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How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?  
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2896 times:


3.7L V6 300HP 17/22 mpg



4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg



5.5L V8 382HP 15/22 mpg




15/19 mpg



5.0L V8 302HP 14/19 mpg



4.8L V8 350HP 15/21 mpg


Cost and reliability aside.

I’ve tried many times to get answers from the experts here in related threads so I’ve decided to start my own thread. Why is that imports to the USA get a free pass from criticism for poor gas mileage? These vehicles listed get worse mileage than Chrysler’s HEMI powered vehicles, less than the current Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS and yet American cars are often disregarded as all having poor fuel economy.
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks. Therefore, they are automatically going to have a higher fuel economy average of the vehicles they import. If they did import them here, there numbers would fall also.
What I find ironic is that some Europeans criticize the US for driving gas-guzzlers yet don’t have a problem importing and selling us there gas-guzzlers.


Bring back the Concorde
97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):

Car builders build what the Market wants , if Americans want big cars , big cars will be built .
The customers have to change the builders and not the builders the customers .


konstantin


User currently offlineRichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

 checkeredflag 

In my mind we are including these vehicles, but its easier just to say "Hemi" or "SUV" and imply everything else.

My 2 cents


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 2):
its easier just to say "Hemi" or "SUV" and imply everything else.

Ah-ha, so it's about what is "easier" to say?  Wow!
If there is any true stupid useless vehicle on the road, it's the car-based crossover SUV luxury models such as the Mercedes M-class, RX-series, X5 and such. They sit up high, get poor milage, handling is not up to par with sedans/coupes and can't go off road even though they are equiped with 4X4 drive.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8684 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

There you go:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):



3.7L V6 300HP 17/22 mpg



4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg



5.5L V8 382HP 15/22 mpg



15/19 mpg



5.0L V8 302HP 14/19 mpg



4.8L V8 350HP 15/21 mpg


Cost and reliability aside.

I’ve tried many times to get answers from the experts here in related threads so I’ve decided to start my own thread. Why is that imports to the USA get a free pass from criticism for poor gas mileage? These vehicles listed get worse mileage than Chrysler’s HEMI powered vehicles, less than the current Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS and yet American cars are often disregarded as all having poor fuel economy.
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks. Therefore, they are automatically going to have a higher fuel economy average of the vehicles they import. If they did import them here, there numbers would fall also.
What I find ironic is that some Europeans criticize the US for driving gas-guzzlers yet don’t have a problem importing and selling us there gas-guzzlers.

I shake my head at them no less than I shake it at (sub)urban F-150s and GMC trucks. But then again, you can count the average of days per month that I partly spend in a car on the fingers of one hand.

Edit: I just realised that it's Ad-Block that blocks the Yahoo! images, so my post is a service to Ad-Block users. Big grin

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:01:55]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineRichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
4X4 drive.

4x4 isn't just for off road in some places, but I see what you are saying. Being i dont have any emotions on this topic per say, I'm backing out. Said my piece and I have to agree with:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
Car builders build what the Market wants

but add one thing, this is what has gotten American manufacturers in alot of trouble. They do not build what the vast market needs, just what some guys want and apply it across the board.


User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

With the possible exception of the Mitsubishi (not sure what those are going for these days), someone who can afford any of the other cars on your list isn't concerned with gas mileage. More "average" cars like a Ford Explorer or a Crown Vic are bought by people for whom an extra $100/month in gas can make a real difference. But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

Also, how do the vehicles you listed compare to somewhat equivalent U.S. models, like an Escalade, Navigator, Grand Cherokee SRT-8, or big Cadillac sedan? Are the comparable U.S. models better or worse than the Euro models?



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
If there is any true stupid useless vehicle on the road, it's the car-based crossover SUV luxury models such as the Mercedes M-class, RX-series, X5 and such. They sit up high, get poor milage, handling is not up to par with sedans/coupes and can't go off road even though they are equiped with 4X4 drive.

Amen, those things are destroying the car market with what is probably the mutant spawn of a bad idea. Either get a nice sedan or get an SUV, crossovers are turning into poorer mileage minvans. YUCK!


User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff? is the average amount of people who die/killed in icing conditions higher or lower in SUV's/4X4's and are 4X4's beneficial in anyway in a normal everyday life?

