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Greece In A State Of National Emergency..!  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Greece has been subject to more than hundred deliberately lit bush-fires throughout the country.
So far more than 50 people have burned alive -and that toll is rising..
Army,police and even the Greek secret service are manhunting those criminal scum who are responsible for this mass-murder.it is supposed that many of the fires have been lit to destroy precious and rare woodland for real-estate speculation.
Several counties have been sending planes ,helicopters and firemen to assit the Greek fire-brigades and army in their desperate fight.
I hope they catch at least some of those responsible and put them to jail for the rest of their miserable days....

[Edited 2007-08-25 18:59:16]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

It is a great disaster.
I saw on TV that people are very angry that the gvmt is not
doing enough but i am sure they do what they can.
The problem is the weather with strong winds and a very
hot temperature. Up to 40+c is not heping and the wind
is us around 20 knots.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Best of luck to those in the affected areas... may they get whatever help they need!

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
So far more than 50 people have burned alive -and that toll is rising.

I hope most of them were overcome by the smoke before that happened, which would make it a tiny little bit less horrid.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,...B64-SUQ9MjQyNTAmbnI9OQ_3_3,00.html


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3636 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

A truly devastating day for us. My thoughts to all the families that lost their loved ones or are homeless. It is still very windy and the smell of burning wood is everywhere. It was terrible to walk outside today, too much smoke and ash hanging around. Not much will be done about it during the night.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
I hope they catch at least some of those responsible and put them to jail for the rest of their miserable days...

Unfortunately not much can be done about it. Unless the government changes the stupid laws that allow people to build over burned forests, people will still be putting fires just to make more money and sell land.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

This article in "Athens News" from August 16 ,describe in the last four paragraphs the reasoning behind many of the fires..
then former pine-forrests all of a sudden are sold for millions of €/Ha,the temptations are just too big for ruthless speculators.

http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nath...rticle?e=C&f=13248&t=01&m=A02&aa=1

I'm afraid Greek politicians -like in most counties - will hold some very vigorous talks and speeches on TV to show their determination to change things-and then go back to business as usual...
Without backing from some major institutional parties those fires would never have started.
Another issue s the poor infrastructure in many Mediterranean countries when it comes to firefighting.
The cost of maintaining a decent fleet of Berejev's and Canadairs is peanuts compard to the ecological and human dammage caused by those incidents.I can not detect any determined move in neither Greece,Croatia,Portugal,France or Italy to re-enforce those fire-fighting means in place and beef it up considerably.
But when you dig deep enough in the mud of politics you'll come across between very tight liaisons between those in power and those who want the land....



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2239 times:

The fires are now approaching the historic sites of Olympia..
An estimated 180-200 simultaneous fires are being reported.
Approximately half of Greece is currently affected by fire-outbrakes - the worst catastrophy in Greece since 150 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6964345.stm



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3770 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

Swedish newspaper DN is reporting that Greek authorities are saying that natural causes for the fires are out of the question.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
The cost of maintaining a decent fleet of Berejev's and Canadairs is peanuts compard to the ecological and human dammage caused by those incidents.I can not detect any determined move in neither Greece,Croatia,Portugal,France or Italy to re-enforce those fire-fighting means in place and beef it up considerably.

Perhaps a joint fire fighting air unit for the Mediterranean countries is a good idea? It would save money for each of the countries, and there's probably some EU money to collect...



Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Urgent update-
the fire has reached the historic sites of Olympia....



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
Urgent update-
the fire has reached the historic sites of Olympia....

So essentially, the greed of some is destroying the lives of many Greek, the nature of the country and now part of its history. What a shame.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

As long as those responsible for arson get away with some minor fines - like in France- things will not improve.
This is actually mass-murder , considering the large amount of victims.Justice has historically and permanently considered arson as some kind of minor act .Its time things change and put a bar to this devastating and ecologically disastrous habit.Not only are there many human victims but the effects on wildlife and forrests is absolutely horrible....
Thousands have lost their homes,jobs and existances.I'm not too optimistic the way Greek politicians will handle the situation...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

What if they burned them alive?  devil 
Lex Talionis.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
I hope they catch at least some of those responsible and put them to jail for the rest of their miserable days....



