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Southern California Traffic: Big Problem?  
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

Is the traffic in the Southland a really BIG problem that needs a fix?

I fly about once a week. I estimate 75% from SBA, 15% from SMX, and the other 10% from LAX. On my last journey down to LAX, a 100 mile trip, took a little less than SIX hours. I did not stop once (other than the stopping done on the 405). My flight from LAX departed at 7:50p. On the way down, United called me three times delaying it to 8:50p. Good thing because I got to the airport landside at 8:15p, and was in the secure area by 8:25p.

Traffic started in Santa Barbara, CA and was pretty much off and on for the 4 hours down to the 405. Once on the 405, the 16 mile drive to LAX took 2 hours.

This was the worst time I have ever made. I have made it in 2 before, but mostly between 2 and 3.

Does something need to be done about Los Angeles' traffic problem or do we Californians just have to live with it and leave the house 7 hours before our flight leaves?


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Traffic is quite bad in LA, but I dont think it's the worst in the nation. However, yes traffic does get quite bad in LA, specifically the 405 close to LAX, the 10 and 60 just east of Downtown LA, not to mention the other freeways that get clogged. I really hate driving in Metropolitan LA, but out here in the Inland Empire near San Bernardino, not too much traffic to worry about.


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Honestly, what can be done to clear up a huge metropolis? Besides building multilevel freeways and offering high speed rail service up and down the coast, we're left with either paying $400 for a round trip ticket from a CA city to LA, or dealing with the 7 hours of traffic.

My grandmother is going to Torrance tomorrow (I'm in San Diego), and we looked into taking the Surfliner, but the nearest station to Torrance that wouldn't involve backtracking, is Fullerton, which is about 30 miles away. For $24 plus tax, that's a pretty good deal, and it only takes 2:30. By car to Torrance, you would theoretically only need about the same time, but add in tourists, traffic, and more tourists (the 3 T's), it could take much longer, not to mention it would involve driving lol. It looked like I was going to have to drive her up, and I was really unhappy about having to potentially deal with LA traffic (San Diego traffic gets bad but I can't complain in relation to LA lol).

So basically, we are left with a handful of extremely lame options (driving/traffic, expensive airline tickets, etc), meaning that yes, we hafta suck it up and add the extra 7 hours of commute time  Yeah sure

Unless of course someone creates a 10 tier freeway, but knowing us, we would clog that up just as much Big grin

Sean


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Thread starter):
Southern California Traffic: Big Problem?

Question asked and answered.  Wink

Quoting Boston92 (Thread starter):
Does something need to be done about Los Angeles' traffic problem or do we Californians just have to live with it and leave the house 7 hours before our flight leaves?

You've made your bed now go sleep in it.  Wink

My wife didn't believe me that it could take 90 minutes to go the 30 some odd miles from Anaheim to Hollywood a couple of weeks ago. Once we left the "Wall of Orange" it was bumper to bumper the entire way at slow enough speeds to get carjacked on the I-5 going through South Central.  Wink



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

I prefer to marvel at how fast those long narrow parking lots move.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineLgbga From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

By the Texas Transportation Institute's reckoning, the cities having the worst traffic problems are:

1. Los Angeles, Long Beach, Santa Ana, Calif.

2. San Francisco, Oakland, Calif.

3. Washington, D.C.

4. Atlanta

5. Houston

6. Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington, Tex.

7. Chicago.

8. Detroit

9. Riverside, San Bernardino, Calif.

9. Orlando, Fla.

11. San Jose, Calif.

12. San Diego

California has a decided edge in winning the award for the worst traffic, since five of its cities (or city regions) make the top 12 list. Several of the cities mentioned are well known as trucking, rail, air and sometimes sea hubs for logistics. The convergence of services taxes the infrastructure.

http://www.forbes.com/logistics/2006...-nightmares-cx_rm_0207traffic.html

This article mentions it and one thing I noticed when driving in LA traffic, is that the traffic is constant, whereas in ATL there are rush hours and times when traffic clears up. I guess the traffic is the swap out for your perfect So Cal weather.


