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Iran's Ahmadinejad: Israel Can't Continue To Exist  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Yes, Mahmoud Iwantajihad is at it again, saying Israel cannot exist:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/12/ahmadinejad.itn/index.html

This guy is a menace to the Middle East region, and to the world in general. Anyone buy his claim he wants peace for everyone? If you do, I can sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.

And I'm just waiting breathlessly for those who always come on here and say this nut doesn't want to destroy Israel. Again, he's made it clear that that is precisely what he wants.

218 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

He keeps saying this shit all the time. Whats different this time? Let him say all the crap he wants..no one's listening.


אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Mahmoud Iwantajihad

Lame.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This guy is a menace to the Middle East region, and to the world in general.

He doesn't dictate Iranian foreign policy. What makes you think so?

The guy's a nut, but he doesn't pull the strings that matter. Let's not forget the wiping Israel "off the map" comment was a gross mistranslation that referred specifically to the Zionist government in Jerusalem--not the state of Israel--and for that matter, a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini.

But yeah, we're bombing them. Can't wait.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 2):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Mahmoud Iwantajihad

Lame.

 checkmark  Just about as childish as the General Patraeus/Betray-us thing earlier this week.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
And I'm just waiting breathlessly for those who always come on here and say this nut doesn't want to destroy Israel. Again, he's made it clear that that is precisely what he wants.

While we're on the subject of childish, I think he just has delusions of grandeur and wants to be in the headlines all the time ("look at me, I'm important!!"). He knows what would happen to him were he to attack Israel, and it wouldn't be just the US going after him. He still shouldn't be allowed to get a nuclear weapon, but I get the feeling that if he were really up to something nasty, he'd be playing his cards a little closer to the vest.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This guy is a menace to the Middle East region, and to the world in general.

He has limited power within his own government and his people are largely against him. The threat you seem to think he poses is greatly exaggerated.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
And I'm just waiting breathlessly for those who always come on here and say this nut doesn't want to destroy Israel. Again, he's made it clear that that is precisely what he wants.

I want Bush out of office, but I can't do much about it.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Ahmadinejad is a puppet.

"Death to Israel" has been a mantra since 1979 and no normal citizen over there (99.99999% of Iranians) pays any attention to that old bullshit.

His rhetoric is aimed exclusively at domestic consumption, and even in Iran his ratings are low.

For Iran to attack Israel or the US would take an extremely stupid leader. Call Ahmadinejad whatever you want, but he's not stupid and neither are the ayatollahs.


User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 5):
His rhetoric is aimed exclusively at domestic consumption, and even in Iran his ratings are low.

His rhetoric is aimed directly at Hamas and Hezbollah who Iran has supported in their struggle to destroy Israel since their creation.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
He knows what would happen to him were he to attack Israel, and it wouldn't be just the US going after him.

Yep. Those Israeli nukes aren't just for show. I'm going to cry laughing hysterically if someone comes into this thread claiming that Iran has nukes and Israel doesn't.

And again, Ahmadinejad can't declare war or mobilize the armed forces. Only Khamenei can do that, and while he's said some pretty nasty things about Israel, he also condemned the 9/11 attacks and refused to attend the Holocaust denier's conference. I don't see him pulling the trigger on any conflict with Israel.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
He still shouldn't be allowed to get a nuclear weapon, but I get the feeling that if he were really up to something nasty, he'd be playing his cards a little closer to the vest.

I don't think anyone has any business with nuclear weapons, but Bush/Cheney practically told Iran to develop one when they invaded Iraq.

Get ready for a lot more news like this--with the Bush Administration claiming that Iran is supporting groups it has traditionally been enemies with (Sunnis in Iraq, Taliban forces in Afghanistan), you can't feel good about where things are going.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineOsprey88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
He keeps saying this shit all the time. Whats different this time? Let him say all the crap he wants..no one's listening.

Given his pursuit of nuclear weapons, I think we should at least give him some thought...



"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Ahmadinejad: Israel Can't Continue To Exist

And yet what did Iran do about Israel: Nothing. Why? Because he knows that he'll have the entire IDF and the Americans (maybe even the Germans) on his ass, and Mahmoud knows that he will lose such a war, especially if the Americans are involved.

Bottom line: Mahmoud ain't gonna do anything, because whatever he does, he'll lose, and he knows that. So Israel, while they should be ready for the unthinkable, can relax a bit more, because Iran's threats don't mean anything, and they (Israel) would have military support in case Iran does declare war on them.

[Edited 2007-09-13 05:56:06]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 7):
I don't think anyone has any business with nuclear weapons, but Bush/Cheney practically told Iran to develop one when they invaded Iraq.

