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What Happens To Foreigner Critics Of Chavez  
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

"President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country."

"How long are we going to allow a person _ from any country in the world _ to come to our own house to say there's a dictatorship here, that the president is a tyrant, and nobody does anything about it?" Chavez asked

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070723/twl-venezuela-chavez-1be00ca.html

Yeah, you go Chavo! How dare some suggest you are turning into a dictatorship!  sarcastic 

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Yet another confirmation that El Chavo del Ocho is revoking freedom of speech in Venezuela and that his de-facto dictatorship is turning into a full dictatorship.

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Hugo Chavez is the best that ever happened to Venezuela! I don't live there and I don't have a clue about politics but I'm at an age when it's cool to shock your parents, so VIVA CHAVEZ! Hasta la victoria siempre!
Signed, LHStarAllaince

Seriously now, I've been to Venezuela several times in the 80s and early 90s and from my memories it was a beautiful modern country. I lived in Ecuador at that time and going to Colombia or Venezuela was like leaving the third world and entering big modern countries. It started at the border, it was like entering a whole different world. Now it's the opposite I suppose.

Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2770 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):
"President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country."

Reminiscent of when our own dictator, er, I mean Decider said, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
El Chavo del Ocho

Yes, you got it! I think that is his new nickname.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):
Reminiscent of when our own dictator, er, I mean Decider said, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".

Please, don't try to sound like Chavez. Has GWB even kicked out or suggested kicking disenters out of the country?

Please, don't derailt the thread.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
Hugo Chavez is the best that ever happened to Venezuela! I don't live there and I don't have a clue about politics but I'm at an age when it's cool to shock your parents, so VIVA CHAVEZ! Hasta la victoria siempre!
Signed, LHStarAllaince

You are talking the same bullshit as my uncle (who is running for the Linkspartei (leftwing political party made up out of former East German communists and renegades from the left wing of the Social Democrats) in Berlin).
Funny, I read their programme (which was forced upon me by my uncle), while it condems Stalinism, it says nothing about Leninism, so I assume that they (at least the East Germans among them) consider themselves still to be a Leninist cadre party.
BTW, being a blue collar worker myself, I would have more respect for my unlce if he was a disciplined worker, but in fact he is a lazy SOB, who dropped out of school at 17, joined the Bhagwan cult in the 70s, later, thanks to my grandparents, did an apprenticeship as a printer in his md thirties and after that managed to get himself kicked out of every job so far, mostly for picking fights with his bosses during probation period. He has been happily on the dole since about 15 years, but was lucky that he inherited a few hundred thousand Euros. He blames his unemployment on the capitalist system, but in reality is just a lazy SOB, whio's biggest horror would be to be receiving a serious job offer. His party work is there for him to think himself important. His biggest aim is to get unemployment benefits increased.

Jan


User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

This sounds like a policy of Chavez' that is difficult to understand, as is the claimed idea to change the constitution to allow him more terms. I think that if the constitution were changed to remove the limit on the number of terms a president can serve, the new rule should apply starting from to the next president, not the sitting one.

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5037 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
You are talking the same bullshit as my uncle (who is running for the Linkspartei (leftwing political party made up out of former East German communists and renegades from the left wing of the Social Democrats) in Berlin).

You do understand the concept of sarcasm, don't you?


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
You are talking the same bullshit as my uncle (who is running for the Linkspartei (leftwing political party made up out of former East German communists and renegades from the left wing of the Social Democrats) in Berlin).

You do understand the concept of sarcasm, don't you?

Sorry,

I didn't read the complete text, just the first two lines (Because I assumed that it would be a continuation of the same stuff) and confused BIRDWATCHING with LHSTARALLIANCE.


Jan


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Quoting Joni (Reply 6):
the new rule should apply starting from to the next president, not the sitting one.

And if Chavez apponts himself President for life, Venezuela is screwed, right?

Chavez clearly runs on "Do as I say, not as I do."


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):
Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):
"President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country."

Reminiscent of when our own dictator, er, I mean Decider said, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".

Just when did we start deporting people who voiced disagreement with Bush?


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):
Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):
"President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country."

Reminiscent of when our own dictator, er, I mean Decider said, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".

Just when did we start deporting people who voiced disagreement with Bush?

No, but Chavez sounds like he is using fear to control the people, just like Bush is using fear to control the people. Different statements, same principle.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
I lived in Ecuador at that time and going to Colombia or Venezuela was like leaving the third world and entering big modern countries. It started at the border, it was like entering a whole different world. Now it's the opposite I suppose.

I don't think so. Of course I haven't been there in the 80s and 90s but recently when I went there, there were parts that definitely still looked third world, especially for the amount of oil that the country has.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2205 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 11):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):
Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):
"President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country."

Reminiscent of when our own dictator, er, I mean Decider said, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".

Just when did we start deporting people who voiced disagreement with Bush?

