Marquis From Germany, joined Sep 2005, 262 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1190 times:
Quoting Andz (Reply 2): Yeah heaven forbid they become reliable, stylish and fun to drive.
I don't know which experiences you had with Volvo's, but mine were all great. We own our fourth (autumn this year the 5th one will join the family) Volvo now and never had a single unscheduled stopover at the dealer's garage. Perfectly reliable and stylish cars and they are even fun to drive in my humble opinion.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1128 times:
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4):
3. And Volvo makes some of the best-looking cars on the market. BMW could stand to learn a thing or two (or three) from Volvo about design.
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4):
1. Ever since the S40 era, their previous issues with reliability are no longer present
Totally agree. I wish BMW would Volvo's ride and implement it on their 7 series. But we'll see what happens.
Flight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3292 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1117 times:
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4): And Volvo makes some of the best-looking cars on the market. BMW could stand to learn a thing or two (or three) from Volvo about design.
Completely subjunctive. Volvo's are still boring, have you seen the new S80? ZzZZzZZ
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6): Totally agree. I wish BMW would Volvo's ride and implement it on their 7 series. But we'll see what happens.
Volvo's FWD forward bias weight induces torque steer, mushy suspensions, and non linear steering. BMW's handling (among other reasons) actually sells cars, its a good thing you don't work for BMW.
Aerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4634 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1111 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 7): Volvo's FWD forward bias weight induces torque steer, mushy suspensions, and non linear steering. BMW's handling (among other reasons) actually sells cars, its a good thing you don't work for BMW.
Forward weight bias does not induce torque steer - unequal length half-shafts do, weight bias effects polar moments of inertia and brake balance. Mushy suspensions can be had in fwd, awd, or rwd vehicles - it's all up to how the engineers design the stiffness in the springs, shocks, bushing and sway bars. Weight bias has no input on steering feel, other factors inherent to the steering system do.
Most people who own BMW's never approach the handling limits of the car, thus they have no clue how well they handle, therefore they don't buy them for that reason. I however, bought my 335i, cuz it kicks some serious ass in a luxurious way.
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1110 times:
I love Volvo (have a C70 cabrio) and I think BMW is much better for them as Ford. Altought the design has really improved now. I love the C30 and the XC60 concept !
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1086 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 7): BMW's handling (among other reasons) actually sells cars, its a good thing you don't work for BMW.
I wish BMW would solve some stiff issues with the 7 series.
I think you mean subjective, and I partly agree with you. There are some things, however, which are not debatable about car design. The entire Aston Martin range, for example.
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 7): Volvo's are still boring, have you seen the new S80?
Come on, just look at it. The way that sculpted hood line follows the length of the car; the way the headlights curve up and sweep back - Shazam!
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
CupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 831 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1063 times:
In fact BMW could buy Ford Motor Company in conjustion with the KKRs of this world.
BMW keeps Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Volvo. KKR and their razor gang machetes its way through the Ford brand (close at least 3/4 of the US plants) back to profitability
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
Zone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1051 times:
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4): 3. And Volvo makes some of the best-looking cars on the market. BMW could stand to learn a thing or two (or three) from Volvo about design.
I don't know. Most of the new Volvo designs take some ideas from Bangle's designs. The S80 has the Bangle butt that everyone loves to hate. I personally don't mind his designs, and think the toned down 7 series is dumb looking.
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1049 times:
Quoting Marquis (Reply 3): I don't know which experiences you had with Volvo's, but mine were all great. We own our fourth (autumn this year the 5th one will join the family) Volvo now and never had a single unscheduled stopover at the dealer's garage. Perfectly reliable and stylish cars and they are even fun to drive in my humble opinion.
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4): 1. Ever since the S40 era, their previous issues with reliability are no longer present
Apart from the S80, Volvo reliability ratings are very poor.
Marquis From Germany, joined Sep 2005, 262 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1041 times:
Quoting Zone1 (Reply 15): Most of the new Volvo designs take some ideas from Bangle's designs. The S80 has the Bangle butt that everyone loves to hate.
Sorry, but I can't see any similarities between Volvo's and Chris Bangle's very distinctive designs. The first S80 already had the same shaped rear end like the current model has got.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 986 times:
Quoting Marquis (Reply 1): In case BMW should opt for a Volvo takeover I desperately hope that Volvo's virtues and values will retain the same.
In many ways, the two companies have very similar values. BMW has always placed a strong emphasis on safety, producing some of the safest models ever built. Further, both have always operated within their own niche, without compromising for the sake of fad.
Quoting Andz (Reply 2):
Yeah heaven forbid they become reliable, stylish and fun to drive.
Volvos have always been reliable, became stylish in the late 1990s and can be very fun to drive
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4): And Volvo makes some of the best-looking cars on the market.
And designed in my home town.
Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 8): I however, bought my 335i, cuz it kicks some serious ass in a luxurious way
Not to mention having proper BMW power, an inline 6
Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 14): In fact BMW could buy Ford Motor Company in conjustion with the KKRs of this world.
That wouldn't be BMW's style. BMW's policy has been to remain beholden to no one so they are able to operate as they so wish. If BMW were beholden to a group like KKR or similar, they would likely be churning out POS FWD V6s by now.
Quoting Molykote (Reply 16): Volvo reliability ratings are very poor.
