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The Disgraceful Pat Tillman Saga Continues  
User currently offlineAirportSeven From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1524 times:

....and the White House desperately tries to cover up its involvement in the cover up:

"The White House has refused to give Congress documents about the death of former NFL player Pat Tillman, with White House counsel Fred Fielding saying that certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting "implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests."

If any Bush defenders want to rush in here and defend this move, bring it on. Thrill us all with your legal acumen and educate us on George W. Bush's prudent and courageous use of executive privilege.

As for those of you in the military or those who have previously served, I would like to ask you if this is the kind of treatment that you would wish for your loved ones after you made the ultimate sacrifice for America. Would you really want to know that your Commander In Chief was going to lie to your family and the rest of the country about your death for political gain, and then hide behind the claim of executive privilege to try to keep the truth about his lies and deceptions from coming to light?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1508 times:



User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

Quoting AirportSeven (Thread starter):
Thrill us all with your legal acumen and educate us on George W. Bush's prudent and courageous use of executive privilege.

LOL

Question here? Wasnt the public lied to about Tillman's cause of death? First it was enemy fire if im correct, but then a few months later they changed it to Friendly fire correct?, I hope they didnt do it to make this story really sensational sort of like that Jessica Lynch story, wow were we fooled.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

A cover up to the cover up? That's sad.

Quoting AirportSeven (Thread starter):
bring it on

Have we not heard that before?


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Quoting AirportSeven (Thread starter):

"The White House has refused to give Congress documents about the death of former NFL player Pat Tillman, with White House counsel Fred Fielding saying that certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting "implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests."

Anybody expecting any kind of disclosure from this Administration might as well get in line early for the first sale of teleportation units.  Yeah sure

Disgrace is a hopelessly inadequate word to describe what is going on with respect to the Tillman case. I'm still waiting for someone to rush Administration officials and tear the flag from all of their lapels.  ashamed 



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offline747srule From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1450 times:

Not to be abrasive,but Tillman or anyone else in the military HAS GOT TO KNOW that death in any form is synonomous with war.When I served as a U.S. Marine infantryman,that thought was ALWAYS in the back of my mind.


Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

Why does this shock or surprise anyone anymore? This Administration's entire m/o anymore is hide, hide, hide. They go to any means to hide everything they can from the Congress and from the American people. The new symbol of the President of the United States, and of the Vice President shouldn't be these:





It's this:



I truly home whoever the next POTUS is, signs an executive order opening up all the documents this administration has hidden from us, and what they were hiding. Sensitive material, and those that might endanger national security need only be seen by Congress. The rest should be opened up to the American people, to see what kind of losers they have had running the nation the last 7 years.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
I truly home whoever the next POTUS is, signs an executive order opening up all the documents this administration has hidden from us, and what they were hiding. Sensitive material, and those that might endanger national security need only be seen by Congress.

Same here. Can't wait for that! But it will be scary!


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 7):
Same here. Can't wait for that! But it will be scary!

How much you wanna bet it'll make the Nixon administration appear saintly in comparison?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 8):
How much you wanna bet it'll make the Nixon administration appear saintly in comparison?

No bet here. I have no doubt of it.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

No wonder all the Al-Qaeda scare talk lately...the latest revelations of the Tillman Case is now threatening to be the Bush Admins next 'Katrina-style' albatross. It now looks like Tillman was murdered at near point blank range..and a 3-Star General is being thrown under the bus.

AP: New details on Tillman's death

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070727/ap_on_re_us/tillman_friendly_fire

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead... ... The doctors � whose names were blacked out � said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

General faces demotion in Tillman case

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/tillman_p...;_ylt=Al25p9hUOIjdkUwjmab5mLZH2ocA

Replies like 'reply#1' are deeply disturbing.. it suggest that certain above average intelligent individuals in this country are prepared to accept information as first glance and that's good enough.. no need to discuss, question or contest anything tossed out as 'the official version'.

My words on April 23, 2004 when this story broke...
AZ Cardinals' Pat Tillman Killed In Afghanistan (by EA CO AS Apr 23 2004 in Non Aviation)#1

"...heck as far as we know he could have gotten into a beef with another soldier and in heat of battle the disgruntled soldier 'got even' this kinda shit has been happening in war since the Roman Empire. It took all day 'the details' of his death to be declassified' and released...usually with everyone else it's instantaneous!"

