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Best All-Round Tank In The World?  
User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1373 posts, RR: 23
Posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

What is the best all-round main battle tank in the world? M1A2 Abrams? Leopard 2? Challenger 2?

Cal

[Edited 2007-07-24 06:34:22]


*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2867 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

LOL, I wonder what made you come up with this thread :P


LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

Being I'm from the Dairy State, I see lots of these. Some are over 50 years old and look like new.



User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2867 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

These have lasted a long time too...




LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineCupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting FighterPilot (Thread starter):
M1A2 Abrams? Leopard 2? Challenger 2?

none of them.

T-72



Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
User currently offlineFrancoBlanco From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 4):
T-72

I'd go for a T-1000. Or a T-Rex.


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

I'd personally say, being in the military (hey cadets counts lol), that the Challenger 2 tank is (in my opinion) the best all round tank. Had a climb around a few of them and other tanks at REME (Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers, bascially the army's engineers) and can confim, they are a pretty mean piece of machine, wouldn't like to see one of those coming for me..

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 668 File size: 119kb

 Big grin Big grin
Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3427 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

You won't be able to get an unbiased answer here. Having served with these babies, i obviousely say tha the Leo2 is th ebest out there. They're probably all about equally good anyway.



User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

For me it is:

Challenger
Leopard 2
.
.
.
Abrams

Now what time is it in Alaska? Or, to put it another way, how long have I left to live? Big grin


User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/StrasserB/Misc2/star_wars_10_1024.jpg


Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 8):
Now what time is it in Alaska? Or, to put it another way, how long have I left to live? Big grin

Don't worry about ANCFlyer. He currently seems to be inhabiting an Australian jail after doing some "fun driving" with what seems to be a souped up M113 or an AFW 432 in Sidney:  Silly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzGXsTg2go

Here the news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXjDA-w43hY

Jan


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

I would have said one of these but evidently they are prone to lightening strikes.



User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Jim made a funny.  Big grin

A good one, at that!


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Big version: Width: 680 Height: 520 File size: 101kb
Abrams


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 4):
T-72

Piece of Shit.

I've personally blown the turrets off a couple of 'em . . . .

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 8):
Now what time is it in Alaska?

0800.  biggrin 

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 8):
Or, to put it another way, how long have I left to live?  biggrin 

 rotfl 

IMO, for whatever it's worth, I think the Challenger 2, Abrams and Leo are all on par wioth being the top of the line tanks in the world.

When you discuss "what is the best all around tank", you have to take everything about the tank into account. Firepower, Crew Survivability, Fire Control, Automotive Performance, etc.

For my $$$, it's the Abrams.

I am of course partial to my Abrams . . . but I know first hand the capabilites of that machine. I know none of the Soviet era/Russian built armor we challenged in the desert stood a chance in hell against the Abrams. I watched a couple of turrets fly off those things. I've been inside a T72, T64, and a T55. All equally worthless.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXjDA-w43hY

that's hilarious . . .



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Big version: Width: 346 Height: 200 File size: 16kb


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3786 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
For my $$$, it's the Abrams.

I am of course partial to my Abrams

How fast will the M1 Abrams really go when the governor's disabled? I asked a guy who's a track mechanic recently returned from the mean streets around Ramadi and he laughed and said 'no comment'.


User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Personally I like the Leopard 2 parking enforcement.



User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3427 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
T-72

Piece of Shit.

I've personally blown the turrets off a couple of 'em . . . .

So did I, however onl yin the simulator, does that count? Othe rthan that i blow off a lot of russian tank mockups  embarrassed 


User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3730 times:
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T-72? Are you kidding? It was obsolete 20 years ago and like ANCFlyer said, "Piece of Shit"

While the M1A2 Abrams has my vote, a strong honorable mention should go to the Israeli Merkava 4!

Photo courtesy of zahal.org.

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 537 File size: 152kb



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3716 times:




"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

40+ mph without the governor and i've heard the tracks will melt if any faster than 40.

The Abrams. Very good machine capable of delivering a large loud wake up call.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 15):
How fast will the M1 Abrams really go when the governor's disabled? I

I've had an Abrams going 72mph, Governors disabled . . .

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20):
40 mph without the governor and i've heard the tracks will melt if any faster than 40.

Not true.

Just don't turn too sharply.

40 mph is normal cruise, even faster, Governors engaged.

We had a hell of a time in 1st Gulf War outrunning our fuel and ammo . . . .


User currently offlineCupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

See below extract from Wikipedia.

