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Illegal Aliens: Small Step In The Right Direction  
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6954639.stm

Quote:
A Mexican woman whose fight to stay in the US with her US-born son attracted national attention has been sent back to Mexico as an illegal immigrant.

Right on. "Anchor babies" have been used for far too long and it's good to see at least one case of the authorities cracking down on it. Shame it took so long.

165 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

This is absolutely horrible! I read this story this morning and I hope she is reunited with her son here in the United States.

Kudos to the United Methodist Church in Chicago for protecting her from being split from her child. She will be back here with her son sooner than you think.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Great to hear.

Also interesting is she was working at ORD as a cleaner. I assume she had access beyond security. Do people like this not get checked out first or is this another breech of security??


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
Quote:
A Mexican woman whose fight to stay in the US with her US-born son attracted national attention has been sent back to Mexico as an illegal immigrant.

Good.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
This is absolutely horrible!

No it's not. She's a criminal . . . illegally crossing an International Border is a crime. You still don't get it do you, 'Fly.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Kudos to the United Methodist Church in Chicago for protecting her from being split from her child.

Harboring a criminal . . . ohhh, good. And in the name of God.

Good riddance. Now grab the other 12 million or so and send them packing too.


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
This is absolutely horrible! I read this story this morning and I hope she is reunited with her son here in the United States.

Kudos to the United Methodist Church in Chicago for protecting her from being split from her child. She will be back here with her son sooner than you think.

She's a criminal. No matter how you paint it, or how vocal and public anyone (including her and her son) get about it, she's a criminal. Besides, I think she showed where her loyalities really lie in her own statement:

Quote:
"I only have two choices. I either go to my country, Mexico, or stay and keep fighting. I decided to stay and fight."

If she still claims Mexico as her country, she should have just damn well gone back there rather than carry on her ridiculous pilgrimage for a free ride in to a country she has no claim or tie to. If she wants to come back that bad, then when son turns 18, he can file to sponsor a green card for her.

The authorities did exactly the right thing. And they need to do this more often.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2427 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Good for her! Like Pep said, now let's go after the other 12 million.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

First of all, as some of you know, my wife and her family are from Mexico.

Here is our take on this, and it may be cruel to some.

What has happened is that in the last several years, ILLEGAL immigrants have essentially asked for and gotten the rights of lawful immigrants and citizens. I mean, why go thru all the hassle of becoming legal when you can do it for free. Not only that, from personal experience, some illegal immigrants are asking anywhere from $15 to $20/hr to do house cleaning.

We as Americans cannot simply go to another country and demand the same rights that country's citizens have.

While some may complain about the US immigration laws, they are nothing compared to laws in other places. For example, my wife's cousin, who is legally in Switzerland, had a daughter while legally there. Does her daughter hold Swiss citizenship? No.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

There is a sad conflict here. Her son is a legal American Citizen who is a lot better off being in the USA - except for not having his mother with him, however she was fair game to be arrested and deported. She crossed the border illegally at least 2 times and committed serious criminal acts of identity theft and using a stolen Social Sec. number (probably from a dead person) and used that identify to get a job in what is supposed to be a secure area of a major airport. Too bad they couldn't have arrested and prosecuted her on the criminal charges of identity and S.S.N. theft and upon conviction, ending up with a jail term for a while then deported. It could also be used to keep her from ever returning the USA legally again or apply for USA citizenship.

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
No it's not. She's a criminal . . . illegally crossing an International Border is a crime.

Not on any moral level. At best it is an infringement of an antiquated, reactionary and entirely arbitrary line on a map, devised by a bureaucratic requirement but with no moral validity. You can't stop population movements, something the Romans discovered to their cost. There will always be a natural and unstoppable trend of movement from areas with poor resources to areas with plentiful resources, it's as natural as osmosis. Borders are so 19th century.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
At best it is an infringement of an antiquated, reactionary and entirely arbitrary line on a map, devised by a bureaucratic requirement but with no moral validity.

International borders are "entirely arbitrary" - I don't think so. I'm on the side of good for sending her packing. Illegal is illegal, no matter the reason. Bye-bye!!


