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Micheal Moore...an Anti-American?  
User currently offlineAA787823 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

I was looking at some of his work, Fahrenheit 9/11, his latest movies Sickos, and for what ever reason this man has it out against this country and its current administration. His views are way to social and "left" for this country. In his latest movie he continually compares us to social countries and their social health care system, which I hope we NEVER do in this country. I had found an interesting article on FOX news.com last week about him, but I cant find it now.

165 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEric From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting AA787823 (Thread starter):
His views are way to social and "left" for this country

So much for the land of the free and free speech...


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting AA787823 (Thread starter):
His views are way to social and "left" for this country.

God forbid people be allowed their own views! That'd be, like, freedom of speech and stuff....  crazy 



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

Quoting Eric (Reply 1):

So much for the land of the free and free speech...



Quoting Banco (Reply 1):

God forbid people be allowed their own views! That'd be, like, freedom of speech and stuff....

Oh, so you guys are suppressing his views now? So much for the land of free speech...

Anyway, yeah, his views do tend to make him pretty much anti-American since well...what he's pretty much said so far is pretty anti-American.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11650 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

Why is it every time Michael Moore puts out a film, everyone from the Right comes out saying how anti-American he is? Anyone trying to say Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity was anti-American when Clinton was in power was laughed at and told the Republican pundits were just exercising their First Amendment rights. So, Michael Moore is a terrorist for exercising his First Amendment rights? I simply do not buy into his films, I have never seen any of his movies, therefore, I have not given him any of my hard earned dollars. Plus, I exercise MY First Amendment rights be defending someone no matter how whacked out I think their views are. Plus, we all know most media outlets are not fair and balanced, so quoting one article from FOX will not help your cause just like simply quoting one article from MSNBC will not help anyone either.

GO CANUCKS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

It is a stupid thing to say that certain views make someone "anti-American" especially just because he thinks that America can do better with regard to health care. The majority of Americans do not watch Fox news, and therefor I think that Fox does not represent the "American" point of view.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 3):
Anyway, yeah, his views do tend to make him pretty much anti-American since well...what he's pretty much said so far is pretty anti-American.

Great Logic  Yeah sure



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 3):
...what he's pretty much said so far is pretty anti-American.

Will you please tell me what you mean by "anti-American"? Can you please define it in such a way that we can use your definition to label everyone anti or pro American?

It would be most useful for this discussion.

Thank you,

MBM


User currently offlineEric From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 3):
Oh, so you guys are suppressing his views now? So much for the land of free speech...

Firstly, I am not American, so technically I am not supressing his views. Secondly, I am, and I assume Banco, only making a general statement as to what is written in your constitution about American classifying itself as the land of the free and free speech.

Just because Michael Moore does not agree with the current government: how does that make him anti-American? You can't just call someone anti-American for only disagreeing [M. Moore]. By your logic, anyone who is not for the US, is against it. Now, where have I heard that rhetorical thinking being used before...


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

So he's anti-American because he doesn't like Bush or his policies? Wow, that's so.... 2002. I thought the US had moved on from that whole 'anyone who disagrees with the president is anti-American' rhetoric. Guess some are still stuck in the past...

User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8453 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3468 times:
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Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 3):
Quoting Eric (Reply 1):

So much for the land of the free and free speech...

Quoting Banco (Reply 1):

God forbid people be allowed their own views! That'd be, like, freedom of speech and stuff....

Oh, so you guys are suppressing his views now? So much for the land of free speech...

Repeat after me..... SARCASM. learn to recognise it.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
Why is it every time Michael Moore puts out a film, everyone from the Right comes out saying how anti-American he is? Anyone trying to say Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity was anti-American when Clinton was in power was laughed at and told the Republican pundits were just exercising their First Amendment rights. So, Michael Moore is a terrorist for exercising his First Amendment rights?

That's because to the Right, whenever someone is critical of American government or society, they automatically "hate America."