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

Quoting Frontiercpt (Reply 2):
offering high speed rail service up and down the coast,

There lies the problem, the lack of Public Transportation. If you compare it with NYC, LA is a much bigger area, but if I remember that even with so much Public Transport in NY, traffic is still a big mess in NY. If they started making public transportation more accessible, then the traffic problem could be cleared to a certain extent.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
low enough speeds to get carjacked on the I-5 going through South Central. Wink

LOL, have there been any instances when ppl have actually been carjacked on the Freeway traveling at low speeds?



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineTherock401 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

Last March, I was in Southern California to see The Price is Right and to go to a couple of events in different parts of the basin. I had a seperate car from the other people I was there with.

Anyway, on Friday night after being at Knott's Berry Farm all day, we drove from our previous hotel near Knott's in Buena Park to our new hotel in Valencia near Six Flags Magic Mountain. The other guys drove right through downtown on the I-5, and I ducked onto east 91 to north 57, past San Dimas to the 210, then west through Pasadena and Burbank to meet up with the I-5 at the head of the San Fernando Valley. To make a long story short, I pulled into the hotel just behind the other guys, despite taking a route that was 26 miles further. I was actually clicking along at 70-78 mph the whole time. The only reason they beat me to the hotel was that I missed the Magic Mountain Parkway exit, and had to go up to the next one and double back. Damn CalTrans deciding to not have another lane at that exit and that exit only...  Angry

What amazed me about that drive (and my day of roaming around on Saturday) was just how damn big the LA basin is, and how it goes on for miles and miles with the same densities, types of houses, etc.

At least SoCal drivers are predictable. By that I mean they are usually pretty good at sorting themselves out by lane speed when cars get bunched up. Sometimes I think drivers here in Seattle don't know what way is forward.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

I think, in some ways, the probalem cannot be fixed, just curbed. No one wants to spend their tax money on improving the flow of traffic. Note that, the flow of traffic doesn't care for how many new cars enter the roads due to non-resident, new residents or current residents buying new cars. I've read some people would like those moving here to go away -- yeah that helps maintain the current problem, doesn't fix anything.  Yeah sure

Others have mentioned public transportation, but it for the most part is expensive and don't go everywhere. Well wouldn't that be chicken-egg then? Currently, here in San Diego, it gets more expensive (which reduces the riders, which makes the fares go up -- see trend) and some routes close out while those popular ones expand. Drivers need a compelling enough reason to ditch their car (with their own AC and nobody to bother them) for a ride on a bus which may start out expensive but if enough got on the fare woudl drop. Would you do invest in this? If not, then it is also why people continue to drive and insist on not carpooling - hence traffic.

I don't agree with widening the freeways a single lane on both sides every couple of years. I'm more inclined that a double deck freeways be installed for those planning on longer trips, increase flow without using more land or making new freeway lines through a neighborhood or a forest. Noise reduction fences can be added on the sides to prevent neighboring communities from bitching about the supposed increase in noise.  Yeah sure

For distances out to LA or farther, I vote on trains, specifically a faster one. I think part of san diego's future airport "problems" can be negated with better-faster (and with future technology assuming a significant number of people choose train over bumper-to-bumper)-cheaper rides. But this line has to be elevated, for safety and allowing higher velocities, without going through crosses all the time.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

Orlando is a mess at 5PM. Never been to LAX nor do I hope to experience it there. Is it worse than NY?

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
There lies the problem, the lack of Public Transportation.

