Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Suicide Bombs Justified For Sir Rushdie - Pakistan  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8228 posts, RR: 26
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1948375.ece

Britain's decision to award Salman Rushdie a knighthood set off a storm of protest in the Islamic world today, with a Pakistani government minister giving warning that it could provide justification for suicide bomb attacks.

Rushdie was awarded the title in the Queen's Birthday Honours on Saturday. He has lived under police protection since the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran pronounced a fatwa (death sentence) on him over alleged blasphemies against Islam in his 1988 novel The Satanic Verses.

Today, Pakistan's religious affairs minister suggested that the knighthood was so grave an offence that any Muslim anywhere in the world would be justified in taking violent action.

"If somebody has to attack by strapping bombs to his body to protect the honour of the Prophet then it is justified," Mr ul-Haq told the National Assembly.

The minister, the son of Zia ul-Haq, the military dictator who died in a plane crash in 1988, later retracted his statement in parliament, then told the AFP news agency that he meant to say that knighting Rushdie would foster extremism.

"If someone blows himself up he will consider himself justified. How can we fight terrorism when those who commit blasphemy are rewarded by the West?" he said.


Too late - it's obvious you meant what you said the first time. How about opening a reasoned dialogue with Rushdie regarding the disrespected leaders? Oh no, sorry, suicide bombs are better at proving the point.  Yeah sure

He said Pakistan should sever diplomatic ties with Britain if it did not withdraw the award, adding:"We demand an apology by the British government. Their action has hurt the sentiments of 1.5 billion Muslims...

...



Khwaja Asif, an Opposition parliamentarian, warned however that the resolution exposed a contradiction in the Government’s policy as an ally of Britain in the international war on terrorism.

In the Pakistani city of Multan, about 100 Muslim students burnt effigies of the Queen and Rushdie and shouted: "Kill him, kill him".

Rushdie went into hiding and copies of The Satanic Verses were publicly burned on the streets of Bradford after Ayatollah Khomeini issued his fatwa, ordering Muslims to kill him.

Eighteen years ago when Scotland Yard first gave Salman Rushdie police protection senior officers accepted that the operation could take years and cost millions but there was a determination that it had to be done. Senior officers felt that he could not be allowed to become a victim of extremism and Special Branch officers began their guard on him.

...

A fine species we are. We're at the pinnacle of our technological and intellectual prowess as a species yet it still all comes down to this outright emotional garbage based on mostly nothing. What's it going to take to set us straight?


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
118 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Rushdie's been a fine novelist for 30 years. The award is a British one, to a British writer. None of their bloody business.


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
knighting Rushdie would foster extremism.

I thought close-mindedness and lack of objectivity fostered extremism.


User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

Here we go again.

Quoting Banco (Reply 1):
None of their bloody business.

Damn right. Plenty more things going on in Pakistan for them to be worrying about. Stupid and highly irresponsible thing for Mr ul-Haq to say.



Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8228 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 1):
Rushdie's been a fine novelist for 30 years.

Indeed. He's a gifted writer and employs clever wordplay that few of his contemporaries can match. A decent bet says most of these malcontents have never even read his work.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

The British High Commissioner (that's Ambassador, by the way - they're called High Commissioners between Commonwealth countries) to Pakistan has expressed "deep concern" over the comments. That's diplomatic language for angry disbelief, really.


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

So now the mouthpieces of moderate Islam will say "This represents the viewpoint of only a few extremists, not the mainstream Muslim community."

I eagerly await the public condemnation of Mr. Ul-Haq's remarks by prominent moderate Muslims. If anyone sees any articles that reflect this, please post the link.



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

If you are reading JGPHXYZA, that's a real Fatwah that is Big grin


More seriously though, this is not good. Especially from a government minister of a country that knows exactly what the impact of suicide bombs are on innocent people and the danger of promoting terrorism  Yeah sure



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8971 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Quick overview of the history (hope it's accurate):

"On February 14, 1989, the Ayatollah broadcast the following message on Iranian radio: "I inform the proud Muslim people of the world that the author of the Satanic Verses book, which is against Islam, the Prophet and the Qur'an, and all those involved in its publication who are aware of its content are sentenced to death."[2]As a result, Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese language translator of the book was stabbed to death on July 11, 1991; Ettore Capriolo, the Italian language translator, was seriously injured in a stabbing the same month, and William Nygaard, the publisher in Norway, survived an attempted assassination in Oslo in October of 1993. On February 14, 2006, the Iranian state news agency reported that the fatwa will remain in place permanently.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Perhaps they could benefit from actually reading the Satanic Verses.

