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President Bush Goes Cowboy Again Over Iraq  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Can't our President just talk lke someone intelligent, and not a cowboy? He's already in deep shit over Iraq, then he talks like this?

Another embarrassment.

226 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Can't our President just talk lke someone intelligent, and not a cowboy? He's already in deep shit over Iraq, then he talks like this?

Another embarrassment.

As much as I agree, I really dont see the point of this thread other than to bash bush, similar to some posts where the neo-cons here bash the Democractic Candidates. I dont think he can change the way he talks, he just isnt a good speaker with a vocabulary that is rivaled by a 13-year old valley girl.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

But Falcon... we ARE kicking ass in Iraq!!

And the President said this while talking to the deputy prime minister. It's not like he said this to a group of press (like the "Bring it on" comment).

You're really going to give the guy grief for having a conversation with someone, that happened to be overheard by a reporter? At least the comment was positive. I'd rather have a million "We're kicking ass" comments, instead of one "Iraq is a failure comment."

Which does more damage, Falcon? President Bush's comment, or the Democrats bitching about how Iraq is a failure?

-UH60


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3652 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
But Falcon... we ARE kicking ass in Iraq!!

Yeah, we're surely bringing stability to the region, this is an unending conflict and the Americans do no benefit by staying there. The so called "terrorists" werent there when we attacked, and then all of a sudden they came in from all corners of the world trying to engage the Americans. This so called "surge" is a temporary thing, you might be able to kill thousands of insurgents, but they just keep on coming, and this movement of global islamic terrorism cannot be stopped by killing a few thousand of them.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3652 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Can't our President just talk lke someone intelligent, and not a cowboy? He's already in deep shit over Iraq, then he talks like this?

Another embarrassment.

Oh give me a freaking a break, Falcon.

There's simply no way you're dull enough to actually think this is of any real consequence.........you're simply grasping every single damn opportunity you can to bash Bush.

It's that simple, and it's ridiculous.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 1):
As much as I agree, I really dont see the point of this thread other than to bash bush



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Which does more damage, Falcon? President Bush's comment, or the Democrats bitching about how Iraq is a failure?

 checkmark 




-NWA742


User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2237 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Can't our President just talk lke someone intelligent, and not a cowboy? He's already in deep shit over Iraq, then he talks like this?

Qualifying to fly fighter jets, being elected twice as president, governor of Texas, somewhat successful oil-man, are you embarrassed a cowboy acheived more than you will in your life ? The way you attack anything conservative but defend embarrassments such as clinton, your partisanship is showing again.  Yeah sure



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6593 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3642 times:
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Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Which does more damage, Falcon? President Bush's comment, or the Democrats bitching about how Iraq is a failure?

Isnt the first step to overcoming alcoholism is admitting you have a problem?

Trust me on this one - this is a political move to justify troop reductions.

[Edited 2007-09-07 06:27:59]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
You're really going to give the guy grief for having a conversation with someone, that happened to be overheard by a reporter?

A diplomat should always refrain from talking like a yokel when reporters are around.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Which does more damage, Falcon? President Bush's comment, or the Democrats bitching about how Iraq is a failure?

Neither make any difference whatsoever.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
I'd rather have a million "We're kicking ass" comments, instead of one "Iraq is a failure comment."

You'd rather be served a hollow compliment a million times than hear the truth once?


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 7):
You'd rather be served a hollow compliment a million times than hear the truth once?

Oh shit dude, that is the best I've ever heard, welcome to my RU. As much as I dont care what Bush says now, the way he says things, its really annoying when we are fed this BS that we're actually making progress.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3863 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

we ARE kicking ass in Iraq!!

Now we know who are doing all the fighting over there. And it ain't the...



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3616 times:
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What is the point of this thread? We know you hate Bush.

Nice source.

 Yeah sure


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 6):

Trust me on this one - this is a political move to justify troop reductions.

No... the reductions are needed on a very simple fact: We don't have the troop strength to maintain the current level. Of the Army's 38 brigades, all of them are either deployed, getting ready to deploy, or returning from a deployment.

The only way we can keep the level up is increase the deployment cycles beyond 15 months. Speed up the deployments of National Guard units... many of whom were promised that they would have 5 years off. Get troops from other countries to assist. Or institute a draft.

None of which are very likely.

Quoting Toast (Reply 7):
Neither make any difference whatsoever.

 redflag 

Bull.

If you don't think the leaders of both the House and the Senate saying that Iraq is lost, doesn't hurt the effort, then you're high.

Been there - and I assure you that they pay just as close to the news as we do. They hear those words and it effects their opinion, just as it does ours.

Even from an operational point of view, if you were fighting an enemy, and you heard that high ranking leaders in your enemy's government were publicly calling the fight with you a failure... would you not be emboldened by that?

Quoting Toast (Reply 7):

You'd rather be served a hollow compliment a million times than hear the truth once?

 redflag  Bullsh*t. Again.

Read my thread that I quoted above.

When I say that we're kicking ass, I'm not joking. We're kicking ass, taking names and smashing them hard. Good times.