Look I don't agree with Moore on everything he says but there's certain points that he makes which are somewhat valid. I haven't seen Sicko yet but as far as 9/11 there were a couple things which I agreed with him on and some things that I didn't. Why is it that the Right has to have this black or white, knee-jerk reaction: "OMG HEZ ANTI-AMERICAN!!!" rather than just coosing to just disagree. Challenging society has been part of the history of this country so don't call him "anti-American" for doing it.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineEric From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 9):
Repeat after me..... SARCASM. learn to recognise it.

Sarcasm does not work in an internet forum when emocation is not used... How should I know if he is being sarcastic or not.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 5):
The majority of Americans do not watch Fox news, and therefor I think that Fox does not represent the "American" point of view.

Actually, Fox has the highest ratings of all the news channels. There are more FoxNews viewers in the USA than CNN, MSNBC and CNBC viewers combined.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 3):
Anyway, yeah, his views do tend to make him pretty much anti-American since well...what he's pretty much said so far is pretty anti-American.

I find this whole "Anti-American" thing weirdly fascinating. It's hard to think of a more perfectly suited way try to stifle debate and freedom of speech than to automatically declare dissenters somehow disloyal to the nation. The KGB recognised such methods, using crimes against the state to cover these things - "dissidents" was the term used, if I recall correctly. Now, obviously, there's no crime here, but it is precisely the same mentality.

I've never come across anything similar in other free countries, yet the US is extremely closely wedded to the right of freedom of speech, enshrined in its constitution. I wonder how on earth such contradictions can arise. It's like the McCarthy era all over again.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

Michael Moore is a ton more American compared to the criminals currently in charge.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 6):
Will you please tell me what you mean by "anti-American"? Can you please define it in such a way that we can use your definition to label everyone anti or pro American?

It would be most useful for this discussion.

From what I observe, "Anti-American" seems to be anything remotely straying from a blind Bush follower. Since this administration is all about exploting and trumping 9/11, if one dare offers a dissenting view or criticism, they are labeled "Anti-American" and/or "pro-terrorist."


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

The only thing I have to say about this guy is that Michael Moore is that he does not represent the views of this country and the only views he puts in those movies...ahem...documentaries are only his OWN views.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

As far as Michael Moore is concerned, I think he is an hypocritical, idiotic, twit of a media whore, but I support his right to say anything he wants. I don't think he is dangerous, as most thinking people just ignore him.

User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 8):
So he's anti-American because he doesn't like Bush or his policies

At that rate more than 50% of the US is... anti-American.

I do not like Moore.

I do not like zealots from the right either.

And am not even mentioning Bush lapdogs.



Take off and live
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3391 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
...he does not represent the views of this country...

And who, pray tell, represents the "views of this country"?

To make a statement like this reflects a fundamental ignorance of what the American form of government is about. There is no single view in this country. There are many views, philosophies, convictions that compete with each other in the market place of ideas. Our form of government accommodates differing opinions, and attempts to mete out decisions that afford fairness and even-handedness to as large a degree as is possible.

If you really think there is an official American viewpoint, dude, then I might question how pro-America you are.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39879 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

If Michael Moore was anti-America, he would just pack his bags and leave. Michael Moore is NOT anti-American I consider him to be a brave patriot. He is simply pointing out certain areas in which we can improve on. You don't have to agree with him on everything.


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
If you really think there is an official American viewpoint, dude, then I might question how pro-America you are.

Now that is what I call a perfect answer!

Namely, our system is designed so as to being able to manage multiplicity of views and opinions.



Take off and live
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8453 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3375 times:
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Quoting Eric (Reply 11):
Sarcasm does not work in an internet forum when emocation is not used... How should I know if he is being sarcastic or not.

He quoted you, I thought you were the one being sarc.... oh never mind, I give up.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

I don't think he's a patriot and I don't believe he's anti-american either,hell he's profiting from the system,I do not agree with him much at all but i am 100% for his right to do so. Calling him or Limbaugh or anyone else in this arena an idiot or jackass doesn't add a thing to the discussion.. Just my  twocents 

User currently offlineJfk69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

I don't think he is Anti-American per say......I just think he is a shitty filmmaker who makes movies that people just don't care about anymore.