User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 6):
So now the mouthpieces of moderate Islam will say "This represents the viewpoint of only a few extremists, not the mainstream Muslim community."

Pakistan is a bit of a basket case, though.

Some of the comments I've heard have talked about the knighthood being "provocative". This is nonsense, because it essentially says a country can't do anything that the more extreme types might view as being "provocative". It's our citizen that's being honoured, not theirs, it has nothing whatever to do with them.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
Perhaps they could benefit from actually reading the Satanic Verses.

Perhaps not. It's actually one of his worst books.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

If they are so mad and want to blow themselves up, I have no problem with that. its the fact that they like murdering innocent people that I have a problem with. Did Rushdie kill anyone?

Some Muslim fundamentalists are so freaking hypocritical - it's unbelieveable!



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8228 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 12):
Some Muslim fundamentalists are so freaking hypocritical - it's unbelieveable!

It's more than hypocrisy, it's bordering on large scale mental illness.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2164 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
Perhaps they could benefit from actually reading the Satanic Verses.

-
I once had a serious look into that book and found the writing style rather boring. To force somebody to read the book therefore amounts to torture. Mr ul-Haq possibly has shares in the relevant publishing-house !  Big grin
-


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2164 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 13):
It's more than hypocrisy, it's bordering on large scale mental illness.

Muslim fanatics are trying to drum up support for some sort of religious war between Christians and their own religion - yet I have not seen any indication that Christianity is being spread to that part of the world. Yet it seems like we are heading down the path of an all-out war between religious beliefs... because of their actions.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

OK...putting myself in his place and not knowing the context of the discussion or speech I can see how he could have been taken incorrectly. All one needs to add is the inferred "in the eyes of the terrorist" before the sentence "....is justified".....

I hope that's what he meant, as it would have been criminally stupid for him to side with the terrorists and display an attitude of acceptability for suicide/homicide bombings.

I would like to know who's idea it was to knight the dude. He's not that great a writer.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

While I agree it is non of their business, the action itself is very provocative, especially when you know what a controversial figure this man is. I disagree with the threats, he can write whatever the hell he wants - thats the whole point of freedom of speech, but at the same time knighting him was not a good idea. Muslims already perceive the West as being anti-Islamic, and this just proves to many that this is indeed the case.

This is the equivalent to Muslims as knighting that Holocaust denier - I forgot what his name was, the British one who was arrested recently.

I'm sure all of you would be pissed off if it was him being knighted.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8228 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

I highly doubt that. The reaction you would likely find is a condemnation of such a decision as being stupid more than outrageous or provocative. At any rate, Holocaust denial has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

Whether or not an action is, in fact, provocative is wholly dependent on the intent. The intent of the queen was obviously to reward one of Britain's seminal figures in its immigrant community, particularly with regard to Rushdie's ability to build literary bridges between today's India and Indians who expatriated.

The real question here is why this is considered provocative at all. It seems the only sensible answer is that some are categorically unable to employ reason and wait for any ounce of criticism to decry as provocation.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2010 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
Muslims already perceive the West as being anti-Islamic, and this just proves to many that this is indeed the case.

Muslims perceive correctly. I'm sorry, I've lived in the Middle East, and once loved it. But, the stunning and inexplicable silence of the moderate majority has allowed perceptions of Islam to be completely overshadowed by the outrageous acts of the radical minority. Until the moderates step up and clean up their own mess (shut down the radical madrassahs who spew hate and radicalism), all Muslims will continue to be tarnished by the actions of the minority. I'm sorry, but I really feel there is no place in civilized society for the likes of Mr Ul-Haq, and his statements. It is inexcusable for a government minister to make such a statement, and it is precisely these types of statement (and underlying sentiment behind it) that fuels the anti-Islamic feelings in the West.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
the action itself is very provocative

Is it hell. Rushdie wrote a book, and without so much as reading it, you had a religious leader calling for his murder. If that's not provocative, I don't know what is. To then say that to honour a writer's long career in the face of such a disgusting, despicable decree is "provocative" is pathetic.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
This is the equivalent to Muslims as knighting that Holocaust denier

In what way is that even a remotely accurate comparison?



