MNeo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1 Posted (5 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1419 times:
"President Bush has signed a directive granting extraordinary powers to the office of the president in the event of a declared national emergency, apparently without congressional approval or oversight."
This new directive is supposed to give Bush and an advisor full powers during a Catastrophic emergency (any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions)
Does anyone else think that 1. This is wrong and the definition is written to vaguely to have a strict meaning. and 2. Does this not remind people of how Hitler took power ( by using a democratic prosess to gain dictatorship status)
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3665 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1410 times:
Quoting MNeo (Thread starter):
Does anyone else think that 1. This is wrong and the definition is written to vaguely to have a strict meaning. and 2. Does this not remind people of how Hitler took power ( by using a democratic prosess to gain dictatorship status)
Well, I don't really see the point of this. Nor do I see such power ever being used. Is this to show that in case another big-ass disaster hits, he won't be leaving any of the work to his golf-buddies?
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8423 posts, RR: 16 Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1393 times:
Quoting Doona (Reply 2): Well, I don't really see the point of this. Nor do I see such power ever being used. Is this to show that in case another big-ass disaster hits, he won't be leaving any of the work to his golf-buddies?
Couldn't have said it any better. He'll just use that nice white phone of his to do that. He might go make public announcements stating his goals but the orders will come from via phone.
MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1360 times:
What? The POTUS can declare martial law? NO WAI!!?!?!?!?!
Uh, welcome to the 1860s.
BTW:
Quoting MNeo (Thread starter): and 2. Does this not remind people of how Hitler took power ( by using a democratic prosess to gain dictatorship status)
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11686 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1306 times:
President Lincoln served during the entirety of the US Civil War and had similar powers and was seen by many as a dictator, although it was justifiable. The enemy CSA was only a few miles from and partially surrounded Washington, DC so their was a real danger and a need for direct powers. FDR also attempted to use and did at times use extraordinary powers of his office to deal with the huge economic crises of the Depression and the prosecution of WW II. However, some of FDR's actions were cut off by congress and the Supreme Court when he went too far.
Many would say that in the age or terror we now or may face within the USA, that such powers may be necessary in case of a major attack that killed many 1000's - including a 9/11 level event or far worse. Then you have the need in case of a major and multi-state natural disaster to have the Federal executive exercises powers over local governments (think Hurricane Katrina, Mt. St. Helens volcano, etc).
The problem here is that any President, could declare an 'emergency' and their could be little the rest of our government could do about it. Any President could also selectively and dangerously use such powers such as President Bush has already done as to 'enemy combantants'. While we have limits in our governmental system unlike Venezuela as to Chavez, we are getting way too close to my comfort to such a situation.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1292 times:
Quoting MNeo (Thread starter): Does anyone else think that 1. This is wrong and the definition is written to vaguely to have a strict meaning. and 2. Does this not remind people of how Hitler took power ( by using a democratic prosess to gain dictatorship status)
There were similar policies in place in the 50s and 60s when it was feared a Soviet nuclear attack could arrive anytime. Now the danger is from a terrorist attack, and this policy is aimed specifically at what happens if a nuke goes off in Washington DC and kills off a part of the government. The President (or the person legally empowered to take over as president if the President himself is a victim) has the authority to make sure that government continues to govern.
I see this as nothing more than solid contingency planning, nothing more. I'd be shocked if they did not have this already in place, in some earlier, less developed form.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 16475 posts, RR: 62 Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1218 times:
I'm quite sure that Dictator Pelosi will take great care of us if anything adverse happened to the President and Vice-President during a disaster. Glad to see so many lending her that support.
BHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1161 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8): I'm quite sure that Dictator Pelosi will take great care of us if anything adverse happened to the President and Vice-President during a disaster. Glad to see so many lending her that support.
Right wing zealot!
I never thought I'd have the chance to call our Queen by this name.
Asuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1102 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5): President Lincoln served during the entirety of the US Civil War and had similar powers and was seen by many as a dictator, although it was justifiable.
When I saw this thread title, I immedialty thought of Lincoln and you beat me to it! Just to expand on it, Lincoln arrested the secessionist members of the legislature so they couldn't vote to secede. He even went so far as suspending habeus corpus when he had them in custody.
This is not new. The precedent was set - ahhhh, 150 years ago?
Sorry . . .
must be a slow news day for all of the conspiracy freaks. Continuity of Operations (COOP) planning and exercises are a fact of life in government, and no big deal.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16221 posts, RR: 57 Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1052 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
Funny, I thought that FEMA was going to be the dictatorship during a National Emergency? At least that's what the foil hatted types have been saying with their "list" of "FEMA Concentrate Camp Sites" (some of which are nothing but empty land in the middle of nowhere or were former WWII P.O.W. camps that are in extreme states of disrepair) and reports of FEMA prison cars that are being built in China and stored on "abandoned" rail lines in rural parts of Montana and other Western States.
Hello Airplanes? Yeah, it's Blimps. You win, bye....
Futurecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1033 times:
Quoting MNeo (Thread starter): apparently without congressional approval or oversight."