Indeed. It not only proved that the US was serious about going after the so-called "axis of evil", but also gave Iran the opportunity to get some influence in the region (which would make them harder to attack). Iran would be nuts not to try and take advantage of that opportunity.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
Bottom line: Mahmoud ain't gonna do anything, because whatever he does, he'll lose, and he knows that. So Israel, while they should be ready for the unthinkable, can relax a bit more, because Iran's threats don't mean anything, and they (Israel) would have military support in case Iran does declare war on them.

I don't think Iran would be stupid enough to attack Israel straight up, but it just sends a signal that Iran is going to continue to finance and support an underground guerrilla-like offensive against Israel through their proxies.


User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 6):
Hamas and Hezbollah who Iran has supported

Hamas was democratically elected. Israel didn't like it, pulled the plug on funds, so Hamas asked Iran for help.

Syria supports Hezbollah, too.

Israel remains a brutally efficient player in the region and a handful of excited Shiites isn't going to change that anytime soon.

[Edited 2007-09-13 06:06:21]

User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 12):
Hamas was democratically elected. Israel didn't like it, pulled the plug on funds, so Hamas asked Iran for help.

Syria supports Hezbollah, too.

Doesn't matter that they were elected or not--Iran supports their existence, not their government.


User currently offlineOsprey88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
And yet what did Iran do about Israel: Nothing. Why? Because he knows that he'll have the entire IDF and the Americans (maybe even the Germans) on his ass, and Mahmoud knows that he will lose such a war, especially if the Americans are involved.

Bottom line: Mahmoud ain't gonna do anything, because whatever he does, he'll lose, and he knows that. So Israel, while they should be ready for the unthinkable, can relax a bit more, because Iran's threats don't mean anything, and they (Israel) would have military support in case Iran does declare war on them.

Given his rhetoric we should take a very hard line against him, and we should take his threats very seriously. He can still cause considerable harm to the state of Israel in an indirect manner. I for one am not willing to standby and watch Iran attain nuclear weapons, or even the capability to attain nuclear weapons without constant regulation by the IAEA, or hopefully, another, more competent organization. It would be ever so easy for them to hand off one of these bombs, or even other types of radioactive material, to Hezbollah, a group that would be only to willing to annihilate Israel with one of them.

The man himself does not have to be crazy for his nuclear technology to fall in to the wrong hands.



"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 13):
Doesn't matter that they were elected or not

So I guess the sacred values of democracy that Bush touts so much in the region don't count if the people chooses someone the US and Israel don't like?


User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 14):
I for one am not willing to standby

Join the army then.

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 14):
nuclear technology to fall in to the wrong hands.

Newsflash: nuclear technology has been in the wrong hand for decades.


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Israel could take Iran on their own, but regardless they'd have at least US behind them.

What's scary is that in a poll (I heard this second hand, so take it with a grain of salt) 60% of Israelis don't think Israel will survive to see its centennial. Let them be wrong...

Am Yisrael Chai!



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineOsprey88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 16):
Newsflash: nuclear technology has been in the wrong hand for decades.

And that means we should not at least try and stop its proliferation into the hands of people with malicious intent?



"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 15):
So I guess the sacred values of democracy that Bush touts so much in the region don't count if the people chooses someone the US and Israel don't like?

When one of Hamas' sole causes for being is the destruction of another country (not just the regime, but the nation itself), and Iran economically, spiritually, and militarily supports their cause, that is war by proxy, whether or not they are in government or just a militant organization. You said Ahmadinejad's rhetoric is empty, I am submitting to you otherwise.

Just because they are now elected means their cause is legitimate?


User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 19):
Just because they are now elected means their cause is legitimate?

Do you really think it's a coincidence Hamas won the election? If you were born and had to live and raise your children on a tiny arid piece of land bordered by the sea and surrounded by a ruthless army ready to gun you down if you're in the street after dark, I bet you'd have a totally different view on who's the victim in this story.

As long as the Israelis treat the Palestinians like shit with the tacit approval of the US, there is no chance of peace in the region. Without a viable Palestinian state, no amount of bombing Israel's "enemies" into submission will accomplish anything but even more death and resentment.

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 18):
And that means we should not at least try and stop its proliferation into the hands of people with malicious intent?

As it is now, the world's largest stockpile of WMDs is in the US and the world's most seriously demented and warmongering leader is Bush. Would you like to be attacked "just in case" to stop Bush from further fucking the world?


User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 20):
Do you really think it's a coincidence Hamas won the election? If you were born and had to live and raise your children on a tiny arid piece of land bordered by the sea and surrounded by a ruthless army ready to gun you down if you're in the street after dark, I bet you'd have a totally different view on who's the victim in this story.

As long as the Israelis treat the Palestinians like shit with the tacit approval of the US, there is no chance of peace in the region. Without a viable Palestinian state, no amount of bombing Israel's "enemies" into submission will accomplish anything but even more death and resentment.

