Tonyban From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1653 times:
Hello, Not sure if this is true aviation discussion so forgive me if it's not....also sorry if it's already been discussed.
Guy flying from Australia to New York has overnight stop in San Francisco. While in San Francisco, he buys a ticket to a local San Francisco Giants game and he just happens to be the one to catch Barry Bonds record breaking home run ball.
I guess he flew back in First Class !!! Lucky Dude !!
Aussieindc From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1530 times:
It's actually the other way around. He's on his way to Australia from New York and he's not sure what he wants to do right now. So I doubt he'll be splurging right now by upgrading either way.
FlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1398 times:
Quoting Aussieindc (Reply 1): It's actually the other way around. He's on his way to Australia from New York and he's not sure what he wants to do right now. So I doubt he'll be splurging right now by upgrading either way
From what I heard today, he may not be selling the ball. He says he may keep it for himself since he feels it's a part of history.
ORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1383 times:
Quoting Aussieindc (Reply 1): he's not sure what he wants to do right now. So I doubt he'll be splurging right now by upgrading either way.
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 2): From what I heard today, he may not be selling the ball. He says he may keep it for himself since he feels it's a part of history.
Today's paper listed IRS sources stating that whether he sells or not, he now has a tax liability of $210,000.00, based on their valuing the ball at $600,000.00.
Aussieindc From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
$100 bucks (plus tax liability) that he sells.... His home would be a target for some nut to go in and steal it anyway. Then where would he be? No money, no ball....
HPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1296 times:
Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 3): Today's paper listed IRS sources stating that whether he sells or not, he now has a tax liability of $210,000.00, based on their valuing the ball at $600,000.00.
Why would you have to pay taxes on the ball if you don't sell? The ball is currently worth whatever MLB paid to manufacture it, the fan should only be liable for taxes on the $3 cost of the ball (or whatever it is MLB pays for them). Since the ball hasn't been sold for anything higher than (despite what appraisals might be), then the ball doesn't have any value until it is actually sold for that amount, at least, that's how I view it.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1277 times:
Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 5): Why would you have to pay taxes on the ball if you don't sell?
Same reason you pay income tax on money you've been paid but have not yet spent.
It is an asset with a dollar value that has come into his hands.
He might argue that it should be treated as capital gains and taxed only when sold but you have to convince the IRS in their own court to find against themselves.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8552 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1259 times:
Mdodd From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
Quoting Tonyban (Thread starter): just happens to be the one to catch Barry Bonds record breaking home run ball.
Wow amazing. I wish things like that would happen to me once in a while! Sheesh!!
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1228 times:
I've had much better luck than that on many a layover.
None of it was worth $600K on the one hand but none of it came with that kind of tax debt either.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
HPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1216 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 6): Same reason you pay income tax on money you've been paid but have not yet spent.
But when you are paid in cash, that is an inarguable amount that is worth exactly its face value when the money was given to you. There is no denying the value of the money that is paid. This ball has only been appraised, but since no one has paid more than $3 for this ball prior to the fan taking possession, then the ball is only worth $3 until a larger amount has been paid for it. If the guy doesn't sell it, it's just a lucky souvenier collecting dust in a cabinet that nobody has paid jacksquat to attain. The ball becomes valuable once it is sold.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1195 times:
Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 10): This ball has only been appraised, but since no one has paid more than $3 for this ball prior to the fan taking possession, then the ball is only worth $3 until a larger amount has been paid for it.
They have tons of case law wherein the price paid for a similar item was used as a standard.
Try not to pay this money and the IRS will prevail with interest and penalties.
No matter what you or I may think of it, this is not even subject to debate.
As an example it is quite common for someone who does not otherwise have a lot of money to win a car on a game show and have to sell it to satisfy the taxes on it. Last I heard, these taxes were due and payable when the keys were handed over.
Once, after a flight from Las Vegas to another city I got on the PA and thanked the passengers for flying with us, blah blah, and said: "including you undercover IRS agents" As the passegers deplaned a young woman entered the cockpit and gave me her card. She was an IRS employee and was indeed, on duty in the casinos over the weekend. Of course that is cash and the value is indisputable but you see the lengths to which they will go when there is blood ($$) in the water.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1175 times:
Hold up...Is the guy from here or from Australia?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
Swiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1140 times:
Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 3): Today's paper listed IRS sources stating that whether he sells or not, he now has a tax liability of $210,000.00, based on their valuing the ball at $600,000.00.
