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Is Ralf Schumacher A Waste Of Money?  
User currently offlineTango29 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 312 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

Hey sports fans

I've been a fan of F1 for about 12 years now and i can't help feeling that ralf has been riding the
F1 train for the past few years just for the money and not the passion of racing. When he came
into F1 with Jordan and then with Williams i really thought he was maybe a future champion and
someone who could challenge his big brother, but since he joined Toyota (for $75m) he's been
outqualified and outpaced by Trulli on a regular basis and on top of that he's turned into a moody
bitch thats a pain in the arse to handle, i ask is it time his big brother bitchslapped him and told
him to get a grip or should Toyota show him the door a hire a young talented driver for the future
like Adrian Sutil or Tonio Liuzzi??


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42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

WIthout his brother he would never ever have made it it into F1 anyhow...


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineTango29 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
WIthout his brother he would never ever have made it it into F1 anyhow...

Very true, he's got worse since micheal retired.



Flown: A300,310,319,320,321,332,333,346,380, B720, 727,732,733,734,735,738,741,744,752,753,763,772,773
User currently offlineBA757 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2832 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
WIthout his brother he would never ever have made it it into F1 anyhow...

 checkmark 


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting Tango29 (Thread starter):
Is Ralf Schumacher A Waste Of Money?

Yes. He isn't even remotely as gifted as Michael is. Besides, I can remember a few incidents when Ralf even interfered with Michael's driving, costing his brother a race.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
WIthout his brother he would never ever have made it it into F1 anyhow...

Quoted for truth. Ralf is a waste of money, and thankfully it appears Toyota won't renew his contract. There is better talent out there, like Vettel or Sutil.
And for comparisons, look at Heidfeld. He only makes a fraction of what Ralf makes, yet he ends up in the points on most of his races, mostly around position 4-5. Granted, his car is more reliable than the TOYota Ralf drives, but just look at the multiple in-race battles Heidfeld has had with Alonso - he definitely knows how to compete on the track, unlike Ralf.
Oh well, once Ralf is out, at least he'll have more time to play with the silicone udders on the brainless piece of plastic he calls a wife.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Ralf was a very good talented driver.

But he had to measure up to a yardstick of his brother's record - and only a half-dozen F-1 drivers are in that group.

Without his brother to compare against - Ralf had a successful F-1 career.

But now he is definitely on the downhill side of his racing life. He gets the big money because the family name brings money and attention to his team. He may not be the best racer, but he's the best income producer for the team.

You can't blame a man to taking advantage of opportunity.

You can blame the team management for hiring him.


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 6):
Without his brother to compare against - Ralf had a successful F-1 career.

That's true, any driver who claims multiple GP wins had a successful F1 career. But Ralf is definitely underperforming, as IMO he could do better than that. The Toyota team must carry the blame as well, for after spending copious amounts of $$$ in F1 they still don't know how to put together a half-decent car.

As for next year, I highly doubt that he'll continue in F1 without a pay cut.

Charles


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 7):
As for next year, I highly doubt that he'll continue in F1 without a pay cut.

Not to mention that after this season, Ralf could be sacked as well. I hope Ralf gets sacked, he isn't any good to F1 anyway, regardless of whether Michael is his brother or not.


User currently offlineCupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 6):
You can't blame a man to taking advantage of opportunity.

You can blame the team management for hiring him.

Totally agree. It isn't his fault. However that doesn't change the fact that he is a waste of money.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 7):
F1 they still don't know how to put together a half-decent car.

Moving out of Cologne and into the UK should be the first order of business.



Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1522 times:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070830102620.shtml

Toyota are looking at canning ralf at 19 million and hiring someone who'll take 2 million. But no doubt Toyota will find something to waste 17 million on and still wonder why they can't win with a $400 million budget.

No wait, I've found it.

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070830101955.shtml


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1508 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
WIthout his brother he would never ever have made it it into F1 anyhow...

Actually that's not strictly true. He did win the Japanese F3000 championship when it still actually meant something and when many of the drivers went into F1 from it. Probably better to say that Willi Weber his manager (and Michael's) had more influence in him being in F1 than his brother.

He certainly did enough in lower Formulae to justify getting to F1.


Having said that however, he has long overstayed his welcome. There were times at Williams where he looked the real deal, yet on other occasions he looked anonymous. While Trulli is a good driver, he's not top rank and more often than not he is leaving Ralf well behind.

