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Prince Harry Will Not Serve In Iraq  
User currently offlineKreze From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Head of the British Army said that Prince Harry will not serve in Iraq

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6663053.stm

There has been a lot of discussion about this and in many ways im not surprised about the decision.

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

thats cowardly


Konstantin


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

...what a farce, not to mention a slap in the face to those who do face true danger.

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

I am not surprised at this. Unlike his uncle who serve in the Falklands 'war' years ago, if Prince Harry were to be captured, killed or badly injured in Iraq, it would be a huge symboic win for the anti-western jiahadists - something the UK or the USA doesn't need at all in Iraq.

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

The last I heard, a camera crew was going to be going along to tape "Mr. Wales" and his mates in Iraq. Wouldn't that have, 1) Made him a more-identifiable target, and, 2) Turned the whole thing into a new series of "The Surreal Life?"

User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

The move represents a U-turn by the MoD, which said as recently as last month that the prince would be heading to Iraq as an armed reconnaissance officer.

As with all things related to Iraq it seems that no one knows what they are doing.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
the Falklands 'war' years ago

Why the quote marks on the word war? You don't agree that it was really a war?

Quoting Kreze (Thread starter):
Head of the British Army said that Prince Harry will not serve in Iraq

What's the purpose of a soldier, if he is non-deployable? And what's the point on going through a constant and vigorous training regiment, if the skills will never get put to the test?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
if Prince Harry were to be captured, killed or badly injured in Iraq, it would be a huge symboic win for the anti-western jiahadists - something the UK or the USA doesn't need at all in Iraq.

What? The symbol that the West is seriously dedicated to fighting terrorism, and is even willing to sacrifice even a Prince for that cause? The princes of middle eastern countries are sure as hell not strapping bombs to their chests... even though they are "dedicated" to the cause.

A a soldier, and as a leader, he deserves the opportunity to fight and lead his men, in combat.

To a soldier, this is the ultimate slap in the face.

-UH60


User currently offlineKreze From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 7):
A a soldier, and as a leader, he deserves the opportunity to fight and lead his men, in combat.

To a soldier, this is the ultimate slap in the face.

I agree. He became a soldier, he wants to serve, so let him serve.

However there was a lot of talk of an SAS team being deployed for his protection. I think even with protection he would have done well in Iraq even just to motivate. But would the Army have become so obsessed with his protection that his role in Iraq would have become overly restricted?


User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
thats cowardly


Konstantin

I assume you're directing this toward someone other than Harry?



Speedtape - The asprin of aviation!
User currently offlineKreze From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Quoting Molykote (Reply 9):
I assume you're directing this toward someone other than Harry

I assume that he must be refering to the Army. Harry Is anything but a coward considering he wanted to go to Iraq


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting Kreze (Reply 8):

I'm not saying it is the same thing... but in the US Army, there are soldiers fighting who are the sons of very high, very important military generals. Should they be captured, it would be a "big deal".

Remember John McCain during the Viet Nam War? He was the son of a very important admiral, and when he was captured, he was tortured in an attempt to get a confession... because the confession of an admiral's son would an extra jab at America.

He would not be the first famous/important person to be sent to the front lines. Obviously additional steps would be made to keep him secure, and more stringent OPSEC rules regarding him would apply... but if they didn't want to go through the headache of this, then why did they accept him into the military? Why bother, if he's going to be nothing but dead weight?

-UH60


User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

I think he should go, but don't tell anyone. Have a double stay in England. No news crews or anything. just him and his troop, maybe a few SAS and one or two pr people.

But I do understand why the Arny doesn't want to send him, same reason GWB had to fly in a S-3 vs a F-18. How would it look to lose him.


Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineKreze From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):

Im not experienced with military operation so i was not sure how protection would affect him. You make it obvious that he could still perform normally which is what i was really trying to find out thanks for the response.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):
but if they didn't want to go through the headache of this, then why did they accept him into the military? Why bother, if he's going to be nothing but dead weight?

I see what you are saying. They should have really considered this before they accepted him.


User currently offlineBilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

On one hand it is a farce that he is supposed to be a serving member of the British military, but he isn't allowed to go to Iraq. There's just been a politician on the news here saying "Are the Royal Family real serving members of our military, or are they just an adornment?"

Good question.

I would imagine this is a slap in the face to all the families who have lost someone in Iraq. Is Prince Harry's life worth more than a normal British soldier's?

On the other had, I bet there are a lot of people in Harry's unit breathing a sigh of relief now. I certainly wouldn't want to serve with him as he would be a magnet for every insurgent bullet and bomb in Iraq.


User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

I have no concrete reason to doubt Prince Harry's desire to serve in Iraq, but to play devil's advocate, does anyone think that Harry knew (or was told by military higher-ups), that if he announced his intention to serve on the front, that the request would be denied? I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, but I can imagine how things work behind closed doors, particularly when it comes not only to royalty, but to military operations.