-UH60


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Now who am I going to take notice of here...Toast, MT99, LAXSpotter, with their armchair politics, or UH60, who's been there and fought the fight and sees what the media doesn't report and what most everyone else on a.net hasn't see?

Gee, thats a tought decision  sarcastic 

Thanks for the voice of truth, UH60.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 9):

Now we know who are doing all the fighting over there. And it ain't the...



The wrong answers just keep rolling in.

I went to Iraq this last time to specifically work with the Iraqi forces.

I was impressed with the level of improvements made on the streets, since I was last there this past spring. And I was also impressed with the Iraqis I worked with.

Not only did they actually understand what they were suppose to do, they were effectively putting the lessons and training we taught them... and using them correctly on the battlefield.

Look, where is the biggest failure? The national government. Why any of us thought we could successfully achieve our goals on all fronts, at the same time, is beyond me. General Petreaus's methodical approach to this situation has definitely allowed us to get a better grip on the situation. THAT is a fact.

-UH60

[Edited 2007-09-07 06:51:52]

User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):
if you were fighting an enemy, and you heard that high ranking leaders in your enemy's government were publicly calling the fight with you a failure... would you not be emboldened by that?

If I was honest enough to admit I was fighting the wrong people in the wrong country under a bullshit pretext, no amount of cheerleading from my superiors or feigned defeatism from the "enemy" would make me able to look at myself in a mirror.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):
We're kicking ass, taking names and smashing them hard. Good times.

Good times indeed. Yee-haw.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):
Get troops from other countries to assist. Or institute a draft.

Good luck.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Can't our President just talk lke someone intelligent, and not a cowboy? He's already in deep shit over Iraq, then he talks like this?

Falcon your rhetoric is about a stale as the snizz between Hillarys legs. It's the same crap with you over and over again. I am glad we are kicking ass in Iraq, it's much better than getting our ass kicked. Wouldn't you agree? And I am glad that Bush has his moments where he seems like a normal guy. His remark wasn't cowboy like at all. If he rode a Tomahawk missile with a cowboy hat in one hand yelling 'yippie kay yay yeah mother fuc@#rs" then I could see him being compared to a cowboy. You're drawing for straws, and it's a poor attempt.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6593 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
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Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 11):
No... the reductions are needed on a very simple fact: We don't have the troop strength to maintain the current level. Of the Army's 38 brigades, all of them are either deployed, getting ready to deploy, or returning from a deployment.

Oh i agree with you completly. But just wait and see how it gets spinned in a way to appeal to the 70%+ of the population who favors troop withdrawal Just in time for the 2008 election campaign

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
Now who am I going to take notice of here...Toast, MT99,

I feel honored that i got noticed  Smile



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
Now who am I going to take notice of here...Toast, MT99, LAXSpotter, with their armchair politics, or UH60, who's been there and fought the fight and sees what the media doesn't report and what most everyone else on a.net hasn't see?

Gee, thats a tought decision

Exactly.

Falcon knows without a doubt I respect his opinion, and him . . . but this is a simple plain straightforward 'let's bash PotUS' thread.

Sorry, waste of a thread . . .


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 14):
If I was honest enough to admit I was fighting the wrong people in the wrong country under a bullshit pretext, no amount of cheerleading from my superiors or feigned defeatism from the "enemy" would make me able to look at myself in a mirror.

But there you go... I don't need "cheerleading from my superiors" to let me know that we're kicking ass. I saw it first hand. I participated it in, first hand.

Look, I am not saying that we are going to win the war. I've had my hopes dashed far too many times, to know that we're a long way from that.

...But when I say that the summer surge is having impressive results, and that the surge is improving security, I say it with certainly. I saw it and I was amazed at what we were able to do in just one summer. It's amazing how cleaning house (Gen P brought over his own "wiz-team" when he took command), how increasing troop levels (which those of us who've been to Iraq have been saying we needed, for a very long time) and a tough and aggressive strategy, can do.

It's a totally different ball game, then back in early 2006, when I arrived in Iraq.

I don't know if we'll win. I don't know if the Iraqi government will get their shit together and actually govern. But I DO KNOW that we're kicking ass, and the surge is producing good results.

-UH60


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
or UH60, who's been there and fought the fight and sees what the media doesn't report

ever come across that maybe some people have relatives in the Middle east? I guess not, ever come across that some people have agendas and need self-supporting words of consolement to ignore what this war has led to, its a failed effort and 3,500 and counting soldiers have died for no reason. Our objective was to take out Saddam and his sons, now its become a prolonged conflict where we just sit and wait until what the Iraqis take control of their country, like that is ever going to happen...



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
But I DO KNOW that we're kicking ass, and the surge is producing good results.

What exactly is good results? killing more insurgents, less American deaths per month, the poltical situation is shitty as you pointed out, and I dont think its gonna get better, and you noted that its too far-fetched to think we're gonna win the war, so why fight on and see your comrades die in a lost cause?