User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 12):
Actually, Fox has the highest ratings of all the news channels. There are more FoxNews viewers in the USA than CNN, MSNBC and CNBC viewers combined.

Actually they don't LOL. Fox news is a laughing stock among informed people anyway.


Michael Moore (although I don't agree with much of his viewpoint) is more "American" than 97% of US citizens that don't participate in our national dialogue. At least he is speaking his mind and participating in the national policy as opposed to watching a former Hollywood "newsmagazine rag" Inside Edition host (Bill O'Really" who has made quite the career playing the lap dog for the conservatives.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Edition


All that reporting on Hollywood made him the perfect lackey!


25 UH60FtRucker : Who cares... the guy has pretty much become unimportant and inconsequential: No one is watching. And where is the same hype as his past films? The guy
26 Solarix : Michael Moore is NOT anti-American. He is just a GREEDY man out to make a buck like the rest of the crooks in Hollywood.
27 Klaus : He is an american. So he represents one view of the country. As do you. You may well think that he's a scumbag. But a german scumbag would still have
28 Post contains images Superfly : did you mean Washington DC....err........New York?
29 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : I won't be watching it either but the man is entitled to his opinion that's for sure. I agree with UH60, if you don't like it don't watch it, which i
30 Post contains images AirframeAS : Certainly not his. He does not speak for me. You sound like you are his biggest fan.
31 Itsnotfinals : Just like you don't speak for MM, that is what is so good about our country, we are free to be ourselves and have our life and liberty protected as a
32 Post contains images NWA742 : I agree - to an extent. Although Michael Moore is not actively anti or pro American, he's careless. He simply doesn't give two shits about this count
33 AirframeAS : Fair enough. I see your point.
34 Longhornmaniac : Nobody said you had to. Nobody is forcing you to watch him/listen to him/agree with him. However, he has just as much of a right to speak out, critic
35 Post contains images Scorpio : And neither do you, or anybody else for that matter. Even your president no longer truthfully represents the views of your country. And, AFAIK, Moore
36 JRadier : And he said that where? He does not make another movie about how good the US is (of which there are plenty), but he points out some of the things in
37 WrenchBender : Whether you like him or not, what he presents is often thought provoking. If he gets people to actually talk about the issues he brings up in his movi
38 Scorpio : How do you know? If anything, the fact that he criticizes the country and its leadership is the best proof you can get that he, in fact, DOES 'give t
39 Longhornmaniac : Lol. Did they once say he couldn't have his views? No. Did they say he couldn't have his opinion, or try to take it away? No. Merely pointing out tha
40 NWA742 : Uh..........if such a thing were true, do you actually think he would come out and say it? -NWA742
41 Post contains images Mir : I think he does care about the country, but doesn't understand that the problems that we face are very complex and challenging, and can't be boiled d
42 Pyrex : And yet the conservative right still gets all riled up about him...
43 JRadier : Thank you very much for shooting your own statement out of the water! He obviously didn't, so how would you know it are his views? And to answer your
44 Eric : duely noted (noting idiocracy of my own reply), practice as you preach, ey?
45 NWA742 : It's my interpretation based on his attitude and his actions. Or that he's only after money, fame, and hot dogs. Did AA787823 say MM couldn't have hi
46 Post contains images SW733 : Now, I'm not fan of Mikey Moore, but the idea of being un-American simply because he uses one of America's founding principles (free speech)...pretty
47 JRadier : I agree with you, his movies are too simplistic to work one-on-one. However, what he does is show is the complete opposite of what it is now, and by
48 Post contains images NWA742 : So you actually think that a celebrity like MM would actually come out and say "I don't care about this country, I don't have a legitimate cause, ple
49 JRadier : I don't think he would say that, based on the fact that I think (again, think, me) he does care, but it doesn't fit in to his line of film making, so