Just a query  Smile

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

I don't think Superfly intended this thread to have anything to do with the economic side of these vehicles, but with the emissions/environmental side. After all, you bought a fuel-guzzler, you should expect higher fuel bills.

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:10:48]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

SUVs become more and more popular here in Germany. I see Porsche Cayennes, VW Touaregs, Audi Q7s, Merc M-Classes, and BMW X5s countless times every day. I have no problems with these cars, in fact, I really like to drive the VW Touareg of my father's company. My parents thought about buying a VW Touareg to replace the Audi A6 which is our 2nd car, meanwhile they decided to keep the A6 so that we have at least one Diesel in our "family car fleet".

The only thing that I don't get is that everyone is complaining about the high gas prices here, but SUVs are as popular as never before.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg

Interesting, the Q7 has the same 4.2L V8 engine like the A8 but the A8's engine has 30HP more. I didn't know that before.

Patrick


User currently offlineEmirates773er From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 6):
With the possible exception of the Mitsubishi (not sure what those are going for these days), someone who can afford any of the other cars on your list isn't concerned with gas mileage. More "average" cars like a Ford Explorer or a Crown Vic are bought by people for whom an extra $100/month in gas can make a real difference. But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

 checkmark 



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Good question.

The Europeans now make the most powerful cars in the world. Several mass-produced cars make more than 500 or even 600 horsepower. Specialty cars like Bugatti can go over 1000hp. In an environment where gas costs double what it costs in the US, AND where the concentration of population makes polution a much greater problem than in the US.

Also, even European manufacturers and even the Japanese are making monsterously heavy cars and SUVs.

Americans have always liked their big cars, and I agree, it's a problem and Americans really need to get their size complex under control.

But Europe has always been the land of the small car. 30 years ago, at least 90% of all cars in Europe had 4-bangers or smaller, with engine sizes usually in low-to-mid 1 liter range. 6-cylinders were rare and V8s and V-12s were in the stratosphere. Now, average engine size has at least doubled. You can get a VW Golf with a supercharged V-6! You can buy a new Mini (at over twice the weight of the old one) with 250 hp, straight out of the factory!

For all the faults of the american driver, Europeans have gone nuts with their cars, and mainly this happened AFTER Kyoto, global warming etc..


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
Car builders build what the Market wants , if Americans want big cars , big cars will be built .
The customers have to change the builders and not the builders the customers .

True. Do you think anyone in Europe will buy a 4x4 with a 5.0l gasoline engine? 4x4s in Europe are sold almost exclusively with lower-capacity diesel engines.

That doesn't excuse them of being road mammooths, though...



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Galapagapop & PPVRA gets it!  yes 
That's why my first sentence was "Cost and reliability aside".


Jamesbuk:
I certainly understand the need for 4WD but these vehicles would have it's warranty voided if they were taken off road. Yes I know it comes in handy on icy roads.
Many people buy they 4X2 option to save a few dollars but still get to have that all important 3-pointed star in there driveway to impress there neighbors. Then they take that drive up to Lake Tahoe in the winter and reminded that even SUVs has it's limitations.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 6):
But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

You'd be suprised.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff?

Absoluetly. The only people that say otherwise are those that don't live where the winters are brutal.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks.

I understand the premise of your thread (and even agree that the foreign SUV's are given a pass.) But commercial trucks are excluded from the fleet MPG averages for all manufacturers.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
For all the faults of the american driver, Europeans have gone nuts with their cars,

I don't understand this. Europe has such a sophisticated rail system in place. Combine that with the better beer they have, it makes more sense to ride the train.  Smile



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

What surprises me is that my V8 Toyota Sequoia gets about 18 mpg+ in HWY alone, and it can seat 8 in comfort.

User currently offlineRichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
better beer

Take that back, their beer sucks =)


User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 2):
"Hemi"

Hemis are actually much more efficient than their magnum predecessors.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
That doesn't excuse them of being road mammooths, though...

My Tahoe feels quite small compared to the massive number of Kenworths and Peterbuilts, but noone complains about how beg they are? Agenda?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
What surprises me is that my V8 Toyota Sequoia gets about 18 mpg+ in HWY alone, and it can seat 8 in comfort.

