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End The Practice Of Police Chases  
User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

From another thread, we were discussing the Phoenix helicopters that crashed while filming a police chase. I advocate ending police chases completely, unless there is probable cause to believe that a life-endangering crime is about to occur absent immediate apprehension of the suspect.

The reason is that police chases inherently increase the risks to everyone else on or near the road, and almost always end in a wreck. Many innocent people have died on roads, particularly in California, when they were hit by a suspect or a cop during a high speed pursuit. That suspect could be apprehended later, so why put people at risk now?


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114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2885 times:

We've had several instances of late with police chases and innocent people being hurt or even killed up here. It always comes down to police discretion.

Here in YYZ, i would like to see a police helicopter in the air, but the mayor flat out refuses to even listen to advocates of a chopper. Baffling.



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
and almost always end in a wreck.

Source?? I find it real hard to believe that they "almost always end in a wreck"

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Many innocent people have died on roads

SOME innocent people have died - certainly. As have innocent people died from plane crashes, car wrecks, and athletes participating in sporting events. Should we end air travel, car travel, and sports? Hell, those examples don't even end up putting a bad guy behind bars, and many a police chase do.

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
That suspect could be apprehended later

Maybe, maybe not. The alternative would be that the thugs would realize that they are not going to be chased, and crime would go up IMO.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 2):
Source??

Gene Burns, a San Francisco radio show host, complaining about too many car chases in California. (And logic. There's only two ways for them to end: crashing, and surrender. More than half are the former.)

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 2):
SOME innocent people have died

No, MANY. But if you're going to argue the difference between "some" and "many" I think it's time to give us your next best argument.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 2):
As have innocent people died from plane crashes, car wrecks, and athletes participating in sporting events. Should we end air travel, car travel, and sports?

Terrible analogy. People who died in plane crashes, car wrecks (of the non-police chase variety) and sporting events were not involved in anything initiated by law enforcement. This discussion is about the actions of law enforcement raising risks to innocent people.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 2):
Maybe, maybe not. The alternative would be that the thugs would realize that they are not going to be chased, and crime would go up IMO.

The evidence goes the other way. Virginia doesn't have police chases, and yet has lower crime.



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User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
and almost always end in a wreck.

 redflag 

Don't count the perpetrator crashing and burning . . . if the moron is running from the po-po and crashed, all the better.

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Gene Burns, a San Francisco radio show host, complaining about too many car chases in California. (And logic. There's only two ways for them to end: crashing, and surrender. More than half are the former.)

So. See my immediate above.

The perp crashes . . . maybe gets killed . . . as long as an innocent is taken along for the ride - who gives two craps.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

does anyone have any real statistics on this? Let's start with the two basic figures:

1. How many innocent people were injured last year in police chases?
2. How many police chases occured last year?

We can debate policy but our arguments should be based in fact.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
The perp crashes . . . maybe gets killed . . . as long as an innocent is taken along for the ride - who gives two craps.

I care.

Signed, We're Nuts - Advocate for plush jails for criminals


User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5499 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

I'm all for ending high speed chases. That way when I commit a crime, all I have to do is drive fast and the police will cease chasing me.
signed, every criminal with a vehicle capable of going over 50 mph.

While we're at it, let's stop going after someone committing a crime with a firearm. He may shoot someone if the police get involved.

Hey, there's one way to stop high speed chases: STOP when the police try to pull you over or even better: DON'T commit any offense that may require the police to stop you.

What a novel idea.

[Edited 2007-07-31 21:17:19]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
That suspect could be apprehended later, so why put people at risk now?

 rotfl 

That's a good one.

As I've said before on this often recycled topic:

1) We don't really know who they are. Sure, we might know the license plate of the car (maybe), but that doesn't tell us who the driver is. You can't go pick someone up later if you don't know who they are.
2) Letting them go only allows them to get to a location where they can arm up, fortify and take hostages.. making the situation worse.
3) Just because we aren't chasing doesn't mean they aren't going to run like mad anyways.

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
(And logic. There's only two ways for them to end: crashing, and surrender. More than half are the former.)

3) Automotive failure (out of fuel, transmission failure, tire failure etc.)
4) Forceful non-crash termination by police vehicle intervention
5) Rabbited into a dead end.

