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US Troops At OAK; Ugly.  
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
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Based on this article, can anyone explain what the hell OAK was thinking?   

The uncoolest website

[Edited 2007-10-06 02:06:10]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Sounds to me as simple as they say in the article - they had procedures in place to screen these types of flights if required but they were not told in advance that this was needed for this particular flight. Therefore standard procedures applied, and the a/c was left at a remote stand.

Why make it into any more of a big deal than that??  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Star_world (Reply 2):


Why make it into any more of a big deal than that??

Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left? I dont think the article was well written (I read it twice and still wasnt sure if I understood everything correctly) so I really dont have an opnion on the situation, but I highly doubt anyone at OAK "hates" US troops and wants to leave them on a plane for 2 hours.

[Edited 2007-10-06 02:26:44]

User currently offlineCjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left? I dont think the article was well written (I read it twice and still wasnt sure if I understood everything correctly) so I really dont have an opnion on the situation, but I highly doubt anyone at OAK "hates" US troops and wants to leave them on a plane for 2 hours.

What a terrible shame, the troops were denied the comfort of friends and family because someone dropped the ball whether it was the airport, TSA or Hilltop who knows; and all you are concerned about is whether Americans can express opinions that run contrary to yours.

Way to go Champ you should be proud!



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Where's the problem? Soldiers experience more unbearable situations. I'd find it scandalous, if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!


DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
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Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 5):
Where's the problem? Soldiers experience more unbearable situations. I'd find it scandalous, if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!

I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community. This whole thing could have been solved with just a few phone calls. I find the level of incompetence that cause this whole situation to escalate absolutely amazing. People should be fired for this kind of crap. Semper Fi



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

World Airways dropped the ball on this one initially. Blame OAK all you want, but the blame doesn't lie there - World is just as responsible for not following established guidelines for arriving charter flights. Granted, yeah - someone at OAK operations with a pair of cajones should have stepped in and rectified the situation but obviously that didn't happen - though, being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 4):
I'd find it scandalous if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!

Oh.. got ya.. So they don't deserve the same respect. OK.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 2):

Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left?

Oh, because what he said was really true based off the situation he refered too...? I've seen that several time with my own eyes. People claiming to be what they really are not..... that's all he said.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
World Airways

The article says is was North American



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community

Bingo!!!!


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3295 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community.

Thanks for the social commentary. Too bad you, like so many others, confuse opposition to this insane war with being anti-military. The people of the bay region are Americans. They have sons and daughters and brothers and sisters and moms and dads serving in the military. They love their country and they love the people who serve it. In fact, they'd likely submit that not putting our troops into the current disaster of a situation would have been the "pro-military" thing to do.

Statements like the one you made merely trumpet propaganda talking points designed to influence public policy. There is no factual foundation at all for the statement.

I realize I have opened up a can of worms now.


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
though, being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...

So the ground handling co drops the ball and suddenly this all becomes a planned occurrence perpetrated by liberals?

Going to work for the White House Press Office soon? You'd be good with that ability to spin stuff like this.  Yeah sure



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

''If this information had been shared in advance,'' she said, ''there would have been a different outcome.'' As evidence of that, Ale-Flint noted that Hilltop had made such arrangements for an earlier North American flight that same day, and the troops were permitted inside the airport.

Clearly there is no policy of preventing troops being transfered to the terminal during layovers.

It is possible that someone simply followed the rules. I notice that a lot of folk think that they should have made an exception for the USMC. This raises two questions, firstly what other exceptions are you going to make and secondly what would the TSA reaction to that.

Also it is not unknown for soldiers to bring back souvenirs like AK47's. If someone was found with an AK47 in the terminal, then the fat would be in the fire.

David


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

My former company had on an irregular basis troop flights coming through SEA en route to Hawaii. Normally customs and immigration was preformed there (on the plane) and it took us a year just to get TSA to allow us to let the passengers off the plane and into a sealed-off gate area (S-12). You have no idea how much verbal abuse I had to take from the troop commanders over this. And I symphatized completly. Did the TSA management have the guts to even come out and talk to the troops? No, they left it to the airline rep.

One Nation Under God? Possibly, but everything else is different.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 10):
They love their country and they love the people who serve it.

They do....? Then why are they trying to stop the Blue Angles from performing their show and stopped the USMC from filming a commercial there....??? That's not me talking.. those are facts and the San Francisco City Gov't talking........

[Edited 2007-10-06 08:23:01]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

If they do not want the Blue Angels to fly over their city, (I believe that it was only a proposal) then I am sure that there are other locations that would welcome a display.