Comments hurled at me for saying that...

"He was killed in enemy action. I think we'll take the DOD's word over yours, my friend. Your statement was insulting, to say the least."

"And, as bitter and cynical as you are, you immediately think he died some other way, even though he was in an advance unit, even though his unit, The Rangers, do the most dangerous work on the ground. You, not me, my friend, immediately believe the opposite. That's not just a healthy dose of skepticism, that's just outright cynicism, of the worst sort.

"You believe you delusion. I suspect, knowing what I know about the Army Rangers, and the fact there has been a spring offensive going on up there, Mr. Tillman died, exactly the way the information was released."

...no, he did not die the way the told us.. the man was murdered, and they knew it from jump street--


This case (thanks to the Tillman Family's unrelenting pursuit to get the facts of their son's demise) threatens to tests just how many people will fall on swords to 'hide from exposing all those who beat their chest in pride of 'Tillman Dying for his Country' .. when they knew full well that the man was killed intentionally by his own fellow soldiers. Is there a limit to the lies this Admin has tried to dance it's way out of?


BN747

[Edited 2007-07-27 10:01:20]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1297 times:

Traditionally, "friendly fire" causes the deaths of anywhere between 15% and 25% of all casualties. This has been true ever since the invention of artillery and guns. And traditionally, you don't seperate those lives and put them publicly in the "useless death" category, you honor their memery by saying they died in combat along with the others. I think that is the right thing to do. Bush did not invent the policy.

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13031 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Friendly fire deaths do occur in military operations, that has happened for millenniums and is something very difficult for the public to accept. We all know the political pressures surrounding even to Military officers in such situations, compounded by what is a publicly unpopular war in Iraq, to have 'heros' that died at the hands of the enemy to help counter that unpopularity.
Most probably these punishments are the best one can expect in the context of the current political and military situation in Iraq and Afghanistan as well by politicians and Pentagon leaders. There is a deep fear from politicians of coming down too hard on the officers who made the decisions as to handling of Tillman's death and fellow officers are going to be VERY reluctant to punish their fellow officers as well. That is a reality of life during wartime.
Pat Tillman died during a military operation. That he died of friendly fire, something that is a reality of all military actions, should not diminish his death in military service.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1268 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
I truly home whoever the next POTUS is, signs an executive order opening up all the documents this administration has hidden from us, and what they were hiding.

Nah, won't ever happen. Sets a precedent no administration would want used against them later.....



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 12):
Friendly fire deaths do occur in military operations, that has happened for millenniums and is something very difficult for the public to accept



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
Traditionally, "friendly fire" causes the deaths of anywhere between 15% and 25% of all casualties. This has been true ever since the invention of artillery and guns.



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
you honor their memery by saying they died in combat a

All of that would be true were the evidenced to end there--but you guys reading the articles with eyes-wide shut doesn't cut it here...

First, the Admin said it was 'during an 'enemy ambush engagement'...

Then it became a ' friendly fire' incident...

Then it became a cold blooded murder... which they knew it was immediately after it occurred.

No LE investigator in the world would let you change your story that many times and so dramatically and let you walk. Do you think for a minute a 3-Star General is being demoted for 'Friendly Fire'?...seriously???


The man was shot 3 times right in the forehead from approx. 10 meters with an M-16! That.. is an execution..not friendly fire, not even close-

All the evidence is immediately destroyed as is his uniform and his brother kept at bay..exactly the same manner in which a criminal attempts to hide his tracks...where do you guys get 'friendly fire' in this?


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

You know all this crap about Mr.Tillman's death was creepy from the beginning. When I heard that Mr.Tillman had quit the NFL to join Ranger I was stunned and humbled. The word hero does not apply to this guy , he is just in a class all of his own and a damn good example to young men in this country. He did not want publicity and as recollect actually resisted the press. The effort in the beginning by the press to tell his story and publicize it made me uncomfortable. I did not want to see another .. "Elvis" like soldier boy story. Tillman was one hard core guy and had a clear vision of his responsibilities above making money. A conviction that truly is low in supply in this country now.