I don't get it. Why does he have ot pay tax on something he caught?
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1123 times:
Quoting Swiftski (Reply 14): Why does he have ot pay tax on something he caught?
Hey there's lots about tax laws around the world that I don't get. Frankly I think the Orwellian "value added" tax is tyranny worthy of a coup d' etat but that is probably just my wild west genes talking.
If you find buried treasure it is taxable.
Gifts, outside of certain very narrow parameters, are taxable.
Windfall profits by oil companies USED TO BE taxable.
And so on.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
CasasEWR From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1113 times:
Quoting Boston92 (Reply 13): Hold up...Is the guy from here or from Australia?
He's from the US. Queens actually. Funny thing is, the guy is a mets fan.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1076 times:
Quoting CasasEWR (Reply 16): He's from the US. Queens actually. Funny thing is, the guy is a mets fan.
What would have happened if he was from Australia? Could the IRS even touch him?
Think of the Price Is Right. When those people win Cadillacs, they still have to pay taxes, but they were never awarded any cash...so the tax comes out of there own pocket.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
BristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
So he owes about $200k. What would happen in the meantine if the ball got stolen and it wasn't insured? Would he still be liable for the tax?
That would suck, big time!
He says he's gonna keep it - BS. Where would he keep it exactly? In the local bank's vault?
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 980 times:
so what does the IRS do if the guy decides to ruin the ball? Are all the pieces still worth 600k to them? Does the tax value fluxuate depending on the shape of the ball? It just seems rediculous to me, but such is the way with tax laws.
I can understand being taxed for winning a car. It has a set retail value that the show, or whoever, bought it for. but MLB bought this ball for like a buck. I realize that there are precedents in areas like game show cars, but are they in the same class as sports memorabilia like this? My limited amount of tax knowledge reminds me that there are many classes of taxes and what not, and maybe the ball is considered more of capital gains?
What about people that have old muscle cars sitting on their property? They used to be worth nothing unrestored, but since the market is hot for them now, a car in decent shape is worth a lot.
ORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 975 times:
Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 5): Why would you have to pay taxes on the ball if you don't sell?
Because of it's percieved value. It was estimated to be worth $600.000.00 based on the sales of other like memorabilia. SlamClick's posts have covered it pretty well.
Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 5): The ball is currently worth whatever MLB paid to manufacture it,
It's worth $600,000.00 according to the IRS. It cost about 12 bucks I imagine.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 906 times:
Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 20): It's worth $600,000.00 according to the IRS.
I still think that an item should only be taxed once. When you buy a used car that has been sold 6 other times, this is the 7th time the government has received money for the same item. Does not seem right to me.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 891 times:
Okay, the moment B*nds hit that ball it became worth $600K. Flying through the air on a trajectory that was going to take it out of the field of play, it was worth a young fortune.
Who owned the ball at that moment?
Is there an actual MLB or team policy regarding transfer of ownership of balls hit out of the field of play?
Would the IRS have to prove that the guy in question had the actual ball?
(No. Answering my own question, 'presumption of innocence' does not apply to tax law. You are guilty or otherwise liable until you prove otherwise in their court - which you can only do after paying the amount they seek.)
Could he sell it to someone (spouse for example) for a couple thousand and pay the taxes on that amount?
Could those of us who would not give two bits for that ball average the price downward?
If B*nds could only have hit the ball that far through illegal use of ster*ids does the current owner of the ball become a party to that offense?
Lots of interesting questions here.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
CasasEWR From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 23): Would the IRS have to prove that the guy in question had the actual ball?
I have heard, at least in the case of A-Rod's 500th, that every at bat leading up to that HR they used a ball that was specially marked. I assume that the mark was there to prevent anyone from trying to sell a ball that they claim was the 500th HR ball. One could assume that the same was done in Bonds case as well.
ORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 828 times:
Quoting CasasEWR (Reply 24): I have heard, at least in the case of A-Rod's 500th, that every at bat leading up to that HR they used a ball that was specially marked. I assume that the mark was there to prevent anyone from trying to sell a ball that they claim was the 500th HR ball. One could assume that the same was done in Bonds case as well.
I've heard the same thing about Barroid's ball. They were supposedly serialized from what I remember.
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It's worth $600,000.00 according to the IRS. It cost about 12 bucks I imagine.
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