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Why Is Reagan Remembered So Fondly?  
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Some of the finer points:

-Tax cuts given to the rich based on "trickle-down" economics. All it really did was make the rich richer.
-Closed all the mental hospitals. Those that couldn't "make it" ended up homeless or in prison
-Cut oodles of social programs (even welfare) deemed to be "ineffective" while spending massive amounts of money on defence

And then there are the scandals:

Quote:
The Reagan administration saw several controversies unfold in their ranks which resulted in a number of administration staffers being convicted. The most well known, the Iran-Contra affair, involved a plan whereby weapons were sold to Iran and the profits diverted to fund the Nicaraguan Contras, in violation of US and international law.

225 different people in the Ronald Reagan administration have either quit, been fired, been arrested, indicted, or convicted of either breaking the law or violating the Ethics Code; Edwin Meese alone, the Attorney General, has been investigated by three separate Special Prosecutors.[1]

Several other controversies also occurred in the Reagan administration; one involved Department of Housing secretary Samuel Pierce and his associates. Wealthy contributors to the administration's campaign were rewarded with funding for low income housing development without the customary background checks, and lobbyists, such as former EPA head James G. Watt, were rewarded with huge lobbying fees for assisting campaign contributors with receiving government loans and guarantees. Six administration staffers were convicted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals

-Lastly, although the October Surprise situation in which Reagan made backdoor arms deals with the Iranians before being sworn in to hold off the release of the hostages is officially a conspiracy theory, it is widely believed to be - for the most part - accurate.

Now, besides the fact that he negotiated the end of the Cold War (which we now know he had little influence over since the Soviets were in the shit anyway), what makes people like him so much?


Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

He was an actor. He did a very good job of acting like he was getting important stuff done. That "Great Communicator" label was accurate, for all the rest of the man's flaws.


Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

For all my differences with him policy-wise, he was an effective communicatior, who tried to portray a positive image of America, and could charm even his political opponents. He was an amiable, good-natured president, and, honestly, I think he was a good man. I just didn't like many of his policies, but I never disliked the man.

User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Didn't he fire all the Air Traffic Controllers as well?

And then he got an Airport named after him. How Ironic.

-Copa


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
Didn't he fire all the Air Traffic Controllers as well?

And then he got an Airport named after him. How Ironic.

Yes he did. One of the worst moves he ever made. And naming the airport after him was simply a slap in the face at unions by the Republican Congress. It was intended to be a low blow, and it succeeded. To this day, I still call DCA "National Airport". Not as so much at disrespect to Mr. Reagan, but out of contempt for what the Congress did.


User currently offlineT773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
-Cut oodles of social programs (even welfare) deemed to be "ineffective" while spending massive amounts of money on defence

I don't get it, whats wrong with this?

I see nothing wrong with cutting social programs, half the reciptants choose not to work.

Heck I'am just graduating out of highschool, and found a job in a matter of days that pays $11.50. I know its not that great, but people do have more than one job. YOu have to remeber that this is in Lincoln Nebraska, were the price of living is very cheap. If I could find a job here, I imagine someboday could find one in a larger city in the same time period.

I shouldn't be paying for the lazy asses who choose not to work.



"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2657 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Yes he did. One of the worst moves he ever made.

He told the Air Traffic Controlers that if they went on strike they would be fired. Those who went strike got fired. Simple as that... Sounds like it was one of the worst moves the Air Traffic Controllers Union ever made.


 Yeah sure



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2657 times:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
Tax cuts given to the rich based on "trickle-down" economics. All it really did was make the rich richer.

Uh, no. The rich got more money because they pay more taxes! If there's a 10% tax, and you earn $20,000, how much are you paying in taxes? Now compare that with $200,000 and $2,000,000. No duh the rich got richer!

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
Cut oodles of social programs (even welfare) deemed to be "ineffective" while spending massive amounts of money on defence

Defense is not important than programs that are a waste of money? This is America-a free-enterprise economy. There's a job for everyone! You can start a business! You can succeed if you get off the couch and WORK!

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
Didn't he fire all the Air Traffic Controllers as well?

