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British Should Be Proud Of Their Troops!  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Not saying that the British people are not proud of their warriors , but take a read of the "Death Or Glory" dispatches on this link. (Part 1 and 2)

Outstanding !


http://www.michaelyon-online.com/rss2.php


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Outstanding !

Yes, thanks for that, i'm still reading it  Smile

It's a very well documented story about what we are actually doing out there in Iraq.

It's a tough job.....



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 1):
It's a very well documented story about what we are actually doing out there in Iraq.

Won't see it on the Beeb, or CNN will we?

Unfortunately.

Frackin' media.

Well done to the British Troopers . . .


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

T'is why they are the best in the world  Smile


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):

Won't see it on the Beeb, or CNN will we?

Unfortunately.

Frackin' media.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4770954.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5325810.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3847051.stm

A 2 minute search on the BBC and their coverage of the troops in Iraq. Since the start of the war, through the 'end of the war' to the present day I haven't seen the BBC criticise troops on the ground without warrant.

ITN on the other hand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6115300.stm


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3909 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Won't see it on the Beeb, or CNN will we?

Not an evening goes by without a mention of either Iraq or Afghanistan on the BBC News at 6, and frequently there are in depth reports detailing the day to day lives and actions of troops on the ground.

This notion of all good news about either war being censored on the BBC is a fallacy.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 3):
T'is why they are the best in the world

Some of the American guys would beg to differ on this I'm sure (after reading a couple of profiles)  Wink


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 6):
Some of the American guys would beg to differ on this I'm sure (after reading a couple of profiles) Wink

The only culprits of "FRIENDLY FIRE!"?  Yeah sure



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
The only culprits of "FRIENDLY FIRE!"?

Easy killer. That's no joking matter, no matter which uniform you wear, and I do take exception to the implication.

Especially coming from someone without the nads to wear a uniform in combat.

 irked 


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

This guy certainly has balls to do these reports, hardly sitting in a hotel in the Green Zone is he?

To be fair, the BBC has run numerous reports, up close and personal, with British (and often US) troops.
In Afghanistan, one reporter in particular, Alistair Leithhead, has done reports in field with in some cases, only the protection and support of a bunch of troops in their armed Land-Rovers, in the thick of battle.
While he did not shy away from addressing the controversies of this war, he was wholehearted in his admiration for the troops.

Highly dangerous, and consider just how many reporters have been killed in the last few years, including those captured and murdered by insurgents.

The BBC and others, have also been quick to use the now famous mobile phone footage from the troops themselves, particularly in the intense battles around Sangin in Afghanistan last year, (aka 'Rourkes Drift').

But it's not always wise to compare reportage now, than with previous conflicts.
A lot in the media here with the 25 year anniversary of the Falklands War, there a mix of limited technology and a heavy hand on reporters, meant that much of it was unseen, what was, took time to get to news items.
Consider the possible effects on this more 'popular' war had today's technology been available, fierce hand to hand fighting, including bayonets, on your prime time news programmes, now the ferocity and nature of the fighting was reported, it did not have the impact of visual imagery.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 6):
Some of the American guys would beg to differ on this I'm sure (after reading a couple of profiles)

I doubt that , I believe combat soldiers know the deal ( I am not one). As a citizen of a country IMO you have the right to claim your guys are the best like Gkirk did . I also happen to believe his pride is not unfounded in fact.

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
This guy certainly has balls to do these reports, hardly sitting in a hotel in the Green Zone is he?

If you read his stuff often you will see how he has to go to some pretty extreme ends in order to not get relegated to the green zone. He avoids the press pack and makes friends in the various coalition units in order to always have a place to go. Also he is supported by contributions and book sales , he does not answer to any of the major media players.

Dude has stones



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Especially coming from someone without the nads to wear a uniform in combat.

Guess you don't really know me that well then do you...

And that language coming from a moderator is horrific.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
Guess you don't really know me that well then do you...

Well enough I suppose.

Your comment is out of line - period.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):

And that language coming from a moderator is horrific.

 cry  Spare me.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Your comment is out of line - period.

But understandable, given the US military's mockery of its allies' court system when dealing with such matters.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Let's hope that clown Kagan, an arch Neo-Con, gets to read this blog.
Better yet, he might have considered doing some basic research before recently running his mouth off about British forces in Iraq just 'sitting in their compounds'.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26906 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 13):
But understandable, given the US military's mockery of its allies' court system when dealing with such matters.

Yes totally agree. What they did to the wife of the soldier killed in the friendly fire incident and with holding information from the widow and the court was un forgiveable and that is the majority feeling of the British nation.