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

King Hammurabi of Babylon applied Lex Talionis legislation ( based on equal retaliation..) -I 'm not sure if our legislators are so advanced as the Babylonians...(..probabaly not,considering that for example car theft is considered here in France not even worthwhile for the police to come and see you,they just give you a certificat for the assurance...) -there is more talk on TV about helping the criminals than the victims...


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

In Monaco there is no need that you set up a fire.
You will be jailed or fined (or both) and immediately dismissed from your job for mocking the Prince, the Prime Minister and/or the government in public or through a web site.

http://rue89.com/2007/08/11/a-monaco...rte-de-prosperer-impose-le-silence

http://www.wikio.fr/news/Marc+Giacone

http://www.bakchich.info/article1502.html

http://www.7sur7.be/hlns/cache/det/a...543.html?wt.bron=hlnBottomArtikels

http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/par...50318-lintermittent_du_rocher.html

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
King Hammurabi of Babylon applied Lex Talionis legislation ( based on equal retaliation..) -I 'm not sure if our legislators are so advanced as the Babylonians...(..probabaly not,considering that for example car theft is considered here in France not even worthwhile for the police to come and see you,they just give you a certificat for the assurance...) -there is more talk on TV about helping the criminals than the victims...



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

I suggest for all those Mediterranean countries threatened by fires to reduce the number of useless politicians and invest the money saved in better fire-fighting infrastructure. - I know I'm daydreaming but if you see the misery of all those affected and the anticipated bla-bla-bla of the politicians (theoretically ) in charge -...
You wonder if there is any change compared to those days where Julius Cesar wrote about the uselessness of the Senate in Rome...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
it is supposed that many of the fires have been lit to destroy precious and rare woodland for real-estate speculation.

Well, whenever there is a forest fire (wherever that is) it is always supposed to be for real-estate speculation, bla bla. More often than not it is just (gross?) negligence by the part of rural populations.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
The cost of maintaining a decent fleet of Berejev's and Canadairs is peanuts compard to the ecological and human dammage caused by those incidents

Greece has a HUGE fleet of Canadairs by any measure (last time I counted it was around 25 aircraft) and it still didn't do them any good. If you do not have proper prevention and first strike those are not going to do you any good. For a country like Portugal that argument might be valid but certainly not for Greece.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

Why have people been starting these fires? What's the motivation?

Andrea Kent


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Vheck this picture out...pretty shocking indeed !




regards



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1994 times:

The Greek population is increasingly upset with the way the government is tackling -or better not tackling- the crisis.
No central co-ordination HQ for the various fire-fighting forces,very few if none support on-site,mutual political charges without active actions- typical Southern European government shit..
I thought France was bad - but Greece seems to have a price in inefficiency.
Other than talk no action - to the demise of thousands of home and future -less Greek people.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3636 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 15):

Greece has a HUGE fleet of Canadairs by any measure (last time I counted it was around 25 aircraft) and it still didn't do them any good. If you do not have proper prevention and first strike those are not going to do you any good. For a country like Portugal that argument might be valid but certainly not for Greece.

Yeah but they cannot fly when they are mostly needed, when its windy as hell and the fires get out of control.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 18):
No central co-ordination HQ for the various fire-fighting forces

They have been doing this non stop for the last two months. I do not seem to remember a day during that time when there was no fire burning somewhere around the country. The resources are stretched. Bad thing is that the military did not provide its fire fighting equipment from the beginning.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Quoting Lewis (Reply 19):
They have been doing this non stop for the last two months. I do not seem to remember a day during that time when there was no fire burning somewhere around the country. The resources are stretched.