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
The evidence goes the other way. Virginia doesn't have police chases, and yet has lower crime.

This is the second time in this thread you have claimed there are not police pursuits in VA.

How do you explain the first result of a google search for "virginia police pursuit"
http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...ocal_072307_fatal_ax.a431cf71.html

Quote:
A man died Sunday night after flipping a car during a short police pursuit.

Around 11:00 p.m. police were called to a car accident on the 1000 block of Great Fork Road in Suffolk. The car was in a ditch, and a man and woman were at the scene. The woman said that she had been driving the car at the time of the accident.

Here's another one
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19373591/

And another
http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6789971


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3955 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 7):
I'm all for ending high speed chases. That way when I commit a crime, all I have to do is drive fast and the police will cease chasing me.
signed, every criminal with a vehicle capable of going over 50 mph.

 bigthumbsup  Exactly my thoughts too!

R


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think the need for police chases (or other non-chase high-speed driving) can ever be totally eliminated, as I just don't think it's realistic. That said, there are some departments with varying degrees of restrictive chase policies, and each agency is in the best position to determine what its local citizenry wants/needs/expects of them, and I don't think a one-size-fits-all restriction works everywhere.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

If a person is running for a non-violent crime, or is arguably not a risk to the public, of course a pursuit shouldn't take place. One innocent life is too many to placate the egos of the police.

User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

You'll always have someone that wants to flee. As for chase policies, that should be left up to the individual agencies. Most of the agencies I am familiar with will not chase unless the person has committed a violent crime or presents a credible danger to others (DUI, person with gun).


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Gene Burns, a San Francisco radio show host, complaining about too many car chases in California.

 rotfl  A liberal amongst liberals. Nice, reliable, unbiased source you have there, DLX!

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
As I've said before on this often recycled topic:

All of MDorBust's accurate comments pretty much sum it up. Eliminating police chases is a ridiculous notion.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Don't count the perpetrator crashing and burning . . . if the moron is running from the po-po and crashed, all the better.

No, not all the better. And not just for my normal pro-life reason, but rather because we as a society do not want projectiles hurling down our roads and freeways. If we know that the moron will likely be injured or killed, we also know that the risks for the non-morons nearby are escalated as well. Situations that cause wrecks are dangerous for everyone.

Quoting Pope (Reply 5):
1. How many innocent people were injured last year in police chases?
2. How many police chases occured last year?

Those aren't the right questions. Those questions try to measure a ratio of innocent injuries to chases ensued. The correct thing to measure is how many innocent injuries incurred to how many innocent injuries AVERTED by the chase. I posit that extremely few injuries are averted by a chase.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 7):
I'm all for ending high speed chases. That way when I commit a crime, all I have to do is drive fast and the police will cease chasing me.

Doesn't mean you won't get caught. The VAST majority of convictions are NOT the result of a police chase.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 7):
While we're at it, let's stop going after someone committing a crime with a firearm. He may shoot someone if the police get involved.

Another bad analogy. No one has ever said do not try to apprehend criminals. (DUH!!) This thread is about high speed chases. Furthermore, if someone is using a gun while committing a crime, doesn't that suggest to you that there may be probable cause that someone's life is endandged absent immediate apprehension? (Which of course as I said in the OP is the exception for initiating a chase.)

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
That's a good one.

I'm glad you liked it. The old "I will laugh at you, and therefore defeat your argument" trick. Well done.  Yeah sure

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
1) We don't really know who they are. Sure, we might know the license plate of the car (maybe), but that doesn't tell us who the driver is. You can't go pick someone up later if you don't know who they are.

There are other ways to catch a crook that have worked for as long as we've had crooks.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
2) Letting them go only allows them to get to a location where they can arm up, fortify and take hostages.. making the situation worse.

Speculation. You don't even know if this is a violent offense yet.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
3) Just because we aren't chasing doesn't mean they aren't going to run like mad anyways.

More speculating. (But it should be pretty obvious to those playing at home that people who aren't being chased don't have as much incentive to run.)

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
This is the second time in this thread you have claimed there are not police pursuits in VA

No it's not... look again.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
How do you explain the first result of a google search for "virginia police pursuit"
http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori....html

I see a chase that ended in a crash. Actually, I see three chases that ended in crashes.