50 NWA742 : Made up your mind yet? -NWA742
51 LTBEWR : Michael Moore's criticism shows his love and hope that American can be a better country and society. While I don't endorse some of his techniques and
52 JRadier : ok, I'll make it easy: -I don't think that he would say the sentence you posted, because I think he does care about the US (see the rest of my previo
53 Post contains images Klaus : Sometimes the status quo needs a firm kick in the butt in order to get moving. And that is exactly what MM is good at. I don't think he's the right m
54 Bwest : I think Michael Moore must really love America. If he wouldn't care for the US, he wouldn't bother making his documentaries about issues he thinks nee
55 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : Haha. That was funny. Point taken. The argument I was making is that he presented his point of view as a fact of what is best for this country. That
56 NWA742 : Okay, you obviously did not read the ENTIRE original question: "Uh..........if such a thing were true, do you actually think he would come out and sa
57 Longhornmaniac : I think you guys are running circles around each other. JRaider is saying first and foremost that he thinks what you, NWA742, are saying is moot beca
58 NWA742 : A lot of people do, including MM. Personally I don't always feel the need to put the "in my opinion" at the end of things I say - it should be obviou
59 Post contains images NWA742 : I think we are now, but he made the mistake of answering a question he didn't completely comprehend to begin with. Yep, and that "quirky" way was cha
60 JRadier : Point taken, in that case, see line 2. I think he would say it, as it would stir things up.
61 JFK69 : As far as making of the movies go I think I have to disagree. If you look at a lot of the movies, they are kind of set up and edited to come off one
62 Frequentflyer : In principle I agree however if he is the one to point out issues, the style he uses will also determine, among others, his credibility to the issue.
63 Longhornmaniac : LOL. I was talking about MM! Haha. Confusion is funny sometimes. Cheers, Cameron
64 NWA742 : No harm done - just a simple disagreement. I think if it were true that he doesn't care about this country at all, that all he wants is money and fam
65 Post contains images NWA742 : Oh I see now - now that was my bad. -NWA742
66 Post contains images JRadier : I have to agree with Klaus here, I think that what he wants to achieve with his movies is that people start talking about it. How do you do that? Tak
67 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : Your point is taken. I think that, so often in this day and age, a lot of people present things as facts that really aren't. I think people, both Lef
68 Post contains images Klaus : Sure. But where are all the other people making themselves heard about urgent issues in America, hopefully with more taste and credibility? There don
69 Frequentflyer : Let's say they are heard more internally, and not especially in the movies industry. Even if Stone did his thing on Vietnam, Coppolla too. Lou Dobbs
70 N229NW : I'm still squinting and hoping this whole thread is a wind-up joke. I mean, the level of argument in the opening post is...well...hopefully meant only
71 EA CO AS : Michael Moore may be a lot of things - none of which I'll address, since it'll just be name-calling on my part as I don't like the man in the least -
72 WellHung : It's easier to call someone anti-American than to admit you don't want people to have health care because that's what some politician told you to thin
73 Lijnden : Who is still taking him serious? I put him up in the same category as Weird Al Jankovic and Pee Wee Herman, only less original. It is always easy to k
74 EA CO AS : Painting with a mighty big brush these days, aren't we? Why does opposition to national healthcare have to equal being a mind-numbed automaton who on
75 Klaus : I've watched the US media relatively closely in the last years, and the lack of critical reporting in recent years has been frightening (with relativ
76 Daedaeg : The man is not to be taken seriously. Although I wouldn't necessarily call him "anti-american". He's certainly no fan of the US. He may make the euros
77 SW733 : I think a lot of people are missing the obvious...look how much something simple on a simple little aviation forum has us talking about Michael Moore.
78 Post contains images NWA742 : Seems as if there are always individuals anxious to generalize those who don't fit in with their beliefs. Any sensible person knows it doesn't, so do