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 5):
Qualifying to fly fighter jets, being elected twice as president, governor of Texas, somewhat successful oil-man, are you embarrassed a cowboy acheived more than you will in your life ? The way you attack anything conservative but defend embarrassments such as clinton, your partisanship is showing again. Yeah sure

You my friend have gained my respect. 1 +



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
But Falcon... we ARE kicking ass in Iraq!!

I wouldn't go that far. We're certainly doing better than we have been, but Iraq needs to make some more consistent progress across the board before I'd say that we're kicking ass. If we continue at this rate, we'll get to ass-kicking soon enough, but we're not there yet, at least on the national scale.

I do agree, however, that while it would probably have been better for Bush to use some more decorum, in the big scheme of things it's virtually insignificant.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
I don't know if we'll win. I don't know if the Iraqi government will get their shit together and actually govern. But I DO KNOW that we're kicking ass, and the surge is producing good results.

How would you define "winning" in Iraq?

I wish you all the best over there, I've talked to a lot of people involved in Iraq and I realize what a nightmare it is to be stationed there. I still remain profoundly skeptical as for the outcome of this adventure.


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

well APEC is now OPEC or the Iraq summit and the Australian forces are now Austrian, all this and he hasn't even been here 3 days.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22378059-5013109,00.html



never mind that the man he made the 'kicking ass' comment to found his speech, well, tiring to say the least.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
25 UH60FtRucker : Good results? When it comes to security, every measurable indicator showed a reduction. -Less IEDs. -Less VBIEDs. -Less motar attacks -Less probing g
26 Post contains images Springbok747 : Damn..nice pic! We should have a "guess whats shes thinking" thread OPEC..er...APEC only officially begins tomorrow (Saturday) right?
27 Flanker : Democrats .. whoops i ment to say Socialists have invested in Americas defeat for their own personal gain. They care not for this country or for you
28 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : The key question. I have no doubts as to how much "ass" is being "kicked" in Iraq, but I'm unconvinced that life for regular Iraqis is getting signif
29 Post contains images QANTAS077 : interesting how you measure success, less bombings but more civilian deaths in August than at any other time...wouldn't be that the bombs are getting
30 Toast : That is one of the reasons I think that Iraq as a country is over. I work a lot with refugees and there is a significant surge in the number of Iraqi
31 LAXspotter : Exactly, I have a feeling what we're doing is at the interests of us, and we dont really give a damn about how the average Iraqi will be doing, so bo
32 LAXspotter : Welcome to my RU, thankyou for pointing out the obvious, I knew I saw that headline earlier, thanks for pointing it out.
33 Post contains images Toast : Since when are internet forums meant to be productive? We all know we're here just to let off some steam
34 Post contains images Skywatch : And what gave you that opinion? The media or firsthand experience in the matter? I marvel at people who think they know more than the leaders who are
35 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : Exactly. The Iraqi "Brain Drain" is going to have the exact same effects on reconstruction efforts in the wake of this fiasco that de-Baathification
36 Post contains links QANTAS077 : the civilian population seems to be the one that's forgotten about...its all well and good to say that there are less bombings in one month, but what
37 Gunsontheroof : There's no doubt that the leaders "calling the shots" know more than we do. That doesn't mean they're telling you the truth. I don't feel like I shou
38 LAXspotter : well said, but as you mentioned most people dont really care about the poor citizens of Iraq who just want to be left alone. When the USA leaves Iraq
39 Flanker : Silly statement. No society is free of fear and or "crazy violence" .
40 QANTAS077 : need look no further than the country that bought more fear and crazy violence to the Iraqi people in 2003.
41 Toast : I'm sorry to hear you've never had the occasion to see or live in such a society. I live in one of those, I can assure you peace and security are tak
42 UH60FtRucker : Well considering that we... including myself... have consistently put our lives in danger to protect the lives of threatened Iraqi civilians, then ye
43 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : No, Iraq has apparently suffered enough of it to become the second "most failed state" in the world. They deserve better. http://today.reuters.com/ne
44 ANCFlyer : Hiya Monte . . . .haven't seen you for a bit my friend. . . So, to topic . . . How well did the same civilian population fare under Saddam? Yeah, yea
45 Post contains images Skywatch : Which is precisely why I have accepted the fact that I just won't ever know for sure, and neither will anyone else, including Sadaam, Bush, and every
46 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : According to a poll at the beginning of the year, 90% of Iraqis said "better." http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/14282 And I've heard/read others
47 Toast : Just out of curiosity, have any been found since the US invaded? However I count, there seems no way Saddam could have killed nearly as many people a
48 Post contains images Skywatch : Key word..."journalist".....never trust 'em! Most journalism is either far left or far right. Take your pick or don't believe a word of it...that's u
