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"Sicko", Who's Going To See It?  
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

READ BEFORE POSTING: This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko", and not about the man behind it (Michael Moore). If you'd like to, you're more than welcome to start your own thread.

So, the eve of its unveiling is nearly upon us..."Sicko" comes out in the US this Friday! Are you going to see it or avoid it? What are your thoughts about the film itself?

The trailer for those who haven't seen it:




Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Why?

It's already public knowledge that there are faked and staged scenes.

Like the other films, Sicko is not a documentary. It's a hit piece designed to provide only Mr. Moores opinion in the best light.


User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
It's already public knowledge that there are faked and staged scenes.

Source?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Like the other films, Sicko is not a documentary.

I won't argue with you there - it's an editorial no doubt. I've already seen the movie though, and I don't think that was the objective. To borrow a couple of phrases from a movie reviewer (I couldn't have put it better), it gives the audience a hard look at the fallacies of the privatized system while glamorizing some universal systems abroad - not as a strictly factual comparison, but as a device to effect change by "shaming" us into improving American healthcare. I've seen every Moore film to date, and IMO this is a completely different direction.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Quoting AC773 (Reply 2):
Source?



Quoting AC773 (Reply 2):
I've already seen the movie though...

Good, you've seen the movie. You'll know what I'm talking about. Mr. Moore and cronies load up a trio of boats to head off to Cuba.

Problem is, they flew into Cuba. The scene was faked.

Which you can actually tell by watching Sicko without any outside corroboration. Why would they need to commandeer a boat to get to the silly GITMO scene if they had just used three to get to Cuba?

The GITMO scene BTW is a key example of the typical garbage in US politics these days. People complain that we aren't treating the detainees well enough. When the Govt points out how well the detainees are treated, Mr. Moore has a hissy fit about it. Typical puerile no win garbage.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

I'd like to see it, but in a way that would not benefit Mr. Moore nor anyone involved with its production.

...not to "hurt" him or anything, I just want to provide no contribution to his cause. Not that he seems to mind, he's come out and encouraged people to download F9/11.


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
It's a hit piece designed to provide only Mr. Moores opinion in the best light.

Well, if his opinion is that people at ground zero on 9/11 trying to save Americans ought to receive at least similar care as the 'enemy combatants' trying to kill Americans, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who disagrees or thinks the story is unworthy of being reported. Unless you're one of those people who look past the substance and can focus only on the messenger.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
Good, you've seen the movie. You'll know what I'm talking about. Mr. Moore and cronies load up a trio of boats to head off to Cuba.

Problem is, they flew into Cuba. The scene was faked.

Which you can actually tell by watching Sicko without any outside corroboration. Why would they need to commandeer a boat to get to the silly GITMO scene if they had just used three to get to Cuba?

The GITMO scene BTW is a key example of the typical garbage in US politics these days. People complain that we aren't treating the detainees well enough. When the Govt points out how well the detainees are treated, Mr. Moore has a hissy fit about it. Typical puerile no win garbage.

So... have you seen it? It sure sounds like you have. Or was this culled from some blog?

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 4):
Not that he seems to mind, he's come out and encouraged people to download F9/11.

He said the same here.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
Well, if his opinion is that people at ground zero on 9/11 trying to save Americans ought to receive at least similar care as the 'enemy combatants' trying to kill Americans, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who disagrees or thinks the story is unworthy of being reported.

I'm not going to disagree that the 9/11 responders deserve the best health care we can give them.

But they aren't going to get it in a secure military installation. No amount of screaming through a bullhorn will change that.

The fact that I think the 9/11 responders should get the best health care still doesn't make a comparison to the treatment of POWs valid in any manner.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
So... have you seen it? It sure sounds like you have.

Yes I have.

If I were to comment on the movie without having seen it I would be somewhat of a hypocrite wouldn't I?

Yes, yes. I already know your next retort. "why are you answering if you would see it if you have already seen it?"

I didn't see it of my own volition and would not given the choice.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
He said the same here.

Yup, he did originally encourage the downloading of Sicko... but that has been reversed now and the film is no longer available for download.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Can wait to see it!



Anyone else catch the great film maker on Leno last night?

I particularly liked this line ---> Money should never enter the equation


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20781 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):
I didn't see it of my own volition and would not given the choice.

Why does that bring up images in my mind a la A Clockwork Orange?  laughing 



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
avoid it

Like the plague.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Why does that bring up images in my mind a la A Clockwork Orange?

That would explain my penchant for Beethoven.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

I think that Moore raises some interesting points but his sensationalism and sketchy methods always disgust me. I will not pay money for a ticket but will catch it on HBO the next time I'm in the hospital.

User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko", and not about the man behind it (Michael Moore).