No, but Chavez sounds like he is using fear to control the people, just like Bush is using fear to control the people. Different statements, same principle.

Hogwash. Unless we start threatening to expel people for disagreeing with Bush, you can't make the "same principle" claim.

Well, you can, but all you do is make yourself look foolish.

[Edited 2007-07-23 18:45:29]

User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2165 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 11):
No, but Chavez sounds like he is using fear to control the people, just like Bush is using fear to control the people. Different statements, same principle.

No you are starting to sound like Pelosi, who claimed that this administration was the closest to a dictatorship ever in the US. Forgetting that if it were so, she would not have gotten elected speaker.

Same with the whole fear issue, since the Democrats got back into power last year.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
Hugo Chavez is the best that ever happened to Venezuela! I don't live there and I don't have a clue about politics but I'm at an age when it's cool to shock your parents, so VIVA CHAVEZ! Hasta la victoria siempre!
Signed, LHStarAllaince

You are talking the same bullshit as

-
It in fact is a precise picture of many Chavez supporters in Europe ! and applied to supporters of CheCheChe and HoHoHo who were in the same pattern !


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2138 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
Funny, I read their programme (which was forced upon me by my uncle), while it condems Stalinism, it says nothing about Leninism, so I assume that they (at least the East Germans among them) consider themselves still to be a Leninist cadre party.

I don't wish to go off topic, but if you google around for a German - North Korean friendship clan (the club has about 3 or 4 members) and google each member name, you'll find that one fan of "Dear leader Kim" and his thoroughly Stalinist policies is a member of Die Linken in Mecklenburg Pomerania. And either one of his two or three NK friends or even himself sent his congratulations and best wishes to Minsk when Lukashenko "won" the "election".



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6865 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 9):

And if Chavez apponts himself President for life, Venezuela is screwed, right?

At the present rate Crazy Hugo is amassing power, he'll declare himself Emperor before the end of the year.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 11):

Last time I checked, freedom of speech was still legal in the United States.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 3):




Quoting Seb146 (Reply 11):


Last time I checked, freedom of speech was still legal in the United States.

It is. The OP's are just a couple of partisans trying to blow things well out of proportion.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
Last time I checked, freedom of speech was still legal in the United States.

Correct; and all Pres. Bush, whom I don't really support, wanted to say with this infamous line was that one needs to take party - either with or against terrorists. It wasn't wise to choose exactly those words, but I wouldn't read too much into them.

As for Chavez, I'm afraid his new decree - if it comes into action - will mostly be directed at foreign press.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
it was like entering a whole different world. Now it's the opposite I suppose.

Not yet. As soon as oil prices are that high there is enough money in the country. And it remains here as it gets more difficult every day to get it outside the country (changing to US$ or Euro).

About the freedom of speech: At the moment it is not that big problem to express an opinion different to the one of the big leader. If you check the media they are still very aggressive towards him. I remember the picture of Hitler besides Hugo Chavez when his "habilitation" law (enabling act) was published saying something like 1933 Adolf Hitler - 2007 Hugo Chavez. This is something where the media in other countries would have had serious problems if they did it.

But the point is that it is getting worse every day. Now he owns the only telecommunication company and can control the whole internet...mails...etc. The pressure on the media is getting stronger every day. Laws are tight. You need to mention your full name and ID card # if you want to express your opinion on TV or the radio - ridiculous !


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 20):
As for Chavez, I'm afraid his new decree - if it comes into action - will mostly be directed at foreign press.

It was also directed at foreign government officials. Obviously a good way for Chavo to make friends.

"The Venezuelan leader's statements came after Manuel Espino, the president of Mexico's conservative ruling party, criticized Chavez during a recent pro-democracy forum in Caracas."


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Chavez claims that his regime is building "socialism for the 21st century." Actually, Chavez is a throw back to the "caudillismo" of the last two centuries. Chavez represents nothing new. His policies and tactics have all been tried before, and all have failed before. Spendthrift economic populism won't move most Venezuelans into the middle class or bring sustainable economic growth and prosperity to the country. Suppressing dissent, repressing civil liberties, and moving in the direction of a one party state means that Venezuelan society is increasingly polarized. Credible democratic elections and open debate about the country's future won't be the way that Venezuela will settle its political disputes while Chavez is in charge. Chavez may be powerful and popular now, but corruption, economic mismanagement, political bullying, and arrogance is likely, sooner or later, to lead to the failure of his "Bolivarian" revolution. Chavez is now leading Venezuela down the same path that other countries have already travelled. As far as I know, these policies do not create strong and stable democracies with developed and prosperous economies. I pity the Venezuelan people, who will ultimately pay the price when Chavez fails to deliver on his promise of bright future

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1801 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
El Chavo del Ocho is revoking freedom of speech in Venezuela

Please don't insult him like that!!!.........El Chavo del Ocho does not deserve the comparison!  biggrin 



