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30 Months For Scooter Libby  
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

Quoting http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/05/cia.leak.trial/index.html:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was sentenced Tuesday to 30 months in prison for lying to investigators about what he told reporters about CIA operative Valerie Plame, whose name was leaked to the media in 2003.

He also was fined $250,000. Libby was convicted March 6 of four counts in a five-count indictment alleging perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to FBI investigators. He plans to appeal the verdict.

He had the choice to tell the truth or lie under oath, and the judge handed his ass to him.


International Homo of Mystery
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Today several of the pundits were predicting that Bush would pardon him but only toward the end of his term. That would mean he might be spending the next year and a half in the big house. Don't know whether he'll be able to stay out of jail during the appeal process.

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

As I said in the other thread:
The jail sentence will increase pressure on President Bush to pardon Libby, especially if he is denied bail (in which case he will be heading to jail in a matter of weeks).

I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice. Your thoughts?


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9411 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

Ah. Such a trend this will start.

Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed, only outlaws will maliciously leak secrets while fabricating bogus pretext for wars of paranoid aggression.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 3):
Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed

Again, it is clear from the court proceedings and from everything that came out that Libby was the person who leaked Valerie Plame's name. That would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. Why aren't they on trial?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1256 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers

The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 1):
Today several of the pundits were predicting that Bush would pardon him but only toward the end of his term. That would mean he might be spending the next year and a half in the big house.

 thumbsdown  Not that there's much that looks good for GWB right now, but this would make his image worse.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice.

 checkmark  Like Westy said, Libby has his faults in this. I wonder, though, what would happen if somehow Rove went to prison - and the President didn't pardon him (wouldn't happen, but still, nice to contemplate).  scratchchin  It wouldn't do much of anything, except give Bush one last prop on his way out the door.

-R


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice. Your thoughts?

Are you sitting down RJ?

I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?

Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September. The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9411 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.

looks like Dont Ask Dont Tell Policy may soon receive a major overhaul.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 3):
Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed

Um, that's not why he is going to jail. As Westy noted, and a careful read shows, Libby did not leak the name. He was convicted of perjury.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1202 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September. The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.

Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it? That is why I used the term "prime" although I have to confess I have no idea how complex the story really was, just more complex than RA feeling like a leak as they say!


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1174 times:

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wanted to put Libby in prison for up to three years because the investigation he was convicted of obstructing—the leak of a CIA operative's identity—was so serious.

So now the Judge is ruling on whether the prosecutor had enough to try someone on a case never brought before him? And comparing this to a murder investigation?

But if it was so serious, why was Richard Armitage (the real leaker) never charged? He was never even subpeonaed, either by the Libby court or by the Congress during their Plame hearings.

According to the law, Plame's identity was only classified until 2002 (for 5 years after her last foreign trip undercover was in 1997), and the leaks happened in 2003.

Something stinks inside the Beltway...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIN78O0&show_article=1


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9411 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1165 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 11):

if i add the line "support executive branch carte blanche" will that help you understand the tongue in cheekness a little bit more?



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6609 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1152 times:
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take a look at some of the letters sent to the judge.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/politics/4863456.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0605071libby1.html

Letters sent by Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Henry Kissinger, John R. Bolton..

[Edited 2007-06-05 20:51:49]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Why aren't they on trial?

Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1119 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Why aren't they on trial?

Because per the referenced letter from the prosecutor dated January 6, 2006, there has not been a determination whether the leaking of her name was a crime. The only issue discussed and what he was convicted of was perjury.

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/plame/files/show_case_doc-2.pdf

See top of page #8.


User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1068 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
According to the law, Plame's identity was only classified until 2002 (for 5 years after her last foreign trip undercover was in 1997), and the leaks happened in 2003.

This is a big fat lie that has been propagated by the right wing noise machine. Last Tuesday, May 29, NBC news and other media outlets reported, again, that according to CIA employment records Valerie Plame was covert all the way up to July 2003 when she was publicly outed.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

I took some time earlier tonight to read through many of the letters written to the Court on behalf of Scooter Libby (see Reply 14). After reading them, I am even more convinced that the American people have lost a truly great public servant. Contrary to press reports, he was not a super-partisan political hit man. He was an incredibly intelligent family-man who believed in public service and doing good for his country. In my honest opinion, our country can not afford to lose public servants like him.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.

Perhaps. I guess we'll never know what was going through Libby's head. I personally find his story plausible--that he was dealing with thousands of pages of information a day and could not recall specific conversations/events from that long ago. If I was questioned under oath about conversations I had three years ago, I'd probably be convicted of perjury too. And I'm just a college student. Imagine being the Vice President's Chief-of-Staff and National Security Adviser. Libby was dealing with 14 to 16 hour days, and literally endless reports coming into his office. Talking to journalists regularly was part of his job too...So I find it easy to believe that he wouldn't remember a specific conversation he had with a reporter three years ago.

Btw, keep in mind that Libby was Yale-educated and Columbia Law-trained...He was a very successful lawyer for some years. He would not intentionally perjure himself.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?

From everything I have read, yes. Armitage originally leaked it, and Karl Rove was the second source that confirmed it. When Robert Novak's original column mentioned two high-ranking government officials, it was referring to Armitage and Rove.

The best article I have read summarizing what transpired can be found here:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm...arymagazine.content.Article::10870

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September.

Not only that...Once Armitage realized that he was the source Novak referred to in the column, he told his boss Colin Powell and they immediately contacted the FBI to let them know of the non-intentional leak. Ironically, because the White House vowed not to interfere in the investigation, it did not pry to find out more information when the State Department informed the White House that it had disclosed information regarding the leak to the FBI. Perhaps if it had, the whole "special investigator" witch-hunt would never have occurred.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.