Well, back seventy years ago, LA and the Inland Empire HAD high speed transit provided by the Pacific Electric lines. Sadly, the morons in charge of the state's transportation department at the time allowed it to be eliminated piece by piece, replacing it in areas with a "free" way. What irony. LA made it's bed and can lay in it for all I care. Too bad for the later generations that have to suffer due to their ancestors and their bad choices. As for San Francisco, it could be worse. At least their citizens woke up and put a stop to City Hall's insanity when they tried to pull the plug on San Francisco Municipal Railway's cable cars. They realized that they had a transportation treasure that made the city unique and refused to let a few idiots ruin things for the city. As one San Franciscan said, "Without the cable cars, we're just an LA with hills."



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 12):
Well, back seventy years ago, LA and the Inland Empire HAD high speed transit provided by the Pacific Electric lines. Sadly, the morons in charge of the state's transportation department at the time allowed it to be eliminated piece by piece, replacing it in areas with a "free" way. What irony. LA made it's bed and can lay in it for all I care. Too bad for the later generations that have to suffer due to their ancestors and their bad choices. As for San Francisco, it could be worse. At least their citizens woke up and put a stop to City Hall's insanity when they tried to pull the plug on San Francisco Municipal Railway's cable cars. They realized that they had a transportation treasure that made the city unique and refused to let a few idiots ruin things for the city. As one San Franciscan said, "Without the cable cars, we're just an LA with hills."

I'have a feeling that somone is trying to restrict the existence of high-speed and easily accessible public transport.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2539 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
There lies the problem, the lack of Public Transportation.

Exactly! LA has 6 metro lines- the Red, Orange, Gold, Green, Blue, and Purple (ah the gay rainbow), whereas New York City has....well...I'm not even going to count them because there are too many. LA has enough people to warrant a tangled spaghetti style subway system ala NYC, but only has a modified T-shape route system. Even San Diego only has three Trolley lines, the Green, Blue, and Orange. They work pretty well and cover the commuters from most parts of the city, but there are still vast parts of San Diego left untouched by a rapid-commute system. The Coaster covers the beach cities, but people in northern San Diego are miles from anything besides a bus route.

And if people had the option of sitting on a cramped commuter train between four people while trying to draft the next document to save the world, OR relaxing behind the wheel of their brand new BMW (though sitting stuck in traffic)....I don't think many people would be willing to give up their superfluous luxuries...

~Sean


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting Frontiercpt (Reply 14):
Exactly! LA has 6 metro lines- the Red, Orange, Gold, Green, Blue, and Purple (ah the gay rainbow), whereas New York City has....well...I'm not even going to count them because there are too many. LA has enough people to warrant a tangled spaghetti style subway system ala NYC, but only has a modified T-shape route system.

Well believe it or not, they are in the final stages of beginning a line to run from Wilshire & Western --> WEST and right through Beverly Hills (which I don't know how they're gonna pull that off - NIMBY-wise) continuing west all the way to Santa Monica. This will undisputedly be the most popular route ever! What the City needs to build is a North/South line running from Westwood/West LA to LAX on to Long Beach station..that would suck off so much 405 traffic it would practically end discussion of ever building another freeway. Just for the hell of it I took the Hollywood/Vine subway to Downtown LA (it actually starts in the Valley) - just to try it out (and believe me..earthquake was on my mind the entire time I was underground)- but I was amazed at how clean and efficient it was...no reason on the planet not to expand it!

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3565 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting Lgbga (Reply 5):
By the Texas Transportation Institute's reckoning, the cities having the worst traffic problems are:

1. Los Angeles, Long Beach, Santa Ana, Calif.

2. San Francisco, Oakland, Calif.

3. Washington, D.C.

4. Atlanta

5. Houston

6. Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington, Tex.

7. Chicago.

8. Detroit

9. Riverside, San Bernardino, Calif.

9. Orlando, Fla.

11. San Jose, Calif.

12. San Diego

I have to strongly question the veracity of this report. Seattle is not even on the list and is easily worse than San Jose, mainly due to its idiot drivers.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 16):
Seattle is not even on the list and is easily worse than San Jose, mainly due to its idiot drivers.