You've gone totally off topic because you have no argument. This thread is about Ahmadinejad calling for Israel's destruction, which you claimed is only for "domestic consumption." It isn't--it's much more than that. This is more about Iran's and Ahmadinejad's open cheerleading of the terrorist organizations that it props up to do the dirty work that it can't do out in the open. Therefore, it's not empty rhetoric and should be taken at least semi-seriously, considering Ahmadinejad is a total nut.


User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
Therefore, it's not empty rhetoric and should be taken at least semi-seriously,

Fine, if you're so paranoid about Iran and its support for Hezbollah (which it should be reminded is a potential threat to Israel and not the US, so it should be none of the US' business), what do you propose? Start killing Iranians before any Iranian can even pose the slightest theoretical threat to the US?

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
This thread is about Ahmadinejad calling for Israel's destruction

Ahmadinejad and every Iranian leader since the revolution. Just because he likes to talk about it doesn't mean Iran's the only country to dream about destroying Israel.

And even that is nothing but a tired slogan in Iran. Iran, contrarily to the US Saudi friends for example, has a large Jewish population which isn't oppressed any more than other Iranians. The majority of the worst jihadists who infest the region come from Saudi Arabia, that nest of vipers Bush calls his second home. Saudi extremism is the elephant in the room - cozying up to the people responsible for most Muslim terrorism, including 9/11, while planning to attack a country moderate by comparison is just idiotic and hypocritical. Start dealing with the Sauds and I'll start believing you really have an interest in peace in the Middle East.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Quoting Toast (Reply 16):
Newsflash: nuclear technology has been in the wrong hand for decades.

 checkmark 

Take Toast's advice in the other thread and Google up some images from Hiroshima. Read some stories of charred people with no skin wandering about the streets or trying to keep their guts from falling out of their torsos. Then come back and tell me that there's anybody in the world who has any business possessing this shit to wield as a deterrent or threat. No sane person can support the continued existence of these weapons by anybody. They're all "the wrong hands."



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 17):
Israel could take Iran on their own, but regardless they'd have at least US behind them.