Yes, because they were striking.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineVANGUARD737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2656 times:

- He restored patriotism to Americans, ruined during the Carter years
- He helped end the Cold War
- He was a solid leader who always said what he meant and did what he said
- He had sound convictions
- He believed in the American people
- He sliced through the tons of bureaucratic red tape and social programs (i.e. handouts) created by the left
- He restored the American military to respectable strength and levels of repair
- He ran his administration off of what he felt was right, not what he thought would make him most popular (Clinton)

I can go on, but you get the point

Fact is, if you are conservative you are going to love him, and if you are liberal you are going to hate him. That in my opinion is the sign of a real leader - because it means he stood for what he believed in instead of trying to pitter-patter to all sides, an impossible task that only dilutes potential.

Rest in peace, Mr. President.

[Edited 2007-05-20 05:35:43]


320 717 722 732 733 735 737 738 744 752 753 763 772 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 ERJ CRJ CR7
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2650 times:

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 6):
He told the Air Traffic Controlers that if they went on strike they would be fired. Those who went strike got fired. Simple as that... Sounds like it was one of the worst moves the Air Traffic Controllers Union ever made.

It was simply a conservative slap at unions. Nothing more. He could have made a deal with them, but decided not to, simply to break that union. And, then, to name the National Airport after him, the GOP-controlled Congress made a deliberate "fuck you" to unions. It was no happenstance.

It stretched our ATC system for several years after.


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Yes he did. One of the worst moves he ever made.

It was not only against their contract to strike it was also against federal law for them to do so. They knew the risk when they decided to strike and ended up getting canned. The worst thing the did was thirty days before they struck they told the FAA the exact date they planned on doing it. This gave the FAA time to prepare and set up military controllers and management to keep the strike from crippling the national airspace system. They could have done a lot more damage and still kept their jobs by continuing work slow downs and sick outs. PATCO mearly gave Reagan the opportunity to end the contract negotiations in his favor. Reagan pulled the trigger but blame PATCO for handing him the loaded gun and blindfolding the controllers for him.


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 2621 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
He could have made a deal with them, but decided not to

PATCO could have made a deal with Regan but instead put thousands of its own out on the street. It not like Regan didn't tell them what was coming if they swent on strike.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 2608 times:

I left tthe country during his second year and returned during his relection. When I returned, I hitchhiked the entire counry and everywhere i went, the attitudes of the people were upbeat and positive compared to the despair that had I left. The economy was moving, people had jobs and were productive. It was good times. Reagan is easily the finest president in my lifetime.

User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He restored patriotism to Americans, ruined during the Carter years

Cause you know, the last few presidents before Carter did a great job keeping morale high.  Yeah sure

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He had sound convictions

Though not always a sound mind.  Wink

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He restored the American military to respectable strength and levels of repair

With giant interstellar lasers. Don't we all love lasers?


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

While I feel for the PATCO people for having to deal with crap conditions and getting fired, the basic rule persists: they knew that they would get fired, and they suffered the consequences.

I find it interesting that in the 1950s, Reagan was a Democrat. He changed to a "Hard-core" Republican, due to the Cold War.

Likewise, I disagreed with many of his policies, but I realize that the man was good natured, and deserves some respect.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 7):
Uh, no. The rich got more money because they pay more taxes! If there's a 10% tax, and you earn $20,000, how much are you paying in taxes? Now compare that with $200,000 and $2,000,000. No duh the rich got richer!

Uh, yes. Trickle-down/Supply-side economics do not work. The whole intent is to give the rich tax breaks, in hopes that they will pass down the savings to their employees, create job growth, reducing the deficit, etc. Realistically, the cost savings is too small to do anything, and the rich "pocket" the extra money and become richer. This is what is taught from a college economics class...


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Quoting T773ER (Reply 5):
I see nothing wrong with cutting social programs, half the reciptants choose not to work.

Yes, well you should be in your 30s to 40s when the next major disruption in the economic system occurs and you may well live to regret writing that. Aside from that, what do you propose to do with the half that could not work and had their social programs cut?

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):
Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He had sound convictions

Though not always a sound mind. Wink

And the Iran-Contra effort should have lead to a real conviction.  wink 

It is interesting that Carter gets panned for not preventing the Iran hostage crisis, but Reagan more or less skates free for having turned a blind eye to the invasion of Lebanon and the subsequent bombings that are still having awful repercussions decades later. While Jimmy managed at Camp David to sort out one of the boundary problems.

All beyond my understanding.