But Bush, like every president, will have the oversight of the people of the US. The smart people who wrote the constitution made sure the US would not turn into a dictatorship, too many weapons in the hands of the people.
ATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1902 posts, RR: 48 Reply 15, posted (5 years 21 hours ago) and read 906 times:
Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 14): But Bush, like every president, will have the oversight of the people of the US. The smart people who wrote the constitution made sure the US would not turn into a dictatorship, too many weapons in the hands of the people.
Amen brother. Anywho I support my commander in chief.
ATCT
Real pilots fly planes that take and measure oil in gallons
RJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 853 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5): The problem here is that any President, could declare an 'emergency' and their could be little the rest of our government could do about it.
That is possible only if you have a military that is disposed to "obey" the President even though they know what they are doing is wrong. I have a lot more faith in our military than you evidently do.
Blackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 798 times:
This strikes me as a disaster waiting to happen. We need to spread this around to make as many people aware of this as possible. This is terrifying. The last thing we need is a guy like Bush with unlimited power.
BTW: If I read the last part of the first link right, there are parts of the law that are actually classified! I understand the need for national security-- but it strikes me as kind of scary that various directives in the law passed are prohibited from the people from seeing. I always thought the government was supposed to be fairly transparent.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8423 posts, RR: 16 Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 767 times:
I speak on behalf of my family when I say this is the worse idea ever.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 747 times:
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 17): This strikes me as a disaster waiting to happen.
How, exactly? Please be specific. Do you think it would be a good idea if the government simply falls apart if a large part of the government were amputated? I admit, the idea does hold its appeal, but come on...
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7286 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 724 times:
The precedent was previously set and the various powers on display here can still be thrown out by Congress. That said, I the real irony here is that the Bush White House has brought this to the table again:
National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive
NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51
HOMELAND SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/HSPD-20
Subject: National Continuity Policy
(5) The following NEFs are the foundation for all continuity programs and capabilities and represent the overarching responsibilities of the Federal Government to lead and sustain the Nation during a crisis, and therefore sustaining the following NEFs shall be the primary focus of the Federal Government leadership during and in the aftermath of an emergency that adversely affects the performance of Government Functions:
...
(c) Defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and preventing or interdicting attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;
Would that be the Alberto Gonzales defense of the Constitution?
(f) Providing rapid and effective response to and recovery from the domestic consequences of an attack or other incident;
Such as massive Gulf coast hurricanes??
Give me a break...
[Edited 2007-05-27 14:52:16]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
Queso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 706 times:
Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 14): The smart people who wrote the constitution made sure the US would not turn into a dictatorship, too many weapons in the hands of the people.
Absolutely correct, thank you for reminding everyone of that. WE THE PEOPLE still have the last say about how this whole thing works, something very few other countries can ensure.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 702 times:
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 17): This strikes me as a disaster waiting to happen.
I guess you didn't read the part about this being nothing new . . . damn near every President has signed a similar document . . . and the precedent was set about 150 years ago . . . hmmmm?
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 682 times:
As has been said, nothing new here. I did notice stuff in there that stated the integrity of the Legislative and Judicial branches need to be kept in tact.
This sound like the kind of "castatrophe" that "nuclear war" falls under; when much of the government and it's leaders may have been killed, or are incommunicado due to a castastrophe. In that case, the nation has to go forward, doesn't it? If the President is alive, and cannot communicate with other leaders, he has to take the reins of government into his hands.
The only time I see something like this being ominous is if there's a terrorist attack or something, just before or after an election, and the President in power suspends all political activity, and, in effect, tries to nullify a presidential election. But the chances of that are very, very remote, as the American people wouldn't stand for it.
25 Blackbird: If I recall correctly, one of the reasons the law worried me was because of this part.... (quoted by myself) Andrea Kent
26 Blackbird: And lets' hope I don't disappear for saying what I said!
27 Joni: I may be on the wrong page here, but would this be the kind of decree-wielding that some have just criticized Hugo Chavez for?
28 ANCFlyer: Yup, you're definitely on the wrong page . . . not even reading the same book. You missed the part - also - that this is NOT news, that this has been
30 Aaron747: For the thousandth time, is it at all possible for you to make your comments without the histrionics? This "woe is me the MIB are coming because of w
31 Halls120: Do you really believe this self-seving crap you post?
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From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3665 posts, 
Just to expand on it, Lincoln arrested the secessionist members of the legislature so they couldn't vote to secede. He even went so far as suspending habeus corpus when he had them in custody.
must be a slow news day for all of the conspiracy freaks. Continuity of Operations (COOP) planning and exercises are a fact of life in government, and no big deal.
At least that's what the foil hatted types have been saying with their "list" of "FEMA Concentrate Camp Sites" (some of which are nothing but empty land in the middle of nowhere or were former WWII P.O.W. camps that are in extreme states of disrepair) and reports of FEMA prison cars that are being built in China and stored on "abandoned" rail lines in rural parts of Montana and other Western States.
From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7286 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
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