and yet they couldnt destroy Hezbollah, what a shame

Atleast that wast the threat that Olmert made.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
25 Post contains images Baroque : It seems not. The failure to engage with Hamas will go down as the second craziest effort of the Bush administration after Iraq. As Tom Lehrer said,
26 Scorpio : If you believe for one single second that he is planning on actually destroying Israel by nuking it, thereby immediately, completely and irreversably
27 Queso : Welcome to the club, Falcon. Most of the replies in this thread reflect the thinking most of the current (younger than you and I) generation that has
28 Doona : The problem is that people don't seem to grasp what kind of power an Iranian president has. One cannot compare his power over his country to that of
29 Post contains images HAWK21M : Domestic Audience Entertainment. regds MEL
30 Post contains images Baroque : I hope you realise that is an anagram for the DEA - same difference I guess.
31 Wingnut767 : As opposed to how all of the Surrounding countries in the middle east have been treating Israel since 1947. Your muslim (arab) bias continues to show
32 HuskyAviation : What do I propose? How about Iran stops exporting terrorism and giving aid and comfort to those who want to kill as many civilian Israelis as possibl
33 ZakHH : Are you speaking about the brave and sensible people that triggered the so very badly needed Iraq war? That freed Iraqi people and established safety
34 Post contains images Toast : Not since Bush got elected. And "working for peace" while being openly and unashamedly pro-Israeli is what has inflamed the region more than anything
35 HuskyAviation : Oh, please. You must have forgotten that the creation of Israel is largely a function of the mess the Europeans made, and was mandated by the UN. The
36 Post contains images Baroque : And it always puzzled my why the Oslo accords are called, well the Oslo accords.
37 HuskyAviation : The Norwegians and notably Holst led the negotiations, and the US pushed Israel into entering the negotiations and supported the outcome.
38 Baroque : Pity that it did not ensure both parties kept to the agreement.
39 HuskyAviation : Yeah, wouldn't want the big, bad, meddling US to get involved. IIRC, it was Arafat who walked away, not the Israelis.
40 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - no, his is NOT a menace, but a tiresome nuisance. What he wants is irrelevant, as it is NOT he who makes the decisions in Tehran . - - by his words
41 Baroque : You might want to check on what the Oslo accords specified in relation to west Bank settlements and what actually happened.
42 Toast : No argument there. That must have been the most badly botched attempt at state creating in history. However, the US has ever since supported Israel i
43 CHRISBA777ER : Spot on - welcome to my RU list mate. Reminds of a quote - "'tis an ill wind that blows nobody any good" It is a worry. More fodder for the playstati
44 Bok269 : They screwed it up, but doesn't mean they couldn't do it.
45 LTU932 : I do not mean to diminish the military threat that Iran may impose, especially on Israel, but all I'm saying is that, given their inaction, we should
46 JGPH1A : Um, yes it does, at least in the eyes of their electorate - democracy can be such a bitch, not so ? You might not like it, but nobody's asking you.
47 DL021 : The dude who is threatening us controls significant military forces and represents a ruling council of mullahs who would use any weapon they thought n
48 Post contains images HuskyAviation : I agree, the US hasn't done enough to restrain Israel when it's gone too far, and it certainly has, like Sabra and Shatila. But I don't agree that th
49 LHStarAlliance : This guy is crazy ! They should know , the day they attack Israel was their last day ... I like left Politics , but this guy is getting worse and wor
50 Post contains images TheCol : So do you think Israel should actually support a regime bent on destroying them? In any case, I highly doubt Iran is a new player in that region. I w
51 Post contains images Toast : They were the only presidents with enough knowledge and interest in the region do do something, and they deserve respect for it. Too bad the US can't
52 Post contains images HuskyAviation : Not really--much of what Congress gave to the President had precedent and not unusual for Congress to cede authority to the President in times of cri
53 DC10extender : I guess I am in the minority of the younger people of this day and age in that I love the freedoms given to me by the sacrifices of our men and women
54 Post contains images Toast : Still amazingly high. How can over a third of the population still support him? Can people be bought that easily with tax breaks? Well, actually I su
55 HuskyAviation : Because there are other issues that are important to people, and 36% is an extremely low number for a 2-term President. That is NOT the way the Unite
56 Toast : What about all those NRA nuts going on about how gun ownership is the ultimate insurance against despotism? 220 years including at least two preventa
57 Wingnut767 : The truth hurts We will have to defeat the Democrats too-—not just not get help from them, but beat them like the Copperheads of the Civil War and
58 HuskyAviation : I suggest you familiarize yourself with the US Constitution and US history before you make statements like that.
59 JGPH1A : 1912 ? Ooh, new theory ! Federalists sank the Titanic ! I always knew it was them. "Wingnut" is about right. How do you have time to make all these p
60 Toast : I'm very familiar with them, thank you. However, I don't share the "Founding Father Fetish" and the notion that the Constitution is perfect and sacre
61 CALTECH : That would be the day, maybe the U.S. should make europe pay for the 2 world wars in what it cost the U.S. Instead the U.S. makes an ally, the U.K. p
62 HuskyAviation : You're also not an American so it doesn't matter much what you think of the Founding Fathers or the Constitution. And you're clearly not aware of how
63 Toast : And what makes you think I'm not? Where did I say that I thought they would?