79 N231YE : I just saw Sicko this past weekend, and am split among my stance: I do agree that Micheal Moore heavily played on the socialism concept, even touching
80 Mir : I was looking at it through the lens of TZ757300's comments to the effect that by arguing the point they are restricting his rights (something I stro
81 Post contains images AirframeAS : Exactly! He is an entertainer who just happens to make movies...ahem...documentaries and reaping in the big bucks!
82 Pilotfox : The sad thing is that Moore brings many important problems to the table, yet because of who he is people will not go see his movie. Thus the problems
83 TheCol : Moore is an political opportunist, who capitalizes on controversy. Anyone who thinks he does it to "improve America" is extremely naive. Ragging on th
84 Frequentflyer : Funny you mentioned this.. it matches the opinion I had before moving to the US. Then 2003 happened and it changed many things, not in the right dire
85 Post contains images ExFATboy : Literally! (Sorry, couldn't resist! ) In all serious, as someone of the moderate, libertarian-trending right, I don't consider Moore anti-American. A
86 Halls120 : Actually, the lack of critical reporting is not just a recent phenomenon. Thanks to the Gannett/USA Today brand of "journalism," finding critical new
87 Post contains images LH423 : But, as the person said, the majority of Americans don't want Fox News. The majority of those that watch cable news, yes, but I highly down 151 milli
88 Post contains images Allstarflyer : He has a right to them, but his ideology is inherently contrarian to the freedoms he espouses, IMO. Ooooh, touche. Nobody's blaming you for the same.
89 Klaus : I think France has its own problems, but the main difference is probably in a decently funded independent public media sector. Our own commercial net
90 Jush : I always thought his comments made him very much American. He loves his country but I think he has some problems with some stuff going on over there.
91 NoUFO : So Europeans and the far left have in common that they are not among the intelligent folks?
92 Klaus : I haven't seen the movie, but the healthcare system in Cuba is actually relatively good for a third-world country. You wouldn't get the ultra-expensi
93 Halls120 : If he'd just try to be a bit more truthful in deliveing his message, it might be more well-received. It's not the colors or layout that bothers me -
94 ExFATboy : Americans tend to be somewhat cynical about "public" broadcasting - instead of the known biases and tendancies of commecial broadcasters, they tend t
95 Post contains images Klaus : The problem is not a left/right bias (which the various ARD stations exhibit as well at times). It is the way in which they're presenting information
96 727lover : Did anyone see him on CNN last night? What a jerk!
97 ExFATboy : That differs from our PBS and NPR in that, while "public" in the sense that they don't have commercials (although some of the sponsorship blurbs are
98 Post contains links Klaus : There are actually some structural similarities; The ARD system actually consists of several regional stations which provide both TV and radio covera
99 Itsjustme : Why do you title his appearance on CNN as that of a jerk? Because he didn't back down but, instead, spoke his mind? All he did was put Wolf Blitzer a
100 Post contains links WestWing : I would encourage people to actually watch the Blitzer/Moore exchange - there are plenty of copies floating on YouTube - not difficult to find. Then,
101 JRadier : Exchange? MM put him in a corner (and rightfully so) and Blitzer tried to get out of there the full interview, to no avail. Yep, MM was very straight
102 LH423 : Couldn't agree more. I think that's why Sicko isn't doing as well as his previous movies. People have finally caught on that a lot of what he present
103 CO7772WUH : Ruled the interview? I think not! Wolf/CNN had no intentions of confronting MM. They allowed him to spew more of his propaganda unabated. As long as
104 WestWing : Exactly. For example, Dr. Gupta's piece said that the movie Sicko says that in Cuba they spend $25 per person and Dr. Gupta very condescendingly poin
105 Halls120 : Actually, his Fahrenheit 911 movie was riddled with factual errors.
106 Roadrunner165 : Micheal Moore...an Anti American? Not Sure... In fact I don't even care. Michael Moore...an Idiot? Yep! Adam
107 Itsjustme : That's Moore's problem in a nutshell. His "creative editing" in Columbine destroyed any credibility he might actually have as far as I'm concerned. I