I stand corrected that Virginia police never use chases, but I maintain that Virginia police use the chase much more sparingly than other jurisdictions. Additionally, your sources show that these chases indeed endangered lives.



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User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 13):
A liberal amongst liberals. Nice, reliable, unbiased source you have there, DLX!

Are you freakin' serious?!

Dude, for one,  redflag  because you try to defeat an argument by saying "he's a liberal, so he must be wrong."

Secondly,  redflag  because he is most definitely and outwardly NOT a liberal. You didn't do your homework.



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User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
The VAST majority of convictions are NOT the result of a police chase.

That's far too sweeping a statement to hold any credibility whatsoever. You need to refine it to chases that have resulted in a conviction and then supply some reliable (not liberal radio hosts) unbiased sources.

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
There are other ways to catch a crook that have worked for as long as we've had crooks.

I'd like to see the list, with sources.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Don't count the perpetrator crashing and burning . . . if the moron is running from the po-po and crashed, all the better.

No, not all the better.

Yes, all the better. No tax dollars to waste prosecuting and housing the moron. . . .and it's a self-inflicted wound. Crashed while running from the police . . .  rotfl  Too Bad, So Sad . . .

Still haven't seen a source to back this up:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
almost always end in a wreck.



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Many innocent people have died on roads, particularly in California, when they were hit by a suspect or a cop during a high speed pursuit.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Gene Burns, a San Francisco radio show host

Well, there goes your credibility, sunshine.

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
There's only two ways for them to end: crashing, and surrender. More than half are the former

Hmmm... Maybe in California, where everytime a dog shits there's a news helicopter there to catch it live for the sensationalism-loving subhumans.

Here, in the Twin Cities metro area, maybe 5% of all chases end in a crash. And very few of them end with anyone getting hurt.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2725 times:

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 12):
Most of the agencies I am familiar with will not chase unless the person has committed a violent crime or presents a credible danger to others (DUI, person with gun).

Which as I mentioned are the sensible reasons to initiate a chase (if there is probable cause that the person with a gun might use it).

I'm actually kind of surprised with the responses here from the pro-gun people. I would think you'd say "let him run! Since there are so many of us law-abiding gun toters, we'll just shoot him ourselves when we see him."  Silly



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User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Gene Burns, a San Francisco radio show host

Well, there goes your credibility, sunshine.

Do you even know who Gene Burns is? Go do your homework.


(Here's a hint: he's a conservative/libertarian!)

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 16):
That's far too sweeping a statement to hold any credibility whatsoever.

Are you kidding me?

Do the math: how many police chases are there in a day? Compare that to how many arrests there are in a day.

Q.E.D.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Still haven't seen a source to back this up:

That will take time. I'll look at it when I'm not at work. But, all the news stories we've seen on this thread as "evidence" back up my claim. (Cue MDorBust going on google looking for news stories saying the opposite.)

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
Here, in the Twin Cities metro area, maybe 5% of all chases end in a crash. And very few of them end with anyone getting hurt.

Since we're calling out sources, I call this one out.



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User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Still haven't seen a source to back this up:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Many innocent people have died on roads, particularly in California, when they were hit by a suspect or a cop during a high speed pursuit.

www.kristieslaw.org

Biased, but disagree with facts if you want. More than 2500 innocent people killed since 1982 in chases, apparently. More than 100 police officers.

Once again, if they're not running from a violent crime, or aren't a violent risk to the public, don't chase them.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 13):
A liberal amongst liberals. Nice, reliable, unbiased source you have there, DLX!



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Secondly, because he is most definitely and outwardly NOT a liberal. You didn't do your homework.

I think he goes as a libertarian...but the station is the most listened to talk station in San Francisco, perhaps the most liberal city in America.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Dude, for one, because you try to defeat an argument by saying "he's a liberal, so he must be wrong."

He's not trying to defeat it, he's trying to show that just beacuse a one-sided talk show host says it doesn't mean it's true...it would be like Lou Dobbs or Ann Coulter saying it was true - clearly, that doesn't mean it's true.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11432 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):
He's not trying to defeat it, he's trying to show that just beacuse a one-sided talk show host says it doesn't mean it's true...it would be like Lou Dobbs or Ann Coulter saying it was true - clearly, that doesn't mean it's true.