64 PSA53 : What?! Ban weapons? And increase the crime rate in the US.Great!!Just ask Australia and territories.Not meaning to sidetrack the main thread title, n
65 HuskyAviation : Your overly simplistic arguments regarding impeachment, the Constitution, and a violent overthrow of the President, as well as the references you've
66 Toast : I haven't been in the US for years. I certainly don't pledge allegiance to it although I was spoon-fed that patriotic nonsense as a kid. And I live i
67 Flighty : So what is their game plan? What explains the constant headline-mongering? Terrorist recruitment? Or are we just being neurotic by even listening to
68 Toast : Staying in power indefinitely by playing on fear, nationalism, and a common enemy. Putin is doing exactly the same in Russia but is more discreet wit
69 Post contains images JGPH1A : Now where have I seen that before ? Hmmm, let me think.
70 Post contains links Queso : Source? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional
71 Post contains links Toast : From Charleton Heston himself: (http://www.nra.org/Speech.aspx?id=6042) Delusional indeed.
72 CALTECH : Okay liberal anti-american. Delusional is the thinking that a unarmed population could talk a despot into being benevolent, ask the 400,000 people fo
73 Toast : How many people in Poland owned guns when Solidarnosc brought Jaruzelski to the talking table? How many Indians were armed when they kicked the Briti
74 CALTECH : Neither of the examples sited had a despot involved. Next. Makes me sick to imagine that some fanatical muslims committed September 11th. Makes me si
75 DL021 : Thomas Jefferson.....framer and writer of the Constitution ""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people
76 Coleplane : Ah, yep. Bush "touts" peace and stability that comes with democracy. I'm speculating, but pretty sure you're right in that the US is not going to per
77 Toast : That makes two of us, actually. What difference does it make whether power was shared or in the hands of one man? Determination and intelligence is w
78 Toast : Wow, urgent information update required. Where did you read a jab aimed at the US in my remark? My statement entirely. Although it's no secret the co
79 CALTECH : The claim was made that these were 2 despot ruled situations, and I did not make them. I merely refuted the claim. Much better choice to listen to a
80 Coleplane : If I misinterpeted your statement, my appologies. Typically "nuclear technology" and "wrong hands" used in a single sentence infers the US. Just my h
81 Toast : I know there are conservatives out there. And yes, I do have a liberal bias. Most of it was there before I went to college. Everybody has a bias. How
82 CALTECH : Well, when I was younger, I was against the death penalty and for abortion. Then some sense came into my head. Like the saying goes, if you are under
83 Pbottenb : I like stalin's "Whoever has the guns counts the votes" quote myself...
84 Coleplane : This probably isn't as thorough as a similar response I gave on another thread. But here goes... - The Palestinians believe Israel occupies their lan
85 Post contains images Toast : Never heard that one. I'm over 25 and I can't imagine turning conservative before, say, 40. Over here, the only conservatives under that age are Flem
86 Pbottenb : Not entirely correct - Israel was brought into existence by the United Nations: On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to
87 CALTECH : There you go. Now you have heard something new. Not at this time,..............
88 Post contains images Springbok747 : Ok why the f*ck are you turning this into a pro-gun vs anti-gun thread? We've had enough of those. Because even the man who advocated non-violence un
89 Toast : It was given to them way before, under the British mandate in Palestine, but it wasn't called Israel yet. Galilee is anything but a desert. And yes,
90 Coleplane : Thanks Pbottenb. My history books are put away and was shooting from the hip. Please let me know when that time is. I'm curious as well...
91 CALTECH : Win the war, Soviet Russia (excuse me my Russian friends, just an example) took much of Poland after WW2 (and I will not get into the back and forth
92 Toast : Yes, but there wasn't the "nowhere to go" issue there. Germans were removed from Silesia and Pomerania and the Poles from the East were invited to re
93 CALTECH : Sure there was nowhere to go, when you are expelled from your land and home, come on. My relatives would all disagree with your statement, especially
94 Post contains images Toast : I meant the literal physical impossibility of going anywhere. Sure those population upheavals were a sad and bloody business and made no-one happy. P
95 Mir : No, it's definitely childish. Name calling is something that comes from a position of weakness (like referring to the US as "Great Satan"). This isn'
96 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Perhaps your sense of humor is lame. He wasn't far off with his description. How could the state of Israel not have a Zionist government? I thought i
97 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Err. Do you know what zionism is? Considering that zionism demands a jewish state in Israel, by definition a major population of Israel, including th
98 Post contains images Coleplane : Where's the theme to Jaws when you need it...
99 Fumanchewd : Absolutely. Of course most Europeans don't understand the necessity of maintaining a method of possible revolt. I personally find hunting revolting (
100 ME AVN FAN : - He may be crazy, or just a wild story teller. BUT "they" do not have the slightest intention to attack Israel. They wish that somebody else does so
101 Gunsontheroof : The Palestinians were also denied control over the aquifers that lie under the West Bank, control over their airspace and control over their borders.
102 Zak : iran needs to be prevented of having nuclear arms. sadly, the bush junta axed any chance of military intervention by anihilating u.s. credibility worl
103 Post contains images Baroque : Interesting comparison, by their actions Petraeus actually conducting a war is more of a problem that friend Ahmad just possibly threatening (not eno