How is the Laffer curve going these days by the by?


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2525 times:
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I have no fond memories of Reagan. His behavior during the AIDS crisis was appalling. Talk about "fiddling while Rome burned", Reagan not only did nothing, he obstructed wherever possible. I can never forgive him for that. I lost dozens of my friends.


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Quoting T773ER (Reply 5):
I see nothing wrong with cutting social programs, half the reciptants choose not to work.

Even if that's true (the only quote I've heard on that has been "a small number"), what to do with all the others? The simple fact is that because all these social programs got cut (most importantly the mental hospitals and federally subsidized low-cost housing), the number of homeless people rose dramatically through the 80's. And this jump brought with it something the country had never seen before - homeless women and children.

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He had sound convictions
- He believed in the American people

 rotfl  And Roger Moore is and international spy who kills the baddie every time and gets to sleep with all the women he wants! Bush 43 is saying the same thing; he's just a terrible actor.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 14):
I find it interesting that in the 1950s, Reagan was a Democrat. He changed to a "Hard-core" Republican, due to the Cold War.

The other big reason for his change was the Berkley student movement and the counter-culture of the '60s. He saw them as a bunch of spoiled, punk kids who needed to be put it line. His hard-line treatment of unions came from similar motivations.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 14):
Likewise, I disagreed with many of his policies, but I realize that the man was good natured, and deserves some respect.

 checkmark  Genuinely, he seemed like a nice guy. I, too, respect him for that.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Quoting PA110 (Reply 16):
His behavior during the AIDS crisis was appalling.

Wow, I can't believe I forgot to mention this. Thanks for bringing it up.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Probably our most overrated President. He receives credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union when he deserves absolutely zero. He’s looked upon fondly by conservatives, but they sometimes forget to mention that back in the day he was originally a Democrat, and as President he acted like it sometimes; he spent like there was no tomorrow and he started America’s war on drugs. He could have addressed AIDS (or GRID as some called it back then) a lot sooner in his presidency. Weapons for hostages was probably the low point of his administration, but to his credit he owned up to that mistake, which is something that has alluded Presidents since him. All in all an average President.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 8):
- He restored patriotism to Americans, ruined during the Carter years
- He helped end the Cold War
- He was a solid leader who always said what he meant and did what he said
- He had sound convictions
- He believed in the American people
- He sliced through the tons of bureaucratic red tape and social programs (i.e. handouts) created by the left
- He restored the American military to respectable strength and levels of repair
- He ran his administration off of what he felt was right, not what he thought would make him most popular (Clinton)

I can go on, but you get the point

Mega Dittos.....!!!

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
Now, besides the fact that he negotiated the end of the Cold War (which we now know he had little influence over since the Soviets were in the shit anyway), what makes people like him so much?

Not true at all.... at that time the US Military was is bad-bad shape. No new tools, no moral, low pay, a military that's infrastructure was crumbling and poor retention. He got pay raises, new and upgraded tools, new housing-buildings and brought pride back into the military. He also out spent the Communists and forced their demise. It's funny for me to read your comments when you were not even alive at that time and take your information from a known very unreliable source...Wikipedia

.as for why.....?? See the above list.

[Edited 2007-05-20 17:25:00]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

I think it all comes down to one word. Timing. He was the right guy for the job at the time.

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 7):
This is America-a free-enterprise economy. There's a job for everyone! You can start a business! You can succeed if you get off the couch and WORK!

Goodness... do people really still believe this fairytale? I'm certain the Veteran who lost his legs in Vietnam, the 17yo mother who just got dumped by her "I'll be faithful forever!"-boyfriend and thrown out of her parents' house, the 40yo cancer victim whose medical costs are ten times his income and the depressive guy who can't even afford anti-depressants would really all just love to hear it.  sarcastic 

Bottom line: abandoning welfare is killing people. Period. If a "society" can live with that, its members should really reconsider whether it's worth the name.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5678 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
He also out spent the Communists and forced their demise

He was lucky. Had Andropov lived, the USSR and the communist bloc would probably still be in existence. It had been crumbling for years, but only Gorbachev had the courage to put it out of its misery. He looked the other way and refused to intervene when East Germany collapsed in 1989, the beginning of the end of the communist bloc.