So you're asking for a thread of nothing but yes or no answers? That's brilliant!  sarcastic 

And no, I will not be paying to see the movie.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26691 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

I plan on seeing it. Then again, I also plan on seeing the new Die Hard, Waitress and one or both of the movies about Paris that are out. I have divergent tastes.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
So you're asking for a thread of nothing but yes or no answers? That's brilliant! sarcastic

LOL

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko"

It's pretty clear that this is "a discussion about the movie "Sicko".

Don't see anything limiting it to yes/no answers. Just to the movie itself.


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
one or both of the movies about Paris

 confused   confused   confused   confused 





User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Nope, I have more productive things to do with my time. It will probably say something along the lines of Mr. Moore doesn't like the health care system we have. If he thinks this is the most productive thing he can do to change it, fine. Like his other movies, it should not be mistaken for fact, though.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
It's pretty clear that this is "a discussion about the movie "Sicko".

Don't see anything limiting it to yes/no answers. Just to the movie itself.

The title of his thread is "Who's Going to See It?" and then he caveats it with a request not to talk about Michael Moore. Sounds like yes or no answers to me unless the OP wrote a misleading title. Plus I would also contend you can't talk about the movie without having points, pro or con, about Moore come into the equation. See it however you want to see it. Goodness knows you'll just overcompensate with one of your silly little pictures of a baby crying or something.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
The title of his thread is "Who's Going to See It?" and then he caveats it with a request not to talk about Michael Moore.

Yet he explicitly states:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko",

It is quite clear. There is no room for interpretation. Again:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko",

Is that difficult to comprehend?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
See it however you want to see it.

I'll see it how it is written, which is:

Quoting AC773 (Thread starter):
This is a discussion about the movie "Sicko",



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
you'll just overcompensate with one of your silly little pictures of a baby crying or something.



User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
The GITMO scene BTW is a key example of the typical garbage in US politics these days. People complain that we aren't treating the detainees well enough. When the Govt points out how well the detainees are treated, Mr. Moore has a hissy fit about it. Typical puerile no win garbage.

That's not the point at all. The point of showing this is that millions of US-citizens don't have access to good health care because they can't afford it, and yet the detainees in Guantanamo get top-notch medical care. Moore tried to get access to these facilities with the group of sick people he had with him and was denied, then he went to Havana where they got excellent medical treatment from the doctors in a hospital - Cuba is known to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world. It was also to show that the US government's fear of socialism and socialist healthcare has contributed to the currrent situation in the United States, compared to the systems in countries like Canada, the UK and France.

I know that Moore is biased and has done everything to show the worst side of US healthcare but I personally think that it was a brilliant documentary which has some excellent points. Yes, I have it on DVD.

[Edited 2007-06-28 05:32:45]

User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
The title of his thread is "Who's Going to See It?" and then he caveats it with a request not to talk about Michael Moore.

If you started a thread about the latest (heck, any) Michael Moore movie, wouldn't you expect the usual crowd to come in and say how much they like / loathe / "he has some points" / "he's a total loon" / whatever Mr. Moore? This is a thread about the film itself, and I'm more than happy to have MDorBust, Queso, et al voice their grievances about it - but at the same time - the disclaimer was just a little hijacking insurance.  Smile

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
You'll know what I'm talking about. Mr. Moore and cronies load up a trio of boats to head off to Cuba.

Yes, obviously they flew....what bearing does that have on the rest of the film? Any director worth their salt would have done the same; it's a device to simplify the timeline while maintaining some level of continuity.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 20):

As expected. Glad you're consistent as a one trick pony.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 22):
the disclaimer was just a little hijacking insurance.

And when was the last time that worked with the folks here on A.net? My point is that you can't divorce the film from the film maker in the case of a documentary, especially in this case. Otherwise you end up getting one word answers of yes or no which is lame. Any other discourse on the movie sucking or being great can only lead down the flamewar path between left and right.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 22):
Yes, obviously they flew....what bearing does that have on the rest of the film?

It shows Moore to mislead the viewer into thinking they struggled mightily against the Florida Straights to get to Gitmo when in fact they flew to Cuba quite easily.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 22):
Any director worth their salt would have done the same; it's a device to simplify the timeline while maintaining some level of continuity.

Simplify the timeline? Maintain continuity? Just get on a plane and fly to Cuba or better yet don't even bother showing the transportation involved since it isn't germaine to the documentary's purpose.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
And when was the last time that worked with the folks here on A.net? My point is that you can't divorce the film from the film maker in the case of a documentary, especially in this case. Otherwise you end up getting one word answers of yes or no which is lame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be working now...

Have we seen more than just "yes or no" answers? Absolutely.
Have we seen personal comments about Moore? I haven't.
Are people (mostly) discussing the film and its issues? Yes.

Ironically, this discussion about my disclaimer is hijacking the thread. I've made my points, so I'll let you have the last word if you like.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
It shows Moore to mislead the viewer into thinking they struggled mightily against the Florida Straights to get to Gitmo

There were many comedic and tongue-in-cheek moments in the film; I interpreted this as one of them and moved on. The waters between Miami and Guantanamo Bay are not known as being difficult to cross.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
Just get on a plane and fly to Cuba or better yet don't even bother showing the transportation involved since it isn't germaine to the documentary's purpose.