104 Toast : Let's face it, Palestine never was offered anything approaching viable statehood, and that isn't going to change anytime soon. A sovereign Palestinia
105 CALTECH : Someone who stated that U.S. troops had no role in liberating Belgium, well, last I looked Bastogne was in Belgium and the battle of the Bulge was ma
106 HuskyAviation : Stats please?
107 Post contains images Baroque : Hagan and Bickerton, op cit, p 16. "Most Americans are probably unaware of the number of conflicts in which their country has been engaged: the IS ha
108 HuskyAviation : Military engagements are different than wars, first of all. And according to your analysis, I'd like to know how many the US "started." Hmmmm, lookin
109 CALTECH : Sadly, U.S. war deaths are minute compared to many european and asian countries, so though the U.S. has maybe been involved in more conflicts, the wa
110 ME AVN FAN : - No, no, no, Arafat could NOT accept a program which was just along the Indian Reservations in the USA. Nobody expected the independent Palestine to
111 Pbottenb : From your many posts on this subject it seems to me like you support this. Perhaps you are taking an incorrect message from your stats. Perhaps the l
112 ME AVN FAN : I do NOT support Hizbullah, I do NOT support Hamas, and I am rather negative about the political leaderships in both Iran and Saudi Arabia. - Arab co
113 Baroque : How do you know what message I take from Hagan and Bickerton's writing, is mind reading one of your skills? A couple of points. It takes two to tango
114 Pbottenb : ONLY? Interesting how you try to minimize the complicity of the Arab States, and the Palestinians themselves in the state of the mid east today. Do y
115 HuskyAviation : Do some research on the USS Maine. There has never been definitive agreement on the cause of the explosion. Define "many wars." and give examples ple
116 Post contains links Baroque : Actually, by and large they were - compared! I doubt if even the UK managed more than one a year. Why don't you do your own research? http://www.hnn.
117 Mham001 : Jeez, get over it, he is president for the next one year plus. Deal with it.
118 Pbottenb : I dont profess to know what you think..which is why I started my sentence with the word "Perhaps". However, it is clear that based on many of your st
119 ME AVN FAN : There was NOT a "complicity" but simply a position NOT to recognize Israel. Israel only became recognized AFTER 1973 - - > I do NOT support the attac
120 Post contains links PSA53 : http://www.yauponcreek.org/GunControl/AustraliaFacts.html http://www.gunsandcrime.org/aussiegc.html Of course,I'm relying on outside sources for info
121 CALTECH : It was tried with Clinton legally, and the path to September 11th continued. The damage was then irreversible.
122 Post contains links Pbottenb : Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 119): I do NOT support the attacks of either Hamas or Hizbullah against Israel. Excellent, now we are getting somewhere - Th
123 AGM100 : He is playing to the vast majority of Muslims throughout the world. As much as MAF tries to downplay the anti Israel sentiment in the Muslim world ...
124 CALTECH : Support of hezbollah with Iranian weapons and Iranian money? Come on,.....
125 Post contains links DavestanKSAN : Oh come on my friend, surely you can't believe that's true. According to this website, exit polls from the 2006 election show only 26.4% of voters vo
126 CALTECH : Go to "democrat underground" or the "daily kos", and come back and let us know what you think after that.
127 DavestanKSAN : Don't need to. As stated above, I have first hand knowledge of Jewish voting tendencies. I could pick out things from a far right website too and lab
128 AGM100 : I am beginning to wonder Dave ,, in a poll question .. of course they will probably answer the question. And I would hope 100% of liberal Jews would
129 RJpieces : Are you serious here???? Just because most Jews are left-leaning does not mean that the left-wing supports Israel. Citing a statistic that most Jews
130 Pbottenb : No reply Baroque? Cant come up with an answer? Its a simple question: Do you agree with Iran's Ahmadinejad on Israel or not?
131 JGPH1A : Like they have a choice, when saying one word against any aspect of Israeli government policy will get you branded "anti-semitic" quicker than you ca
132 DavestanKSAN : Without context, you're correct. However, understand why I quoted those statistics. The original quote was this: How many Jews do you think would say
133 Coleplane : No thanks. I feel my country's unappreciated enough... Ah, yep. Good one HuskyAviation. Yeah, but only one launches the first strike. On Discovery Ti
134 Post contains links RJpieces : Unfortunately, too many. Tony Judt, Tony Kushner, George Soros come to mind. There was a controversial article a few months ago called " "Progressive
135 AGM100 : Dave , you know I have actually talked to few who do not believe that it should. As a matter of fact the owner of the Starbucks right down the road f
136 CALTECH : So you are saying only Jews make up the left wing? There is a lot of people who are not Jewish who are left -wing, more than Jewish folks who are lef
137 Coleplane : I didn't read any further. Wow, never thought I'd hear it. Finally some truth comes out. Another shocker.
138 DavestanKSAN : Unfortunately for your arguments, too many, and talking to a few doesn't equal to half or more of the left wing. That's hardly exact science. I appre
139 AGM100 : I agree I can not talk to 1/2 of the liberal Jews, but I am not optomistic about it. What would you guess the percentage of Muslims are that think Is
140 DavestanKSAN : I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. That would be some poll though huh? haha. btw, (cue cargo bay) you're on my RU list once I get more r
141 AGM100 : Actually Dave I hope you are right ,, I want to be wrong about that . Peace , thnaks for the delayed RU So who are you going to cut to put me in ...
142 Yellowstone : Seriously, this debate over whether half of liberals believe Israel shouldn't exist is complete and utter BS. Having grown up in the SF Bay Area of Ca
143 Post contains links Baroque : Oh dear Pbott is getting impatient. Meanwhile (I do sleep occasionally) Yellowstone has just given an excellent answer. The way you ask the question
