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Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?  
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8639 times:

Primarially targeted at the US readers, though I'm curious about the practice in other countries as well...

All through growing up in Southern California, I was warned that there were some states where Right on Red was not legal. Now that I'm doing a lot of travel with accompanying car rentals (Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, ...) I make a point of asking when I'm picking up the car and every time I've asked I get a look like I just asked if the sky was blue.

So does anyone know what states forbid Right on Red (not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.

I'm also wondering (perhaps from the LEOs among us about any nuances... For example, I've always been taught that if the light is red, you come to a complete stop, check for traffic, and then execute the right turn. In Ohio I've seen a bunch of "Right on Red AFTER STOP" signs around Cleveland's suburbs--- does this mean at all of the other intersections (besides those with "No Turn on Red" signs) you do not have to come to a complete stop before turning?

Lincoln


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76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8634 times:

I think the "right on red" signs were before the law went into effect and are a hold over from that era. I believe most states enacted the "right on red" being allowed in the late 70's early 80's during one of the fuel crisis to elevate people sitting waiting for the light to change, thus wasting gas.

[Edited 2007-06-12 02:31:06]


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

A pity because it really is a good idea.

There is one thing, typically in Europe the dwell times at traffic lights are far shorter than in the US where you can wait several minutes.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

Keep in mind this is Wikipedia...but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red

Quote:
All 50 states as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico have allowed right turns on red since January 1, 1980, unless a sign otherwise prohibits this...


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

I don't know, but it is a good idea that you're asking. I.E., fuzz-busters are illegal in Virginia, but not here in Ohio.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

Elliot Rd and I-10 in PHX/Tempe, AZ. Its impossible to see the oncoming traffic no matter which side of the overpass you are on at the stoplights coming off the freeway. But people still turn right on red even though there is a sign posted that says it's illegal.


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User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
Elliot Rd and I-10 in PHX/Tempe, AZ. Its impossible to see the oncoming traffic no matter which side of the overpass you are on at the stoplights coming off the freeway. But people still turn right on red even though there is a sign posted that says it's illegal.

The thread is meant to pertain to where it is not posted, not where there is an express prohibition.



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User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

You may not turn right on red in any of the 5 boroughs of NY.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8590 times:

Unless signs show it's forbidden, it is generally allowed to turn right with a red light in Costa Rica.

In the old East Germany, there are traffic lights that have a sign with a green arrow pointing to the right. This allows right turns with a red light. I don't know if it has spread out through the rest of Germany, but it was pretty convenient.


User currently offlineDuff44 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8589 times:

They are not legal anywhere in Manhattan... I know that much.

As for a large-scale prohibition in the USA, other than that one, I don't know of any. They're all pick-and-choose dpendent on the intersection.



I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 2):
I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

A pity because it really is a good idea.

Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.



User currently offlineMax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 7):
You may not turn right on red in any of the 5 boroughs of NY.



Quoting Duff44 (Reply 9):
They are not legal anywhere in Manhattan... I know that much.

JFK69 is correct, it's all of New York City.

I believe it's prohibited because right turn on reds are dangerous to pedestrians; the person is forced to look backwards to watch for a car turning right even when the pedestrian has the right of way. It's only natural for NYC to have this law because of the huge amount of pedestrians.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

In TUS right on red cannot be done when school children are in crosswalk, though that won't be a problem til August. You are also supposed to come to a complete stop before crossing the white line and turning.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

On the Circumvalación, the road that goes from La Uruca to Zapote, they've done the opposite, converting roundabouts to traffic lights intersections, but they stopped some time ago. IMO going from a roundabout to a standard multilane intersection will make things more difficult than they were. Then again, nobody at the Ministry of Public Transportation and Construction knows of proper planning since construction works got outsourced after introducing the Public Services Act (I don't exactly remember how it's called), which requires that the bidding companies have to go through a year and a half long contest to win the bid to do the actual construction work.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8556 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

Better than a 4way stop yes. Often better in other cases too, however at busy intersections they can be a bit of a pain... we have lots here in NZ and for the most part they are great.

