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Irate Dies After Being Arrested!  
User currently offlineSEATTLE OPS From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 202 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 12 months 4 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Check this out!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...IRPORT_DEATH?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

uh..okay then, someone obviously has some mental problems to work out..


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User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 1):
uh..okay then, someone obviously has some mental problems to work out..

uh, she's dead.... ain't no working those out.... duh.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineBridogger6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 716 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Yeah, my friend from work was trying to text me the news of this when it had actually happened but they were so vague and disjointed I didn't think much of it! People really do lose it sometimes when they miss their flights, but killing yourself? Wow, that's pretty extreme...

User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 2):

uh, she's dead.... ain't no working those out.... duh.

it was supposed to be had... duh



[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3402 times:
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Okay, she was agitated and irate, but apart from that why was she still handcuffed in the holding cell?


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

She somehow killed herself trying to get out of the handcuffs. I suspect there should be an investigation of how this arrest went very wrong. Probably she had mental health problems, that led to her being arrested in the first place.. She has a husband, the son of a NY City administrative official, I believe Consumer Affairs, who I suspect will file a big time lawsuit against the airport/PHX police forces for her death

User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
but apart from that why was she still handcuffed in the holding cell?

Well if she was in a mental state to kill herself trying to get handcuffs off, what other things could she have done if she hadn't been handcuffed. The last time i checked airport "holding cells" are not the same kind of damage and escape proof ones you would see in a police station. If she was not handcuffed there was probably a significant risk that she might have escaped or injured someone else as well.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
She somehow killed herself trying to get out of the handcuffs. I suspect there should be an investigation of how this arrest went very wrong. Probably she had mental health problems, that led to her being arrested in the first place.. She has a husband, the son of a NY City administrative official, I believe Consumer Affairs, who I suspect will file a big time lawsuit against the airport/PHX police forces for her death

Other than maybe taking an officer away from patrolling the airport to sit for hours and watch someone already in custody i fail to see how the police did anything wrong with the arrest. Why are we "looking" to blame someone for this woman's actions. While her death is tragic (and my sympathies go out to the family) why is she not to blame for her actions i.e becoming irate and needing to be restrained and then trying to escape and killing herself in the process. For those that say she may have had mental issues (that has yet to be determined if she did) why did someone who actually knows her and her conditions not travel with her to prevent this from ever happening.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Why did she have to be arrested in the first place?

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
Okay, she was agitated and irate, but apart from that why was she still handcuffed in the holding cell?

That is an excellent question. Aside from how 'unstable' and 'agitated' this woman was, I cannot fathom the need for redundancy here. This is the most obvious catalyst for a lawsuit I think I've ever seen.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
That is an excellent question.

Violent behaviour. Officers unable to get her to turn so they can get them off.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
This is the most obvious catalyst for a lawsuit I think I've ever seen.

Typically American reaction. Use anything as an excuse to sue someone.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 10):
Typically American reaction. Use anything as an excuse to sue someone.

No, typical American police behaviour, do what you can to escalate the situation. A pax is denied to her flight and is angry about it, but instead of calming her down they arrest her and throw her handcuffed in a cell.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Being angry and running up and down the gate area? (I assume "running" in the sense of fast walking). Completely understandable when you're having a stressful journey and have to wait longer than originally expected.

User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 11):

No, typical American police behaviour, do what you can to escalate the situation. A pax is denied to her flight and is angry about it, but instead of calming her down they arrest her and throw her handcuffed in a cell.

I'd like to see you go down to any airport in Europe and throw a fit and see how the local police and security react. I have seen irate passengers being lead away in handcuffs at CDG. I've been an irate passenger before, but nobody arrested me.

First of all, how do you know the circumstances that lead up to her being arrested? Was she warned, were efforts made to calm her down, was she rebooked on the next flight (yes)? How do you know that no effort was made to calm her down? What do we know except what was written in the press...

You know, I'd tend to trust the judgment of the police officers at the airport confronting and dealing with this irate passenger rather than some A.net member sitting behind their keyboard in Germany judging their actions as "typical American police behavior."

-n1786b


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 15):

I'm not going to the defend the German police here - leave alone the French - but I doubt they'd arrest a person that is walking up and down and saying some words of anger over a denied boarding.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 15):
'd tend to trust the judgment of the police officers

I always thought the Germans were the ones who would blindly follow authorities. Guess I was wrong.


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 14):
Being angry and running up and down the gate area?

If you're being disruptive at the gate of a flight you're not allowed to be on, that's more than enough to be arrested for. Not only is it a security risk, it's disorderly conduct.

And remember, what if that means she was actually running up and down the gate itself? That's a major security risk. Someone at AUS was recently arrested because he missed his flight and decided to take it upon himself to use an emergency exit, walk out on the tarmac, climb the gate stairs, and board that way.

But hey, it's all okay. He missed his flight, so he should be allowed to do whatever he pleases.  

Quoting Thorben (Reply 14):
I assume "running" in the sense of fast walking

  

You weren't there.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 14):
Completely understandable when you're having a stressful journey and have to wait longer than originally expected.

Oh really? So I guess whenever my flight is late or if I have to wait longer than I would like, I should be allowed to act like a complete jackass in public.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 16):
but I doubt they'd arrest a person that is walking up and down and saying some words of anger over a denied boarding.

Yes, becausing "walking up and down and saying some words of anger" is all she apparentely did here.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 16):
I always thought the Germans were the ones who would blindly follow authorities. Guess I was wrong.

Maybe - perhaps the Germans are the ones to blindly follow idiots.............hmmmmmmmmmm.


I'll also point out that if it turns out that this woman was mentally ill and lost her life because of that, than I feel very sorry for her. But if it was just stupidity.............sorry.