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
25 MD11Engineer : What I'm afraid of is when this happens, he will start a war with a neighbouring country to distract the population from his failures. He wouldn't be
26 IAD380 : I think that civil disturbances will become more widespread in Venezuela as the economy begins to deteriorate, political repression intensifies, and
27 Falcon84 : Only difficult to understand, Joni, if you didn't realize up till now what kind of "leader" he is. It's consistent with everything this lout has done
28 Miamiair : Netherlands Antilles beware. Can't see the Dutch Navy taking back Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. Don't see Colombia being invaded... Chavez should have
29 Seb146 : Using fear to gain support for an invasion of a sovereign nation and passing legislation regarding personal freedoms. That is exactly what Bush did.
30 ME AVN FAN : - it is some 150 years since the Emperor of Brazil went out of business, so something quite amazing -
31 AirPacific747 : :D haha! Spot on!
32 MD11Engineer : Well, in this case the Netherlands would not be alone, but it would be the case of an attack against a NATO member. The French and British have some
33 Post contains links AndesSMF : I am not quite certain of that, but it is a well known historical fact that Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador share flags because originally the area w
34 Joni : Up til now, IMO, his policies have been mostly OK - it's just these two that I have a hard time accepting.
35 Post contains links and images AndesSMF : And he now targets another of his foreign critics. Way to make friend, Hugo! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070724/..._on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_chavez_1
36 Alberchico : A very unlikely possibility considering that his term of office is almost up and a new leader will be democratically elected just like he was....
37 Halls120 : Bush isn't threatening to expel people who disagree with him. Chavez is. That you continue to equate the two is simply unbelievable.
38 LTU932 : And I believe Article 5 of the North Atlantic clearly says that if a NATO country is attacked, it is considered an attack on all of NATO, so technica
39 Falcon84 : Putting in a caveat to make himself President for life? Nationalizing industry? Increasing the size of the military? Cozying up to the likes of Cuba,
40 Post contains images LTU932 : What you think should happen doesn't mean that it will happen. If Chávez does change the constitution and has to call for elections, there's nothing
41 Seb146 : Using fear to control people is the point I was making. Bush is not yet expeling reporters for being critical of the government. Bush is, like Chavez
42 AndesSMF : I bet you $1000 that will not happen. Put your money were your mouth is, otherwise don't even come up with such irrational silliness. If you are so u
43 Halls120 : A point that isn't at all persuasive. Bush is not "yet" expelling reporters? What planet are you currently residing on, may I ask? That you equate Bu
44 MD11Engineer : Exactly. And both the French and British have bases in the region, which can be easily used by other NATO forces as a staging area. Wanna bet that he
45 IAD380 : Again, Chavez won't directly attack any other country. Instead, he will follow the model of his Iranian ally by funding and arming proxy militias in
46 Lamedianaranja : I do not think it's nice to visit a country and criticise it anyway. You're a guest and are things so right in your own country then? Of course if som
47 IAD380 : Although it may not be polite to criticize the government of a country that you are visiting, you are still entitled to freedom of speech. Foreign na
48 AndesSMF : Payback is a bitch, isn't it? I mean, where was Hugo when he made the 'sulfur' comment...?
49 ME AVN FAN : there was a US-president who spoke about "Uncle Joe" and there were uncountable West European newspapers who for decades praised Nicolae Ceaucescu fo
50 LTU932 : And don't forget that Romania was also licened to build the BAC 1-11 in its own. But that doesn't change the fact that Ceausescu was a vicious bastar
51 ME AVN FAN : - A) formerly state-owned (VEBs) enterprises were, after becoming privatized not able to meet the competition B) new company-founders lacked the expe
52 LTU932 : Yes, and being VEBs, I presume they got lots of money injected by the government in order to stay in business. The fact that many privatised VEBs wen
53 ME AVN FAN : - no, it always happens when a country gets away from state managed economy and embarks into a social market economy. The "companies" are not up to r
54 LTU932 : That's sort of what I mean. What I meant with "not exclusive to the DDR" is that this is something that can happen in many countries. I know that man
55 Lamedianaranja : Sorry, I don't get it, please explain. I'll be in CCS btw when I read this, enjoying a short holiday.[Edited 2007-07-31 19:38:27]
56 Post contains links AndesSMF : "Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez tore into his U.S. counterpart and his U.N. hosts Wednesday, likening President Bush to the devil and telling the G
57 Seb146 : Show me where I was not upset about what Chavez has done. The people of a democracy, ANY democracy, losing their freedom because of a leader is horri
58 Post contains links AndesSMF : You mean the ones who have been released and go back to fight right away? "AT LEAST 30 former Guantanamo Bay detainees have been killed or recaptured
59 ME AVN FAN : While most of those who had fallen into the hands of the USA while taking courses on the "plains" of Afghanistan after becoming released went back in
60 TACAA320 : Please don't insult El Chavo del Ocho.
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