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
There is a sad conflict here. Her son is a legal American Citizen who is a lot better off being in the USA - except for not having his mother with him,

Send him to Mexico too.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 6):
For example, my wife's cousin, who is legally in Switzerland, had a daughter while legally there. Does her daughter hold Swiss citizenship? No.

That is because being born in Switzerland is not enough to gain citizenship, this is not the case in th US. Currently just about anyone born in the USA and its territories (children of diplomats notwithstanding) is born a US citizen. If they repealed this law then this 'case' would be a total non-event.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 9):
International borders are "entirely arbitrary" - I don't think so.

Of course they are - in very few cases do they reflect any kind of accurate natural ethnic or cultural boundaries. In the vast majority of cases they were drawn on a map as part of some treaty or other, and very seldom with the consent of the people across whose land the line actually travelled. Borders used to change all the time, as ethnic and cultural assimilation occurs, as economic power and influence fluctuated. Nowadays thanks to 19th century nationalism we're pretty much stuck with the crappy, unrealistic borders that were drawn then, with no option to recognise and accept natural evolution as demographics change. The only sensible option is to make borders irrelevant.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

While I feel for her son, it is the mother that put them in this situation in the first place. She (like many others) ignored the potential ramifications of having a child in the US while she was there illegally.

You cannot pick and choose which laws you want enforced, and which are inconvenient to you. The minute that happens, our entire legal system flies out the window.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
The only sensible option is to make borders irrelevant.

How then would you account for varying laws in different countries? Or are you saying there should be no "countries"? Just one big mass of humanity?

Perhaps borders will disappear when people stop trying to come in to commit acts of terrorism. Until then "everyone is welcome" is simply a pipe dream.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
Borders used to change all the time

USED to being the key word. If that were the case today.....

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 14):
How then would you account for varying laws in different countries?



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
The only sensible option is to make borders irrelevant.

Doesn't at all sound sensible to me.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 13):
You cannot pick and choose which laws you want enforced

Exactly. Look, I feel for the child as much as anybody, but if you send this women home, it sends a strong message, don't come here illegally or this could be your consequence. If you sweep this under the rug, it sends a strong message that you can get away with it in these circumstances. I vote for the first option.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 14):
How then would you account for varying laws in different countries? Or are you saying there should be no "countries"? Just one big mass of humanity?

Yes I'm saying there should be no countries. It is possible to maintain and grow unique and valuable cultural identity without the need to ring-fence it with the notion of a country. Countries imply that everyone within them has in some sense to be heterogenous, in order to comply with some arbitrary national "standard". This leads to nationalism, and nothing good ever came from nationalism. Like it or not, we ARE just one big mass of humanity, why create artificial differences when the natural differences between us are interesting enough already.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 14):
Perhaps borders will disappear when people stop trying to come in to commit acts of terrorism

Yeah, borders really help there. If 12 million illegals can wander across the Rio Grande, what's to stop the 12 millionth and one bringing a suitcase bomb with him ? Hell, a hundred bucks and good deal of patience will get you a US tourist visa, then who's going to stop you ?


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
The only sensible option is to make borders irrelevant.

Hahaha. There you go. You admit borders are in fact very relevant in today's world. Now, more than ever.

We can't rely on vast oceans to protect us. Instead, we need borders.

It's not impractical. Just try to go to Norway and become a citizen. Try. It's a very wealthy country that most humans would love to join. But unfortunately, they have border patrols with guns. Why? Because the Norwegians do not want 100 million newcomers to overrun their country and mess things up. This is Norway's privilege.

And, Mexico, a very middle-class country, is paradise for many of the world's poor. Do you suppose Mexico is eager to take 100 million Nigerians and Angolans? Of course not, Mexico would round them up and deport them if they came.

Your logic says that just by having babies, you can claim a rich nation's assets. Just send your offspring over there and collect the rewards. Just not the case. I do not understand the idea that anyone deserves the rewards of a successful society, even if they have not participated in that society. It disrespects the whole idea of the hard work it took to build a successful society. I am not entitled to things just because I was born. I am entitled to things because my society is well organized, helps me, and in return I will pay it back and more. To destroy the integrity of the society by an assault of amneotic fluid is simple biological warfare. This woman is doing no less.