Don't get me wrong- I most definitely don't blame the Canadair crews who have been stretched to their limits - but a country like Greece with a track-record of extremely hot summers and the resulting fires should have put in place a system more performing than what we see currently..
As mentioned earlier in a previous post,there needs to be some form of co-ordinated European response to this evil.
By the time countries like Germany,Norway,Israel or France send their support-teams,the fires have time to destroy thousands of hectares of land.
This whole situations stinks into political spheres...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineEL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1311 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

This is absolutely terrible. I have been to Greece on April this year, visited many of the sites and cities that now under fire. I Can't even imagine the size of those forest fires, when I saw the satellite photo i was shocked, this photo was in the front page of the second-most popular newspaper in Israel and on the middle page of the most popular one.

Israel sent yesterday 50 fire fighters to help the Greek fire fighters, I hope they can Help. The Israeli fire fighters has experience with those kinds of fires: in Israel there are forest fires almost every summer and every fall, some of those fires were men-made. During the war in Lebanon last summer the Katusha missiles caused large scale fires in Northern Israel, and the Israeli Fire fighters handled those fires very well.

All I hope is that the fire will be under control as soon as possible, and there will be no more lost of life and to stop the economical and ecological damage.



"In our country, those who do not believe in miracles are irrational" - David Ben Gurion.
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
This article in "Athens News" from August 16 ,describe in the last four paragraphs the reasoning behind many of the fires..

Not exactly: one Mayor says what everyone seems to believe in Greece.
However, if I am not mistaken, legislation was passed whereby burned (forrested) land had automatically to be reforrested (at least in theory) and could not loose its status of "green land", keeping it thereby out of real estate speculators' reach.

It is true that Greece, and in particular (and non-incidentally) the vicinity of Athens has suffered from man-made fires for the better of 30 years.
No government has ever paid lots of attention to the firefighting department. Having been involved at some stage I will refrain from making public a few unbelievable facts (by XXIst century European standards) !
Shame is not lethal in those places...

I do believe that most Greek fires are accidental, be it from a piece of broken glass on a bed of dry leaves, a cigarette butt thrown by a passing driver, a farmer burning some old wood, etc...


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 16):
Why have people been starting these fires? What's the motivation?





Did you even bother to read the postings before yours? If you had you would have your answer.  

[Edited 2007-08-28 18:35:57]

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 22):
I do believe that most Greek fires are accidental, be it from a piece of broken glass on a bed of dry leaves,

With all due respect for the theoretical probability that some fires have had accidental cause,the sheer frequency,speed,geographical concentration and synchronisation of outbreaks (more than 180 fires..) - there are many arson crimes being committed ...
Neglect in putting up a decisive fire-strategy has cost Greece now hundreds of millions in damage and ruined the lives of many farmers,breeders and destroyed the homes of thousands.One cannot just argue "..we've always burned down scrub-land"...History would be a bad argument to justify what has happened.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
25 KSYR : I have been following this story closely; what an enormous tragedy. Best wishes to our Greek friends in getting this crisis under control and I sincer
26 Iakobos : Sorry but no. Arson is (also) a convenient excuse to blind the structural deficiencies and total lack of responsibility of the successive Greek gover
27 Lewis : I cannot comment on the Peloponnese fires but ALL fires in Attica were caused by arsonists. The fire two blocks from my house was caused by a pile of
28 Iakobos : So, was it deliberate arson or gross irresponsibility ? (including the neighbours who were aware) Gas cans, big and small (and you know how popular t
29 Lewis : Wrong. Check fires in northern Greece and the area of Olympos. Apart from few villages, there is just forest with no road access. Was there two weeks
30 MD11Engineer : About ten years ago I talked to a firefighter from Vigo in the Spanish province of Galicia. There they also have a serious problem with wildfires in t
31 Superfly : Were any of the forested hillsides in Athens affected? I went on a nice walk through there last year with a friend I met at the hotel I was staying at
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