If showing the trip to Cuba isn't pertinent, then why should anyone care if the details of such a trip are substituted?



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

I haven't seen it yet. I rarely go to the movie theater, so I'll probably watch it on DVD when it comes out. I seriously doubt that it will change my mind on America's health care system, but I'll watch it anyway.

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
People complain that we aren't treating the detainees well enough. When the Govt points out how well the detainees are treated, Mr. Moore has a hissy fit about it. Typical puerile no win garbage.

He's not throwing a hissy fit because prisoners have health care but because some Americans don't enjoy the same care. That's fundamentally different.



I support the right to arm bears
25 MDorBust : Of course he was denied. That's why the scene is so ridiculous. Seriously, does anyone here actually think a secure military installation is going to
26 Post contains images NoUFO : I'm happy you consider them POWs. But I don't wish to start just another discussion on Gitmo. In this particular case all Moore says is that prisoner
27 Asturias : I have seen it and it was quite entertaining. I think the best description of this film was made earlier in this thread, when someone said it was more
28 DeltaGator : Because it is an attempt to mislead. Granted, it's not my film but I would have just said that we took these folks to Cuba in search of medical treat
29 TheCol : If Moore actually gave an objective view on the universal system in Canada, you would be a little more cautious about emulating it. To an extent. How
30 FlyingTexan : And they would have no problem sending a bill. Don't all hospitals have a "no denial policy" as a matter of federal law? Anyone? Money should never e
31 AC773 : To MDorBust & DeltaGator: At this point, I might type a quick reminder of the goal of the film but actually, I've already done that. Lucky me.
32 Asturias : I know, but it works. It may not be perfect, but it does deliver what it promises. It is of course nothing like the utopia seen in Sicko, that's for
33 Post contains links Falcon84 : Fine. Apparently, he's pretty spot-on with his facts in the movie. http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html In other words, h
34 AC773 : Since Falcon's bumped the thread anyway, I thought I'd clarify something. I watched the film again today on its official debut, and in the last part w
35 MaidensGator : EMTALA requires that emergency rooms stabilize all patients who present in an emergent condition. Doesn't help a lot if you have a chronic illness th
36 Falcon84 : What does that mean?
37 FlyingTexan : To "bump" means to take an older, dying thread and "bump" it toward the top by making a post or reply. Note how there is 1 day + 8 hours between your
38 NorthStarDC4M : exactly, he actually went there via Mexico (Cancun specifically i think?) and flew on AeroMexico as i recall, that was all a big thing when he announ
39 StarAC17 : He's not objective in his films however he doesn't give false information. I read in TIME that he will pay $50,000 to whoever can disprove any of the
40 LH423 : No, as someone already said, he makes a little joke of it. Plus, one would have to be really gullible to believe that they were going to Cuba in smal
41 AC888YOW : I just saw the film. He mentions the Canadian system as if it's the cat's ass, but he fails to mention things like: - waiting hours at the hospital to
42 AirTran737 : I will not see any of Mr. Moore's movies, they are extremely biased and one sided. It pains me to think that people form their beliefs around the shit
43 Mike89406 : First no I wont watch it. Secondly Universal health Care may not even work in the USA unless they come up with some brilliant idea. Its no secret ther
44 L-188 : Clearly violating the emabargo of that communist country and clear threat to the freedom of the western hemisphere. He should have been arrested when
45 FlyingTexan : Its amazing that most posters here claiming Moore's work consists of "lies" support a war mongering administration full of criminals built on lies.
46 Post contains links Max999 : No need to go to the theaters to see it...the movie is online legally at this website. http://insanefilms.com/?p=413
47 DeltaGator : So in your thought process we can't call Moore out for his propaganda techniques without somehow being a shill of the Bush Administration? How pathet
48 FlyingTexan : You missed a key word in that statement.
49 DeltaGator : Most? Is that the word you claim I missed? If so that just gives you a convenient little out when challenged. Again, pathetic.
50 San747 : Actually, if one does support the Bush Administration or his policies and rationalizes it to people by giving the same drivel about Michael Moore is
51 Mike89406 : Than " target=_blank>http://insanefilms.com/?p=413 Thanks even against my better judgement I watched it Parts 1 & 2 without supporting Michael Moore a
52 DeltaGator : Then turn the channel. It is quite possible unless you have no fingers or expect the government to do it for you. I did it a while back and haven't l
53 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Having not seen any of his films, you're not in much of a position to form a belief from them yourself. I'll download it for my LAX-CDG flight on Wed
54 Post contains links San747 : Touche. I will admit you're right on that point. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=19&media_outlet_id=2 A media watchdog compilation of various susp
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