On the contrary. He is saying "because he is a liberal amongst liberals, I don't have to bother listening to him -- he's already wrong."

Funny thing is, I didn't realize this was a liberal vs. conservative thing at all. Anyone who argues that "if it was said by a liberal, it is wrong" gets a big  redflag .



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User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 20):
Since we're calling out sources, I call this one out.

How about 28 years of personal experience. Good enough?

Quoting D L X (Reply 20):
Do you even know who Gene Burns is?

An anti-government loudmouth. He reminds me of an old antiestablishmentarian that forgot this is the 21st century.


25 SW733 : Can you prove that's what he was saying, or are you going off how you translated it? Because I don't see anywhere after that where he said "because h
26 Itsjustme : D L X, in the PHX Helicopter crash thread, you said, among other things, "I think that the police should almost NEVER initiate a chase", and "The cop
27 MDorBust : Yeah, it's almost like I didn't post anything else to counter you... Oh wait.. That's also completely and totally unmeasurable. So, you're saying tha
28 Post contains images N1120A : So f'ing what? They are called Peace Officers for a reason. No unnecessary killing to keep the peace. The police can call off a chase and search alte
29 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : D L X.... Now I remember. He's that librarian libertarian guy that agrued with me and others a few weeks ago simply for the sake of arguing. Oh no. Yo
30 777236ER : Did you ignore the website I posted? 100 police officers dead since 1982.
31 KaiGywer : WOW! What a credible source.....conservative, liberal, moderate....doesn't matter. He's a radio host, not an expert in police psychology and science.
32 SW733 : Good call...that does go above all political lines.
33 MDorBust : In twenty five years of pursuit, as many officers have died while conducting pursuits as have died in an average year... by September. Or in the case
34 AsstChiefMark : True. We have maybe one chase every two weeks in St. Croix county. People know they can't get away. They just pull over. Most chases involve motorcyc
35 KaiGywer : Hell, I don't think I've ever heard a chase in Rice County as long as I've been there. Our last pursuit was two-three years ago. Dakota County sent o
36 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : And how exactly would you measure that realistically? If the guy being chased and the cops both safely drive by one vehicle on the highway, is that "
37 AirCop : Not true here in Maricopa county.. Very rarely does a Calfiornia Highway Patrolman call in a license plate prior to a traffic stop. Dispatch system w
38 Post contains images KaiGywer : Haha, don't piss off the judge!
39 N1120A : I will let you re-read that post and think about your response.
40 Pope : So in 25 years 2500 people have died (approx 100 people/yr) . Obviously its a tragedy whenever an innocent person dies but by no means indicative of
41 Post contains images OPNLguy : It's a good thing the judge was objective... Then again, maybe the bail was set so high because of the additional charge of Absolute Stupidity in the
42 Post contains images D L X : My response was because this poster has in the past insinuated that if my source is liberal, it is biased, and not to be trusted. The thing is, how d
43 Post contains images KaiGywer : It doesn't. Politics has nothing to do with this. I still say this does: Nope, I would have said the same if a neurosurgeon, pilot, McDonalds fry coo
44 MDorBust : Still an invalid argument. You still haven't replied to those of us who have said that just because we see a car, doen't mean we know who the driver
45 Post contains images KaiGywer : Hey hey hey. Watch your quote button
46 MDorBust : I was using that as an example of why most arrests are conducted without a chase. Unconnected to the next thought.
47 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : I think it's a reasonable question for you N1120A. You said the police have the option to call of the chase, which would avoid the loss in the life,
48 IFEMaster : Opinions are irrelevant when you are quoting a talk show host a reliable source of unbiased, truthful fact. Which DLX was. He still hasn't provided a
49 Greasespot : I will not chase unless there is a serious crime being committed...especially if I have their tags.. No one deserves to die for speeding or running a
50 D L X : nice comeback. Care to add some meat to that bone? Yes I have. I acknowledged that I am not as familiar with police practices as the cops on this thr
51 MDorBust : No. Your logic has become circular. Many criminals arrested without chase -> Because they don't run -> Because they don't get chased -> Because they