Unsurprisingly Toyota were looking to replace him earlier in the season, but it wasn't possible for them to get who they wanted. Also Ralf's performances briefly picked up too.....

Much more sensibly Toyota are chasing Nico Rosberg hard for next season - just the type of young hungry driver they need. Sadly for them it seems Nico is more interested in what he drives more than what he is being paid as he apparently doesn't want to go to them - but as Toyota provides Williams with their engines, he may have no choice....


But frankly Ralf is just one of a number of drivers who should be moving out of F1 having been around a long time and no longer add very much, but still take home sizeable salaries. Along with Ralf, there's Fisichella, Trulli, Webber, Coulthard for starters. I'll keep Rubens out of it as his car is rubbish.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Besides, I can remember a few incidents when Ralf even interfered with Michael's driving, costing his brother a race.

Reminds me of the old joke (works better in German):

F: Was ist der Unterschied zwischen Siegfried & Roy und den Schumacher Brüdern?
A: Der Gesichtsausdruck, wenn der eine dem anderen hinten reinfährt.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 12):
Reminds me of the old joke (works better in German):

F: Was ist der Unterschied zwischen Siegfried & Roy und den Schumacher Brüdern?
A: Der Gesichtsausdruck, wenn der eine dem anderen hinten reinfährt.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 


User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

He sure does not have the same quality as his brother, but a waste of money? No!

Reason for this is that he might actually bring loads of money from his sponsors, and THAT is what this sport is all about. Mucho dineros!

Personally I think he had his chance in F1, and should be replaced.


Aim for the sky!
Sudden



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17063 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

Quoting Sudden (Reply 14):
and THAT is what this sport is all about. Mucho dineros!

Maybe not for everybody.

Quoting Sudden (Reply 14):
Personally I think he had his chance in F1, and should be replaced.

 checkmark 



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

F-1 is like any other top level sport.

There are a very, very few incredible talents who dominant.

There is a large middle who are in the right place, but will never be more than average in a field where average is so far above the common man it should be worshipped.

There are a few who barely got in the door but relish that they made the big show.

And unfortunately, the dream of breaking out of the middle group into the top group blinds people to the fact that they's slipped from group two to group three.

Be it F-1, NASCAR, Indy cars or baseball -

"Do you realize how good you have to be to be the worst player in the major league?"


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9281 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

Quoting Tango29 (Thread starter):
Is Ralf Schumacher A Waste Of Money?

Well, you should see his wife !  Cool

signed : Stefan Raab

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 12):
Reminds me of the old joke (works better in German

Good one. Almost as good as the differnence between Jesus and Casanova.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineTango29 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
Oh well, once Ralf is out, at least he'll have more time to play with the silicone udders on the brainless piece of plastic he calls a wife.


You describe her so well, nice one!



Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
Probably better to say that Willi Weber his manager (and Michael's) had more influence in him being in F1 than his brother.

Very true, the man has a lot of influence.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
I'll keep Rubens out of it as his car is rubbish.

I feel really sorry for Rubens, in my opinion he is one of the nice guys of F1 and deserves a better car as the
guy has a lot of talent and experience but not much luck on his side.



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User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17063 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Quoting Tango29 (Reply 18):
feel really sorry for Rubens, in my opinion he is one of the nice guys of F1 and deserves a better car as the
guy has a lot of talent and experience but not much luck on his side.

Just remember when he drove for Ferrari.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineTango29 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
Just remember when he drove for Ferrari.

Yeah he had a lot of good times and some bad i.e Austria (he handled that well)

I would like to see him win his hope GP before he retires but can't really see that happening.