49 ANCFlyer : Apparently, my friend, you need to so dome research too . . . . I won't spare you the agony of doing it yourself . . . but the answer is yes . . . ma
50 Skywatch : Hmmmmm.....do insurgents count in that toll? If so, you might be right. Otherwise, I doubt it.
51 Flanker : Re-count. O wait you cant. Thats like trying to find how many people stalin has slaughtered. Please get your head out of your ass. Here let me make i
52 Gunsontheroof : None that I've heard of. For that matter, we shouldn't overlook that the United States initially blamed Iran for the Halabja gas attack despite an SI
53 Flanker : Yes there have been mass graves that were uncovered. Probably happens all the time, but the drive by media only seems to be interested in American de
54 Post contains images QANTAS077 : remind me again why the insurgency rose up? wouldn't happen to have anything to do with a man named Paul Bremmer and his sacking of an entire workfor
55 Post contains images Toast : It is indeed. Sure I wouldn't voluntarily live under any of those regimes, but theocracy is truly shit up with which I will not put. I lived for 3 ye
56 Toast : That's a well-known fact. At least as many more will bite the dust before Dubya gets around to paying a "surprise visit" to his troops this Christmas
57 Gunsontheroof : Yes. The "Democratic Agenda." Don't kid yourself, any mass graves found would be all over the news (you really think that FOX would overlook such a s
58 Post contains images LAXspotter : what a mistake, thanks Paul Thankyou, I'm tired of this I'm in the military so respect my authority and sacrifice. Its great that youre serving, but
59 LAXspotter : Similar to weapons of mass destruction cachets, theyre somewhere, we just dont know where they are...., funny because we knew where they were until t
60 Gunsontheroof : Terrible? Yes. Of concern to the U.S. at the time? No. Your outrage is what I'd expect from any human being, just don't pretend that your government
61 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Haven't we heard this before???
62 QANTAS077 : I was watching an interview with Dr Rice the other night and she kept on going on about the US and its friends spreading democracy, I just felt like
63 LAXspotter : not to mention, that Egypt is #2 on the US aid list, ahhh hypocrisy exposed, just love it. Two of US's greatest allies in the middle east are the ant
64 Gunsontheroof : To be fair, your suggestion is a bit off. Everything I've read suggests that Sahhaf ("Baghdad Bob?") actually believed that Saddam's soldiers had dec
65 Post contains images Toast : When applied to Saudi Arabia, that's the most outrageous euphemism ever! To be fair, France has been doing the same in Africa for decades... Doesn't
66 L410Turbolet : Everything I've read suggests that UH60 actually believes the Iraqi mess is a stellar success and Saddam's tyranny replaced by anarchy resulting from
67 LAXspotter : its doesnt matter if its good times from soldiers, since youre doing this for the civilians, theyre the ones to decide whether it is indeed the good
68 Post contains links CALTECH : http://counterterror.typepad.com/the..._blog/2005/08/belgium_shows_n.html http://www.cpa-iraq.org/pressreleases/20040224_mass_graves.html Estimated 4
69 Sebolino : AH ... I'm learning English every day. To kick ass means to be in a dark shit, to increase terrorism, to break human rights, to lose control, to wast
70 JetJock22 : - Well then I guess we can't consider the United States a success either based on that statement. What about what your own country did in 1938 in Chi
71 CALTECH : Please, do not make a bunch of us break out the french jokes. How is France doing after all the car fires and riots? Maybe Sarkozy can change that fi
72 Toast : OK, let's say we take both figures at face value. Saddam may have killed some 400,000 people, an appalling number. That took him 35 years of relentle
73 Toast : Please. We're talking here and now, not 1938. At least Japan didn't claim it was liberating China and bringing it democracy. You might as well bash T
74 Pope : Here we go again. Weren't you the one calling him the "village idiot" about 3 years ago? I guess this village idiot beat your preferred "brain child"
75 JetJock22 : What difference does it make? Time has no relevance in the scope of history. Are you saying that because it was 60+ years ago that Hitlers invasion o
76 Toast : The difference is that you can't change history. People are dying like flies in Iraq as we speak. The American people has the power to stop it now. I
77 CALTECH : Well, you said; You said; You said, which is my bad, I assumed you smoked weed from your defense of it. Sorry for that. Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 154
78 JetJock22 : You are correct, you can't change history, but you can learn from it. What have we learned from the past if we let radical leaders like Saddam Hussei
79 Post contains links and images RJdxer : When the French "kick ass" again militarily, im me immediately please. I guess I was just tired in the IL62 at the Kiev meet. And at the BHM meet din
80 Post contains links and images Toast : Yeah, I didn't know about the mass graves. They for some reason don't make the headlines too often. Maybe because the figures of that report have bee
81 Post contains images Toast : Nothing, unfortunately. That's why wars are still fought under the lofty pretenses of bringing peace or pleasing God, but only in places where a buck
82 Post contains images YOWza : So in the expert opinion of the pro-war crowd are we due for this again? [Edited 2007-09-07 15:43:37]
83 RJdxer : That's right. Once they are fairly tried, convicted, and sentenced.
84 Post contains images Toast : That's a whole other thread, meriting its own flamefest.