The new Tahoes get 22 MPG! about a 20% improvement over the previous version.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

I am proud to say that I drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla "S"



She gets 30cty and 38hwy, but on average, I get about 32 mpg or 380 miles on a tank (whichever comes first).
She has a 1.8L 126HP VVT-i engine

She may not be the hottest, most stylish, and loudest car in the bunch, but she gets me from A to B EFFICIENTLY.

Before I got "BlueAngel" I had "Pony"


This thing was a 3.8L 256HP, but I only really got about 120 HP out of it the whole time I had it. It needed a lot of work on the engine, transmission, fuel system, wheels. It needed a new paint job, Interior redone, and I just didn't have the money to work on it, or the time. Besides, at the rate gas prices are going, I couldn't have afforded to keep her running. At $3.35 a gallon, and only getting 21mpg on that car 18/28mpg, It would cost me a fortune.

So I can proudly say I am doing my part to keep America efficient.. ARE YOU?


User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1199 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2686 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



My favourite gas-guzzler Used for fjord-rafting in Oslo -comes in to visit me for a fill-up of 400 litres 2-3 times a week  biggrin 


Scooter

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:50:50]


"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 19):
Hemis are actually much more efficient than their magnum predecessors

 checkmark 
...and is within a few mpg of a Honda Accord. The new HEMIs get better milage than many of the little V6 engines in the vehicles listed above.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 19):
My Tahoe feels quite small compared to the massive number of Kenworths and Peterbuilts, but noone complains about how beg they are? Agenda?

Please tell me you weren't serious with your question.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39686 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

BR715-A1-30:
Sounds like you owned a lemon. If you got the GT, you would have got 26 mpg.