144 Post contains images TBCITDG : Some people preach free speech . . . although only when it suits them! my
145 ME AVN FAN : - I do not only denounce them, I find such rethorics both idiotic and dangerous, and an insult to his own people - - The Iranian "threats" are absolu
146 CALTECH : It was kinda hard to follow, it read like that kind of. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not believe that over half feel that way in the left win
147 AGM100 : Yellow , I have not seen any. Of course I didn't read all of them. This is not a scientific pole , I am speaking about what is in peoples hearts and
148 AA777 : Sadly there are very few Americans, or American leaders who actually understand the truth of what you've just said. The US may attack Iran, in which
149 Yellowstone : When you bring up the Muslim world, I think you ask a much more interesting question. While the vast majority of Westerners, liberal and conservative
150 AGM100 : Agreed , it is the case for sure. And further , even though I admire the Jewish people and feel more akin to them that Muslims, I do not really suppo
151 Yellowstone : Agreed. I'm not about to argue that Iran's opposition to Israel is solely vocal. Although, to be fair, the use of proxy armies to attack other countr
152 AGM100 : It is a valid point , however the reasons were different. Although their are similarities for sure I do not believe that the US ever supported the ou
153 Yellowstone : Also agreed. I just don't want anyone going around complaining about how using proxy armies is a devious or underhanded strategy on Iran's part witho
154 Post contains images DavestanKSAN : Ahh I see, no worries mate. Sorry it was hard to follow. . Dave
155 PSA53 : Domestic issues,such as this one in which you have better access, can get "lost in translation" over here.I do not know currently your gun control law
156 JGPH1A : The overall intent was to ensure that American companies could continue to operate untrammelled in a vast untapped pool of cheap amenable labour. It
157 Dougloid : All that shucking and jiving and yassuh-ing got the accommodationist Jews of Europe exactly nothing and nowhere.
158 Yellowstone : Not true. Many Jews did very well in Western Europe in the 1800s and early 1900s. Plus, what you refer to as "accommodationist Jews" basically descri
159 HuskyAviation : Labor from whom? The Cold War may have been in part about protecting the US economy, but that was a piece of the puzzle. If it had simply been about
160 JGPH1A : I'm talking about the heavy hand the US showed in Central and Latin America, overthrowing left wing regimes and propping up rightwing ones. This is w
161 AGM100 : True enough , and it is always at the for-front. But , I believe my point was that the US was not hyper vowed to destroy some country. Let say you ar
162 HuskyAviation : Well you stated that those actions were universal underpinning the Cold War, which is not true. Yes, those actions in Latin America were not about de
163 JGPH1A : This is breathtakingly arrogant - "It's OK to exploit people, because they'll be better off in the long run". So slavery is OK, because people have a
164 Yellowstone : As it was my comment that sparked the thread derailment, I would like to point out that this is not a thread about US-Latin American relations. Thanks
165 AGM100 : Not my point , my point is to compare the actions of Iran to those of the US in the Slave wars as you put it. Its not like Iran wants to colonize Isr
166 Baroque : Stunning that statement. No, the thread is not about S America, but the rest of the world did (and does) watch and take note of what happened in S Am
167 JGPH1A : That is just YOUR opinion, and it is, I'm sorry to say, indicative of the arrogant attitude of many Americans - "Our way or the highway, with us or a
168 AGM100 : Of all the advances of mankind in past 100 years you pick McDonanlds ... I dont get it. Because we invented Junk food ! damn it .. JGPH , I know you
169 JGPH1A : Where did I say that ? Have I ever once ever said I don't like Americans ? Of course I like Americans, my brother's kids are American. What I have a
170 AGM100 : In Fainess you have not , Their is no right . Sitting by while the people of Iraq and other nations are gripped by a dictator who is openly hostile a
171 JGPH1A : It may not be right, no, but to say that America acted to free the Iraqi's when for the all the years prior to the invasion of Kuwait, the US was an
172 HuskyAviation : So where is the outrage on these boards about what the Chinese do? The Chinese do nothing at all for the environment, human rights, instead using the
173 JGPH1A : It's not meddling. It's expressing a wish - nobody can elect your politicians but you. Don't you want politicians who show the world what America is
174 ME AVN FAN : To say it clearly, by historic evidence, I am against that "State of Israel" but by realities of the past 50 years, with generations of Israelis born
175 Dougloid : At the end of the day, it didn't matter that Joe Schmoe was a decorated veteran from the first war or had earned the Nobel Prize or had actually deve
176 Wingnut767 : Do you think that the Palestianians had been pushed out by Israel? On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel
177 Coleplane : As well you shouldn't. Despite what you read or hear, we are the good guys. Exactly what the US and our allies are trying to accomplish in Iraq. A de
178 Yellowstone : I still don't think your highly pejorative view of Reform Judaism in Europe is deserved. Look at it this way. The US and its Jewish population basica
179 Coleplane : "No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough..." You are exactly right.[Edited 2007-09-17 01:37:23]
180 Post contains links CALTECH : They HAD been there, unless of a president of the U.S. lied, and all these others. Bombing did not account for all of these WMDs. http://www.snopes.c
181 Post contains links Baroque : Yes. And if you are going to quote two screens of text from one side of the dispute, kindly have the common decency to cite the source http://www.mas
182 ME AVN FAN : quite to the contrary, they were encouraged to stay and to wait, but some panicked after some massacres. And many, for instance in Haifa, were told b