85 Post contains images CALTECH : What ? Major combat operations were completed by the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln and all the other U.S. combat forces. The mission assigned to the Lincoln
86 Blackbird1331 : Too many people dying to be calling it ass kicking.
87 Post contains links and images Baroque : For a detailed and fairly current appraisal see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6982364.stm Note particularly fuel cost, fuel availability and
88 CALTECH : Not to disparage all the brave British and Commonwealth troops who gave their lives in WWII, but did he turn in his grave before or after the Sherman
89 Pope : Absolutely not. But why is it that the "anti-war" crowd can't admit that any amount of progress is being made? Hyperbole from the right doesn't justi
90 HuskyAviation : He misspoke. Jesus H. Christ, get over it. You don't see Americans up in arms that Australian security fell asleep at the wheel and let a bunch of co
91 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : I don't know how many, but in one instance, we rolled into a town west of Baqubah, where the insurgents had killed a large number of civilians... bec
92 YOWza : Agreed. I have been against this war from day one. As it turns out the simplistic views and expectations turned out to be wrong. But that's neither h
93 RJdxer : Please, I've heard Australians talk and on some words had to think hard to figure out just exactly what it was they said. I live here in Texas and th
94 Seb146 : I don't believe I am in another political thread. I don't want to do this.... I am glad UH60 is seeing improvement. What I am about to say in no way l
95 Pope : In contrast, I was for the war from day 1 and am still in favor of the overthrow of Saddam. That being said, I completely admit that the strategy of
96 UH60FtRucker : Seb, I have never thought you were anti-troops. You've always been respectful and there is nothing wrong with you being against the war. Like I said
97 RJdxer : Gotta keep that propaganda machine wound up Pope. Wouldn't want anyone to get an absurd notion like, Iraq is starting to turn around in their head no
98 LAXspotter : as much as I believe youre sincere, August being the most bloody month for Iraqi civilians kind of negates your statements, but nevertheless I see wh
99 Queso : I have been purposely avoiding threads you start Falcon, but I just decided to check this one out and as I was reading your opening post I just realiz
100 Post contains links QANTAS077 : actually, I don't have a low opinion of US soldiers at all...I have a low opinion of war because it solves nothing and is good for precious little ot
101 Post contains images DC10extender :
102 Post contains links HuskyAviation : Speaking of embarrassments, South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun engaged in a shabby display of diplomacy today with Bush: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POL
103 LAXspotter : The voice of reason, thankyou Qantas077, thankyou very much.
104 Falcon84 : I don't hate the president at all, Queso. I'm not cyber-sucking him like you do all the time, but I certainly don't hate him. I do not think he's a v
105 LAXspotter : Thankyou so much Falcon, this goes along the same insults as "if youre not supporting the war, than youre with the enemy" BS. This is really stooping
106 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : My Personal Favorite: You want to actually go study history then rethink that statement? Or do you need me to provide some rather obvious examples to
107 Baroque : And you point was? Shermans only at second and third El Alamein not the first by the way. If the Auk had not won Al Al one, the other two would hardl
108 Baroque : If that is what you and he meant, it is good news. We, and this might well include Qantas077 can be supportive of that, whereas the crude potential m
109 Post contains images QANTAS077 : so if we've actually learnt from war then why is it that governments persist on going to war? hahahaha...say no more! its not to hard to be a voice o
110 CALTECH : You stated in reply to; ((Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 75): Or perhaps you should think about that fact that a LIBERATING army of the UNITED STATES saved
111 Baroque : WW II rewritten by CALTECH will be a super read. Cannot wait for more instalments. Now I understand, Brussels was liberated by Stalin. Simple once yo
112 Gunsontheroof : Here's to getting flamed: bombing troops isn't terrorism. The point Baroque was making is that your "we bailed your country out sixty years ago so yo
113 CALTECH : You made the claims, I just tried to put it into perspective. You stated UK troops liberarted Belgium as though it was U.S. troops failed or couldn't
114 Queso : Show me where I'm "cyber-sucking" the President? I have disagreed with many of the current President's policies and I'm not afraid to say so. You all
115 Baroque : Dear Oh me, CALTECH. Twas you that said the US liberated Belgium. I was merely trying to point out that actually it was the UK. Stalin in Brussels wa
116 Aaron747 : Methinks the VPotUS has been doing peyote for years on that count... Talk about selective quoting. Are you even aware of the greater context under wh
117 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Oh really? You only quoted part of what I wrote, and then couldn't even attribute it correctly. But yes, I am well aware of the context of that quote
118 EMBQA : What I find really funny is some wet nosed 16yr old telling a US Army Officer that has been in country what he is saying is wrong. Son, you need to d
119 Falcon84 : Demean? I do I "demean" him? I always call him either "President Bush", or "The President", or "Mr. Bush". That's showing respect for him because of
120 CALTECH : My oh my, please show me exactly where I stated the U.S. liberated Belgium, didn't happen. Never happened. Your twisted reply makes no logic at all.