52 AsstChiefMark : Hey. DeLuXe. Kai is a cop. You've got to live like Patrick Star if you didn't notice that before.[Edited 2007-08-01 03:08:10]
53 Post contains images IFEMaster : Right, because the onus is upon me to prove you're wrong rather than upon you to back up your ludicrous idea! Brilliant!
54 Itsjustme : Greasy is actually a female officer, and a brand new one at that. She said if she has the tags, she won't chase unless a serious crime has been commi
55 VonRichtofen : No police choppers in YYZ??? That's surprising. YYC has 2 now.
56 N710PS : This is not always the case. I tend to disagree with you though I do think that they need to be more restricted and limited. I think there are times
57 MCOflyer : Agreed. Very well worded. Good enough for me in my books Mark. Agreed. No one deserves to die for a egotisic manianac trying to avoid the law. I have
58 LTBEWR : There will always be ligament circumstances usually involving those sought for violent or serious crimes or wanted for other crimes for police to do a
59 Mir : Am I to understand that you are saying that if a criminal is killed in a chase and an innocent person is killed as well, you don't care? Something te
60 Post contains images D L X : Then why do we investigate plane crashes? I don't know if we've had more or less than 2500 people die in plane crashes in the last 25 years, but it's
61 Itsjustme : I think, given the author of the post, it's a safe assumption that he meant to type, as long as an innocent isn't taken along for the ride - who give
62 Fr8Mech : And how do you know they aren't a violent risk to the public? They are already suspect in some crime (hence the chase). How is an officer to know wha
63 Post contains images MDorBust : If you are honestly willing to support the funding that it would require, sure... we can probably give up chasing. For some reason though, I think yo
64 Flyorski : It does not need to be so extreme...... And utah is a conservative place.... Here is what the salt lake county policy is: Salt Lake County Changes Po
65 Delta767300ER : At the agency I work for we can only engage in a vehicle pursuit if the suspect has committed a forcible felony or is under the suspicion of DUI. You
66 EA CO AS : Fact of the matter is that the moment you outlaw police chases, more criminals will become emboldened to run from the police. After all, if they're n
67 Post contains links ORFflyer : I guess that settles it then - cause if good ole Gene says so, it must be gospel. It's been time for you to do this. No, this discuusion seems to be
68 Post contains images KaiGywer : Ah gotcha I'm not a cop (yet), but I do have a Bachelors degree in Law Enforcement and I am also a Police Reserve Officer. So I feel that I know what
69 Pope : Well your statement, while perfectly valid, is really only 1/2 of the analysis. Like with all decisions the costs need to be weighed against the bene
70 D L X : No dude, your analogy is very poor. I've never said that police should not hunt down and prosecute those that flee police. I said (probably for the 3
71 YooYoo : It's true. A few years back there was a company ready to give a chopper service for free. Exact details i really don't know about, but the Mayor woul
72 Post contains links Itsjustme : Food for thought D L X: Your 5 year old daughter is playing in your front yard and is abducted (see Samantha Runnion case). The guy takes off, turns
73 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Spongebob's friend. He lives under a rock.
74 Post contains images KaiGywer : That'd be why I didn't know
75 D L X : We can all brainstorm fringe cases where a negative result would happen absent a chase. That doesn't mean we should chase. Your hypo relies on hindsi
76 Post contains images Mir : Do you also live under a rock? -Mir
77 Post contains images KaiGywer : At least I don't live in a pineapple under the sea
78 D L X : BTW, Itsjustme, I do sympathize with your scenario from reply 75. It's very possibly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If you do chas
79 57AZ : Agreed. No need to place yourself or the public at risk for such a lowly misdemeanor when you can send the registered owner a citation by mail.
80 WildcatYXU : I have one question to the topic: How often would an otherwise law abiding citizen flee after he committed a traffic violation only? IMO an ordinary g
81 Itsjustme : Actually, given my department's current chase policy, there wouldn't be any hindsight knowledge necessary. I'd be within our policy to pursue until o
82 ORFflyer : I don't think anyone here can make a valid argument to this point. Like George Carlin says, A Police Officer should have every right to shoot your so