183 Post contains links Baroque : Second hand rhetoric MAF, he does not chose to cite what he quotes at inordinate length. Since Wn has quoted at length from Masada2000 here is someth
184 Dougloid : It's not pejorative at all to state the truth, so save the ad hominem for someone who'll be impressed by it. Reform Judaism simply was not equipped t
185 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : I will tell you we need it. We needed it then and we still need it now, and we were justified in using them when we did. According to Leno, he's "Mah
186 Yellowstone : When did I insult you in that post? All I said was that your statements disapprove of Reform Judaism, and disagreeing with your opinion is not an ad
187 Dougloid : That's your theory, and there's naught to support it but your assertions. With all due respect it sounds like a paper you're working on. I'd venture
188 Yellowstone : I agree with you that accommodationism had different results in different places, and it sure as hell didn't help European Jews living in the 1940s.
189 Baroque : Certainly the good Rabbi and almost certainly Ahmad are not advocating killing the inhabitants, they are talking about a political entity, just as a
190 Post contains links HuskyAviation : From Wikipedia regarding Hamas: "On February 8, Hamas head Khaled Mashal speaking in Cairo had clarified that "Anyone who thinks Hamas will change is
191 Baroque : I do not recall writing about Hamas. But since you insist, the authority in the Wiki link you give is the US State Department. This might not be an e
192 Baroque : Much of this stems from a promise made in Tehran about providing funding when the west stopped funding Gaza. It is far from clear that Iran has actua
193 Post contains links HuskyAviation : I find it amusing, that you, Baroque, take any source that you believe is "biased" and dispute it based on the source provided. However, you take any
194 ME AVN FAN : - you might at least realize that the sponsors of the Palestinian extremists are NOT the Iranians but the Saudis, the darlings of the USA -
195 Post contains links CALTECH : Wrong, Iran supports them too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4739900.stm
196 ME AVN FAN : Not wrong, but in fact very simple. It is the tiny difference between support and sponsoring. Iran gets paid by the KSA to deliver things like weapon
197 Post contains links CALTECH : Wrong the statement is. Again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4739900.stm http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sponsor sponsor 2 entries found for s
198 ME AVN FAN : No, your references are wrong. People do not realize that sponsoring means the actual financing. And Iran in regard to Hamas is financed by the KSA.
199 Post contains links Baroque : Most of those either go back to State or to Iranian emigres who are basically the source for State (and we know how accurate the Iraqi emigres were!)
200 Post contains links CALTECH : The references are correct, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...xml=/news/2007/06/22/wmeast122.xml http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.p
201 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Facts all over the place, but not in writing as the Saudis would send round a lawyer. Suppose you believe everything in writing ?
202 Baroque : Dear Caltech Please go and read George Joffee op cit in reply 199. And be careful of anyone offering to play pea and thimble!
203 CALTECH : I think I will believe the preponderence of the evidence over some statements by a a.netter. BBC, Telegraph, NY Times, Governments of Egypt and Jorda
204 ME AVN FAN : - it is NOT a "statement by a a-netter", it is lots of evidence and lots of books and lots of reports. German-speakers on this forum will realize wha
205 CALTECH : Still doesn't change the fact that, "Iran sponsors and supports Hamas". So, they support terrorism. You can't change that, so sorry.
206 ME AVN FAN : I never wanted to deny that the Iranian leadership supports violent organisation, and I never had any doubt about their support. In case of Hamas, I
207 Post contains links MDorBust : Okay Iran supporters, explain this one... http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0709199796134418.htm The Final response... hmmm..
208 ME AVN FAN : " target=_blank>http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/men...8.htm that it IS a threat is beyond doubt. My guess is that it is simply rethorics, with heavy
209 CALTECH : May I remind you, your written words, Please. Not fun proving the wrong over and over again. As long as the U.S. supports Israel, or another powerful
210 ME AVN FAN : I repeat that the sponsors of Hamas are the Saudis. They finance Hamas, and they pay the bill for the Iranian services. To me there is a definite dif
211 Post contains links Baroque : Compare and contrast statement A with statement B http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh "To undermine Iran, which is predo
212 HuskyAviation : You asked for evidence that there is a link between Hamas and Iran. George Joffee: "There's long been a link, in fact, between Iran and Hamas -- alth
213 ME AVN FAN : there is a triple-link: the KSA financing Hamas and supporting it politically --- the KSA financing Iranian services and deliveries to Hamas --- the
214 MDorBust : Okay, statement A is a blatant threat by the Iranian government which probably raised the DEFCON level and draws obvious parallels the Hitlers "Final
215 Baroque : Yes, I know, I invited you to read Joffee. You will note that he says (and I quote from your quote) "but I don't think it went to the point of being
216 Baroque : I guess calling a country part of an Axis of evil in when, oh quite a while ago and then invading another country named in the same speech would just
217 Post contains links MDorBust : Calling a nation a member of the Axis of Evil is slightly different that saying "we are implementing the final solution on October 12, 1997" For some
218 A380US : im going to a rally monday with my school in the city to protest against him
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