121 Continental : So in the end, even if we are indeed kicking some ass, it was rather childish for the President to present his opinion in that way.
122 LAXspotter : Yeah the age factor comes out again, if a soldier came out from Iraq criticizing the effort, what are you going to say, that this Soldier is a moron?
123 FlyDeltaJets87 : No. Because that soldier has been there, been in the thick of it, and been able to form his own opinion first hand of the situation over there. But I
124 LAXspotter : I've talked to many soldiers at my college and they claim that the US Army forbids them from talking to reporters in a negative light, and I dont kno
125 EMBQA : Are you old enough to remember " First we're going to cut it off... then we're going to kill it." OK, replace son with young man..... continue with t
126 Post contains images MaidensGator : That's probably true, but it's a good start... Just have to keep at it... I read UH60's posts with great interest because he tells what he knows with
127 LAXspotter : I said Outspoken shiites, lol. Seriously, almost 90% of iraqis polled, forgot the name of the poll, said they had a better life under Saddam.
128 Wingnut767 : If I was honest enough to admit I was fighting the wrong people in the wrong country under a bullshit pretext, no amount of cheerleading from my super
129 LAXspotter : youre still buying this crap of we're giving them "freedom" come on, most Iraqis have said that they'd rather live in Saddam He isnt Japanese, LOL We
130 Toast : As yet, no one has defined what exactly 'finishing the job' means. Tired of hearing the mantra "all options are open except leaving". No, it's admitt
131 Falcon84 : Ok, this "lefty" is going to talk about it, Wingnut. Who is killing these people, for the most part: the insurgents are. They're gutless, low-life co
132 Wingnut767 : Leaving a stable Iraq ? Wow, Why such a hater? Do not worry you do not have to go and fight. There are plenty of brave volunteers out there doing you
133 Blackbird1331 : Well, I guess congress will not pass a bill to allow a third- term presidentsy. By the way, what are the latest numbers on his success/ failiar ratein
134 CALTECH : President Bush -39% democrat led congress -18% So the democrats are a bigger failure ?
135 Toast : And what exactly is "stable"? I hate liars, bigots, despots, idiots, and murderers. Bush somehow manages to reunite all those characteristics in one
136 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : But would that stop any soldier from ripping on policy once they were discharged from the military after their commitment was up? No, it wouldn't. Bu
137 Wingnut767 : Notice my post says thugs and Royals. Probably as sickened as I was under 8 years of the Hillbilly's from Arkansas. No nothing could be as bad as Sli
138 Wingnut767 : Because it is a all volunteer force. Filled with many people who have joined after the start of the Iraq war. I highly doubt that they would reenlist
139 Wingnut767 : Yes your dirty work The Ardennes, Normandy and 40 plus years of guarding the Fulda gap. And now trying to keep Islamic terrorists out of your cities
140 Post contains images Toast : Wow, and for all these years I thought Belgian authorities were in charge of Belgium's security.
141 Wingnut767 : Yea, it is easy to think that way when you have had the NATO security blanket wrapped around you for all of these years.
142 CALTECH : I am glad to hear that you are not mentally ill. You forget about 11 September, some dictators are probably lucky the U.S. has shown restraint. The U
143 QANTAS077 : remind me again about 9/11, wasn't that a Bin Laden operation? last time I looked the man was still on the fucking loose! if that's doing a good job
144 Wingnut767 : How do you deal with yourself? Your ranting responses and language make you look like the Stupid one. You sound just like Keith Olberman on PMSNBC.
145 UH60FtRucker : Ok, enough of the bitching. How do you YOU propose we deal with the situation? How do we address the fact that Islam, is either actively condoning or
146 FreequentFlier : First foray into the non-aviation section of airliners, so i guess I'll introduce myself. Aviation enthusiast, ridiculously cynical of all politicians
147 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Obviously you missed my point (Huge shock there    ) I can at least see and understand some of the reasons for being against the Iraq war. What I w
148 Toast : Believe me, not dictators but every sane person in the world gave a sigh of relief when it turned out Bush wasn't going to start pushing red buttons.
149 Toast : If you really want to listen to some of my armchair wisdom, then OK: 1.You are alone or almost. Go to the United Nations. Admit this war was unwarran
150 Post contains links QANTAS077 : well start by understanding why it exists, we know, or suspect that the reason the insurgency grew was due to the move by Bremmer back in 2004 when h
151 FlyDeltaJets87 : Yea, I know which one you'd pick too. And it's why I posted that quote by John Stuart Mill. Because it sums up YOU perfectly. Your way of thinking is
152 Wingnut767 : Just like they are taking care of the Palestinians? I actually think that most of the people including me would agree with you on this fact. But my c
153 Post contains images QANTAS077 : lol...stop thinking that the centre of the universe revolves around the USA, Bin Laden has had a gripe with House of Saud long before 1980 when the f
154 RJdxer : Cheney Has Hissy-Fit Over Gonzalez Probe Falcon84 Reply 86 Doing "something" doesn't mean hies competent, which he isn't Condi: Give Bush War Policy
155 FlyDeltaJets87 : I guess burying your head in the sand so that you're oblivious to the world around you allows you to do that. But just a tip- burying your head in th