83 KSYR : The bottom line is this-If you restrict the right of police to engage in vehicle pursuits, then crime will go up. It is a simple equation of logic. If
84 AsstChiefMark : Most people being chased by cops are running for a reason. There's always something more sinister than a burned out brake light.
85 Post contains images KaiGywer : Hell some people even pull over before you light them up They know what they did wrong
86 D L X : Irrelevant. I agree that most people have a reason to run if they choose to run. But. that does not necessarily shift the balance of costs and benefi
87 Scbriml : No, but they would, IMHO, be culpable if the idiot drives off the road and "macks" a mother and child. The majority of car chases in the UK involve j
88 Itsjustme : Or, get what's known as "Black-n-White Fever" and spaz out at the sight of patrol car (a "black and white") behind them and do something really stupi
89 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : I get really annoyed when driving an ambulance to grab lunch and people slow down and pull over. You know how many times I have to look down to make
90 MCOflyer : I get really annoyed when a holes freeze and don't pull over. Hunter
91 Post contains images D L X : Yes. And so am I. Seriously, I think what you've done is traded one risk for another. I believe you when you say that studies show that abducted kids
92 AsstChiefMark : assholes?
93 Itsjustme : Just curious; do you drive the rig with it's headlights on? I see lots of EMS rigs that do so when not on a run and the EMTS wonder why people are yi
94 AsstChiefMark : Yep. It's been a department policy since 1982. Headlights on at all times (and they're not daytime running lights).
95 Halcyon : Or get panicked and almost hit you. We also always use headlights unless wigwags are on. (And wigwags are usually off at night, unless we aren't on a
96 Post contains images KaiGywer : Like go 45 in a 55mph zone with no passing zones
97 Itsjustme : A few years back, I had a woman who was so intent on watching me in her rear view mirror (I could literally see her eyes bobbing between the mirror a
98 Post contains images KaiGywer : What was your response to that one?
99 Nitrohelper : If every driver was shot during a chase maybe they wouldn't flee so easily ? If a person was running through a shopping mall with a gun, no one would
100 MDorBust : Hmm... probably," Ma'am, the number to contact for a court appointment is on the back of the citation. You have ten days to contact the court and sch
101 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Sorry for the typo . . . . MIR, you should know me better. Why would I want some innocent victim killed? Sheesh. We are all, of course, mind readers
102 AsstChiefMark : That makes me wonder. If I knew my license was suspended, or was a drunk driver, or had an outstanding warrant, I'd make damn sure all my lights work
103 ANCFlyer : Umm, normally people with suspended licenses, driving drunk, etc, aren't the most motivated, nor most intelligent members of our society . . . normal
104 AndesSMF : Of all the car chases I have seen, I only recall ONE where the driver ran for the hell of it, and it was stated that this idiot had a history of runn
105 Itsjustme : Almost verbatim. Of course inside I was thinking, "Please tell me you don't have any offspring". Yeah, you would think so, wouldn't you? Actually, ho
106 Post contains images Halls120 : LOL, Virginia doesn't have lower crime because it has no police chases! It has lower crime because in general, the people are more law abiding. Oh, a
107 NIKV69 : Your right, ending police chases is the first step to Anarchy. Bad idea..
108 Post contains images D L X : I mean, it's hard to disagree with that. Virginia is the best state because Virginia is filled with the best people (and very few Californians). But
109 MDorBust : I would love to see a comparative analysis of the rates of high speed chases in CA, TX and VA. Nope. Don't fry anybody.
110 Post contains links D L X : No Electric chair in Texas anymore? http://www.kristieslaw.org/nationwide.htm
111 MDorBust : Uh, no. Not for thirty years. That's not rate. That's total incidents. Which is of course, as usual, an invalid comparison. Of course Virginia has fe
112 Halls120 : I'm not questioning the relative merits of allowing or preventing high speed chases. Just that because we don't allow them in Virginia, that the crim
113 Post contains links and images KaiGywer : I wasn't able to find a page with number of pursuits per state, but I did make some tables showing the fatality rates per capita and number of fatali
114 D L X : My bad then. Texas definitely has a rep for frying -- those impressions are hard to shake. Okay, well, we can look at other stats then. I think a bet
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