I don't think that has anything to do with this. All of this transpired many months ago already. What do you think the connection between this and the U.S. attorney scandal is?

Almost as soon as the investigation began, the special prosecutor knew that Armitage was the source of the original leak (unintentionally, but still the original leak) because Armitage had contacted the FBI. I don't know how exactly it came out that Rove was the second source though, but clearly Fitzgerald knew who both the sources were and chose not to charge either of them. And Robert Novak, who chose to write a column outing a CIA agent, has also gotten away with this injustice.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it?

No. Armitage was very much a straight-shooter in the first Bush administration. Colin Powell and Armitage are best-friends going back many years, and both view international relations in similar ways. When Novak announced that his source was "no partisan gun-slinger," Armitage realized that Novak was referring to him and that was when he contacted the FBI.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.

Doubt it. The "special investigation" is over. One would think there would be more of an outcry from the American people that the person who ACTUALLY leaked the name went unpunished.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.

That's the whole point. The prosecution could not convince a grand jury that any actual crime had been committed, apart for Scooter Libby either lying or simply making mistaken statements about something that was agreed to be not a crime?

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 18):
This is a big fat lie that has been propagated by the right wing noise machine. Last Tuesday, May 29, NBC news and other media outlets reported, again, that according to CIA employment records Valerie Plame was covert all the way up to July 2003 when she was publicly outed.

According to Joe Wilson's book, the last time Plame travelled covertly, or assumed an assumed name for cover, was 1997. The security cap on her covertness expires 5 years after that, unless Plame was using active measures to avoid her discovery, which she was not. He was routinly introduced at social finctions by here husband as, "My Wife, the CIA spy."

Anyway the subject is moot. Nobody was ever charged with outing Plame.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1030 times:

Scooter goes to jail and charges against Salim Hamdan dropped. Oh the irony...   Big grin

Send him to Camp Delta. There's soon to be a vacancy.

[Edited 2007-06-06 06:47:44]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1002 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it?

No. Armitage was very much a straight-shooter in the first Bush administration. Colin Powell and Armitage are best-friends going back many years, and both view international relations in similar ways.

Was the "No" in response to the "Aha, I must leak today" concept or the "doing what he was told to do" possibility?  Smile

OK Powell and Armitage friends going back for yonks, that I understand. What possessed Armitage, with some of his background in diplomacy, to unbutton so suddenly? Or are you saying he was he leaking all the time? I am puzzled.  Confused

I think I will go away and think about something simple like why they set up a commission to try unlawful combatants, and then failed to classify any of the Gitmo inhabitants as u c's. And what does it mean that Hicks pleaded guilty to a crime he could not have committed, because he was not of the group that is "allowed" to commit this type of crime. All too too much.  no   mad   mad   irked   laughing   mad 


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 977 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
Was the "No" in response to the "Aha, I must leak today" concept or the "doing what he was told to do" possibility?

Both.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
What possessed Armitage, with some of his background in diplomacy, to unbutton so suddenly? Or are you saying he was he leaking all the time? I am puzzled.

As far as I know, it was not intentional. I don't think he knew she was a covert agent, or thought that so many people knew that he assumed Novak would (every reporter in DC seems to have known she was a CIA agent...). Once he saw the article and figured out that he was the source Novak was referring to, he immediately told Powell and they contacted the FBI.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 967 times:

Ms. Palme's life was ruined, she could no longer work at the CIA. While no longer a field agent, she was doing valuable work at the CIA developing and assembling intellegence as to (ironicaly) WMD's. With her probably illegal outing of her as a CIA operative by WH people, some of her valuable contacts in her work were put at risk or no longer usable. That puts the USA, it's soldiers or it's interests outside the USA at greater risk of a WMD attack as well as the development of WMD's by countries like Iran and groups like al Queda.

Is a sentence of 30 months enough for the possible deaths, risks to the USA and so on triggered by Ms. Palme's outing?

Basicaly Libby was given a serious penalty for his lying. Pending an appeal in the next several months, I suspect that he will be free on bail, but he will have no income. I do think his license to practice law should be suspended for years (that was done on Pres. Bill Clinton for his lying). I also hope in an effort to reduce his sentence he rats on the others in the WH as to the Palme outing and they face trial.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 961 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 23):
I also hope in an effort to reduce his sentence he rats on the others in the WH as to the Palme outing and they face trial.

When will people realize that there was NO GRAND CONSPIRACY to oust her?! The whole thing went so far because the White House tried to remain neutral instead of figuring out immediately who had leaked her name (Richard Armitage; had the State Department communicated this to the White House immediately, there would have been no investigation).


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 25, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 950 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
I personally find his story plausible--that he was dealing with thousands of pages of information a day and could not recall specific conversations/events from that long ago.

This is the part that I find highly irregular. Any professional with any liability keeps notes from any conversation they have with someone outside their circle on topics which could come back to haunt them. When I left my trading position, I kept all of my memo books of notes I made during conversations I had with customers for the six year period there would have been any liability. I didn't bother to take notes of conversations with other brokers unless there was a strategy being discussed.

A few people I know have studied shorthand, and you can go to them after a meeting and they'll tell you word for word what the important parts of what you said were. I've no sympathy for someone who leaves himself open to liability.

For someone in Libby's position not to be able to recall what he said in this context is pick one: Stupid or Stupid. That's why he's going to be sitting in a cell soon.



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