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Iraqis Finding Their Way?  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Ok, look at the video link posted half-way down the article:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/07/petraeus.iraq/index.html

Never mind the article itself (sounds like a merit-grabbing article), looks like Iraqis are rejecting Al-Qaeda and finally rebelling against them, and more importantly - publicly too. This is very good news, even if it's still early on. And IMO is the best thing to happen - Iraqis take control and make decisions, even if they make mistakes, they'll learn and evolve.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1119 times:

Another good read on some of the ongoings along the line of this thread. Thier is some positive news.


http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/the-final-option.htm



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20671 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

Okay, so someone needs to explain something to me. "Iraqi insurgents", previously aligned with Al-Qaeda against the coalition forces, are now teaming up with the coalition to oppose the infiltration of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. What happens if/when they rid Al-Qaeda from Iraq? Turn against the coalition again?


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

They were talking about this on CNN this morning too. It was also mentioned that the Army is giving them weapons too. I hope it doesn't turn out to bite us in the ass later on, like supporting Saddam in the 80s, and the Mujahideen (sp?) which spawned AQ.


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

American intervention in the ME is generally foolish and counterproductive, but give credit where it is due.

If some Iraqis are waking up to the fact that they alone will determine whether they transform into a peaceful self governing Islamic nation or rather end up an anarchy state run by maniacal warlords in the grand tradition of Djibouti/Sudan/Afghanistan/Somalia, great.

JFK said about Vietnam: only the Vietnamese can win it or lose it, regardless of what the Americans want or do. The same is true in Iraq.

Cairo


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 4):
If some Iraqis are waking up to the fact that they alone will determine whether they transform into a peaceful self governing Islamic nation or rather end up an anarchy state run by maniacal warlords in the grand tradition of Djibouti/Sudan/Afghanistan/Somalia, great.

It has been said that the Iraqi first efforts once the coalition leave will be to sort out the imported varieties of insurgents, it is probably unwise to lump them all under Al Q. It was noted a long time ago that OBL was worried about Zarkawis tactics because the was killing too many Iraqis.

I am not sure what tactics can be used to encourage this while the Coalition of the Willing (COW) are still there, but they had best find one quickly.

Good news, but predictable. Now how to stop the fighting within the Iraqi factions!


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1020 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
"Iraqi insurgents", previously aligned with Al-Qaeda against the coalition forces, are now teaming up with the coalition to oppose the infiltration of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. What happens if/when they rid Al-Qaeda from Iraq? Turn against the coalition again?

-
Which "insurgents" ? They are not a single movement, but at least six completely different movements.
-
"el Qaeda" ? I suppose you mean this "el Qaeda Iraq" franchisee which is trading under the elQaeda name .
-
what in fact unites most people in Iraq of course is the wish to get rid of the occupationers
-
another aspect is that many regional "strongmen" are angered by "el Qaeda" and similar groups meddling in their regional / local affairs, so that for them, co-operating with the occupation-troops for a while really makes sense
-


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
Okay, so someone needs to explain something to me. "Iraqi insurgents", previously aligned with Al-Qaeda against the coalition forces, are now teaming up with the coalition to oppose the infiltration of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. What happens if/when they rid Al-Qaeda from Iraq? Turn against the coalition again?

In my humble opinion, if the USA slowly withdrew into bases and/or slowly removed soldiers from Iraq, it could speed up this A. Q.-rejection process (by exposing them more to A.Q.'s despicable values). It shows the insurgents some progress and give them less reason to attack the U.S. versus A. Q..

Would they turn against the coalition again? Entirely possible, but I'd say its possible to have them on the U.S.'s side - show them progress in the form of (in my view) less of an American footprint in Iraq.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 4):
JFK said about Vietnam: only the Vietnamese can win it or lose it, regardless of what the Americans want or do. The same is true in Iraq.

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
Now how to stop the fighting within the Iraqi factions!

Here's hoping perhaps this will cause them to unite against A. Q. and, in the end, find out they are not so different after all!  Smile



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1007 times:

I think I read a report stating the nationalist insurgent groups of the Islamic Army in Iraq and the Revolution 1920 Brigades have openly condemned Al-Qaida in Iraq and have fought battles with them. Anyone have a link?

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 995 times:

This is from a "right wing" think tank website called the strategypage. I hesitate to put a link here for it because of the number of left wing people on this site, but it does give some food for thought even if they do have bias. I originally opposed this war but now I am thinking maybe we should let the surge run its course --- so I guess that makes me the only person in the world to originally oppose but now support this war. The only thing now that I care about are the Iraqi people because they have suffered enough even if much of it has been at their own hands.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20070606.aspx


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9384 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 987 times:

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 9):
I originally opposed this war but now I am thinking maybe we should let the surge run its course --- so I guess that makes me the only person in the world to originally oppose but now support this war. The only thing now that I care about are the Iraqi people because they have suffered enough even if much of it has been at their own hands.

I'm with ya on all of this, but at the same time, this war is pretty much going under the idea of "the U.S. broke it, and now we bought it."



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 980 times:

Here's a second and even longer video:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/07/penhaul.iraq/index.html

Scroll down to the second video link, titled "A Marriage of Convenience"



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 936 times:

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 8):
I think I read a report stating the nationalist insurgent groups of the Islamic Army in Iraq and the Revolution 1920 Brigades have openly condemned Al-Qaida in Iraq and have fought battles with them. Anyone have a link?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6714713.stm
Rival Sunni groups clash in Iraq
And of course full coverage is usually found at
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...40-AC30-41D2-BDC9-06BBE2A36665.htm
Nothing today, because that issue is not current.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 9):
This is from a "right wing" think tank website called the strategypage.

You could have done better than that link, there are others that explain that Abu Graib was pretty much OK, because Al Qaeda have a manual on torture TOO!!

But getting to the more serious side of it. What PPVRA proposes

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
Would they turn against the coalition again? Entirely possible, but I'd say its possible to have them on the U.S.'s side - show them progress in the form of (in my view) less of an American footprint in Iraq.

might well turn out to be US policy after September, when one way or another, the surge will be pronounced not to be an entire and runaway success and a withdrawal starts - well I just cannot see a further surge in political terms whatever the military indicators might be.


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 930 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
And IMO is the best thing to happen - Iraqis take control and make decisions, even if they make mistakes, they'll learn and evolve.

Couldn't agree with you more. I can't speak for the folks currently serving over there, but I right here have a sick taste in my mouth about the attitudes of the Iraqis who haven't been willing to make it happen for their own country (not to say there aren't any, but it certainly isn't prevailing).

-R


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