I had to question my wisdom when I moved to Seattle a few years ago. The first sign of "civilization" as I came down off Snoqualmie Pass was a sign that said:

PLEASE DRIVE WRECKS
TO SIDE OF ROAD

Seemed like a bad omen!

Taking that as a warning I ended up with a quarter mile drive to work.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 15):
that would suck off so much 405 traffic

Lord knows that would save the world and halt the apocalypse!  angel 


User currently offline747srule From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

A lot of problems. First off, too many on and off ramps. Ever heard of limited access freeways? It seems like there is an off ramp every half mile.Come on!! Next thing, too many people( I refuse to call them drivers)not knowing where they are going.Moving over three lanes to exit.ABSOLUTELY NOTHING pisses me off as much as this. Multi-tasking while behind the wheel is trouble waiting to happen. Rubber necking is also a major problem.This happened to me yesterday on I-10 in Montclair. Cost me 20 minutes.My solution is to install something like a blackbox or CVR in EVERY car. If you cause an on purpose(there is no such thing as an accident) you are liable for ALL financial restitution. This means all the police and emergency vehicles,damages to other cars,and any other incidentals. Also, you lose your license immediately forever. Public transportation will be your best friend. Imagine the embarrassment when you explain that you were at fault in a wreck and you can't drive anymore. I suspect once people get wind of this,conditions will surely improve.


Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

On my way from LAX a few weeks ago, we hit about 1 hour of bumber to bumper on the 101. Want to know why? A CHP was sitting on the side of the highway. No accident, no nothing. A simple cop slowed traffic down for MILES. These are the types of things that can be easily fixed.

Also, when any highway is three or more lanes, Trucks and other vehicles with trailers need to be FORBIDDEN from the left lane.

Cops also need to enforce the "Slower Traffic Keep Right" rule. Blocking traffic is more dangerous than speeding.

Something BIG needs to be done to improve the problems. Small improvements such as the Orange Line, cost way too much money for a result that does barely nothing.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

The vast problem lies in funding the construction of such a subway. LA has the added problem of seismic activity, which requires that the tunnels be resistant to damage resulting from seismic activity below the minimum threshold. You also have to relocate utilities along the proposed routes. As for comfort, many commuter trains are fairly comfortable-it all depends on the style of seat that the agency decides to go with. To replace the network that the Pacific Electric and Los Angeles Street Railway had with a comprehensive modern subway network will cost billions of dollars.

As for the New York subway, bear in mind that with the exception of the IND (Independant Subway Company-owned by the City of New York), the rest of the network was privately built and operated until the 1940s. The majority of the current system is former IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit) and BMT (Brooklyn Metropolitan Transit) lines that were originally built and operated as fierce competitors. Speed, safety and convienence were the main concerns. Rather than use expensive tunnel boring (except for under the rivers), the companies used the more efficient "cut and cover" methods. The lines were bought out by NYC in the late 1920s. Thus the city got a network that was constructed with the efficiency and economy of private operation at a fraction of what it would have cost the city to build itself.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

The key to getting around LA is the side street. Best invention ever. (you know what i mean by that, right?) Anyway, the key to driving in Los Angeles is know the side streets, learn them, love them. If the 405 is jammed, and your going to Valencia, no problem, there are quite a number of passes over the mountains, Sepulveda Pass isn't the only connector between the westside and the valley. Going between Santa Monica and Downtown? is the 10 clogged? no worries, Ocean Park moves, Pico has tons of parallel side streets to take you downtown. you just have to stake an alternative to the freeway to live here.


Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1330 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

The LA traffic problem has been a problem for far too long, yet it seems that progress is made at snail-pace. Who's to blame? Way too long a list to even bother. The reasons for this problem have already been outlined here:
- too many people using a freeway system designed for fewer residents
- not enough public transportation to make it a viable option
- cars are still cheap enough, and gas still cheap enough to keep folks in their cars
- the suburban nature of the city, and everybody chasing the "american dream" of a house with a white picket fence
- seismic area makes subways expensive and double decker highways not attractive
- Resident groups that oppose highway expansions and rail lines near their residences
- and did I say too many people?