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
While I agree it is non of their business, the action itself is very provocative, especially when you know what a controversial figure this man is.



Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
Muslims already perceive the West as being anti-Islamic, and this just proves to many that this is indeed the case.

I perceive Muslims as being anti-West. Does that give me the right to dictate how Muslims act in their home countries? Do I get to dictate how women are treated in Saudi Arabia? Or the lack of religious tolerance in Iran?

This is just one more example of how Islamic fanaticism is judged by a different politically correct standard than any other behavior in the world. If the Queen decided to knight Mel Gibson and Jewish groups threatened to launch suicide attacks in the UK to protest that act, nobody would argue that "the [Queen's] actions ... are very provocative."

Radical elements of Islam will not voluntarily stop short of anything but complete world domination.

Though I am by no means an expert on Islam, I have studied it quite a bit. I have several Islamic friends (one was my roomate in college) and truly believe based on my discussions with them that true Islam is peaceful and these extremist are distorting the Quran the same ways that Christians distorted the Bible for thousands of years. But until the mainstream of the Islamic religion becomes much more aggressive in disassociating and eliminating the visible minority of extremist from within its ranks, the world will continue to adopt an "us" versus "them" mentality.

He who is silent is said to consent.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

No, Rushdie is nothing like David Irving, who is a totally disgraced figure here.
Irving wrote fiction pretending it was fact, to advance his own nasty agenda.
Rushdie is purely a novelist.

Rushdie is not to my taste, certainly sometimes seemed ungrateful for the £10 Million spent in personal protection he was (rightly) given, but that's in the past.
Question, how many of those ranting and calling for his death, can actually READ at all, let alone his books, of course those manipulating them are aware of this.

I'd not cite a holocaust denier in this if you come from the Mid East, however enlightened you might be yourself, where such a thing is common, often in state controlled media, not only with that vile charade in Iran recently.
(Can the UK get het up about the fiction/conspricay theory against Jews, the Elders Of Zion, be such a hit on state controlled media in places like Syria then?).

Our citizen, (who has never harmed or called for harm against anyone, unlike his attackers), our award, our free speech.

Maybe, if UK law had been implemented in 1989 when a lot of so called British Citizens went out and called for his death (incitement is illegal), instead of too many people saying 'oh well it's their culture', maybe later, sometimes more lethal nutters might have been nipped in the bud.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 21):

Wow, that was just about the most extremist thing I have ever seen you write, and that is saying something. Shame on you.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Wow, that was just about the most extremist thing I have ever seen you write, and that is saying something. Shame on you.

Pray tell what about it do you find extremist?

That I called Islam a fundamentally peaceful religion?
That I called on mainstream elements to disassociate themselves from people who want to use violence against civilians to impose their will?
That I point out that radical elements of Islam seem hell bent on dominating behavior not just in their homeland but around the world?

Don't be a coward, step up and debate like a man.