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 2):
I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

Parts of Australia allow left on a red (since drive on the left so effectively the same thing)
we don't have it in New Zealand tho. Its a good idea... stops people needlessely waiting at intersections.



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User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them

Most American drivers are completely baffled by the Roundabout (a/k/a traffic circle) and have a really hard time coping with them... I hate the ones (near my office East of Cleveland) where there is a stop sign at the approach... you have to come to a complete stop and then accelerate into traffic coming around a corner... and my car doesn't accellerate that well. The ones that are simply a yield are very nice, however... I would like to see more of them, but like I said most drivers seem to be confused by them.

Then aparently Cleveland's traffic engineers don't really comprehend the proper application of a Traffic Circle because there are a few very strange examples... like this one with two stop lights and a road running through the center:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...086&spn=0.004292,0.00825&z=17&om=1

Or this one where the backup from traffic lined up at the light for E.105th frequently blocks the circle, and traffic in the circle is expected to yield to traffic entering the circle...except for the one side that has a stop sign...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...42&spn=0.002145,0.004125&z=18&om=1

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9391 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8547 times:
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Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 12):
In TUS right on red cannot be done when school children are in crosswalk, though that won't be a problem til August. You are also supposed to come to a complete stop before crossing the white line and turning.

You have to come to a full stop everywhere in the US. And you're not supposed to turn when anyone is in the crosswalk, (maybe you can once they clear your lane, I forget the actual rule).

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):

Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

Rotaries (roundabouts if you want) are a fairly Northeastern phenomenon, as far as I've seen. We have plenty of them up here in Massachusetts, and New England in general. Problem is, a lot of folks seem to not know how to negotiate them.

Then again, I almost got hit by someone who didn't wait their turn at a 4-way stop today....Maybe having rotaries is asking for too much....

If I remember correctly, in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way; is that correct? It's the opposite here in the States. Dunno why I seem to remember that....



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8543 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 14):
Parts of Australia allow left on a red (

We have those, too. You can turn left on red from a one-way street onto another one-way street.

I get quite annoyed when people won't turn left when there's absolutely no traffic coming from the right. I honk and they just sit there totally oblivious that I'm behind them (sometimes in an ambulance when lights and sirens on).


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8529 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):

University Circle = Evil.

One of those few problem spots around Cleveland.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8519 times:

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 16):
in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way

In the UK, vehicles already in the roundabout have the right-of-way. Those enter must give way.





User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6994 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin.

Yes roundabouts are a great thing, but right turn on red is even better. I have been noticing a few more roundabouts here in Miami, they are becoming more common in the states. But there are only a few real roundabouts in Miami in some of the older portions of the city and they work great there.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
We have those, too. You can turn left on red from a one-way street onto another one-way street.

Yes we are allowed to turn left on a red light from a one way street to another one way street. But since he is talking about Australia making a left turn on red is equal to are right turn on red since they have right hand drive cars in Australia like in the UK.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
I get quite annoyed when people won't turn left when there's absolutely no traffic coming from the right. I honk and they just sit there totally oblivious that I'm behind them (sometimes in an ambulance when lights and sirens on).

Me too. Some people dont know they are allowed to do this.
Another thing that is annoying at least in Miami-Dade County is when someone is at an intersection with a green light making a left turn but they dont move up into the intersection so they just wait there and dont move and than the light turns red. In Miami you are allowed to pull up block the intersection and than proceed with your turn even if the light is red.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineGAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 933 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights.

Agreed, but where would you build them in crowded cities, like NYC?

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
like this one with two stop lights and a road running through the center:

We have that in D.C. as well, but I forget the exact whereabouts.  bomb 



"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8507 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
The thread is meant to pertain to where it is not posted, not where there is an express prohibition.

