Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
MoveOn.org Slides Further Into Disrepute  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Straight political ads are fine, but this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/10/petraeus.moveon/index.html steps way over a line. Attacking a very honorable, decorated and fine officer like the General is just not right. He serves this nation honorably, and should be treated honorably.

They don't deserve any support on this idiocy.

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

The ad, running in Monday's edition of the New York Times, shows a picture of Petraeus. Bold letters spell out "General Petraeus or General Betray us?"

Except for one homophobic t-shirt I saw today, that might well be the most childish thing I've heard in a while.

The money spent on that ad could have been put to much better use.

-Mir

[Edited 2007-09-10 22:21:08]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):

Thank you very much Falcon.

I really disturbs me that some people opposed to the war, are willing to sink to the level of debasing Gen Petreus. While I've never met the man personally, I have served under his command. And I've also served under many commanders who know him personally. I have never heard of a general spoken so highly of. Indeed, he is very well liked amongst the troops.

He really does not deserve activists and politicians attacking him, simply because they're unable to formulate intelligent counter-arguments. It's very pathetic.  yuck 

-UH60


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

From the CNN article...

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid expressed frustration Monday with the ad. When asked early Monday if this was the right message for his party to send, the Nevada Democrat curtly answered, "No."

One of the first instances of not talking like a buffoon in well, I don't know when but it's a start for him. Might the Dems be taking a stand against MoveOn as a fringe element of their party?


"Every major independent study and many major news organizations cast serious doubt on Petraeus' claims," Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn.org Political Action Committee, said in a statement."

Wow! When did major news organizations become experts in military planning? I must have missed that memo.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Attacking a very honorable, decorated and fine officer like the General is just not right. He serves this nation honorably, and should be treated honorably.

They don't deserve any support on this idiocy.

I agree with UH60; I'm glad you posted this. I just heard about this in the office, then went to MoveOn.org (and got sidetracked by something else). Other than trying to get some headlines for MoveOn, I don't see how this rhetoric has any positive impact on how we should view the Congressional proceedings with the general.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

MoveOn may have reached too far and turned off may who may have supported them in the past by insulting General Petreaus by playing his last name as 'Betrayus'. That is an obscene attack on a Military Officer and should be rejected by all politicans (as many Democrats are).
Yes, one may question his (and the Ambassadors') testimony and how they determined it as they may have a limited view, but then again, they have access to a lot of info we, the public cannot know as may disclosure military and diplomatic procedures and actions. Let us hope that from this, as one lawmaker asked, what the Congress/Senate can do to help or pressure the Iraqi government to do what has to be done so we (the US Military) can leave.


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Here's the thing, and this crosses party lines.....whether or not we support the war is one thing. But since we are there fighting a war, I'm damn sure gonna support our troops, and those leading those troops, Patreus included.

Agree with Mir.....that was money poorly spent.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineDavestanKSAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1678 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Good post my friend Falcon, I agree. Definetly crosses the line.

Dave



Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

While I have been against the war from day one there is no way I can be anything but disgusted at this. This type of childishness and bickering are not at all productive. To even hint that somebody who has served in their country's military for so long is a traitor is pathetic.

YOWza

[Edited 2007-09-11 00:02:19]


12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5249 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

It may have outlived its usefulness. Wasn't MoveOn started to counter the Republican attacks against John Kerry? I believe the Republicans even attacked McCain during the last election cycle, I think it was something about his time as a POW. Crazy.

I don't think either side is clean. I don't appreciate attacks on people who unlike most of us have served their country. It can be argued why and how (Bush?) they served but not that they did, and that in itself is a good thing for our country.

Tug



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

I agree that this is a poor tactic (personal attack in general, and it is inexcusable that it implies he is treasonous), and I wish this ad was framed differently. But I'm not sure about "further" into disrepute. MoveOn is an organization that has, overall, been very good at applying pressure in productive ways. I think they are important to have around. During the election, they were particularly relevant and principled. It's true, I think they have gone in a bad direction recently, and I don't like some of the decisions they have made about which battles to fight, but most of their ads have been well-designed (until now) and avoided far-left pitfalls, and I certainly don't see them--or myself--as lunatic fringe. Sometimes you have to stand up for what is right and not just engage in cynical politics or lazy acceptance of white house spin. This ad calls attention to the problems surrounding official statistics and spin in Iraq. If it were less childish and petulant, it could have been good...

[Edited 2007-09-11 00:56:33]


It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):
Wasn't MoveOn started to counter the Republican attacks against John Kerry?

Nope. Moveon.org originated during the Clinton impeachment.

This is the same group that gave us the GWB/Hitler add.