25 Post contains images Flyorski : That is true. Maybe some are upset because in most advanced European countries many Islamic immigrants live next to the evil people who do not want t
26 Doona : I am so sick and tired of that word. Is violence suddenly OK if provoked? I thought violence was only sanctioned in the case of defence, not provocat
27 N1120A : All extremist statements.
28 Banco : Hmm. That quote comes from Plato.
29 Mdsh00 : He should be one to talk, since his country is a freaking breeding ground for terrorism. I would think that Fundamentalism and groups like Al-Qaida h
30 Pope : Ahh. You deliberately take statements out of context and call them extremist. In fact, you don't just take them out of context, you frame your positio
31 Doona : Indeed, but the "us-versus-them"-statement is not entirely incorrect. Look at mainstream media as one example. While news from around the world does
32 Pope : Be careful N1120A is going to label you extremist for saying such a thing.
33 LHMARK : That does happen. For example, CNN's Christine Amanpour and the New York Times Thomas Friedman have produced numerous reports featuring average peopl
34 Post contains images Scbriml : This would be the same Pakistan where, on the TV news last night, we saw footage of a Taliban training camp where a new group of potential suicide bom
35 N1120A : Even he gets things wrong.
36 Post contains images David L : Yeah... and did he leave other religions untouched? I guess it's OK to criticise any religion as long as it isn't "mine". How many Muslims has he ask
37 DL021 : What was extreme there? He expressed a viewpoint and gave his reasons....did I miss something?
38 MaverickM11 : Or reading anything really....
39 TheCol : It's not just Christianity they're trying to vanquish. You should see what the Muslim extremists are doing to the Buddhist monks in Thailand.
40 Banco : Certainly. Much of Republic is anaethema to modern democratic tastes (and yes, I have read it). However, it's not usual to lump one of the foremost p
41 Bravo45 : And what do you think about Bush's Crusade???
42 Richierich : I don't claim to understand how one man's book (Rushdie) can cause such an issue with the Muslim world - I can't imagine anything similar striking up
43 QR332 : Why should we apologize for something we are not responsible for? I mean, if I was funding them, and helping them, fair enough. But I will not ever a
44 Bravo45 : That is a fundamentally wrong comparison and that is where a large part of the problem is. Rushdie is accused of insulting the Prophet of Islam (pbuh
45 Post contains links and images ME AVN FAN : - the headline in the Khaleej Times of Dubai was Anger mounts in Pakistan over Rushdie award > http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...2007/june/subco
46 Pope : A valid criticism of my argument which I'll concede. At the very least this one person is trying to dictate how the West should act. If I'm being to
47 QR332 : We can argue about technicalities, but my point was that what Muslims want isn't to dictate what the West should do, but rather that the West respect
48 Post contains links Bravo45 : And who the hell is that person??? Let me remind you! His is the member of the Kings party set up by the west's puppet, the dictator Musharraf, who i
49 Mdsh00 : Agreed, but in his statement, he said that he speaks for all "1.5 billion Muslims," which I would assume includes you as well. Of course the only one
50 Bravo45 : No one on either side ever reaches out to the other to knock their door and tell them that they condemn it. Its the responsibility of the media to co
51 Pope : But the answer cannot be to bow to the wishes of the extremist. Instead, the extremist need to be rooted out.
52 PA110 : I lived in Iran for 3.5 years. I have also traveled extensively throughout the Muslim World (Gulf States, Oman, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Morocco, Malays
53 Aaron747 : Perhaps you haven't been listening to a lot of us then, which is rather unfortunate.
54 Doona : Good. Wish I could get stuff like that in my news. Need to get CNN... I'm not just talking about positive versus negative news, I'd just like to see
55 LHMARK : In fairness, doing profiles on people in the middle east is making a feature story, not a news piece. News is reactive, an immediate response to an e
56 ME AVN FAN : to reduce matters to size, a Minister of Pakistan tries to dictate the United Kingdom what to do.
57 Doona : Of course, but that's the thing. We'll get feature stories as well, but when it comes to real news, it's always about the previously mentioned issues
58 Post contains links Fumanchewd : I agree. I will admit that I only read Satanic Verses because of the controversy but really liked it. The crazy thing is that Rushdie's purpose was t
59 Bravo45 : If only it wasn't so convenient to overlook some questions posed to you. And its us who haven't been listening to you. For your information, we are l