China is also aware of this bio-colonization, which is what they are doing in Tibet, again using women as incubators to neutralize the Tibetan society biologically. I find that objectionable too, but for different reasons. Societies have rights equal to -- or greater than -- outside individual humans.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
illegally crossing an International Border is a crime.



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 4):
She's a criminal. No matter how you paint it, or how vocal and public anyone (including her and her son) get about it, she's a criminal.

You know in the United States we have something called laws - which both of you obviously do not respect, or read.

Entering the US illegally is a civil violation - not a crime. It is similar to, but less than, a parking ticket.

Now if you want to do something about illegal immigration, the needs to:

(1) Establish a national identidy card linked to a real-time database so forgeries will raise immediate alarms;

(2) Make it a felony with jail time for small business, infact any business, to employ someone without legal status;

(3) Eliminate the 'contractor' loophole

When there are no jobs and no possibility of jobs the flow of illegals will be substantially reduced.

Everything else, fences, border patrols, etc - is just some one getting rich off political connections.

And just to be clear - if she is here illegally, she needs to be deported - the age of her US citizen child does not matter.

She can be legally admitted to the US relatively quickly - but only from her home country.

[Edited 2007-08-20 19:49:07]

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 15):
if you send this women home, it sends a strong message, don't come here illegally or this could be your consequence.

I'm not sure it's a strong message. It's just showing we are not brain-dead, we still have a few brain cells working.

Sending 1 million of these visiting foreign friends home would be more of a "strong statement." Like, we have enjoyed having you here in our country, but now your visit has come to an end. Everyone has a home, including these women. Surely Mexico will allow these to bring their American babies home to Mexico. These are strong and useful women that Mexico should be proud to have. How can Mexico build its country when its most industrious people leave?

Mexico has plenty of money. It is simply a horribly governed middle-class country with a horrible education system. It is up to Mexicans to fix this. They are not short of money. I am not sure why I should feel sorry for them. Because in fact, they are asking for a profound charity. It's not standard procedure, it's asking to become brothers. I am not sure one always needs to consent to this request, even though it is flattering.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 18):

When there are no jobs and no possibility of jobs the flow of illegals will be substantially reduced.

Everything else, fences, border patrols, etc - is just some one getting rich off political connections.

You are absolutely correct. It's a mathematical fact that too few people understand. You have correctly identified the complete, 100% answer to this problem.

Those simple changes and this "intractable" issue is solved before 2007 is over. It may yet happen with these IRS "non-match" letters being sent out. That is one way to solve this problem, if they actually DO IT like they say they will.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 6):
While some may complain about the US immigration laws, they are nothing compared to laws in other places. For example, my wife's cousin, who is legally in Switzerland, had a daughter while legally there. Does her daughter hold Swiss citizenship? No.

In about 40-50 countries the US standard applies - children born in the country are legally entitled to be citizens of that country. (Many of those countries took their immigration / citizenship laws from the US)

But most developed countries have stricter limits.

In Japan, children of Japanese mothers married to US servicemen have NO rights to stay in that country after turning 21. (As of 1986 - might be wrong on that right now).

The US has a big problem compared to those other countries, we don't have a way to identify our citizens positively - not having a national idenity card system and database.

Both of my children HAD the right to citizenship in the Republic of the Philippines.

However, like the US - they had to initiate efforts to claim that citizenship before age 25.

A child born in the US, taken to Mexico and raised there to age 25 does not have US citizenship - even though he/she may have a US birth certificate. However due to our lack of an identity standard - that would not be uncovered until he/she applied for a passport.

[Edited 2007-08-20 19:56:42]

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
It's not impractical. Just try to go to Norway and become a citizen. Try.

I can very easily go to Norway, I don't even need a passport to do so. There is no border between Norway the rest of Europe, Norway has signed the Schengen Treaty. I may not be able to become a citizen, but why would I need to, I can live and work there without restrictions.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
But unfortunately, they have border patrols with guns. Why? Because the Norwegians do not want 100 million newcomers to overrun their country and mess things up. This is Norway's privilege.

They do ? Where ? I never saw them.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
t disrespects the whole idea of the hard work it took to build a successful society.