The T-72 is common around the world in the armies of many potential enemies of the U.S. and other Western nations. Many Western analysts regard this as worrisome because, at least theoretically, its 125 mm 2A46 main gun is capable of destroying any modern main battle tank in the world today, including the M1 Abrams. On the other hand, on those three occasions when Soviet clients using T-72s have met Western armies that possessed modern main battle tanks —Lebanon in 1982 (against the Israeli Merkava), Iraq in 1991 (against the U.S. M1 Abrams and the British Challenger 1), and again Iraq in 2003— the T-72 did not show its abilities. After clashes in Lebanon in 1982, both the Israelis and the Syrians claimed their main tank's superiority, but there is no verifiable evidence of a T-72 meeting Merkava in battle. In the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi tank units were heavily defeated, although this might have more to do with the poor training and full air supremacy than with any deficiencies of the T-72 itself. Furthermore, while facing the most modern Western tanks, the versions the Iraqi army fielded were out of date at the time. The Iraqi T-72s were downgraded export versions that had not been significantly upgraded over time and were firing inferior ammunition (often with steel penetrators and half-charges of propellant).



Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
User currently offlineAA787823 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

A 1977 Lincoln Continental

Signed,
Superfly


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 22):
See below extract from Wikipedia.

Authoritative source there, probably a quote from the sales brochure.


 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 


25 CupraIbiza : Haha very true. I like that. Good point.
26 ANCFlyer : I don't give two shits what Wikipedia says . . . I have first hand . . . read that COMBAT . . . experience against that piece of shit and I can tell
27 Post contains images GQfluffy : Right. Wasn't there a report of an M1 that got stuck in the sand, and several Iraqi tanks started taking pot shots at it, only to be blown away by th
28 Post contains images Aloges : no comment
29 Post contains images Fridgmus : Well, I guess that ends THAT debate! 72 mph? Oh Hell yeah! Hey BA, where can I get one of those? We could have some serious fun with them over here o
30 AirframeAS : I vote for the Abrams!
31 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Well, I can't attest to that, but I can tell you if you 'track' an Abrams, you NOW have the baddest stationary gun platform on the Battlefield. I hav
32 MDorBust : Hey, while we have the attention of the tank brains... Can anyone tell me what the heck this thing is? It's been driving me nuts. It looks like the bu
33 ANCFlyer : It's a missile, not a tank round. that's my initial assessment. I'll look at longer, but I KNOW it's not a KE round from a panzer. Could be a Shillel
34 MDorBust : TOW had two sets of guidance fins. Maybe something akin to the guided missile the russians could fire from the main gun of a tank?
35 L-188 : No way that is a 152 mm weapon. I suspect that somebody is working on a guided weapon for the 120mm. I would guess it is the 120mm that arms the Abra
36 ANCFlyer : Somewhere burind in my Hard Drive is a test video for an AT missile. . . . real killer weapon. I will lookfor it, and if I can figure out the technol
37 AirSpare : Not to nit pick...but it would be a high speed camera with a frame rate, I would guess from looking at it, a 100,000 frames per second. There is no e
38 Waterpolodan : ANC, cool to hear stories from a tanker with real combat experience! Can I ask, how many T72s did you guys actually engage in direct combat? I don't
39 Post contains links MDorBust : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting
40 Post contains images SandroZRH : That's a so called Buffalo. A help and rescue tank built on a Leo2 chassis. Nothing too exciting
41 DYflyer : Leo1 not leo2. It is an engineer´s vehicle used to dig trenches etc. The help and rescue tank would be the bergepanzer witch is a bit higher and hav
42 MD11Engineer : Don't forget when the T-72 was introduced, in the early 70s, basically a counterpart of the later American M-60, the British Centurion and Chieftain a
43 ANCFlyer : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...sting The Battle of 73 Easting was the most 'flamboyant' battle of the Gulf War. The Russians s
44 Dougloid : My acquaintance did say that the...ahem...learning excursion....did bad things to the engine and it had to be changed the next week because it got si
45 Zak : calibre: around 120mm gun: certainly rifled, so the rheinmetall 120mm gun used by leo's and in license by abrams is to be ruled out warhead: i assume
46 ANCFlyer : More likely the the transmission got sick, not the engine. The engine - the turbine itself - isn't very large. The tranny on the other hand is the si
47 Post contains links MDorBust : I think I found our mystery projectile. This is some really hi-tech stuff. http://www.defense-update.com/products/digits/120MRM.htm
48 MD11Engineer : Did you only have experience with the export models or also with the versions issued to the Soviet / Russian Army, which AFAIK where much better equi
49 ANCFlyer : In combat, only with export models. I have been aboard T72s that were "comandeered" from the Soviet army however. Yes, the Soviet doctrine was to ess
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