60 ME AVN FAN : - Also the much of the bases of Arab culture, including science, ideology, politics, can be traced back to Greece but also to ancient India. - - Such
61 Scbriml : I seem to remember The Catholic Church getting rather upset recently about certain books and films. The Passion of Christ and The DaVinci Code. Now o
62 ME AVN FAN : - Most of those "films" showed completely different things, and that woman distributing candies most have been omnipotent as she was filmed simultane
63 Mika : Regardless of whom anyone would knight i still wouldnt blow myself up in a crowd and kill innocent people. And i highly doubt that anyone with sound
64 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : true, such notions do not solve anything, nor really make the point !
65 Cfalk : That is the entire point. You have the right to be pissed about something, particularly when you feel your faith has been insulted or whatever. I'm a
66 ME AVN FAN : - well, in fact exactly as Muslims, well most Muslims.
67 Post contains images David L : You said: ... I didn't ask you to apologise, I simply pointed out how incorrect that comment was - being "pissed off" is not "equivalent to" encourag
68 Post contains images JGPH1A : The only valid fatwahs are those issued by the Fatwaic Culinary and Allied Trades Federation, of which I am the Head Adjudicator & Mullah-for-Life. T
69 ME AVN FAN : "shouldn't" is the word, while reality often shows severe setbacks in the minds of far too many. Imagine that this "self-sacrifice" thing goes back t
70 QANTASforever : Okay - before anyone asks: no, I had nothing to do with this. Honest! QFF
71 Post contains images QR332 : I completely agree, I was referring to the people who were saying Britain can knight whoever they want and people should not be pissed off because of
72 Post contains images David L : Ah, OK. Just a poor choice of quote, then. Fair enough.
73 Post contains images Baroque : Good post QR but I am not sure I can agree with the quoted para. The fatwa certainly was an attempt to dictate how the West should act. And as was po
74 Post contains images Banco : Of course not. It's well known you dress up as the Queen in your spare time.
75 David L : I can't agree with that - it's not as bloody even under close examination. I'd much rather have a few thousand people trying to teach nonsense than h
76 Post contains images QANTASforever : I do not. Considering your weird fascination with Australia and the monarchy one would think you'd be the one dressing up like an old ex-patriot Quee
77 ME AVN FAN : - Not really, as people who today prohibit modern science and knowledge of the evolution will tomorrow stop this and that and their actions in the en
78 Post contains images Banco : Oh, I have a fascination with Australia - after all, I work in Australian tourism. But the monarchy bit, hmm...now who is the one always asking me qu
79 QANTASforever : You do?? *smack* QFF P.S. Seriously, you do?
80 Banco : It's one of the things I do, absolutely.
81 QANTASforever : Are you joking? You work for Australian tourism? I never ever thought I would see the day. I'm astonished. QFF
82 Banco : No, not for, in. Slight difference.
83 QANTASforever : Elaborate. QFF
84 GDB : Bottom line, just about every other major world religion accepts criticism, without members of it inciting their masses to go around killing people, f
85 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Not philosophy however.   Absolutely. And of course hemlock was Socrates' punishment for thinking in such a manner. The important thing here, howeve
86 David L : So, you're saying maybe Creationism will one day lead to bloodshed... therefore it's as "bloody" as suicide bombings if you look closely? I think you
87 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..and what's "too late" about it? his comments were taken out of context (or he misstated what he meant) and he corrected himself... ...but lets not
88 ME AVN FAN : - Philosophy most of all ! Arab philosophy is heavily based on the Greek one . - While I do not like his style, in this he has my complete support. t
89 David L : It's still pure conjecture on your part. Creationism is not new - it's been around almost since humans were first able to talk. Comparing it to the N
90 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Of course the other idea that Mr ul-Haq hasn't yet put before the Pakistani Parliament is to reject the increase of British aid to his country from £
91 ME AVN FAN : - but this applies to other such things as well. Muslim fundamentalism came up first time with Abdul Wahhab, the "reformator" who in conjunction with
92 David L : I guess I'll have to spell it out by saying that Creationism has existed for thousands of years without resorting to bloodshed so I don't see a reaso