So you feel somehow deserving because by an accident of birth you were born in the USA. Was this your hard work ? No - it was blind luck.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
Societies have rights equal to -- or greater than -- outside individual humans.

Fascist claptrap. Societies only consist through the consent of the individuals of who make up that society. "Society" itself has no existence independent of its constituents.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 22):
Fascist claptrap. Societies only consist through the consent of the individuals of who make up that society. "Society" itself has no existence independent of its constituents.

We agree. However, those "constituents" do have a meaningful relationship. An enemy cannot simply inject amneotic fluid and "democratically" become part of that society. There need to be rules. Or, indeed, there will be no highly developed countries. Why bother, if you're just going to get amneotic fluid sprayed all over you?

Ultimately the defenses of borders arose as a biological necessity when humans passed the hunter-gatherer stage and settled on lands. The same biological necessity remains valid today. A rich country still cannot function with open borders. Dubai is a rare example, but the EU is _certainly_ ... certainly!!!! not an example of an open-border region.

Africa is just to the EU's south. Given open borders, the EU would essentially collapse into anarchy and the largest slums in the world. This is not a racist or fascist statement. It is simply a mathematical statement about what 500 million poor people would do to the EU in the space of 2 to 3 years. They would destroy it.

So, you are speaking nonsense.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 22):
So you feel somehow deserving because by an accident of birth you were born in the USA. Was this your hard work ? No - it was blind luck.

It's not about what I deserve. It is about what my society deserves. I am no better than the poorest baby in the world. However, my society is better than the poorest and most lawless societies. I think it is good that my society is functioning well. If I simply give that society away, I participate in its destruction. I am not overly concerned with my own comfort. I will be fine either way. It's the society I feel proud of, and therein lies a duty for me to protect it.