Flown: A300,310,319,320,321,332,333,346,380, B720, 727,732,733,734,735,738,741,744,752,753,763,772,773
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
Much more sensibly Toyota are chasing Nico Rosberg hard for next season - just the type of young hungry driver they need. Sadly for them it seems Nico is more interested in what he drives more than what he is being paid as he apparently doesn't want to go to them

Not to mention that Frank Williams seems to be very pleased with Nico. The problem with Nico is probably the car and the pressure (he is after all the son of Finnish F1 legend Keke Rosberg). Maybe the pressure could give Nico a harder time in the future, just like what happened with Damon Hill in the past, but that's a different issue. The problem with Ralf was never the car or even the pressure of being Michael's kid brother, it was his over aggressive driving and probably a bit arrogance (unlike his brother, Ralf was sort of like Jacques Villeneuve and Juan Pablo Montoya, an asshole). In the end, despite winning titles in lower formulae, he was never really gifted enough to truely compete against the likes of Mika Häkkinnen and Michael Schumacher.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 12):
F: Was ist der Unterschied zwischen Siegfried & Roy und den Schumacher Brüdern?
A: Der Gesichtsausdruck, wenn der eine dem anderen hinten reinfährt.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Dude, that was simply priceless!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1354 times:

Quoting Tango29 (Reply 18):
I feel really sorry for Rubens, in my opinion he is one of the nice guys of F1

I could not agree more, but on the other hand I don't really understand why he signed for Honda. Maybe that was his only choice.
By now, in my mind, he will not get any offer from asny of the top teams anymore. He is stuck in the mid field, just as D.C.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineTango29 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1314 times:

Quoting Sudden (Reply 22):
By now, in my mind, he will not get any offer from asny of the top teams anymore. He is stuck in the mid field, just as D.C.

Very true, but i have to take my hat off to rubens and DC they are both very experienced talented
drivers that are in the twilight of there careers and they are still giving it 100% every week, i know
rubens has a shitbox of a car but he still gets on with it, and DC is driving his heart out and getting
a few points for Red Bull so maybe Ralf should take a look at his elders.



Flown: A300,310,319,320,321,332,333,346,380, B720, 727,732,733,734,735,738,741,744,752,753,763,772,773
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

I would say no..... is he over payed? yes

Is Ralf Michael? no

Agree, looking just at Ralfs F1 performance and forget his brother...... he did better than 99.9% of us would do.

Toyota & Honda have the same problem, it seams they can not get the cars going like Ferrari, McLaren, BMW......
the shop location has nothing to do with it as you can see BMW-Sauber is closing in...... but why is their performance so low, considering the "endless" flow of $$$$$ and engineer resources they have...........

Cheers,


25 Bill142 : It's their management structures. Tokyo needs leave them alone and do what they do best and go racing. Perhaps employing some people who know a thing
26 Swissy : Agree that is for sure one of the main reason, also what I have been told is the turn over of very qualified engineers has been high, I guess due to
27 Tango29 : Another poor showing for Ralf again today finished 15th and a lap down surely Toyota must be getting fed up with these results every grand prix.
28 LHStarAlliance : I think he´s just there because of his brother
29 Tango29 : Not for much longer, i can think of better drivers that deserve his seat, Sutil,liuzzi and davidson could do a better job.
30 DHHornet : Is Ralf Schumacher A Waste Of Money? Yes! Runs hot and cold. Good one day crap the next. Send him Nascar racing!
31 LTU932 : I highly doubt NASCRAP may want a loser like Ralf Schumacher. Getting Montoya to join them was already pushing the boundaries a bit.
32 MD11Engineer : I have heard exactly the opposite from somebody who knows both brothers quite well (a former colleague in CGN, who went to car mechanics school Kerpe
33 CupraIbiza : cmon lets not beat around the bush. His lack of talent has a fair bit to do with it as well.
34 LTU932 : Or the killer instinct is there, but not properly used.
35 CupraIbiza : Or he is just no good. I have heard the lastest excuse made for him is the switch to Bridgestone. Puh-lease - spare me!
36 LTU932 : And to Ralf: So what? Michael never bitched about the switch to Bridgestone when Goodyear left F1.
37 Bill142 : And let's not forget that Toyota switched to Bridgestone last season. So he's had more time the most to adjust.
38 Legoguy : Here are some stats from Ralf's career in F1; Races 178 (176 starts) Championships 0 Wins 6 Podium finishes 27 Pole positions 6 Career points 329 Fast
39 CupraIbiza : Statistics like anything can tell any story. If you look at the quality of teams he has been in then you cannot argue that 6 victories is a decent re
40 LTU932 : I didn't notice that. Anyway, Ralf bitching about the tyres is so last year...
41 Legoguy : Sort of yes, sort of, no. While he is not worth the money he is currently being paid (I do not know the exact amount however have read it is quite hi
42 Tango29 : $75m over 3 years, great investment by Toyota.
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