. What a bunch of babies! Almost everything on this list is not terrorism, but legitimate military action.
29 Miamiair : Just keep your head in the sand. "Some" money? Try most. Explain advanced weapons that were of Iranian manufacture used in the last conflict?
30 MDorBust : Are you for real? You consider the hijacking of a civilian airliner to be a legitimate tactic in the conduct of war? How much of a terrorist apologis
31 ORFflyer : Almost everything on that list IS/WAS a terriost act. If you think for a minute these were justified military actions, you're crazy. How can you tell
32 MDorBust : On second thought.. his logic is so warped that you can't even debate with him anymore. Consider this. He just justified a long string of terrorist a
33 Miamiair : He is the guy that gives aid and comfort to these "people." He can be an enabler of such terrorist operations. Big Brother should keep an eye out for
34 ME AVN FAN : you have to check BOTH sides. IRA and ETA, just to give two examples, had a violent (terrorist) wing and a legal party wing. Hizbullah, quite in cont
35 Miamiair : And here's the other apologist... No matter which way you look at it, civilian populations are not targets, unless you want the favor returned.
36 ORFflyer : It's not logic, it's rhetoric.
37 ME AVN FAN : to combine what we have about Hizbullah : - being a ultra-conservative, anti-freedom, reactionary, fundamentalist, restrictive, clericalist party - ca
38 Post contains images Miamiair : The cure: Flush them down the crapper or shoot them, buzzards have to eat too.[Edited 2007-05-15 17:06:55]
39 ME AVN FAN : civilians and the general economy and infrastructure inevitable become targets in case of whatever kind of violent conflict. In case of Hizbullah, th
40 Cedarjet : He was a soldier! Not a civilian! The rest of the passengers and crew were released unharmed. Once again, I fail to see how hitting the barracks of a
41 Post contains images MDorBust : Was he in the conduct of military operations? What? No, oh... You seem to forget the whole kidnapping and holding hostages for several weeks bit. Whi
42 ME AVN FAN : but they had arrived in Beirut as Peacekeepers, in order to end the horrible civil war which had been raging since 1975 and then continued for severa
43 Dtwclipper : Really...they beat the crap out of the first officer as well as another passenger on board. The rest were kept in a hot tin can with little food and
44 Post contains links Cairo : Both sides seem to have the same philosophy, as shown here and here. When both sides claim they are fighting a war; and the side which claims to repr
45 Cedarjet : Round three! No but still, he was carrying military ID, and the Navy was his employer. He was not a civilian. No, I'm sure it was terrifying and uncom
46 Blackbird : Cedarjet, Even if it is alarmist... should our government, lead by crazy madmen like Cheney and Bush, decide to stage a terror attack, they'd be able
47 Dtwclipper : Don't you even dare to lecture me about warped priorities....you are justifying terrorism. You apologists for these uneducated lowlife scumbags don't
48 MDorBust : That is not what you said. It's not even close to what you said. Again, blatant contradictions in your posts. So, you're just a stinking liar. That's
49 Cedarjet : Well I can't answer this latest round, you guys are just twisting my words or referring to assumptions that are way off base. I can sum it my position
50 Dtwclipper : I'm sorry, last time I checked TWA was a US corporation, and hence a US target. That was me...thanks. And you stitting comfy in the UK?
51 Cedarjet : Fair point, but the earliest the group started was in Feb 1985, so it's hard to make a comparison to the formal, incorporated organisation of Hezboll
52 Post contains images Dtwclipper : That's nice, but don't call me dude. Maybe you should be. I don't disagree with you on most of this. I just can't let people like yourself justify te
53 ME AVN FAN : - The USA were asked for help by the Lebanese government, quite a difference to the Iraq in 2003
54 Cedarjet : I fail to see the difference between the actions of a military and a terrorist group to be honest. An Iraqi killed by an American bomb in Fallujah is
55 Dtwclipper : 1. The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pu
56 Cedarjet : NO!! 1 is a textbook difference of your own "Shock And Awe". In fact 1 is probably a better definition of any and all forms of warfare as 2. Read 1 a
57 Post contains images MDorBust : Did you forget to include your corollaries? 1. Unless it's a soldier, even one not engaged in any military duty 2. Unless they happen to be Israeli,
58 Fumanchewd : Sure, two perfectly respectable entities! Should I be suprised that those with "Cedar" in their usernames are defening Hezbollah? Hardly.
59 ME AVN FAN : In reality you should. Because most Lebanese detest Hizbullah. They however tend to defend them if confronted by "Westerners" and feeling a kind of n
60 Post contains images ORFflyer : On a civilian airliner, on a scheduled flight. Not in you're terrioist sympathizing mind it isn't. To most of the rest of the world it is/was. See ab
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