25 Mt99 : You cannot be seriously be asking this question. Why? I dont know what work you do (and i really dont care) but i would bet that whatever is that you
26 JGPH1A : How is letting other, economically vital people participate in the growth and continued prosperity of that society, "destroying" it ? Formal borders
27 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Haven't read my profile have you . . . And based on the balance of your post, you haven't read much of posts on this either . . . No matter . . . I'v
28 KaiGywer : Along the Norway/Russia border. Only Norwegian military personnel armed while on duty in time of peace. Although, getting into Norway isn't that hard
29 JGPH1A : Oh, OK - thanks for the clarification.
30 AndesSMF : I think the discussion you have started almost deserves another thread, and you have certainly brought up some interesting points. First of all, trav
31 DC10extender : Finally. This should stop those illegals with anchor babies from thumbing their noses at U.S. immigration laws. I think that separation from loved one
32 JGPH1A : The solution might therefore be to make the difference less staggering. Is it realistic to suppose that in the absence of a border, every single Mexi
33 MaidensGator : The problem with this is that the time, money, and manpower devoted to this high-profile case could have been used much more effectively in either pre
34 AndesSMF : The law has actually changed, IIRC, and babies no longer get immediate citizenship upon a US birth. The problem, of course, is a lot more complicated
35 JGPH1A : When did that change ? My brother's kids got US citizenship at birth, 4 years ago. That's true, but again, we tend to end up with the politicians we
36 Slider : Sadly, you're probably right. Because they deported her to Tijuana, where she can just traipse back across. THey should have airlifted her deep in-co
37 JGPH1A : It is also a nation of immigrants. What ever happened to giving the little guy an even break ? Isn't that the American Way ? Or is it just about pull
38 Flighty : Well fine, you can go live in the world of 1,000 years ago. It was better in many ways. But personally, I enjoy my high standard of living that my so
39 Post contains images Superfly : Free trip to Cancun? Seriously though, there is no way a high profile case like this will keep a mother and child separated. She will return to her s
40 57AZ : Also, to make one more point the United States Constitution grants citizenship to all persons born or naturalized in the United States or it's Territo
41 Slider : Yes, and we fueled our growth not by opening up the borders unilaterally but by being selective. What people forget while they lose the argument whil
42 Post contains images JGPH1A : To have a borderless world right away would be very risky, I won't deny that. But is it unreasonable to have that as an aim ? And you're right, democ
43 Mham001 : Deporting parents of citizens is nothing new, it's been going on for awhile. The parent has a choice, leave the children with legal guardians or take
44 JGPH1A : Glad to hear it, but the US is also the largest country in the developed world, by population, so that's not exactly surprising. Economic necessity,
45 Tsaord : I'm so glad that woman was sent back after refusing to leave last year here in Chicago. But ICE should have sent her son with her. Its a shame that th
46 Slider : YES it is because it is diametrically opposed to human nature. Ergo, it is unachievable.
47 Tsaord : Great response. I agree completely. But now what is the USA going to do with twelve million of them? There are too many loopholes in the system with
48 Mham001 : She should consider herself lucky that she's not sitting in a jail cell.
49 JGPH1A : Human nature changes, it's called evolution. 1000 years ago it wasn't "human nature" to consider women as equals - in most cultures they were simply
50 Mham001 : As pressure grows, they will tire of the stress of the possibility being deported for a traffic light violation, etc. and there will be natural, prog
51 JGPH1A : Perhaps they do the jobs that Americans don't want to have to do. And the illegal immigrants do the same job for less overall cost (not necessarily l
52 AndesSMF : As some are not quite aware of, the developed world does suffer from a shortage of population. Right after WWII, the Western economies prospered from
53 SlamClick : Nonsense. Worse than nonsense it is evil. It advocates a growing population as an engine of operating a Ponzi-scheme economy. That is the problem. An
54 LAXspotter : Couldnt agree with your more on all the points It is unfortunate however that the little kid has to suffer from something like this. Wonder where his
55 Halls120 : A long overdue move. Actually, it is a welcome event. If her son wants to be with mom, I suggest he be reunited with her ASAP - in Mexico. Who died a
56 LAXspotter : I have a feeling its gonna be like east LA in no time. yeah, but where is the dad? Its a sad situation illegal but immigrants shouldn't be having kid
57 Aloha73G : It is simple. If you break the law, you pay the price. I agree...she took the risk and if it is so important to her to be in the US she should have do
58 LAXspotter : I wanna know some of the jobs that "americans" wont do. Believe it or not, many legal citizens of the US who are of Hispanic heritage still do the jo
59 Post contains images AndesSMF : Tell me of any business that succeeds with less customers in the future. Tell me of any business than can run successfully with less customers in the