Thats not what the thread starter said in his original post. Re-read it again. He states:

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.



Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
does this mean at all of the other intersections (besides those with "No Turn on Red" signs) you do not have to come to a complete stop before turning?



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):

DANG! That looks dangerous and confusing!  redflag 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8502 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 20):
Another thing that is annoying at least in Miami-Dade County is when someone is at an intersection with a green light making a left turn but they dont move up into the intersection so they just wait there and dont move and than the light turns red.

Most places have laws making it illegal to stop or block an intersection. In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

Big version: Width: 288 Height: 384 File size: 40kb


Blocking an intersection in such a manner is also dangerous and really pisses off emergency vehicle drivers.


User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2866 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8500 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 23):
In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

I love that idea. It seems during the summer when a whole bunch of tourists drive down here they don't have a clue that intersections can't be blocked and I know one near me that gets blocked at every single light change. This would give them a clue to, duh, DONT DO IT!



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25 Pacifica : I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet... IIRC it is illegal to turn right on a red on the entire Island of (Isle de) Montreal, although I'm pret
26 Post contains images Lincoln : I would subtract the word "few" there University Circle can be either terifying and sheer hell (Monday-Friday 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM or so) but the rest
27 Post contains images Lincoln : Hey I've always wondered what that ment, along with the squiggly edge lines that I've periodically seen in photos of (I think) Europe... It's amazing
28 Post contains images Lan_Fanatic : In Chile you can turn right on red light only when permitted by this sign. It is a relatively recent practice and it certainly is a good one.
29 FlyMIA : Well its not exactly dangerous as long as you make sure you go when you know the oncoming cars are going to stop. and for emergency vehicles if they
30 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : They're to indicate the approach to a zebra crossing, which are identified by their flashing yellow ball lights. North Americans call them uncontroll
31 Vikkyvik : Well aware of that. That's why I mentioned the Netherlands. There were also some T-intersections there where the car making a right turn had the righ
32 WildcatYXU : This green arrow gives you exactly the same rights as you have in North America when you have red. True. In Montreal it's forbidden because of "prote
33 AirframeAS : Boulder, Colorado has alot of those at every major crosswalk around the University of Colorado. I'm referring to the top picture you posted. Very dif
34 STLGph : A great deal of places in Omaha, Nebraska and Lincoln, Nebraska. All intersections coming off of I-235 in Des Moines and West Des Moines, Iowa.
35 ACDC8 : You're starting to see more and more of them all over Germany now. About time too! This is one thing I've always had difficulties adjusting too after
36 Itsjustme : Typically, when you see a sign indicating "Right Turn on Red After Stop", they're usually at an intersection where a green right turn arrow is also i
37 Gemuser : Sorry Zkpilot but left on red is totally prohibited in all of Australia, unless it is authorised by a sign at the intersection (National Uniform Road
38 Doona : AFAIK, it's not allowed in Sweden. Cheers Mats
39 LTBEWR : Yes, there is a blanket prohibition on RTOR (Right Turn on Red) in NY City unless otherwise posted. In most areas of the USA, one can do a RTOR unless
40 DeltaDC9 : They have one near my house and there is at least one wreck a day. They are considering its removal. Unless they are common and a part of the drivers
41 Post contains images Iflyatldl : IIRC. on the island of Montreal and some of the South Shore Boroughs(I have to remember that when I'm home driving). Here in ATL (and in Georgia, for
42 AirPacific747 : It also seemed to be legal in British Columbia, BC. As the wikipedia article shows, we have those 'right turn' arrows as well here, but usually it is
43 Banco : Turning left on red is completely banned in Britain. However, the traffic lights do often have left turn green filters at junctions instead.