108 RJdxer : Michael still has to learn how not to bite the hand that feeds you. I'll bet it'll be another 3 years before he is invited back on CNN.[Edited 2007-07
109 Itsjustme : Right. And since when does Wolf Blitzer and/or CNN "feed" Michael Moore? As he said during the CNN interview, he hasn't appeared on that network for
110 Post contains images Halls120 : Actually, I don't think Moore has ever gone hungry.
111 Cedarjet : And you DON'T?!
112 JGPH1A : That, if true, is a tragic indictment in itself. But that's a whole other thread.
113 Scorpio : Tell me, Wuh, what exactly DO you know about 'European' healthcare? Because it's mighty easy to throw around a contextless number, make a few enormou
114 RJdxer : Please. Because as he also said during the interview he was upset with CNN and other mainstream media for not taking his 911 movie seriously. He bit
115 Post contains links CO7772WUH : Enough to know I don't want it here! Too much government intervention/involvement will only promote waste, complacency and result in less adequate ca
116 Scorpio : The expected answer. Nothing it is. I'm sure you'll then explain why: -we spend far less on healthcare per capita than the US; -our healthcare is ava
117 CO7772WUH : Scorpio, There are issues and problems with the US healthcare system. However, what took place in France was a out right catastrophe. Should we overha
118 Post contains images Scorpio : How is worse than what the US now has? Oh, right, the heat wave deaths in France. Yes, that explains all of the above away, doesn't it? Seriously, th
119 Mdsh00 : You can throw around numbers and facts and figures, but it doesn't matter squat because there are different facts and realities in each country that
120 LTBEWR : There is no doubt that MM in 'Sicko' made technical and data mistakes, in part for dramatic license. MM doesn't really discuss the flaws in others sys
121 Scorpio : Actually, if you had followed the conversation, you'd have noticed that it was Co777wuh who tried to 'put down' the entire 'European' health care sys
122 Post contains images JRadier : Geez I've been gone for a day and you start an argument without me? The heat in 2003 was a low point for the healthcare systems in Europe, so that oug
123 Baroque : I cannot recall (and I was there) that anyone called Jonathan Swift anti-British, but he had a fair bit to say about what was wrong. The folk came in
124 Post contains links CO7772WUH : No! You blame them on a category 3 hurricane with a category 5 storm surge in an area below sea level, and local government. However, since both were
125 Scorpio : ...and now let's see your proof that this is the fault of Socialized universal healthcare, as you've been proclaiming, or at least hinting at, in here
126 JRadier : So you blame it on the weather, not on the healthcare system. It's basically the same, you have an unexpected force of nature for which the healthcar
127 PIA777 : Michael Moore is a great American who stands up for people's rights. His movies are always right. I just had a "SICKO" moment (Michael Moore's new mov
128 NoUFO : But this doesn't mean that you could effectively run out of pills, I hope? I ask, because I'm not sure I really understand the "that's all I had left
129 AA777 : How true both of your comments are. The term "anti-american" is so ridiculous- it was really overused in the time period immediately following 9/11.
130 Post contains links Halls120 : Really? http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
131 Post contains links Klaus : No, it does not! CIA - The World Factbook -- Rank Order - Population: And that is only the EU without the european countries which are not (yet) EU m
132 Jhooper : I just saw Sicko. If everything is so hunky dorey in Canada, France, the U.K, and Cuba, as Moore implies, why doesn't he move to one of those countrie
133 Mdsh00 : I stand corrected, but when I was writing that I had more of Western Europe in mind. Sorry, I don't equate Europe as the EU. Regardless of that you s
134 Post contains images Klaus : And you have nothing to say about the actual content? Moore is wealthy and privileged. The wealthy and privileged have always had it great in the USA
135 Post contains images Baroque : An atypical burst of Australian politeness?
136 Scorpio : And nobody says you should have the same system in every state. I suggested it before: nothing stops each state from adapting the principle to suit i
137 Post contains links JRadier : In that case, we might as well use Europe as it is supposed to be used. A defenition of Europe according to www.dictionary.com: 1. a continent in the