60 Fumanchewd : I can't believe that people actually defend this type of behavior. Here it comes.. You are so modern and intellectual! You are right, all countries s
61 Post contains links and images Halls120 : Check out the following from the French Embassy's website. Guess JGPH1A's enlightened stance hasn't been instituted as official French government pol
62 SlamClick : Rather than respond point by point just tell me this. Can planet earth feed a population of a trillion people? No resorting to magic now, real world
63 SlamClick : That is precisely the kind of wild-ass extrapolation that makes discussion here so pointless. OBVIOUSLY I said nothing of the sort. All I advocate is
64 Ajd1992 : Ok then, fair comment. But it's god damn unethical, and immoral. The US Government obviously takes the law before family. I can see the Government's
65 Halls120 : And if she does, she should be arrested and deported. She's free to take her son with her back to Mexico. How about you agree to sponsor them in Denm
66 ZOTAN : You do understand that it is next to impossible for your average Mexican Immigrant to come here legally correct?
67 SlamClick : Why does every "ethical" solution depend on the adult, the mother coming to the USA? The kids COULD go to Mexico you know. This is NOT about breaking
68 Halls120 : No, I don't understand that to be correct. Of the more than 1.2 legal immigrants in the US in 2006, over 137,000 were Mexican citizens - by far the l
69 Mham001 : Utter BS. The mother has the choice of taking her son with her. The fact that she is now separated from him is a direct result of HER life choices. N
70 Ajd1992 : Uhh.... ok. I'm not Danish though. I'm English. But for the moment, my nationality and my mother tounge are not important. Oh, before you accuse me o
71 Post contains images Halls120 : Good for you. How about sponsoring mother and son in England then? well, that's mom's problem, isn't it? She broke the law by illegally entering the
72 Ajd1992 : I'm not a citizen, i don't have to. I don't live there, so they don't apply to me. Even if I was a citizen, i wouldn't go out of my way to break them
73 Overlander : I always remember a cartoon from 'Matt' in the Daily Telegraph in the UK. The Australian government had expressed your same sentiments and in the car
74 LAXspotter : go elsewhere, or create a better Mexico/Central America.
75 LAXspotter : are you kididng? more than likely this kid is going to grow up in low-income housing area exposed to gang warfare and drugs, he is bound to get invol
76 Halls120 : Yet you seem to have no problem with the mother in question breaking our laws. Easy to do when you don't have to live with the problem, isn't it? New
77 LAXspotter : It seems many ppl from elsewhere dont see the problems caused by illegal immigration. Just take a trip to East LA or South Los Angeles. It looks like
78 Ajd1992 : Just because he's "Mexican" he's going to get into drugs and gang warfare? I'm sure you'd want it in Mexico, but stop being so cynical and try and fi
79 Halls120 : At least you're honest, I'll give you that. No. If you illegally enter the United States, you are subject to deportation. Regardless of whether you a
80 Overlander : I am sure you have many places in your country that they may be familiar with. Perhaps if you could look back a little bit in time they might find so
81 LAXspotter : they created their problems, I have noticed that most hispanic kids, and this is from personal experience as a result of being in school in LA for al
82 Ajd1992 : I accept that, but sometimes morals have to take precedent. She was working, to try and support a son. I pity the people who think she's some bad ass
83 Halls120 : What's wrong with your country? Why are you being so generous with our country and our resources? Come on, step up! What's the problem with extending
84 Post contains images Superfly :   I agree as well. Elian only had one living parent and he should have been with his only living parent in Cuba. Keep in mind I opposed our immigrat
85 Overlander : You find it difficult to reconcile yourself as an immigrant (please tell me when we should draw the boundray on being an immigrant.) If you wish to h
86 Halls120 : My ancestors came here as legal immigrants in the 19th century. I have no problem reconciling that with my presence here today. No, they aren't. My a
87 Overlander : No Halls120, I do not understand the legallaty. I am not an attorney/lawyer. I understand morality. All the best, Overlander
88 Post contains links AndesSMF : Remember, all I have stated is that many countries have BELOW replacement level of fertility, which means that like Japan, their population is alread
89 Tsaord : Americans need to rally and march just as much as these illegals are doing like they have the right to. We need to make out voices heard. I fear our p
90 Mham001 : I think the voters have made their voices heard. I noticed a distinct change in Congress after they went home and heard their constituents after the
91 AndesSMF : Bingo! Find out about how Mexico treats their illegal immigration problem from Guatemala. And overlander, frankly, Europeans have no right to critici
92 Overlander : Dear AndesSNF, As you are being frank, please tell me where I critised your immigration policies? All the best, Overlander
93 Access-Air : I think if the SANCTUARY CITES stop ignoring Federal laws and alert ICE about Illegal Immigrants we could nip this in the bud. Too many of these citie
94 Aaron747 : Larry, did it ever cross your mind that as a responsible mother, she should have insisted on taking her son back to Mexico with her? This woman allow