It's a haven for the most extreme of the left to congregate and pretend to be a political action group. This isn't the first absolutely asinine thing to come out of moveon.org, nor will it be the last.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1636 times:

Yeah this one is pretty crappy. I don't care if you're for or against the war - I happen to be against it for the most part - but to attack the soldiers, other than the ones who committed crimes, is ridiculous (I agree with Tom in NO and YOWza 100% in what he said...obviously). I'd like to see the MoveOn.org folks go to Iraq...or hell, fly over Iraq at altitudes under 10,000 feet. Yeah, right...

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
Might the Dems be taking a stand against MoveOn as a fringe element of their party?

To me, MoveOn is a far left organization. In recent years, you've seen many Republicans distance themselves from the far right extremes, while the Dems have not really distanced themselves from the far left too much...this may be the start of it.

I sense this could be the beginning of a long road for MoveOn, and I'll be right there to pat them on the back at the end...with a spikey paddle.



EDIT: On second thought, this may not be the end for them. MoveOn attracts the farther left of the spectrum. Those on the farther left probably think Patraeus is an idiot anyways, without any fact or proof behind it, simply because he's in charge of a war they don't like. MoveOn could probably not give a flying cow what the right things...or even what the middle thinks...or hell, even what the near left thinks. They care what the far left thinks, and the far left hates Iraq, hates Bush, and probably hates the General.

[Edited 2007-09-11 02:34:31]

User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1627 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
They don't deserve any support on this idiocy.

I agree, Falcon. Thank you for posting.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1615 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
He serves this nation honorably, and should be treated honorably.

Based on the statements he made recently, I would say the ad was spot on when talking about cooking the books. Given that he has been heavily influenced by the White House and that the independent GAO has reported numbers opposite to what he has said, criticism is due.

Just because one serves in uniform, it doesn't make them immune to criticism.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1598 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Based on the statements he made recently, I would say the ad was spot on when talking about cooking the books. Given that he has been heavily influenced by the White House and that the independent GAO has reported numbers opposite to what he has said, criticism is due.

Prove it.

Just because in recent days the White House has been saying many of the same things General Petraues said today... doesn't mean they wrote the report! There was a face-to-face meet the day before the White House started echoing his comments. Of course they're on the same page. You would no doubt be attacking them, if they weren't.  Yeah sure

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Just because one serves in uniform, it doesn't make them immune to criticism.

You're right... but I would expect you, of all people, to understand that there ought to be evidence of your accusations, in order for them to stick!! Don't be one of those people who resorts to venemous attacks, based on political anger.

And you're clearly oblivious to the man and his record. And his experiences leading the 101st, in Iraq. Just because you don't like what he has to say, doesn't mean he's conspiring with the White House to mislead the American people! And such an outrageous claim only makes you look desperate.

-UH60


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Based on the statements he made recently, I would say the ad was spot on when talking about cooking the books. Given that he has been heavily influenced by the White House and that the independent GAO has reported numbers opposite to what he has said, criticism is due.

That may be. But there's a difference between honest criticism and the hateful childish kind in this ad. Had MoveOn run an ad saying "Is Patraeus the newest Bush spokesman?" we wouldn't be having this discussion. There is nothing honest or productive about a play on someone's name, especially when used to suggest that they are betraying their country. It wasn't right when some right wingers did with Obama/Osama, and it isn't right now.

Want to question the accuracy of his report? More power to you. But at least do it in a civilized and adult manner.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1572 times:

Now, very few of us on this website (or this planet, for that matter) have been to Iraq and seen what's going on first hand. Yet many people on this website are quick to say Iraq is failing or Iraq is on the right road, without having any proof beyond what their chosen media outlet, be it CNN or Fox News or other, has told them (each with their own agendas). You wouldn't trust someone to build your house if they had never done it before, would you? UH60 has been to Iraq, and while one persons testimony cannot prove or disprove much, he is, never the less, one of the few who has seen what is going on in its real light.

UH60 - I am not saying I am agreeing or disagreeing with you on anything Iraq related, I am simply saying I think you have a better clue of what is REALLY going on there than any of us posting here.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1570 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Based on the statements he made recently, I would say the ad was spot on when talking about cooking the books.

So now you have positioned yourself as a military force expert here on A.net? What next out of you? How is it you haven't won Jeopardy with all your expert knowledge in everything?  sarcastic 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Given that he has been heavily influenced by the White House...criticism is due.

Source? Proof?

Oh wait...conjecture on the part of the A.net Law Scholar in Residence.  sarcastic 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
the independent GAO has reported numbers opposite to what he has said

Since when did the GAO become an expert in military force projections and their ability to get, or not get, the job done? You're grasping at straws here Counselor.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Just because one serves in uniform, it doesn't make them immune to criticism.