That was unprecedented in the USSR. It wasn't Reagan who finished-off the communists, it was Gorby.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20500 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Quoting AC773 (Reply 17):
The other big reason for his change was the Berkley student movement and the counter-culture of the '60s. He saw them as a bunch of spoiled, punk kids who needed to be put it line.

The first demonstrations at Berkeley were against the 1967 budget cuts which proposed a tuition fee on the UC system for the first time ever. It was later that year that he called for a harder line against war protestors.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 17):
His hard-line treatment of unions came from similar motivations.

Even though he was president of the Screen Actors Guild from 1947-1952 and 1959-1960.  Wink



International Homo of Mystery
25 Yellowstone : I'm not sure that Gorbachev deserves quite as much credit as you are giving him. He certainly wanted to reform the Soviet system, but he wanted to ke
26 Boeing7E7 : Why you ask? He was a freaking bad ass that didn't take shit from anybody. Unlike the last three candy asses we've had in there.
27 Braybuddy : You are right, he probably didn't expect a huge chain reaction throughout Eastern Europe, and he may not have been able to stop it. He didn't even tr
28 102IAHexpress : I hate when I take time from my Sunday to straighten out my fellow aNetters but sometimes it's necessary. President Regan was around at the right tim
29 Boeing7E7 : Hate to ruin your Sunday time out, but it is rather certain, viewed today, the Soviet Union had a weak military compared to the US, poor living stand
30 Longhornmaniac : Just out of curiosity, did you even read the rest of it? He's not saying that the USSR existed like that throughout the Cold War, or anything resembl
31 Post contains links AC773 : I'd rebut that, but it seems many people already have. I don't take my info from Wikipedia, I take it from a year of studying US History in college.
32 Post contains images LAXspotter : Summed it up quite well, as mentioned earlier he was just there at the right time.
33 BN747 : Oh he communicated all right... as long as you weren't gay or a minority-- he spoke for and to you. Scary part is, a majority of the world outside th
34 ConcordeBoy : While the first part's rather indisputable, how (and in what ways) did he obstruct? Based on the behavior of so many gays in today's age of informati
35 AeroWesty : Not necessarily. The use of protection of any type was nearly zero in the late 70s/early 80s. I find it improbable to believe that everyone's discard
36 Aloges : Do you really mean what I think you mean: that leaving people for dead through welfare cuts is a good thing?
37 Mham001 : Yes, Im sure a college course in Canada will give you a more accurate portrait of US history than that of one who was there.
38 AeroWesty : Hmm, I think the same when 20-somethings try to tell us what the AIDS crisis was like in the 1980s.
39 ConcordeBoy : ...indeed, though you're the only one to even allude to such a scenario in this conversation. I doubt I could care less in the event such a policy wa
40 Copaair737 : Everytime I think of Reagan, I'm reminded of the Dead Kennedys' song "We've Got a Bigger Problem Now" Last call for alcohol. Last call for your freedo
41 Post contains images AeroWesty : I don't know what other connection could be made.
42 Jaysit : Reagan is remembered fondly because he had a lovely voice and read lovely verse written by that ultimate political whore, Peggy Noonan. Reagan also ca
43 Aloges : You've totally lost me there... You "doubt that you could care less" - usually people omit the "could not care less" bit, is that the case here? Anyw
44 Jaysit : How did he obstruct? He obstructed by refusing to react affirmatively to the cries of his own political hires at the NIH, FDA, HHS, etc., while letti
45 Post contains links TACAA320 : Directly related with RR's administration. " Federal prosecutors are preparing to unveil criminal charges against former budget director David A. Stoc
46 Post contains images Baroque : There I was Aloges, thinking you post was a precise explanation of matters that would be hard to fault, when BANG! So I am left wondering what else "
47 ConcordeBoy : ...sounds like a personal problem. The statement is correct as originally presented. Understood. 'Preciate the info.
48 AeroWesty : Or you could have just stated what you meant originally. This is a discussion, not a guessing game forum.
49 Frequentflyer : I think he had the right attitude (firm) in front of the then-USSR and had a sunny persona. But he has been quite awful on social policies. He let dow
50 Jaysit : Incidentally, read the latest Vanity Fair. It has excerpts from Reagan's diaries while he was in office. Its worth a read.