95 LAXspotter : Frankly the US is the most acceptive of immigrants. Immigrants in the US can climb up the social structure and integrate into "mainstream" american so
96 57AZ : Therein lies a base root of the problem. As mentioned previously, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America clearly stat
97 Fumanchewd : Yes. But that's because there are already so many illegal immigrant here taking possible legal immigrant spots. There are less European, Asian, and A
98 57AZ : It is from all over the world, it's just that the illegals from Latin America are the most convienient targets at the moment. Don't forget that there
99 Aloha73G : You don't need a Constitutional Convention to amend The Constitution. Both houses of Congress must pass an amendment by a super majority vote (2/3 of
100 JGPH1A : Did you not get the memo ? Sarkozy is a fascist, everyone knows that. Had I been allowed to vote in France, I'd have voted for Segolene. "Pouring in"
101 Halls120 : Well then, why don't you do the "moral" thing and sponsor this woman as a resident of your country? No. LOL, he was elected leader of France, wasn't
102 JGPH1A : Yes, precisely because of his semi-racist demagoguery - France, the older population in particular, when it comes right down to it, is fundamentally,
103 Post contains images Halls120 : Well, why don't you send her the money she needs to live here then? It would be the moral thing to do, after all.
104 JGPH1A : I thought it wasn't a question of money, but of her legal status. She was earning money perfectly well on her own - her ability to support herself fi
105 Overlander : Well, I was rather hoping you could take the moral high ground and embrace your fellow immigrant. All the best, Overlander
106 ORFflyer : We're not discussing a "fellow immigrant" We've been discussing an illegal alien.
107 Overlander : Oh yes, how silly of me to be so ignorant, I have missed the point completely. There I was dismayed by the irony of this situation, but now I have be
108 IFEMaster : Actually, sir, look in to the case. She was arrested in 2002 for using a fake SSN. That is a crime. She was convicted. Ergo, she is a criminal. She a
109 Halls120 : My ancestors came here legally, so I have very little in common with her.
110 SlamClick : Yes, rather like driving down the highway. A couple of the cars are stolen. Therefore a couple of the drivers are criminals and the rest are not. It
111 ORFflyer : No problem - we've seen some of your other posts and are used to it. Very good - try to remember that when posting.
112 SlamClick : That is a good thing. That is a good thing. That is one of the reasons I buy their products. (I presently own four Toyotas) Like that is supposed to
113 AndesSMF : I stand corrected. See below for further response. You left me speechless... To repeat, my wife is a Mexican national, and I am mostly repeating her
114 IFEMaster : Here here. I think that's what pisses me off the most. With all the money and time I spent doing things the right way, it angers me that there are mi
115 Mt99 : What are you complaining about? Are you jealous? Please read Post 25 - i responded to a post of yours that had a similar intent. and i am still curio
116 Mt99 : WTF? I probably went through the same stuff as you did, and it wont me feel any better to demand others to go thru the same crap i went thru. That ju
117 Slider : If you understand morality, then you should understand exactly why illegal immigration must be curtailed and laws enforced. Morality would then dicta
118 SBBRTech : I always wondered why the yankees (and confederates for that matter) put up with crap like that? Have you checked the immigration laws in Mexico? They
119 Flighty : Yes. The Latino organizations are actually promoting discrimination. They don't want 10 million immigrant spots divided equally among visa applicants
120 AndesSMF : I wasn't asking about me, I was asking about those who come here illegally. Some are asking and getting $30/hr, tax free. Could I demand the wages of
121 IFEMaster : Me, passive aggressive? Nice one... You've got it all wrong by the way. It's not about what I went through or "punishing" anyone. It's about being la
122 Mt99 : Why can the get it? Because the market bears it. If its such a big problem for you that they get paid so much, why dont you ask for the same wages wh
123 AndesSMF : Right. Which goes back to my point of saying that there is an insufficient number of people to do work in the US. Otherwise, these people would not g
124 Post contains images Mt99 : Thanks i try Ill have to take your word for it that you do not feel "cheated". For the record. - i do think that these people are indeed illegal and
125 Mt99 : Sound like you feel cheated. Do you truly believe that the illegal immigrants (unskilled, no english) would be able to reach your economic level by v
126 Overlander : Please see my earlier reply. Your words are very ironic. I am sure they were spoken many years ago and no doubt with justification (without the need
127 AndesSMF : Let me see if I can respond well. No, I don't feel cheated. What bothers me is that some of these illegal immigrants are asking for the same benefits
128 SBBRTech : Nah, maybe thats true in the Bouvet Island, but farm lands go uncultivated in Latin America because most lands are owned by a bunch of oligarchical f
129 Mt99 : Huh? You seem to be implying that a business would hire rather hire an illegal immigrant for more better pay than an American at a lower wage. I must