And Consumer Reports needs to be taken with a grain of salt
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2471 posts, RR: 31 Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 968 times:
Quoting Andz (Reply 2):
Yeah heaven forbid they become reliable, stylish and fun to drive.
HAHA, so true! My sister owns a Volvo S60R- which is supposed to be their most sporty, performance oriented car. I like the quality of the interior materials, and layout of the cabin. But... when it comes to driving dynamics, the car is a bust. Great pickup once you're moving. But there's no soul. No connection. I call her car "the brick" because thats what it feels like when you drive it.
I am all for a BMW takeover... Volvo reliability with BMW driving dymanics. You might have the biggest winner ever.
CupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 831 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 945 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 18): Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 14):
In fact BMW could buy Ford Motor Company in conjustion with the KKRs of this world.
That wouldn't be BMW's style. BMW's policy has been to remain beholden to no one so they are able to operate as they so wish. If BMW were beholden to a group like KKR or similar, they would likely be churning out POS FWD V6s by now.
What I was suggesting was that KKR manage the "traditional blue oval" Ford brands. BMW would only be involved with P.A.G. companies
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 922 times:
Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 20):
What I was suggesting was that KKR manage the "traditional blue oval" Ford brands. BMW would only be involved with P.A.G. companies
BMW would still be beholden to KKR in some way, even if as part of a partnership. VW may be able to get away with the fact that Porsche has the ability to pull a few strings simply because they are so big but BMW thrives on its independence.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
LYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 900 times:
Quoting Marquis (Reply 3): Volvo now and never had a single unscheduled stopover at the dealer's garage. Perfectly reliable and stylish cars and they are even fun to drive in my humble opinion
I can vouch for that! I love Volvo, and Saab too for that matter
Quoting AC773 (Reply 4): Volvo makes some of the best-looking cars on the market. BMW could stand to learn a thing or two (or three) from Volvo about design.
Completely agree! Some bmws driving around today are some of the ugliest cars you can get. Others are ok, but I prefer the 90's 7-series and 5-series.
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 891 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 18): Quoting Molykote (Reply 16):
Volvo reliability ratings are very poor.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 18): And Consumer Reports needs to be taken with a grain of salt
You correctly assume that I've used CR reliability data as at least a large portion of the basis for my claim. To boot, my Volvo owning friends and associates have had poor experiences with Volvo reliability (although I didn't mention this as it's not the primary basis for my claim and I don't care to present anecdotal evidence as meaningful in this discussion).
However, are you disputing my claim that the reliability of modern Volvos is (as a whole) pretty poor?
The CR reliability data is an excellent resource for owners who do not partake in their own maintenance and is a very good resource for owners like myself who perform about 80% of their own maintenance (and are aware of common problems with their vehicle). Owners like myself (and perhaps yourself) may care to read between the lines of certain system reliability ratings of some cars based upon our deeper knowledge of a specific vehicle(s).
Given that most people do not perform their own maintenance (particularly on higher end cars), most owners have little interest in reading beyond this data in a way that you or I might.
For all the faults of Consumer Reports, I am aware of no better centralized and widely accessible database of car reliability data. For specific models, R&T's "Used Car Classic" features contain great information (but are limited to a very small handful of used cars). Likewise, enthusiast user forums provide great information but generally operate independently from group to group (i.e. miata.net) and thus lack a cohesive presentation format and data bank.
Do you have a better source of easily accessible reliability data for such a wide variety of cars (to the average buyer)?
If you don't, I see no value added to this discussion from your comment (at least within the scope of this thread).
After expanding upon my statement above, I should say that I generally agree with you (and have probably made a statement like the one below on more than one occasion). A New Car Pontiac G6? (by Aaden Jan 20 2007 in Non Aviation)#1
Where I stated:
I am no fan of Consumer Reports myself. With regard to automobiles, the only insightful information provided by Consumer Reports is the reliability data for used cars (and even this, like all statistical data, requires effective interpretation by the reader).
However, are you disputing my claim that the reliability of modern Volvos is (as a whole) pretty poor?
The question is what kind of reliability and longevity are we talking about? Is this door handles and switches, which are annoying but don't really have much to do with the ability to drive the car or are we talking about drivetrain and safety?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Molykote: Most of the problem areas for current and late model Volvos involve major (or at least expensive components): - problems related to the AWD system (l
26 AC773: And I suppose none of the Audis, BMWs, and Mercs in that price range have any of those problems? I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not bothere
27 HeliflyerPDC: I drive a V50, and I have to say it is a great car, practical, looks very nice, handles perfect ,......... I went to BMW, but I found that their inter
28 Molykote: I never said that higher end German cars were immune to these types of problems. My only point was to suggest that Volvos are closer to the reliabili
29 AC773: Has anyone said anything to the contrary? If buying a car is a business decision, then yes, there is little reason to purchase a Volvo. Personally, t
30 Molykote: No, but rolling your eyes in response to my earlier comment served what purpose exactly? Perhaps I missed something. What were you suggesting? If a V
31 Jetstar: In my area of Southwestern Connecticut, Volvo’s are very popular. I own 2 Volvo’s, a 2004 S-80 T5 AWD and a 2002 XC-70 wagon. I have also owned a
32 DeltaDC9: Fords main benifit of buying Volvo remains, the stability control system they need to meet the new regulations coming into effect that require it all
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