156 CALTECH : Then all you so-called sane people do not understand the U.S. or Bush. I believe many of you so-called sane people said the same thing over and over
157 CALTECH : FlyDeltaJets87, look at his profile, Qantas077 is a anti-american Bush hater. One of the hobbies is someones' sister, real mature, must be a virgin.
158 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : By all means. It's a lot better when we're discussing the issue, and not throwing verbal barbs at one another! I for one, would not turn down help fr
159 Post contains images Toast : How far from it was it during the "Cuban missile crisis"? And would you trust a simpleton like Bush to know where to draw the line? I wouldn't. If Al
160 Seb146 : Why can't the United States go to Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Iran and say "Hey, we need help keeping the peace. We know you don't want us here, b
161 Post contains images Toast : Sure, beggars can't be choosers, but the thought of Wahhabism unleashed on Iraq in the form of Saudi soldiers makes me shudder. Iranians and Turks do
162 Post contains links and images CALTECH : I do not know, how close was Krushchev to pushing the red button? I think gore is very misguided bordering on dumb. Clinton Aspirin Factory Attack Ma
163 QANTAS077 : guess I'm living in fantasy land right now? nice house, nice car, good job...no worries in the world, I don't go around with "living in fear" tattooe
164 Post contains images Toast : Anybody's guess. I don't like Gore, but I doubt he would have dug such a deep hole for his country. Look closely at that article: See a difference be
165 CALTECH : Nowhere did you specify P-O-L-I-T-I-C-I-A-N-S, and democrats make up a substantial portion of the U.S. population. You are right, it would have been
166 Post contains images Toast : Your context detector needs urgent maintenance. He bombed with a unanimous agreement from the UN and neighboring countries. Too bad for Iraq, but the
167 Falcon84 : No wonder you fawn over Mr. Bush: you sound as arrogant and as childish as he does. And yes, some Americans are assholes.
168 Post contains links Baroque : We probably should vote on that and then close the thread - that summarizes the guts of it. Dear Caltech What you did was support JJ and by inference
169 LAXspotter : Qantas 007, Toast, you are the voice of Reason, thanks again.
170 QANTAS077 : thanks, but I'm not the voice of anything, the more you complicate situations they uglier they tend to become, its a very simple solution which is a
171 Post contains links Joni : Here is an inter-press story on the situation in Iraq: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39189 ""The latest in a series of mental health surveys
172 YOWza : I don't think the origin of the idea matters. It could have been Mickey Mouse's idea for all I care. I think the President of arguably the most power
173 Post contains images Wingnut767 : Let's all have a anti-war group hug and then stick our heads in the sand
174 Post contains links Baroque : Only after you have read Clausewitz On War Especially the bits about # the importance of "moral forces" (more than simply "morale") as opposed to # c
175 Post contains images Wingnut767 : What? What does that have to do with my post? I have read Clausewitz/ We should of had more troops during the Invasion. Agreed Th "fog" of war. Yes i
176 HuskyAviation : First of all, the Democrats don't have the political will to actually do anything about Iraq right now. The Democrats are stuck between a rock and a h
177 Post contains images Toast : The troops get my credit for that. And yes, I know Americans as a people don't have imperialist ambitions (similarly to most other nations BTW). But
178 Wingnut767 : So it would of still been okay for the minority to hold onto the power with coercion, threats and violence if Saddam had died in his sleep one night?
179 Toast : OK, no, not for me, but Iraq is (well, was) a sovereign nation and how they organize themselves is their business. Hitler and Ahmadinejad, to name bu
180 Wingnut767 : I am not talking about war. The war is over. The Iraqi army and Saddam were taken care of a long time ago. Winning the peace is what we must do. I am
181 HuskyAviation : Do you honestly believe that this would have occurred peacefully? Look at what happened after the Gulf War in 1991--there was a rebellion, and this e
182 Wingnut767 : So if the enemy of Bin Laden is the house of Saud then why is he blowing up women and children in Iraq, The U.S, Spain and anywhere else that he can.
183 Post contains images Wingnut767 :
184 Post contains images Toast : Asleep on the banks of East River. Because first, the Arab League is just as ineffective as the UN, and second, because the war in Iraq is a godsend
185 Seb146 : Maybe because he wants another homeland or safe haven for al-Qaida. He had one in Afganistan. If he can frighten people in Iraq into letting him be t
186 Toast : That's really harsh and cynical, Wingnut. Maybe not, but he sure as hell won't stop as long as you are there. Yes, but that was their business. Bush
187 HuskyAviation : Fair enough, yes they were a sovereign nation. That said, do you think that the world should stay out of all situations in which there are human righ
188 Toast : Depends. For example, many Muslim countries treat their women horrendously from a Westerner's point of view, but a lot of said women don't see it tha
189 Wingnut767 : Focus. We are talking about what to do now to help Iraq. Are they better off with us succeeding from this point on or us failing What is harsh and cy
190 Toast : I have a huge problem with what is going on in the Sudan. I have a huge problem with what is going on in many, many countries. Yes, Sudan must be inv
191 Wingnut767 : How come the UN is not doing that for the Palestinians? You are putting words in my mouth. I have never said that we should not take in refugees or h