To fix it our officials will have to look at other major metro areas (NYC, Tokyo, London, etc) and look at other countries (like Germany), copy what can be done in LA, and implement it. Ultimately, the inadequate infrastructure will be the driver of an exodus from LA, cause I can't imagine many people accepting this for too long (I know I'm outta here once my current contract is over). The LA traffic is here to stay (much like in NYC, Tokyo, and London); what we can do is provide the alternatives so that future generations can ditch the car and catch a bus/train/rail etc to whatever they're going. It must be done.


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
Who's to blame?

I don't know, but the Mayor needs to stop sleeping with Telemundo reporters, and start doing something productive. Since he has been mayor, has he really done anything productive?



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 24):
I don't know, but the Mayor needs to stop sleeping with Telemundo reporters, and start doing something productive. Since he has been mayor, has he really done anything productive?

I dont know, but the media really doesnt focus on what the mayor is achieving.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

LA can certainly improve their lot, but they will never be able to achieve the results of London or New York. London's underground was started in the 1860s and grew with the city-that's the first subway in the world incidentally. Likewise, NYC built their subways while the city was still in it's initial growth phase.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
25 Post contains images Confuscius : I've been lucky the last few times I drove through LA. Sure there was traffic but not the usual congestion. I'm driving through LA this weekend...knoc
26 Charles79 : Wish you good luck...by the way, I bet that you took those pics in Georgia and added the LA freeway signs, right? I'm just kidding, it's just so unre
27 Confuscius : Hope you have fun in LA... Just passing through...going to San Diego.
28 Travelin man : I have to totally concur with this statement. In general the folks that complain about LA traffic are the people that try to take the 405 through the
29 Boston92 : Or when coming from the north, to take Malibu. That would have shaved 3 hours off my trip to LAX that I mentioned at the start.
30 N1120A : Of course it is. Why in the world didn't you use PCH? Also, it shouldn't have taken you 6 hours, even in bad traffic. It is different. Actually, the
31 Charles79 : I have visited Berlin and agree with you. I have used the public transport system in other European cities (Koln, London, Strasbourg) but Berlin was
32 Boston92 : Took 4 hours from Santa Barbara to the 405, and then 2 hours to LAX. It was pretty ridiculous. You are back east a lot, and they have the signs that
33 StuckInCA : I agree (with you and Therock401) that there are a lot of idiot drivers here in Seattle, but... ... I think the same could be said of Seattle. I've b
34 DL777LAX : I forgot about this. What a better place to post this then this thread? "GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA DRIVER'S LICENSE APPLICATION: Name:______________ St
35 57AZ : However, therein lies some of the false arguments that were made to support the substitution of buses. They are item for item more expensive to opera
36 Post contains images Boston92 : The United States (not just Los Angeles) needs to a new source of transportation. High speed, efficiant, and cheap. Not any source of transportation
37 LAXspotter : Bingo, when compared to most European cities, or Tokyo/Seoul, the transportation infrastructure of hte US is in decay. However, there is one thing th
38 Post contains links and images MD90fan : I still think this proposal would be awesome!
39 N1120A : LMAO. Deplorable? Hardly. I think the main reasons for that are 2 fold. First, the city is finally getting to full build out and has to build up. Sec
40 Confuscius : It's almost 2 PM, in about an hour I will be driving down to San Diego from the Bay Area. I still can't decide which freeway to take in LA-- 5, 405 or
41 Post contains images Boston92 : I know it shouldn't have happened, but it did. Like I said, the drive is usually under three hours long. I am not really sure where you are going wit
42 N1120A : Actually, you should be going counter traffic almost the whole way. I would do 5 all the way and then cut over to 101 in Central CA.
43 Post contains images Confuscius : I would do 5 all the way and then cut over to 101 in Central CA. Okay, I'll take your word. I'll know whom to blame if I get caught in traffic. Off I
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