No it doesn't but it is obvious what your agenda is here. You need to have some sources and evidence that the books are cooked and that the General is in cahoots with the White House. Until then you sound like a tinfoil hat wearing parrot of the folks over at MoveOn.org.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1549 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
Wow! When did major news organizations become experts in military planning? I must have missed that memo.

Hell, I don't even trust 'major news orginizations' to deliver accurate, unbiased news and they're branching out into military planning!?! I think I'm going to go hide in a cave somewhere.



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1538 times:

C'mon now. I think everybody knows Bush lied about Iraq for 4 1/2 years, and now Petraeus is lying for him. Hes using fuzzy math to nake it appear the troop escalation is working, when its not.

The USA cant police Iraq and solve their civil war, only they can do that. Lets get out and let them do it themselves, with out losing more American blood.

When will we admit Iraq is lost? How many more US soldiers have to die before we all admit we never should have went into Iraq and we should leave?

Nine soldiers died today alone, on today September 10th.

This has to end.

The military use to stay neutral and its sad to see 4 star generals cheerleading for Bush and this failed opccupation.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
that might well be the most childish thing I've heard in a while.

 checkmark 

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Thank you very much Falcon.

Ditto

Spot on Falcon . . . .

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid expressed frustration Monday with the ad.

Harry Reid likely "approved this message". He's a coward, a quitter, a disgrace . . . .

Quoting YOWza (Reply 8):
To even hint that somebody who has served in their country's military for so long is a traitor is pathetic.

I quite agree . . . . seems to me, I recall some saying the same of Powell . . . . unfortunate.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Based on the statements he made recently, I would say the ad was spot on when talking about cooking the books.

Based I'm sure, my friend, on your unending experience in a combat zone, leading troops in a firefight, ducking and covering for incoming, and covering your crews ass when they're dismounted.

Look, Alireza, I like you man, a lot, but you've jumped the shark here . . . .

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Just because one serves in uniform, it doesn't make them immune to criticism.

To be certain. And the General is NOT a traitor. Period. End of frackin paragraph.

Rather surprised at you, really. Disgusted even. I'll live of course.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1525 times:

Falcon, I am going to have to give you some points on this one.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
Nope. Moveon.org originated during the Clinton impeachment

Yup, and then George Soros gave them a whole lot of money in an attempt to buy the 2000 election.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Harry Reid likely "approved this message". He's a coward, a quitter, a disgrace . . . .

Yes he is. I will continue to give my salute every time I drive through Searchlight. A disgrace to the state of NV.

As for moveon.org and codepink they just showed us how low they have sunk today.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 21):
C'mon now. I think everybody knows Bush lied about Iraq for 4 1/2 years,

Horseshit. Prove it. What you need to do, n00b, is go read a few dozen threads here and see how badly this "theory" of yours has been buttstroked over the last 2-3-4 years. Then, talk the talk . . .

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 21):
and now Petraeus is lying for him.

More horseshit.


Pathetic . . .

Quoting L-188 (Reply 23):
Falcon, I am going to have to give you some points on this one.

Yup . . . my friend in CLE ocasionally has spike koolaide, but he's spot on today