51 ConcordeBoy : Fine, if you need me to dumb it down for you: Taking the time/benefit factor of general medical research into account--- with the lack of comprehensi
52 Jaysit : I agree with you that those infected in the early years of the AIDs crisis had their death sentences written even prior to any positive funding actio
53 Post contains images D L X : I'll never call it anything but "National Airport", and I correct all the out-of-towners here that call it something else. And to the people who live
54 DeltaGator : Your partisanship aside what about folks that never had a chance to vote for Dulles but yet there is an airport named after him? What about Norman Mi
55 DeltaDC9 : No he made the US treasury richer because tax revenue increased, inflation reduced, unemployment reduced, and corporate investment in their own infra
56 Jaysit : It never was a FU to the fired ATC folks. It was part of a concerted effort by kooky GOP types to name one major edifice in every single county in th
57 D L X : I'm hardly partisan. You should know that by now. But we all know that you just like to take stupid snipes at me, so as you will... As for Dulles, I
58 DeltaDC9 : And this is different from the MLK, Kennedy, and many other efforts how? Not being hostile, just pointing out that this is very common.
59 DeltaGator : Ha! I just threw up in my mouth. Thanks for the laugh. Oh, so less controversial makes it ok? What about JFK? He was pretty controversial when they r
60 D L X : Hating W doesn't make me partisan. Nor does disagreeing with you. I mean, let's face it. The entire reason you don't like me is over a stupid college
61 Post contains images DeltaGator : I never said it did. You are incredibly partisan in your threads and responses on here regardless of it being about Dubya or anyone even remotely con
62 Post contains images D L X : Dude. I'm sorry I call people out for knee-jerk worshipping the ground that conservatives step on, and I'm sorry that liberals haven't done enough la
63 DeltaDC9 : That is their problem and what you SHOULD be criticising, all they have done is pass useless non binding resolutions and bitch a lot. Where's the bee
64 BN747 : He represented those who DID NOT believe his message??? Is this the same dimension where 2+2= 3 ? Reagan switched parties in the 50's because the mos
65 D L X : That WAS criticism.
66 Jaysit : Well, this is far more orchestrated and spooky. Especially since the Reagan Legacy Project is founded by arch-conservative crazy Reagan cult leader G
67 DeltaDC9 : It is the dimension we live in where the majority rules and the President represents all Americans, even the ones who did not vote for him or did not
68 Jaysit : JFK's death at the barrel of a gun did not make him a hero. It just made him a tragic figure in American history. What made him a hero (judging by tr
69 ConcordeBoy : Agreed, that was perhaps the most disgraceful of the name changes... ...not always nor in everything.
70 D L X : Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but why is adding Jackson to the name so inappropriate? From what I know of the guy (which is not much more
71 DeltaGator : Scared vs. scarred. It doesn't matter. The response would have been the same. Now that said , all other crap aside from earlier... It probably is so
72 ConcordeBoy : ...bah. Be it Klan Nazis, Afrocentric radicals, or anything in between: discrimination is discrimination
73 BN747 : In high school (for an exam)..yes, in real life not a chance. When a President intentionally ignores/marginalizes a segment of the society, that repr
74 MCOflyer : One of very good presidents deserves to remembered. Hunter
75 Baroque : From here those events were like watching a train crash in slow motion. Here in Aus a task force was set up chaired by a Prof Pennington (IIRC) and t
76 DeltaDC9 : Look, I like JFK dont get me wrong, but he was supposed to navigate away from the shipping lanes to get a clean shot and he screwed up and went right
77 Post contains images Superfly : Keep in mind President Reagan opposed Martin Luther King holiday until it passed in the Democratic controlled House by an overwhelming veto-proof maj
78 DeltaDC9 : I also oppose federal holidays that are not observed by anyone but federal employees and banks. I am Italian American and they want to elimninate our
79 Superfly : What holiday are you talking about? The people of Kuwait and Falklands may disagree.
80 DeltaDC9 : Columbus Day of course. Rare exceptions wouldnt you agree?
81 Superfly : Nope. When our government is serious about getting something accomplished, it gets done. I am sure there are other Italians more deserving than him.
82 Confuscius : I am sure there are other Italians more deserving than him. Amerigo Vespucci Day? Sylvester Stallone Day?
83 ME AVN FAN : And he was a great orator/speaker. If HE told people that he had to get to the toilet, it sounded like an important state mission ! - That he became