-NWA742

[Edited 2007-09-30 16:46:29]

User currently offlineFemme From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Poor woman may have had a heart attack, stress is sometimes all it takes.....Tragic situation

Claire


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 11):



Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):

Get your head out of the sand. Its obvious that the women was a complete nutcase.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 7):
Other than maybe taking an officer away from patrolling the airport to sit for hours and watch someone already in custody i fail to see how the police did anything wrong with the arrest.

Welcome to one of the dirty little secrets of law enforcement. Sometimes officers get pulled off patrol to go be glorified babysitters. So stop bitching when it takes 30 minutes for someone to get to the scene of your fender bender

Quoting Thorben (Reply 11):
No, typical American police behaviour, do what you can to escalate the situation. A pax is denied to her flight and is angry about it, but instead of calming her down they arrest her and throw her handcuffed in a cell.

So how many times have you been "wrongly" arrested and for what? If you throw enough of a hissy in the terminal, you will be handcuffed and led away. Welcome to the post 9/11 world.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 1):
uh..okay then, someone obviously has some mental problems to work out..

Sounds like the type of hysteria I've seen New York women do a couple of times in the past. Lots of histrionics, lots of fast talk, lots of accent.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5649 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 1):
someone obviously has some mental problems

Bingo. All this nonsense of how the police responded to the situation is just that. This woman was quite clearly a nutcase if she managed to strangle herself with handcuffs.

And to the German poster... you were probably 9,000 miles away at the time it happened. I've talked to people that were right there. She was way beyond being calmed down, hence the handcuffs and jail cell.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1641 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 18):
Welcome to one of the dirty little secrets of law enforcement.

Hey, if it prevents mentally disturbed people from killing themselves in holding cells, I wouldn't call it a "dirty little secret", IMO it would be an important part of the job.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):
She was way beyond being calmed down, hence the handcuffs and jail cell.

Then she should have been sedated. A person died, and if it could have been prevented it should have been.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13609 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1627 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 11):
No, typical American police behaviour, do what you can to escalate the situation.

Typical Euro reaction - assume that the American police are monsters and are always in the wrong.

Gosh, if only we were all as enlightened as you...  sarcastic 



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1624 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 15):
Maybe - perhaps the Germans are the ones to blindly follow idiots.............hmmmmmmmmmm.

Everything in your post was spot-on, but this was a little uncalled for.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

This story has got more than usual attention here in NYC for the connections between the woman who died and her mother in law being a known NYC official (Public Advocate). Her behavior may have been in part due that the next day there was to be an 'open house' for their million $+ townhouse her and her husband have for sale and wanted to be there for that.
From what we know of this woman's behavior at PHX, the police/security most probably made the right decision to arrest her. Still, this is a serious problem for the PHX police. Something went very wrong and may have been prevented. The Coroner will do their investigation to see if somehow she choked herself trying to get out of her handcuffs. The PHX police will have to be investigated to look at their procedures to see if they could have done something to prevent this woman's death. Nobody should ever die if arrested and the police could have prevented that.


25 NWA742 : Perhaps, but remember he's the one who wants to sit there and generalize, so maybe he deserves a taste of his own medicine. -NWA742
26 Post contains links RFields5421 : Forcably administered chemicals to cause stupor or unconciousness against her will by non-medically trained people? Are you kidding? Is that allowed
27 Doona : Yeah, because I think that having untrained people administering drugs left and right is a good idea. No, what I meant was that perhaps having somebo
28 Post contains images GEEDO : Agreed. Glad everyone has us figured out. They all sing a different tune, though, when they need our help, don't they?
29 RFields5421 : Right or wrong - there are significant laws in the US which make sedation of a patient outside a hospital without their permission or that of a relati
30 Maverick623 : The video was released by Phoenix PD, you can view it at CNN.com I think it quite clearly shows that the woman had problems, and that the police acted
31 AirCop : They already have hired a big time Arizona attorney who won a couple of million dollar lawsuits against Sheriff Joe. Not exactly what happen here, yo
32 NWA742 : You have seriously got to be kidding.......... A. You're STILL trying to pin blame on authorities here. You're actually still trying to fault someone
33 AirCop : You are kidding aren't you? The fastest way to get her evaluated in Phoenix, would be to transport her to the county jail, taking her to the ER would
34 WellHung : Well, you do it on the without any provocation on the tubular interwebs, so why not in real life? When you're dealing with folks who take pleasure in
35 NWA742 : Wow - it's been awhile since your last obsessive little jab. Good to see you back at it...........keep up your battle! -NWA742
36 Post contains links EA CO AS : Here's a bit more info...and if you're looking to point fingers to hold someone accountable for her death, it has to be squarely at her...and HER HUSB
37 AsstChiefMark : I can just imagine her standing in the gate area yelling, "I'm not a terrorist." So can you. Just close your eyes and imagine Fran Drescher throwing a
38 AirCop : Nah, its Phoenix, if she didn't say in Spanish, no one understood her. Thanks EA CO AS for making my point.
39 Wukka : I'm not going to say that the police did anything wrong except for not calling the paramedics once they had her in cuffs and restrained. That may come
40 Lobster : Why?? Because some passenger was acting completely out of control? If the cops had to call EMS for every person put in restraints who was acting like
41 AsstChiefMark : You can't take a lifelong New York woman out of her closed, self-centered environment and expect her to survive. Christ Alrighty! You might as well ha
42 Post contains images Maverick623 : You have no idea how true that is. Finally, someone else gets it!
43 Bok269 : I was watching a documentary on TV about the Las Vegas jail and their use of a device caused a restraint chair. If a suspect becomes irate and violen
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