AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2097 times:
This is just sick.
"The former French president François Mitterrand supported the perpetrators of the 1994 Rwandan genocide despite clear warnings that mass killings of the Tutsi population were being orchestrated, according to declassified French documents."
"The documents, obtained by lawyers for six Tutsi survivors who are bringing a case against France for "complicity with genocide'' at the Paris Army Tribunal, suggest the late President Mitterrand's support for the Hutus was informed by an obsession with maintaining a French foothold in the region."
SW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6506 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 1): But most of all its not what the west did - its what the west DID NOT do. They did not put human lives above their own want for resources. They did not champion the humanitarian causes.
Having lived in "the east" and "the west", it is clear that most Westerners just simply don't care about Africa. Well, a few do, and everyone pretends they do or they want to, but, in reality...they have to look out for number 1. And I don't blame them, everyone the world over looks out for number 1, but...it is one thing to look out for number 1, and another thing to just completely turn your back on an entire continent and act like they don't matter just because it benefits you, or because they are poor, or because they "treat each other so horribly" as I have heard from more than a couple people. So, in conclusion, I must agree with you 100% on your statement.
I don't think there are resources to be gained, and that's the thing...what do they have to gain from helping? Not a lot...it may be moral and all that, but moral doesn't pay the bills. Same thing happens in most countries (for example, my countries cooperation with Mugabe's Zimbabwe...we all know he's a monster, but my government has decided it's worse for us to not work with Zimbabwe because of the economic impact the loss of relations would have)
YOWza From South Africa, joined Jul 2005, 5042 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2026 times:
Quoting SW733 (Reply 5): I don't think there are resources to be gained, and that's the thing...what do they have to gain from helping?
Bingo! Had their been anything worth exploiting your can bet every western power would be there and would have been active. It's a real shame. I had the pleasure of meeting Romeo Dallaire in Ottawa a couple of years ago, I have never felt so small in my life.
SW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6506 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2014 times:
Quoting YOWza (Reply 6): Bingo! Had their been anything worth exploiting your can bet every western power would be there and would have been active. It's a real shame. I had the pleasure of meeting Romeo Dallaire in Ottawa a couple of years ago, I have never felt so small in my life.
Many kids I know still think nothing of Africa. Ill bring up the subject in a class conversation on the state of the world or something in school, and the typical response to any topic on Africa from either a student or a teacher (unexcuseable) is that it simply doesnt matter, because "its Africa". And, man, lemme tell ya, its effed up, wrong, hypocritical, and it makes me angry that they can simply look over so many people.
How can we, the United States of America, the United Kingdom, any rich western power, say we believe in humanitarian causes when we display such conduct as we did in Rwanda? Its high time, I think, to prove it.
"If we believe all humans are human, then how are we going to prove it? It can only be proven through our actions." - Romeo Dallaire
Too true, too true.
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 9): Is it only me that gets the hipocrisy of some of those powers-that-be that criticized our actions in Iraq, when by their own inaction, 800,000 died?
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1978 times:
as was mentioned, i think everyone should read Shake Hands With the Devil, by Dallaire. Its a fantastic read, and gives you the impression that no one wanted to help these people except most of the commanders on the ground, and probably the personnel as well. People in washington/new york bickering about who's going to pay for the gas for APCs to protect targets for assasinations was just one thing that sticks in my mind about the west's indifference towards this, and pisses me off.
Its unfortunate that 13 years later, nothing much has really changed. The UN was not held accountable(who would do that?), western nations just kinda wiped their hands of it. We don't hear about it much these days, and even if we do, its nothing of substance.
BHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1923 times:
One of our clients pals from Northern Ireland runs a charity in Rwanda called Food for Though. Basically the kids get fed and can take food home to their families, but only after they have completed several hours of schooling each day.
He said that they have also made great strides knocking heads together, basically saying to these people that you aren't Hutus or Tutsis, you're RWANDAN, and he feels the message is sinking in. However, this was a decade ago, and I would think that reconciliation rather than lawsuits are the better way forward.
Everyone agrees that the whole Rwanda situation was terrible and "something" should have been done, but you only have to see how much "action" is being done to resolve the situation in the Sudan.
Quoting JAL777 (Reply 8): Quoting SW733 (Reply 2):
Having lived in "the east" and "the west", it is clear that most Westerners just simply don't care about Africa.
Having also live in "the east" and "the west," it is clear most Africans simply don't care about Africa either.
As an 8 year North Africa resident, I second that.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1879 times:
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 15): The worse is that we pay billions to the Africans and Merkel says we want to help , but we still ruin the farmers in Africa with our Agrar Subventions !
This is criminal !
OK. since ag policy is something I know a little about, just how do European farm subsidies ruin African farmers? What subsidies are we talking about, anyway?
I mean, I've heard all the arguments that US farm subsidies are attempting to cram GMOs down the throats of third world farmers in their loincloths and ruin them financially. It's a remarkably simplisticviewpoint about a complex issue but there it is.
How did "The West" factor into all of this? The only country I see mentioned in the opening post is France.
Quoting SW733 (Reply 2): it is clear that most Westerners just simply don't care about Africa.
I don't. Tell me why I should.
Quoting SW733 (Reply 2): and everyone pretends they do or they want to
I don't, and I don't make it any secret. It's a resource-rich continent, and it's inhabitants are capable of having anything "The West" has if they stop their infighting and put their minds to developing what they have.
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1829 times:
Regarding the situation with Africa and the former colonial powers, because thats where most of the blame is pointed, people seem to forget the eagerness that Africa had to get rid of them. Without the stabilising influence of Britain, France et al, Africa has largely been left to it's own devices and the resulting chaos and mayhem has a lot to do with this.
I firmly believe that if the colonial withdrawl from Africa had been slower and more coordinated then Africa would'nt be in nearly half as bad a condition as it is today. However, they did withdraw pretty fast post-war and the result is the misery and strife we see just about anywhere in Africa today.
As for France condoning the murders of thousands of Rwandans, that doesn't surprise me as the French have always been reluctant to let any colony go and tend to treat their former citizens as less than human. Although I don't think any of us are totally whiter than white in that respect.