192 Post contains links Toast : Israel doesn't let anyone near the Occupied Territories, especially the Gaza strip. Sorry, didn't mean to sound as if you had said that. Until Februa
193 QANTAS077 : you don't get it do you? its not your countries business what happens in Saudi Arabia, why does your administration continually go around telling the
194 NIKV69 : Solves nothing? Go get a text book and do some reading Monty. I guess instead of getting involved in a war we should have let Hitler just do his thin
195 PPVRA : "The fundamental flaw in our thinking about Bin Laden is that Muslims hate and attack us for what we are and think, rather than what we do." Muslims a
196 LAXspotter : Why dont people understand that, sheesh we are filled with they hate the way we live, our lifestyle, and so on, but the average Iraqi man turned insu
197 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Thank God you're not in charge of national security. That's pretty rich coming from you; someone who is completely oblivious to world around them.
198 QANTAS077 : yes...do so, Vietnam is a good starting point for you, then Korea, a war which hasn't ended... still going back 60 years? why do you people persist o
199 MaidensGator : Are you really that naive??? You've seen this??? Or just heard it somewhere.... Don't have to read many of your posts to figure it out... Oh, so the
200 HuskyAviation : Hmmmm, I wonder what the world would look like in the 20th century and beyond if the US had adopted that stance? We tried that in the 1920s and 1930s
201 Post contains links QANTAS077 : are you that naive to think that you can solve the worlds problems by force? official stat's from US government...try reading them for yourself. http
202 HuskyAviation : Because you said that we should take care of "home" rather than the rest of the world. There's more to the rest of the world than Iraq. 1940 is absol
203 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Ah, one of my favorite quotes: "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."- Gen. Douglas MacArth
204 MaidensGator : When did I say that??? Oh, I didn't.... " target=_blank>http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/26/news...rvey/ Funny, as I thought there's no mention of Katrin
205 Post contains images Baroque : Worth quoting him again and again. Interesting that he probably agrees more with Chomski than with the warmongers on this thread, although you would
206 Post contains images Sebolino : How surprised I am , that Americans use French jokes as an excuse and justification !! In terms of Ass kicked, you're trying to reach the same level
207 NIKV69 : Because you made a statement that makes no sense. Uh oh! Monty has been spending time on moveon.org! Keep telling yourself that Monty. Yea but betwee
208 Wingnut767 : Reality check Baroque. There will always be evil in this world. And you have to fight fire with fire. Not Humanitarian convoys. Very few people want
209 Post contains links Baroque : What are you on about? Have you read Scheuer? Here is part of a review: http://bostonphoenix.com/boston/news...s/multipage/documents/03949394.asp "Wh
210 PPVRA : He's hardly saying that. In fact, he would agree with Obama to a good degree vis a vis Pakistan. Check out how harsh he is with Clinton, and goes on
211 Baroque : With or without speakers PPVRA those certainly are relevant. I am not saying I agree, but I do think he should be listened to - carefully. The first
212 Joni : The Palestinians don't find the joke funny, and further haven't claimed Jerusalem as the capital of their state, but East Jerusalem. Israel wants to
213 HuskyAviation : The Chinese and Russians/Soviets have been obstructionists in the UN. To rely on the 5 permanent Security Council countries agreeing on a plan of act
214 CALTECH : Isn't this thread supposed to be about Iraq? I don't think he is really on the loose, sounds like he is living in caves and watching out for those UA
215 CALTECH : I don't believe I fawn over Bush, I believe he has made some mistakes and some things I do not agree with his outlook on them. Lot's of things I wish
216 CALTECH : JJ did not make a incorrect statement, ever hear of a WW2 battle called the Battle of the Bulge, last I looked Bastogne was in Belgium and most of th
217 CALTECH : Bali bombing was to get all those Americans that go there to vacation, right? Seems you have pissed off somebody there in Indonesia.
218 Seb146 : Clinton was told by the Republican leadership that he had to stand impeachment proceedings for lying about Monica and that Bin Laden was not an issue
219 Joni : All of the UN's member states, your own country included, will disagree with you here, in the context of our current discussion.
220 Post contains images Wingnut767 : What a lame ass excuse. They do not have the balls to do it before the 08 election
221 MaidensGator : So you're trying to convince us that first, the Republican Congress told the Democratic President what to do about Bin Laden and he rolled over. And
222 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : And the U.S. stood by and did nothing. Can't have a Shiite government running Iraq now, can we? This is PRECISELY why so many Iraqis--Kurds and Shiit
223 CALTECH : So where was the democrat leadership, or did Clinton ignore them? BS alert. Wrong, the Coalition was not willing to go further, the Arab nations who
224 Seb146 : He threatened to veto any bill that was not the way he wanted. Congress, not having enough votes to over-ride a veto, had to pass what he wanted. Eve
225 CALTECH : Except for 1812 and a raid on the U.S. capital, the U.S. has not yet been occupied or its' capital conquered, at least not yet. Just to set the recor
226 CALTECH : Like I first said, win elections. So the democrats couldn't get the support huh? To override a veto ? They did not even pass the bill and call on his
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