130 Mt99 : I never said that the farmers owned the land. I said that they work on it. Even if the farm are owned by oligarchical families and agro-business mafi
131 SBBRTech : You misunderstood my point, what i´m saying is that the land stays unproductive not because the (physical) workers are lazy creeps waiting for some
132 Post contains links AndesSMF : No, these are the wages demanded by 'independant contractors'; landscapers and housecleaners. http://www.mexica-movement.org/ENTER1c.htm Part of the
133 Mt99 : Technically those are not "benefits." Those are "demands". Thats completely different. There are extremist groups everywhere. That seems to be the ca
134 Post contains links Tsaord : http://www.suntimes.com/news/cepeda/518245,CST-NWS-cepeda21.article On Elvira Arellano by Esther Cepeda. I do not always agree with this woman but her
135 57AZ : I stand corrected as mentioned above in regards to the Congressional amendment process. Not entirely true. The specific intent was to give legal stat
136 Tsaord : Latino Immigrants will continue to sufer the backlash of this because they are the ones who are making the most noise and Senora Arellano didn't make
137 Aloha73G : Great Article. She really hit it out of the ballpark!! My favorite line: Adios, and Good Riddance!! Another interesting thought....those of us here i
138 LAXspotter : My feeling from experience is that most Hispanic immigrants dont look forward to stressing education to their kids, I noticed that the majority of th
139 AndesSMF : Oh, boy... Look, here is the gist of the story. In LatAm, there are two classes basically. The poor and the rich. Differences between races was very
140 Overlander : Unfortunately, I did not read this tread completely from the start, my apologies. But, before I saddle up and send some immigrants packing, where do I
141 Flighty : Andes, thank you for at least giving us a little bit of reality about Latin America. Here, we do a lot of complaining about Latin Americans when that
142 57AZ : Well, for starters it helps that you have a giant moat called the Pacific Ocean providing a great obstacle. Here in AZ, the border is nothing more th
143 Post contains images Alias1024 : It may be a "mathematical" fact, but it is completely impractical. The US has tried this solution to problems before, and it failed miserably. Curren
144 Post contains images Derico : I'm sure the United States is the only country even in this hemisphere that has to deal with immigration issues... Woop-t-doo, good luck with it.
145 Halls120 : I disagree. As noted in an earlier post, I have a far less draconian solution. Here's how we end the problem of illegal immigration - in a moral and
146 57AZ : In order to be successful, the quotas for said guest worker program would have to be flexible enough to match the actual supply and demand model. Mor
147 Post contains images Yanksn4 : Providing they take and pass an english test, as well as full medical and pay back full range of taxes (for those who first entered illegally). I wou
148 Aerofan : hmmmmmmmm well tell that to the 3 college bound kids who were just executed in New Jersey. Wasn't one of the shooters an illegal immigrant from Peru?
149 Mt99 : I would say first offense. Why second? How many innocent people were killed by US citizens? That is so dumb. How would you account for that? Its impa
150 Alias1024 : The first and third points won't get any argument from me, but the second is where I just don't see it working. Without severe punishments companies
151 Post contains links and images AndesSMF : BTW, Ms. Arellano now states that the US broke the law first, by 'allowing' her to cross the border w/o papers. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d69_118
152 Aerofan : and had our army or police force shot her as she was breaking the law, you would have heard how barbaric we are i can see she's learnt to play the bla
153 Mt99 : Yes i do. I was proving a point. Guess you missed it.. If you want it explained - ill gladly write something up.
154 Yanksn4 : well if that's too difficult to get, then the Mexican gov. and other nations with the most illegals here should have to foot the bill for the service
155 Aaron747 : Actually, that should read 'her opportunist, unethical and unyielding handlers had her state that...'
156 L-188 : I am not sure it really matters, but it does show the contempt that she has for the laws of the US, which she willing broke.
157 Aaron747 : It certainly matters, because there are large, well-funded organizations seeking to promote lawlessness like hers and they'll put sympathy cases like
158 FlyingTexan : Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
159 AndesSMF : She made her speech in front of the Mexican congress...
160 Post contains images Halcyon : Back then the Indians fought back. Ask Custer.
161 Aerofan : MT99:Yes i do. I was proving a point. ... Yes you did - a dumb one!
162 Post contains images Fumanchewd : What do people in Asia have to do with illegal immigrants in the US? For the record there is a history of Native American tribes conquering other tri
163 SlamClick : Well, sort of. The "Clovis" school holds that it is likely that a migration across the Bering land bridge some 12000 + years ago found the the entire
164 Fumanchewd : Without even discussing the intercontinental migration, there has always been a migratory and intermingling of peoples. Whether it was a peaceful coh
165 AndesSMF : Anglo-Saxons were not from England, originally. The Normadie part of France was named after the Norsemen (Vikings) etc.
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