84 Post contains links Baroque : You obviously avoid reading what governments CAN and HAVE done. Try http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...t=clnk&cd=3&gl=au&client=firefox-a and loo
85 DeltaDC9 : I hope you are not serious. Not they are both conservatives who believe that government hinders more than it helps in these matters. I worked at Brys
86 Superfly : I hope you are not serious.
87 Jaysit : And what did you do at BMS? Work in R&D? If it weren't for Government spending on HIV research, nothing would have been done. The breakthrough resear
88 Confuscius : DeltaDC9 "I hope you are not serious." Of course not. If I were, I'd want a Frank Stallone Day. You know, Sylvester's musician brother.
89 TeamAmerica : You didn't lose them due to Reagan. That's nonsensical revisionist history, most notably perpetuated in the book and later the movie version of And T
90 Jaysit : Reagan saved Nancy Reagan from B-moviedom, and made her First Lady. Twice. For that he's a hero. Bless his heart.
91 ConcordeBoy : What's your point? Name a retrovirus with a "cure". ...in 1981? Yeah, probably quite a few.
92 Jaysit : Please read my Post 44, but here it is re-written. Reagan resisted advice by his Surgeon General, Head of the NIH, and the OTT to address the issue i
93 TeamAmerica : My point is to contradict those who say that Reagan somehow facilitated the AIDS crisis. There is no cure, so suggesting that Reagan obstructed the d
94 AC773 : He facilitated the AIDS crisis by not considering it a crisis, and people had to die because they didn't know the risks & how to protect themselves.
95 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...and whom here (or really, elsewhere-- names please) has suggested that "Reagan obstructed the discovery of a cure"? ...define "it". The link betwe
96 Jaysit : Well, it broke big in big cities in the NorthEast and in California, but smaller news stations and affiliates in more conservative states weren't giv
97 Post contains images StarAC17 : While I agree with you on principle UAXDXer ans would have done the same thing that Reagan did had I been in his shoes as having a "no-strike" clause
98 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : Yet provided more jobs, and as far as the other two, I'd like a source about the 1st one (all of them?) and a good reason why welfare is such a great
99 ConcordeBoy : Sadly, that sentence can also be used in present-tense, and one certainly cannot blame Reagan for that (not to say that anyone here has).
100 Jaysit : Well, you have a point. And while I am not a fan of Scalia (I find Thomas a better justice, believe it or not) at least Scalia, while very conservati
101 Allstarflyer : So the rich loved him because of his huge tax breaks, now you're saying you can see "why the average bloke loved" him. Who next do you think might ha
102 Post contains links and images TeamAmerica : As I've said above, that is nonsense. The AIDS crisis was the worry-of-the-moment; I recall Ted Koppel on Nightline with projections of the infection
103 Jaysit : What do you not get? The rich don't make up the 60% of America who voted for Reagan in 1984. Reagan won because he got blue collar voters and white c
104 Dtwclipper : And you know this because as an engineer you have studied the various genotypes and mutations over the last 25 years? There are thousands of people w
105 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : Just quoting the threadstarter . . . I've been clear, even recently (in a thread in which your presence has been prevalent), about being an independe
106 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Let me clarify: I did not say that I believe HIV has mutated; I meant that the question has been raised by others. I can only say what I've read. I d
107 Dtwclipper : HIV does mutate. That is why it is very difficult to treat. If people miss just one of their meds, this can cause mutation of the virus. You have to
108 Jaysit : Actually, there are individuals who after being infected with HIV even in the early '80s continue to survive today even after not being on any treatm
109 Dtwclipper : I am one of those as well. Same here, but I started HAART in around '98. I was not part of a study, but was able to take part in a "drug holiday" to
110 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...which makes no mention of, or even allusion to, a cure. Hence my question to you. Indeed, always the most accurate form of corroboration No kiddin
111 Coleplane : You have to be very careful here. For that matter, so do I. While I totally agree Reagan failed to extend HIV the respect it deserved at the time, be
112 Post contains links TeamAmerica : Exactly what theory are you referring to? I mentioned something in passing (HIV mutation) and personally have NO OPINION one way or the other. I did
113 Dtwclipper : This one. Then why are you posting on the subject?
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