44 GerbenYYZ : In the Netherlands, traffic that is in the roundabout has the right of way, traffic wanting to enter has to give right of way to those already in the
45 DeltaDC9 : The problem arises when you are in a 2 lane roundabout. If you stay in the outer lane and you do not exit at the next outlet, you can cause a wreck b
46 Banco : DeltaDC9, that's only because you aren't used to them. We have roundabouts all over the place in the UK, and no real problems. I would imagine it's th
47 AsstChiefMark : Then the drivers are idiots. I don't see what's so difficult about them. I drove my first roundabouts while in England and had no problems. When I ca
48 Post contains images David L : My only experience of driving in the USA was in NJ and NYC. I knew they had opposite rules about turning right on red but I could never remember whic
49 Post contains links and images QR332 : Here in Qatar, there is always a separate "road" that allows you to turn right. This'll give you an idea: (If if doesn't show up: http://static3.bare
50 PHLBOS : That's an often-overlooked benefit/part of the Turning on Red guidelines. I can not tell you the number of times I've gotten behind someone at a 2-on
51 Seb146 : I think that is the case everywhere. There are intersections in Seattle and Portland where you can't see what is coming so, no turns are allowed on r
52 Post contains links WildcatYXU : I like this Roundabout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xql99I1VSdI&mode=related&search=
53 Dan2002 : I used to go through that roundabout by E. 105th and MLK every morning on my way to school, pretty crazy traffic up there sometimes.
54 ACDC8 : Yes, it is legal in BC. Actually, we can even make a legal left turn on a red light as well! As long as you're turning left into a one way street.
55 Post contains images AirPacific747 : Haha what I mean was British Columbia, CA Didn't notice it before I looked at the quote in your post... Interesting!
56 Post contains images Iflyatldl : Quoting AirPacific747 (reply 55) Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 54): Yes, it is legal in BC. Haha what I mean was British Columbia, CA Didn't notice it before I
57 AsstChiefMark : California?
58 Iflyatldl : I know I've seen it in California too.
59 Post contains images AirPacific747 : close just like US... who's 'us'? :P
60 DeltaDC9 : Good example, but unless you have done it before, that aint easy. Left is right, right is left, and you dont figure that out until you try it a few t
61 FlyMIA : Well in florida you can turn left on red from a one-way street to a one way street anytime unless a sign says you cant. In Miami there are even place
62 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Can you imagine all the rear-end crashes inside the roundabout?
63 Post contains images Canuckpaxguy : True, you can't turn right on a red light in Montreal, but a red light never seems to stop Quebec drivers from going straight through the intersectio
64 Bill142 : Only where sign posted. Otherwise it's illegal.
65 Post contains images SJUboeingGirl : This reminds me lately i've seen a lot of Hummer's, FJ's, Jeeps that want to turn right but there are like 10 cars in front that are going straight an
66 Don81603 : Columbus traffic circle on Broadway. I have also seen a few traffic circles in southern New Mexico as well, but they are not a prevalent in North Ame
67 PHLBOS : From the same reply, next line down:
68 57AZ : Another complicating factor is that in some jurisdictions, right turns on red are allowed for passenger cars/trucks but not school or other buses. Som
69 BHXFAOTIPYYC : No turn on red in Portugal unless green filter arrow specifically permitting it. A lot of traffic lights are being exchanged for roundabouts where spa
70 RobertNL070 : A misconception. Vehicles already on the roundabout have priority over those entering the roundabout. Robert
71 Asturias : Ey, there is no problem. You just don't know how to use roundabouts. The inner circle rules, if you are on the outer circle you are expected to turn
72 Post contains images Pilotsmoe : We have some circles like that in NJ
73 Viscount724 : Don't you mean "turning left FROM a one way street INTO a one way street"? I'm sure you can't turn left on a red light from a two-way street, even if
74 Post contains links ACDC8 : Unless there are signs saying you can't, you can legally turn left from a one way or a two street into a one way street on a red light. You can look
75 Post contains links WildcatYXU : Not in Ontario, here you can only do it from one way street to one way street. Look here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dan...river/handbook/secti
76 Soylentgreen : Not legal in any of the five boroughs of New York City.
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