Bring back the Concorde
25 RichPhitzwell : Trust me, I know what the HEMIs effieciency is. You also have to look at what year, 05 is less efficient than the 06 and the original HEMI is terribl
26 UnitedMSY : Either that, or it just needed a LOT of work. I loved "Pony", I really didn't want to get rid of her, but I didn't have $7,500 to repair the engine,
27 Post contains images PPVRA : Holy crap! Is that for real? Looks like a tourist type of thing. No wonder, Zodiacs are a heck of a ride.
28 Post contains images Superfly : RichPhitzwell: My comment wasn't directed at you and yes I am well aware of the difference between a late 1960s Hemi and the modern Hemi. UnitedMSY: I
29 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Nobody forces Americans to buy these cars, and Europeans wouldn't ship them if we weren't buying. Let's differentiate what we mean by 4x4 (a vehicle
30 Post contains images DL787932ER : Actually, I completely understand the desire to complain. We're getting ripped off by current gas prices, and even someone who can easily afford to p
31 DAL767400ER : Typical hypocrisy of most folks. Personally, I dislike most of those cars above, especially the Q7, which IMHO is just an A6 sedan on a steroid overd
32 ACDC8 : Unless that pony car has had mods done on it, the 3.8L V6 was only rated from 145 -150 HP for the SN-95 in your photo (which I'm assuming is a 96-98
33 Aloges : That's really all that needs to be said about 95% of SUVs. People who work in the forest or in construction or similar off-road surroundings are pret
34 Runway24R : This is not meant to be a rant or dig at 4x4 owners, but my experience has lead to these conclusions: People who need a 4x4 (Farmers, construction wor
35 DeltaGator : Nothing is safer in ice. In Atlanta we don't get a lot of snow but we usually get 1 or 2 decent ice storms a year. Us good Southerners know just to p
36 Galapagapop : 4x4's are really more or less maginally better than a sedan in ice. The adavntage for most SUV's comes from their sheer weight that helps spread the
37 Vikkyvik : Well, I live in the Boston area, and I drive the Honda Civic, which is almost the exact same as this: (except mine has a manual transmission) And I'v
38 TWISTEDWHISPER : A Kenworth is a commercial vehicle for hauling large amounts of goods, it's a so called purpose built vehicle. It can haul, I don't know... 60-65.000
39 Post contains images Airfoilsguy : One of my vehicles has you all beat. It gets around 45 mpg and will out run just about anything on the road.
40 L410Turbolet : a) One of the reasons is boom of diesel engines which tend to have higher displacement yet much better gas mileage. Increase from 23% to 41% share be
41 Post contains images BHXFAOTIPYYC : and here.... but I will vigourously defend people's right to buy and drive whatever they wish. The larger the vehicle, the more fuel, therefore taxes
42 JJJ : As an excercise: EU. Jan-March 07 Opel/Vauxhall Corsa 118.005 Fiat Punto 115.609 Ford Focus 113.224 Peugeot 207 112.540 Renault Clio 109.653 Opel/Vau
43 Checkraiser : In a purely ice storm, like what Delta Gator gets his way, I'll admit 4X4 doesn't give you much of an edge. When you're in snow, or driving in that s
44 Post contains images PHLBOS : No, they just make them here in the good ol' USA: Similar to the car or the SUV market, when a Japanese company offers a vehicle as large (& as thirs
45 DeltaGator : Hmmm....I see a bunch of small to mid-sized cars in Europe vs. 3 truck and 7 small to mid-sized cars in the US. Don't see much of an issue at all rea
46 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : You´ve to admit ... nice cars specially the German ones ! Konstantin
47 MD11Engineer : All of the cars shown there are not real off road cars, but "Geltungstriebwagen", cars to show off for people with small willies. My boss drives the
48 MCOflyer : That thing is supposed to be fuel efficient yielding nearly 1.5 miles a gallon. Not too shabby. My SUV, a 2000 Suzuki Grand Vitara gets 19 in the cit
49 Post contains images Superfly : Isn't that the truth?!?! Look at how the reviews were head over heals when the Lexus LS400 first came out. Granted it's a great car and all, for a Ja
50 JJJ : US. 3 trucks, 3 compacts, 4 midsize EU: 1 midsize, 4 compacts, 5 subcompacts. I see a significant trend. Take in engine capacity and the results will
51 Post contains images MD11Engineer : Jan
52 Superfly : Oh and I forgot to add, gas-guzzlers too!
53 DAL767400ER : Quoted for truth. I just have to think about the "success" of the VW Phaeton (aka a Passat on steroids)...
54 ME AVN FAN : if the European and Japanese manufacturers would NOT produce such vehicles, US-Americans would say that they did NOT care about the US market ! - and
55 Post contains images Melpax : Same thing is happening here as well. Nissan & Toyota dealers are having trouble selling Patrols & Landcruisers due to being percieved as 'gas guzzlin
56 Post contains images Superfly : I see you have jokes for us. I wouldn't mind having a Citroen, if it was reliable. Now isn't that ironic?
57 DeltaDC9 : I was completely serious. Do you have any idea how many big rigs clog US roads and highways? What is silly is complaining about the size of real full
58 Melpax : Yep, just whack a German badge on the grill (Even if the M class & X5 are made in the US) & everything will be just fine......................
59 StealthZ : And taking a lead from the US security folks penchant for black Suburbans, they are becoming the darling of our security services. You don't have to
60 Superfly : Funny and yes, you are correct. Most M-class owners here would have a fit if they knew there vehicle was made in South Carolina.
61 ME AVN FAN : the cars I mentioned ARE reliable. I drive FIAT cars since 1974, I had Renault and Peugeot as rental-cars very very often, and a colleague of me and