25 Tugger : I read this this weekend: In his 1998 book, George H.W. Bush forecast problems if Iraq was invaded, writing: “We would have been forced to occupy Ba
26 UH60FtRucker : You're absolutely right... his report should spark debate in America. People should examine the evidence he presents to Congress. ...but to attack th
27 FXramper : I agree with you sir. I watched most of the hearins today. Way uncalled for for MoveOn; CNN was even reporting it as out of line to slander the Gener
28 Post contains images Miamiair : Your reasoning has left the building with this one. And it will, when the job is done properly. And as for the military, they are there 24/7. The top
29 Falcon84 : 1. We do not know if Bush lied. We know the intel was horribly innacurate. I did not agree wtih going to war in Iraq, but I've always maintained that
30 CALTECH : Ah, I second that, I agree with you Falcon84. Ah, I agree with you on this also. Wow 2 agrees in one post.
31 N1120A : How so? What he has or has not done in battle is irrelevant here. He may be a damn fine soldier, but he can still be told what to say. I don't necess
32 Allstarflyer : On the surface, I'd rather trust a military man than some bureaucrat, even if the bureaucrat is all about accountability, and this is doubly so since
33 N1120A : Some bureaucrat? The GAO's function is to prevent government waste and evaluate programs, including military campaigns, for their efficiency. A milit
34 Allstarflyer : If that's their primary function, then the GAO itself is an obvious waste.
35 N1120A : Excuse me? When you have what is essentially the largest corporation in the world that has the dual function of governing a population of 300 million
36 Post contains links UH60FtRucker : I already did. UH60 Sees Progress In Iraq (by UH60FtRucker Aug 29 2007 in Non Aviation) I saw first hand, the facts that he reported to congress. So,
37 Post contains links N1120A : Not at all. I am pissed off at him for being the mouthpiece of his bosses. The White House has claimed for months that it would be writing the report
38 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : Or else, weird things start happening...like $9 billion going missing in Iraq... http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/12/1410243 This mes
39 DavestanKSAN : What does UH have politically to gain in lying to us all here? If he was limited by OPSEC, wouldn't he refrain from posting at all? It's not like he'
40 Post contains links and images UH60FtRucker : lol... so now I'm lying too? Anyone else you want to lump into your vast conspiracy theory? But of course... you have your facts wrong. I once had a
41 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : Huh? Say what? Control yourself. Sounds like you trust them implicitly. Again, 1st-hand reports usually, and in this case, definitely, carry greater
42 RJdxer : There are two reports due out. One has already been released, that is the one that General Patraeus and Ambassador Crocker presented to Congress. The
43 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : Your observations are dully noted. What about Iraqis? http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3571504 "Barely a quarter of Iraqis say their security has im
44 MDorBust : Two things. 1) Iraqis saying they think security isn't better doesn't mean security isn't better. I know tons of old people living in upper scale neig
45 Gunsontheroof : So when it comes to the quality of life in Iraq, you're more interested in what Dave Patraeus has to say than what 2,222 Iraqis have to say? Who said
46 MDorBust : Nope. Just saying that impressions are not always reality and by extension the perceieved level of safety is not the same as the statistical level of
47 UH60FtRucker : I think a lot of people (including some people here on Anet!) are getting very defensive over this report. It's almost like they view the damn thing
48 UH60FtRucker : But he didn't report on the quality of life. And honestly, I don't think that the mission of the US military ought to be to build the nation. Our mis
49 DeltaGator : You claim that the general is cooking the books based on a MoveOn.org ad and you've never served a day of your life in any combat situation but yet y
50 Alfa75 : What??? There was no security issue in Iraq before we walked in like we owned it. You wouldn't need to be there securing Iraq if we never invaded in
51 Gunsontheroof : I'm not arguing with the statistics on attacks. Merely pointing out that General Patreaus and a significant number of Iraqis are offering very differ
52 UH60FtRucker : The military was tasked with invading. We did it. That's why we exist. But what I was saying, was that we do not exist to build nations. It's beyond
53 Itsnotfinals : Absolutely, I wish every US citizen could have a chance to understand what it means to really serve their country, thanks for your service. Absolutel
54 Gunsontheroof : I thought my "this message not brought to you by George Soros" comment earlier in the thread made my sentiments towards moveon.org pretty clear. I th
55 Post contains images N1120A : The GAO is a small agency that doesn't have actual control of the purse strings. Meanwhile, the continuous story of government waste that goes on in
56 N229NW : Welcome to my RU list. Your posts are articulate and bang on the money in this thread, and in the Iran thread. You saved me having to write a lot of
57 Coleplane : Yep. Heard from one radio source the NY Times "subsidized" this ad. Meaning a suspiciously large discount for a one page ad was extended to moveon.or
58 Post contains images Allstarflyer : I doubt he's withholding information, as he's been frank in the past. And maybe he has been in trouble for his openness here in the threads. But his
59 RJdxer : Right, they are bureaucrats in suits who don't have to worry about losing their civil service jobs. And whose budget is completely controlled by Cong
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Chinese Military Hacked Into Pentagon. posted Tue Sep 4 2007 00:35:02 by FXramper
"Deadliest Catch" Boat Turned Into A Cruise Ship. posted Mon Aug 13 2007 04:05:27 by L-188
Make Yourself Into A Simpson Character posted Fri Jul 27 2007 02:58:56 by AsstChiefMark
What Stereotypes Do You Fall Into? posted Mon Jul 23 2007 22:47:37 by ConcordeBoy
Ann Coulter Needs To Crawl Into A Hole And Die. posted Wed Jun 27 2007 16:01:24 by Luv2fly
Got Into A Fight With The Unions Today! posted Tue Jun 26 2007 17:24:16 by Bwest
Anyone Into Capoeira posted Wed Jun 20 2007 23:52:36 by LAXspotter
Update: TLV Passport Stamp Going Into The UAE posted Fri Jun 15 2007 11:27:08 by Evan767
The Askari Mosque Damaged Even Further posted Wed Jun 13 2007 11:34:17 by ME AVN FAN
Gaza Sinks Deeper And Deeper Into Chaos... posted Tue Jun 12 2007 15:48:40 by Beaucaire