138 TheCol : As I said before, Universal Healthcare isn't without it's share of problems as well. Here's the basic issues with the two: Private System (US) Pro's:
139 Scorpio : You're making one crucial error. You're equating the problems with the Canadian system with those of univerdal healthcare as a whole. We here in Belg
140 TheCol : From what I understand, that primarily has to do with the amount of private healthcare institutions in Belgium. According to a EU report, 60% of heal
141 Mir : Because the choice is not between accepting the status quo or leaving the country. It if were, there would never be any progress. -Mir
142 Scorpio : So? Whoever said universal healthcare has to be 100% government-run? It's still universal healthcare, and it doesn't have the problems you mention. I
143 NoUFO : Correct, but this also implies that Americans could have universal healthcare if there was a majority for say: a combination of both, socialized and
144 Klaus : No, that is a misunderstanding. The employer merely collects the social security payments, but he doesn't manage them. They are transferred to the he
145 Jhooper : I realize that, but my point is that if people are still wanting to come (and stay) in this country, we must be doing somthing right. It just annoys
146 RayChuang : I think Moore forgot one big problem with socialized medicine in Canada, France and Great Britain: if you need serious medical care for things like ca
147 NoUFO : Moore doesn't say the USA does nothing right. He doesn't say that it is "so much better" someplace else in the world than it is in the US. He critici
148 Mir : There is nothing wrong with making the point that a certain aspect of a country is flawed, and looking to other countries for inspiration on how to c
149 Yellowstone : Osama bin Laden is anti-American. Michael Moore just has issues with some of the status quo in the US. In fact, his willingness to speak out on pressi
150 Mdsh00 : In the health care systems unit that I took in med school, we only dabbled a little bit about Germany's HC system. I kind of got the system, but from
151 Klaus : Some few (usually larger corporations) do actually offer additional health coverage which you'd normally have to add through private insurance on top
152 Baroque : Fascinating stream of information Klaus, quite absorbing. Have any other countries managed the fix that Aus has developed. First we don't believe in
153 KhelmDTW : He's actually More of an American for exercising his 1st amendment rights to say what he feels. Anyone who says he is anti American, needs to look no
154 Post contains links YYZAeroEng : http://www.ncic.cancer.ca/ncic/inter...5787780_91035796_langId-en,00.html Given those survival rates, I don't think you're SOL. People from around th
155 KhelmDTW : Thats good. In an economics course I took, the professor said that Canadians wait months for health care, and its sub par since everyone gets it. See
156 TheCol : I believe Canada isn't the only country with that problem in their UHC system. I could attest to the opposite. I know plenty of people who couldn't g
157 Scorpio : I repeat: so? It still doesn't make it a problem inherent to universal healthcare, just to the way those countries chose to implement it. And nobody
158 TheCol : I'm only presenting the problems faced by countries with UHC, not just Canada, for an objective viewpoint. My hat is off to Belgium for making it wor
159 Scorpio : It's not like we're the only ones who have a similar system. We didn't 'invent the wheel' here... Probably because the Belgian system is simply too r
160 Socal : Moore, is an IDIOT..........waste of film.......
161 RSWA330 : America's economy is pretty much capitalist, and Michael Moore (from what I've seen is Socialist) which would technically make him anti-American. Now,
162 Scorpio : Um, no. Countries with universal healthcare spend FAR LESS per capita on healthcare than the U.S. Often only half, or even less. That's funny. I live
163 JRadier : Ah great, and exactly WHAT is your source for this? (I keep asking this in this thread, usually from US members, and never get an answer. Do you have
164 Baroque : The Aus drugs system caused the US drug companies such conniptions that they stuck a dreadful clause into the Free (FREE!!!!) trade agreement allowin
165 Halls120 : Fascinating. Americans who criticize Moore for exercising his exercising his First Amendment rights are un-American, according to you, and yet you HA
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