62 Mir : Are you seriously comparing the fuel economy of a big rig to the fuel economy of an SUV? Big rigs are on the road for a reason - they have a lot of s
63 DeltaDC9 : Never said anything of the sort. I was commenting on people who complain about the size of SUVs as if it were a hazard when the roads are full of lar
64 Superfly : Those big rigs are driven by professionals that have obtained a special license to drive these kinds of vehicles. No need for a special license to dr
65 DeltaDC9 : Look, I was raised around trucks and truck drivers and a lot of them are keeping two sets of books, driving longer than allowed, using speed, using l
66 Superfly : That is illegal and companies can face serious fines for this. Well aware of that. I know a few truckers too. I've seen an accident with my own eyes
67 Checkraiser : Pish posh. As someone who works in the safety department of a trucking company I can assure you that none of those are common occurences these days.
68 Superfly : I am surprised that it's only 70% for passengers. Passengers car are the worse and I've seen them take some very dangerous maneuvers around big rigs.
69 Post contains links and images MD11Engineer : The most dangerous vehicles on German roads are vans of the Mercedes Benz Sprinter class. Too small to fall under the restrictions required for heavie
70 1stfl94 : Paint it white and it becomes the most dangerous vehicle on Britain's roads!!
71 DAL767400ER : Not just the Merc Sprinter, but pretty much any other product in that size. In general, handling of those cars isn't actually that bad on most street
72 Post contains images Sabena332 : Last Friday I drove on the A44 between Dortmund and Soest, I drove our A6 with a speed of approximately 160 kph. A blue Merc Sprinter decided to tail
73 Superfly : I don't know why Chrysler dumped the reliable and dependable Ram van.
74 MD11Engineer : This is why I said Sprinter class. For me this includes similar vehicles like the VW LT, the Ford Transit and the FIAT Ducato as well as their Japane
75 Checkraiser : The Ram van was dumped because it was in serious need of a (costly) makeover. DC, instead, decided to import the Sprinter and sell it as a cut above t
76 Post contains images Don81603 : 4X4 are better, but only if you use the God given brains required for proper operations. 4 wheel drive will get you through the snow and ice far easi
77 Flight152 : The Mercedes models are built somewhere in Alabama, the BMW models built in North America are made in South Carolina. Considering the models you list
78 Post contains images Fbgdavidson : For those of you moaning about bad fuel consumption take a look at ZAS on the Mercedes S Class. It basically shuts off unnecessary cylinders so you ca
79 Lehpron : So if a customer is ignorant to what is best for them, are they doomed by their own wants/desires at that particular point? Where does the responsibi
80 Melpax : You're not wrong there! Also, most 3 series & C-Class models sold here are made in South Africa, not in Stuttgart or Munich! Funnily enough, the vers
81 JJJ : A friend of mine in Dallas moved from an E-class to a V8 Phaeton he bought for a ridiculous price (20-something). He's more than satisfied with the m
82 StealthZ : And for a time* the Jeep Grand Cherokee sold in Australia and other export markets was built in Austria.... ah Globalisation. * Possibly still is, ju
83 Melpax : That's still the case. Chrysler 300C's sold here are also made in Austria.
84 DeltaDC9 : This is the case now, that is why large companies have a staff to review logs, check hubometers, monitor gps logs, and for a certian big 4 moving and
85 Post contains images Superfly : How about getting your figures correct before jumping in to the discussion. The import models I listed gets LESS mileage than the American cars I men
86 MD11Engineer : Same problem in Germany, though here it is mostly trucking companies from easter Europe, which break the regulations (and by underbidding the prices,
87 DeltaDC9 : Dude, I worked for a certain moving and storage company you would easily recognise for 5 years and met my wife there who's job it was to review and s
88 Post contains images Superfly : My world view? No, you're just incorrect. I trust Checkraiser's comments (#67) to be more accurate. Also, I know a few truckers (local and long-range
89 DeltaDC9 : You have no idea how sheltered you obviously are on the subject. I will leave it at that.
90 Post contains links and images Superfly : Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 89): You have no idea how sheltered you obviously are on the subject. I will leave it at that. If that's the best you can do t
91 Flight152 : Actually I used published EPA figures, just like you did for the above listed imports.
92 Superfly : Um, OK but the 300C gets 25 highway and the SRT8 model gets 21. Anyhow, my point is that import brands have a fairshare of gas-guzzlers but have an i
93 DeltaDC9 : I gave you the facts based on a lifetime of observation of some of the biggest fleets in the US, if you choose to disregard that, that is your peroga
94 Superfly : DeltaDC9: Not denying that has ever happened. What would you recommend as a solution to this problem? We can't just have a railroad track feed in to e
95 DeltaDC9 : The problem is two fold, one drug tests can be beat, and two, driver teams are a thing of the past due to costs. This creates a scanario where you ha
96 Post contains images Fbgdavidson : 200hp from a 3.8 litre is still pretty woeful. A Mustang could use a 'high revving toy engine' not much different to that from a Civic...ever heard o
97 Superfly : You've got to be kidding. My former neighbor let my take his Honda S2000 for a spin. What a joke of a sports car. It has no low-end what so ever. A r
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