With regards British troops they are indeed the best in the world and one of my best friends is serving out in Iraq. The nicest guy you ever met and dedicated. I also respect all the American troops out there aswell. They do a tough job with no thanks for it. If you are pro Iraq invasion or against it then vote for your preffered policy when the elections come around but remember the troops dont choose where they go and the country must rally round them where ever they go .


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Well enough I suppose.

Send us a PM...



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Part III is now posted here , enjoy

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/death-or-glory-part-iii-of-iv.htm



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

I think its fair to say that the UK is proud of its troops and the sacrifices they are making; both in risking their lives, and in the strain it puts on them and their familys.

The general problem the nation has in this matter is with the politicians who lied to get us into this mess. The fact that the majority don't believe that we should be there at all, is no criticism of the personnel out there doing the job.

We respect them for their courage, and pity them for the disgusting way in which they have never been given the necessary equipment to do their job. Repeatedly our wonderful leader has said that the army will be given all the equipment they ask for; but it never arrives.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
We respect them for their courage, and pity them for the disgusting way in which they have never been given the necessary equipment to do their job. Repeatedly our wonderful leader has said that the army will be given all the equipment they ask for; but it never arrives.

It is ever the case. The British Government and MOD have a habit of forgetting the troops who have to do the dirty work on the ground and spend far too much time on spin and gloss. However, I don't think any amount of new equipment could ever make up for the average soldiers integrity and dedication to duty. It is that which keeps the guys in Iraq and Afghanistan on the ball and makes them generally respected all over the world.

I spent years in the RAF taking the piss out of our soldiers (as you do) but as far as I am concerned there are none better . It's about time the faceless people in the Ministry started to give the proper support and respect for these guys who put their lives on the line and their work before family.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

But, fact is, the equipment issues were there, in many cases very much more starkly, 25 years ago, but that was a 'popular' war, it was bloody-100 more servicemen died in a few weeks than in Iraq since March 2003, it was a conflict where the UK was only one of two combatents, it was straight forward, with an obvious clear military victory over a well defined enemy.

Casualty rates in the early 70's period in Northern Ireland were higher too, but over a similar longer period like today.

Much of the reporting now is predicataed on the media knowing full well it's an unpopular war, really they have to allow for this.

I think self deception was the key in Iraq, self deception that those weapons WERE there in some form, though to what extent there was divided opionion, self deception that the aftermath would be more straight forward, self deception that Blair would get more of Europe on board-as with Kosovo, self deception that Blair would have much more influence in Washington than he did-it again worked with Kosovo.

Self deception has happened before, in early 1982 clear signs of Argentine military preparations were signalled to London weeks in advance.
Thatcher could have emulated her predecessor, Jim Challaghan, when similar happened in 1977, he sent a nuclaear sub down south, two Frigates prepared to go from Gibralter too.
Leaked to the press, the sub deployment caused the Argentines to back off.

Self deception in 1982, that Argentina really were not serious, self deception that the proposed naval cuts - the most minor seeming to be UK Antartic Patrol Ship HMS Endurance, and it's Marines, would not be a red rag to a desperate Argentine Junta.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Especially coming from someone without the nads to wear a uniform in combat.

I hope I get banned for this - but just because certain people tend to not want to devote their lives to unjust and immoral wars fought by the Americans and "Britain" does not make them what it was considered in WWII - cowardly. People have brains these days, didn't you know?

Alex


User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Sheesh, 20 replies and this thing is turning into an American Troops Vs. British Troops war? This forum makes me wonder sometimes  Wink

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 21):

First off . . . nothing bannable . . . simply your opinion.

Secondly . . . I didn't call anyone a coward - perhaps your English skills fail you.

Thirdly . . . unless you've experienced incoming fire how frackin' dare you or anyone else pretend to have what it takes to deride troops that have. To insinuate that Blue on Blue fire was intentional is purely assinine. To support that thought is preposterous. To defend those that insinuate it and support it is purely ignorant.

You live with that or not . . . I don't really care . . . .

That is my opinion.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 19):
I spent years in the RAF taking the piss out of our soldiers (as you do) but as far as I am concerned there are none better . It's about time the faceless people in the Ministry started to give the proper support and respect for these guys who put their lives on the line and their work before family.

Where is a modern day Ernie Pyle?

(Ernie Pyle was an American reporter, who was highly respected by the Allied troops in WW2. He shared dugout and foxholes with them and had a terrific clout with the upper brass and politicians, always being on the side of the ordinary grunt. He got killed in 1945 by machine gun fire during the invasion of Okinawa.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Pyle )

Jan


25 ThePRGuy : 1: You suggested that those who did not wear a combat uniform had no "nads" - what else can that represent? My classic English skills have understood
26 ANCFlyer : Politics you may understand, but Blue on Blue engagements do not represent politics . . . . therein lies that fact that my commentary is spot on the
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