The same feeling that I had of over publicising his joining Ranger is the same way I feel about people who want to use his death for political hatchet work now. I guess maybe I just dont want to know all the details of how he died ! At the same time I resent the over publication by ESPN,NFL , and all the other blowers for squeezing every drop out for ratings.

As far as the administration goes what the fuck what the President supposed to do ... Say that he was blown away by friendly fire ... Friendly fire kills you the same as unfriendly fire ... I dont ever recall the president making up some dramatic story of a heroic death . The critics of the President accuse him of using Tillman's death for a cheap publicity stunt .. its not any different than what they are doing now.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20365 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
You know all this crap about Mr.Tillman's death was creepy from the beginning.

And now it looks like a general will lose a star over it. When will these folks learn? Just tell the truth.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1194 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
And now it looks like a general will lose a star over it. When will these folks learn? Just tell the truth.

No, you don't. All casualties should be publicly attributed to combat. Anything else should be the business of the military's internal affairs to judge whether a death is actually murder, and only if they are ready to file charges should such an investigation ever to be made public.

Thanks to this story, Tillman's family will live the rest of their lives with a big chip on their shoulders, instead of being proud of him.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20365 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1194 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
No, you don't.

No I don't what? You're making zero sense.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1181 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
No I don't what? You're making zero sense.

I disagree that you should automatically tell the truth to the public about friendly fire casualties. Nothing good comes of it, and it is demoralizing. Everyone knows that it happens, but it is better to keep it in the abstract as much as possible.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20365 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1181 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
I disagree that you should automatically tell the truth to the public about friendly fire casualties.

No wonder you have no problem with Gonzales lying to Congress then. It's all coming together now. Thanks.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1157 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
No, you don't. All casualties should be publicly attributed to combat.

Casualties...? yes

MURDER - ABOSLUTELY NOT!

That's why Marines on trial for raping and killing that girl and her family in Iraq. It's murder--point blank. So you're saying our servicemen deserve less (justice). Or you're saying that the marines who participated in that rape/murder case whould not be tried. Which is it? You can't have it both ways---

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Thanks to this story, Tillman's family will live the rest of their lives with a big chip on their shoulders, instead of being proud of him.

That's the most warped sense of logic I've ever seen from an grown man...

His FAMILY are the ones who keep digging for the truth and DRIVING this story. And they are very proud of their son (what on earth makes you think they aren't?), at thsi moment, they're not very proud of how their country used their son's death to drum up Patriotic fervor WHEN the drummers knew his death was NOT heroic..but cold-blooded murder. Inwhich they blatantly lied about, then (officers) sent congratulatory emails to each other on how great a job the did of hiding the truth! You're saying you would rather his parents (family) swallow the lies surrounding their son's death and smile and wave a flag...! You've completely lost it fella...

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
I disagree that you should automatically tell the truth to the public about friendly fire casualties. Nothing good comes of it, and it is demoralizing.

Unbelievable...sheer madness.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1146 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
MURDER - ABOSLUTELY NOT!

Do you have the evidence? What bullets caused his wounds - were they from AK-47s or from American bullets? If the bullets were American, that means one of his close buddies did it, and it should be very easy for authorities to tell which one. What were his reasons for it? Have charges been brought up?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
That's why Marines on trial for raping and killing that girl and her family in Iraq. It's murder--point blank.

As I recall, of the two such incidents I have heard of, one resulted in long prison terms for the soldiers involved, and the other incident, it was proven, never happened.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
His FAMILY are the ones who keep digging for the truth and DRIVING this story.

Of course they would, if they heard what they heard.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
Inwhich they blatantly lied about, then (officers) sent congratulatory emails to each other on how great a job the did of hiding the truth!

Source?


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1142 times:

I can honestly say ... having people close to me and my family serving their now. I would not want to know ... go ahead and make up a story about how they saved the day and died honourably. Pathetic I know , but living with the thought of their death being a mistake seems like a long road of pain and second guessing.

The only people that needed to know the details are his family if they want to , thats it . No one that I know of ever made up a story ?? Am I wrong ? Did the Army make up some false story ? Other than just saying he died in action on hill whatever wherever ?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
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