93 ME AVN FAN : - A) he has not advocated suicide bombing, he just has justified possible suicide bombings B) the "predecessors" of Mr Hitler even were romantic (Rom
94 Baroque : Creationism as a proposition might not lead to bloodshed (although it well could) but we do know that fellow travellers have already bombed a number
95 Post contains images Cfalk : OMG It's the same thing!!!!!!!!! You're splitting hairs, man!
96 David L : Are they all Creationists? I thought a lot of them were just fervent Christians and some of them were even atheists. I knew a couple of anti-abortion
97 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - not really. A profit-warning is not the reason for making losses. And warning that this or that may be the reason for something bad is NOT advocati
98 Aaron747 : Only in your warped little worldview is there a clear difference.
99 ME AVN FAN : - you shoud NOT look at things in such a narrow-minded way ! but stay open and objective
100 Bravo45 : I'd have more respect for you should you choose to complety stay out of this thread, which you started yourself than for you to ignore what has been
101 Aaron747 : I don't need to answer anything about Bush's actions and repeat myself for the nth time...you can search three years worth of posts chronicling my dis
102 ME AVN FAN : - you "don't need to " of course is correct, but to answer to questions is polite manners. So, why not ?
103 Bravo45 : I agree, no one can answer about anyone else's action, this applies to everyone. So when you say something like its too late for him to take it back,
104 GDB : Baroque, I guess I was relating to the experience of post war immigrants to the UK, I was brought up in, still live and work in, an area with no short
105 Post contains images David L : OK, that's the first time I've seen you saying that instead of arguing that it's equivalent to the remote possibility of Creationists becoming bloodt
106 Post contains links Jacobin777 : ...and how many people might have died if this had happened? " Arrests at Jerusalem gay parade Anti-Gay Pride protester arrested in Jerusalem Hundreds
107 ME AVN FAN : - I in fact said this almost at the beginning. The ACTUAL problem about Mr ul-Haq Jr however is neither what he says/said nor what he does but what h
108 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - not really, except that none of the Israeli ministers was stupid enough to "warn" the "outside world" about such people and such dangers. But, ok,
109 Post contains links Baroque : I did write fellow travellers. I suspect Creationism and clinic bombing are different offshoots of a general trend of thought/belief or whatever. Giv
110 David L : OK, but I still don't think that's evidence that Creationists will become "as bloody" as certain other fundamentalists. Purely an opinion, of course.
111 ME AVN FAN : Mr Goebbels and Mr Ribbentrop and Mr Molotov were NOT condemned by their own people ................ and WERE prominent government ministers from Eur
112 Aaron747 : Somewhat fallacious to use those examples considering they were fascists. In any event, the example you were countering was based in a contemporary c
113 ME AVN FAN : - NO, it is NOT irrelevant. Mr Molotov btw. was NOT a "fascist" but saw himself as an anti-fascist.
114 Cfalk : Stalin/Molotov were just as fascist as Hitler/Ribbentrop. One of the great ironies of history...
115 ME AVN FAN : while the question remains whether General Musharraf is to be regarded as a democrat because there is a democratically elected parliament or whether
116 Baroque : If he could actually control his country then he might considered for a dictator. Let us not go down the fascist route as it appears there is little
117 Aaron747 : He clearly doesn't hold enough real power to be an effective dictator. You have to be able to at least trust your secret police force for that... Now
118 ME AVN FAN : - No, the point that this minister is not subject to criticism in Pakistan is irrelevant. The central point is that he went into a kind of "advance-a
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Authorities Should Look For Bombers, Not Bombs posted Thu Aug 10 2006 17:32:42 by Zrs70
Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent! posted Sun Aug 14 2005 14:03:03 by Mrniji
Memorial Held For Rachel Corrie In Pakistan posted Mon May 5 2003 09:46:44 by Airmale
Something For The Weekend Sir? posted Fri May 2 2003 19:18:47 by Silverfox
US Preparing For Military Action In Pakistan? posted Fri Apr 26 2002 01:54:43 by Ual747
Pakistan's Airspace Sold For $30 Billion posted Sun Sep 16 2001 23:09:52 by LY744
Need Ideas For A Prank posted Mon Jun 18 2007 15:14:27 by JFK69
Hollywood A Go Go For Me! posted Mon Jun 18 2007 06:23:14 by Alaskaqantas
Japanese Toiletry For Beginners (subtitled) posted Mon Jun 18 2007 06:22:44 by LHboyatDTW
For You Frankie Valli Four Season Fans, Watch This posted Sun Jun 17 2007 14:00:13 by GOCAPS16