Just a theory, flame away if you must...


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 14):
On the other had, I bet there are a lot of people in Harry's unit breathing a sigh of relief now. I certainly wouldn't want to serve with him as he would be a magnet for every insurgent bullet and bomb in Iraq.

If Prince Harry was deployed to Iraq how would potential enemies know that it was indeed Lt. Wales and not some regular British citizen? To me at least, one solder in uniform pretty much looks like the next one. Not like the MoD would advertise his whereabouts whilst deployed in Iraq.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

You know, I would LOVE to say somthing about this issue. But as an American who has never been overseas, much less to the UK, I think I'll just sit back and STFU. Hopefully this will make a good example for those overseas who always feel they need to chime in about American issues like gun control in the US.

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
thats cowardly

I don't agree at all. It is wise. To send a such exposed person into Iraq would most stupid. Not only Harry would be in danger but also all his comrades. Harry would be THE most wanted target by terrorist and with him all person around him.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 13):
On one hand it is a farce that he is supposed to be a serving member of the British military, but he isn't allowed to go to Iraq. There's just been a politician on the news here saying "Are the Royal Family real serving members of our military, or are they just an adornment?"

What is the difference with him pretending to be in the military and him pretending to be part of a real monarchy? The whole thing is a farce in my opinion.


User currently offlineLurch From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Why not swop his unit for Afghanistan instead of Iraq as its a More open area of war fare unlike Iraq which is a lot of FISH(Fighting In Somones House) Warfare along with lots of Iranian Improvised Explosive Devices which would Vaporise his little Light tank, As they have prouved they can take out a Challenger 2.

Harry will get to serve some where just not where he whants Hmm I wonder if he mite Join the Army Air Corps? Apaches would be a good Job


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
the Falklands 'war'

Why is war in quotes? Hey, you might think it was small potatoes compared to the horror show of Iraq, but at least we won.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
What's the purpose of a soldier, if he is non-deployable?

Exactly.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
To a soldier, this is the ultimate slap in the face.

No, the ultimate slap in the face are the reasons Harry gave for wanting to overrule the advice of his security guys and go - "I don't want to miss the excitement." Surely even to a soldier, war is the last resort, and certainly something to be avoided if possible - it's not a fairground ride or a game. Disgraceful to the real British soldiers who risk their lives for real, as adults, not children. (Anyway he's not even a proper by blood.)



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineBilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 15):
how would potential enemies know that it was indeed Lt. Wales and not some regular British citizen?

Well it's common knowledge that he is a commander of a light recon tank (I think it's a Scimitar?). I believe most (if not all) UK ground forces are concentrated in the Basra area. Therefore I think it would be fair to assume the minute a Scimitar shows up on the scene it would become the target of every insurgent in the hope that the third in line to the British Throne was inside.

I remember hearing about an episode during Desert Storm when a video was published showing Saddam Hussein in a mobile home (I think referred to in the US as a Winnebago?). Coalition aircraft then began destroying any mobile home they found in Iraq on the off chance Hussein might be inside.

[Edited 2007-05-16 21:40:12]

User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2190 times:

That's pretty bad of the Army, he's a front-line officer, he's trained and paid to fight, he's publicly said he wants to fight and it's even worse, since his men will still got to Iraq, but not him. The whole press is a joke. They go around Iraq with big cameras and sound booms all over the place following British troops around, just making them an easier target to see. If they had just left him alone, he could have gone to Iraq, served and come back THEN they could have told the public, but oh no, lets plaster it all over the place so the enemy know he's coming. Then, if he had gone, what's the bets a film crew from the BBC or ITV or someone like that, would have followed him around, distracting him from his actual job and making him an easier target, and yet, when the bullets start flying around they'd be there with their nice visible blue helmets and bullet proof jackets trying to film the soldiers.

Quoting Kreze (Reply 7):
However there was a lot of talk of an SAS team being deployed for his protection. I think even with protection he would have done well in Iraq even just to motivate. But would the Army have become so obsessed with his protection that his role in Iraq would have become overly restricted?

Of-cource the SAS would have been with him, they'd Shadow him, be in his team, go ahead of him to make sure he wasn't going into a suicide mission etc, he would have been well protected.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 20):
No, the ultimate slap in the face are the reasons Harry gave for wanting to overrule the advice of his security guys and go - "I don't want to miss the excitement." Surely even to a soldier, war is the last resort, and certainly something to be avoided if possible - it's not a fairground ride or a game.

True, but he's paid for the exact role for fighting wars, and there aren't many soldiers who don't want to fight in a war. Whether it be because they really want to, because they want a medal or anything like that, they do and will fight in wars without question.

Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 21):
(I think it's a Scimitar?

You are correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV107_Scimitar

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 20):

Exactly. I think the prince seems to think of war like a real time "Halo" game being played, he needs to be shown the death and suffering that takes place in a country at war for him to know the true objective of his assignment.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2173 times:

Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 21):
Therefore I think it would be fair to assume the minute a Scimitar shows up on the scene it would become the target of every insurgent in the hope that the third in line to the British Throne was inside.

That seems to have been the fear. How much attention you can pay to the media talking heads is moot, but the reported concern was that Iranian backed militia would target every British patrol in the hope of getting the Prince, and that the army weren't prepared to put every other soldier in that much increased danger.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
25 Bhill : "Everyone fights, nobody quits. If you don't do your job, I'll shoot you"....
26 Babybus : I don't think we should expect any member of the Royal family to really do any job. They were not born for it. I feel sorry for him. He'll probably sp
27 Sovietjet : Starship troopers?
28 Thomson735 : thats a real shame id love to see that ginger looser go out there and see real situation , hes been giving the "bigtime" for ages so lets send him out
29 NWOrientDC10 : My limited experience in the US Army was this : "Needs of the Army" The military, as I experienced it, is this- you do as you're told, period, end of
30 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Bullshit. We didn't need any helping. We, in the big 1-0-1, help OTHER divisions. Not the other way around! What are you talking about? Who's blaming
31 Post contains images MDorBust : I'm sure you had just gottent the Germans right where you wanted them when thoose pesky glory grabbers showed up.
32 StealthZ : Do I believe that as a soldier should he deploy with his troops, Well yes Do I believe that deployment may actually increase the risk to his troops an
33 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Uuuuhhh, Chief . . . . IIRC, Patton's III Army pulled the 101st ass outta the fire there . . . . of course, I'm just a dumbassed Tanker, what do I kn
34 Post contains images QANTASFOREVER : Oh my god! How will we go on?? Where the hell did that come from? QFF
35 Post contains images Fumanchewd : The King of Rock and Roll says, "Let him go!".
36 NWOrientDC10 : First of all, it's not "we", it's "they". I'm willing to guess that you weren't there in late 1944 when George S. Patton's Third Army helped Gen. Ant
37 Post contains images TedTAce : I think you are being confrontational 'just because'. It's really sad to see someone arguing a counterpoint just because they don't like the other ni
38 L-188 : Agree completely Agree completely I got to agree there too. If you send him there he is going to be a major drain of resources. As mentioned here, a
39 NWOrientDC10 : Please explain this further. Humor me, if you will. Russel
40 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Exactly. It isn't cowardly, and frankly some people here need to engage their brains a bit before putting their fingers into gear. Insurgents would b
41 Baroque : That was a bit of a worry. It might also be that between now and early 2008 would be an even worse time than usual to get kidnapped!!! I never though
42 DL021 : No. Not really.....it's unfortunate....but it merely makes the royal and the generals look bad. There are plenty of non-deployable soldiers stateside
43 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : You just don't get it, do you? I am currently IN the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault). My comments earlier - clearly meant to be light hearted -
44 Post contains images Baroque : Aha, I must remember that should I ever get into such a situation. I am sure it will work wonders. Actually, in many ways, the weakness of the German
45 WSOY : Could there be an alternative weekend special ops detachment unit serving nr. Crapchester of recent fame?
46 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Good questions, both. I wonder if they'll just send him anyway and not say anything . GWB did that for Thanksgiving one time - think the Brits can qu
47 Banco : Ones which Harry himself is supposed to have rather forcefully asked. That's the speculation. That at some point they'll pop him off to Afghanistan a
48 Post contains images QANTASforever : Well, not now you've said it. I'm still quite taken by this excellent point, which as far as I can tell has been somewhat avoided by the British MOD:
49 Post contains images Banco : You mean....even nutters around the world listen to every word I say? Um...on reflection that might not have come out quite the way I wanted it... It
50 Cornish : to which the flip side of course is that had he gone and something had happened, we'd have likely had some families saying that their loved ones had
51 Baroque : True, not sure how the MOD managed to get itself into this very uncomfortable situation. But then, that is the constant refrain of this whole exercis
52 Banco : He does at least believe he was doing the right thing. Agree with him or not, the argument that he was being a poodle always was utter nonsense.
53 LHStarAlliance : NO to the UK Military
54 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : Actually, I do get it. So? Granted and normally I would offer an apology but you took what I said earlier way out of context. I simply returned the f
55 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : lol... no NWOrient... I wouldn't imagine any lecture would get through to you. But I thought I'd try to bring you up to the level of everyone else in
56 Post contains images QANTASFOREVER : Heh - walked straight into it. As for HRH Prince Rambo - why didn't the royal family consider this whole thing as a possibility when he first joined
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