Besides if a community do not agree with the Federal policy in Iraq, surely they have the right to say so. Why do many equate support for the war and subsequent operations with support of the Military.

In the UK, I do not think that the military has a right to march wherever or whenever they chose, is the US different?.

Over here a base or Regiment will be granted "the freedom of the city" by the Borough Council. This entitles them to march through the city on a given day.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

They should immediately switch the stopover point to somewhere like ONT or PSP, who would be happy as clams to have them. I'm surprised that nobody at the airline or Scott AFB got on the phone and resolved this with the local idiots. I'm also pretty confident that we'll find someone in the chain of events who was gloating that the soldiers had to stay on the a/c. In a place like San Francisco, an NAO aircraft, with its red, white and blue livery and giant American flag on the tail, must engender quite a bit of distaste among the local populace.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 15):
In the UK, I do not think that the military has a right to march wherever or whenever they chose, is the US different?

They are not marching..... only filming a commercial. Oddly they have just finished filming in Times Square NY at rush hour and were openly welcomed by the City of NY. In SFO it was a 'NO' from the cities Film Commission citing 'traffic concerns' Even more odd... the city does allow an entire section of the city to be closed off to traffic to allow the yearly S&M and Bondage Festival which promotes and displays openly ...well........you can guess

[Edited 2007-10-06 08:34:05]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineIndyWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):

Ah, so if the city has a large homosexual population, it's evil and anti-military? Dude, you are WAY off base. Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 3):
and all you are concerned about is whether Americans can express opinions that run contrary to yours.

What? They're the ones with the baseless accusations. If your reading comprehension was better, you'd realize the last sentence in my post states that it wasn't malicious on any level. In the mean time just because it happed in Northern California the right wingnuts will attack regardless of the facts in the case.

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...

Yea, nevermind that its currently Fleet Week in SF. Yea, really hating the troops there....  Yeah sure


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Ah, so if the city has a large homosexual population, it's evil and anti-military

He didn't say that, don't put words in his mouth.

But San Fransisco is a shell of what it was when it was a major navy installation.

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.

Well the workers that dropped the ball are from the community and the community reflects their values.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

EMBQA

The point that I am making is that a Military event happens at the invitation of the Borough, it is not an entitlement.

Clearly the impact on traffic can be a valid concern, however it seems that SF is more favourable to Bondage and S & M that the USMC. Whilst not my priorities, surely the borough of San Francisco has the right to set it's own priorities.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Dude, you are WAY off base. Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.

You mean the city that refused to allow the military band to film anywhere they wanted to, so they ultimately had to go onto a Federal property to do it (in the last few months)?


User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Us liberals from the Bay Area just look for ways to punish the troops! This one was pretty good, don't you think!?

Do you people seriously believe what you are saying? Sounds like it was just an error on someone's part.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

I also think that Global, which owns ATA, North American and World, should offer the affected troops free tickets from Hawaii to OAK on its scheduled services. This would generate tons of free publicity for the service among those good people of the Bay Area who were doubtless incensed by what happened to the troops.

This is also a wake-up call to the guys at Scott AFB that they need, at a high level, to get with TSA and work out a uniform policy that makes it easy for the contractors to get the troops into a terminal. They're welcome at Bangor. They would be welcome at PSP, ONT, etc. Why can't they be made welcome at SFO, SEA, and anywhere else they stop, with a minimum of red tape and no local TSA yahoo getting in the way of what should be a simple, uniform procedure.


25 Kstatepilot : If it had simply been an error, then 1 phone call would've fixed the problem. Have you been to Iraq? do you fight for your country. All these soldier
26 GDB : So, loads of threads on here all the time, about foul ups at airports, of all kinds and every size, but this one gets dipped into the plague pit of th
27 SCUMBAG : In 1970 when I returned from a tour of duty as an infantryman with the 101st Airborne division in Vietnam, we were on a Capitol airlines chartered DC-
28 AS739X : Please define your statement. How is S.F./Oakland anti-military? So funny you can say such a thing as I get ready to go up and watch the Blue Angels
29 Bennett123 : Kstatepilot ''If this information had been shared in advance,'' she said, ''there would have been a different outcome.'' As evidence of that, Ale-Flin
30 SCUMBAG : The pre boarding screening in a combat zone takes three days..... you must turn ALL your in country issued gear, including clothing. you then are move
31 Bennett123 : Mike89406/Scumbag Perhaps TSA rules need to be changed for Military flights/Charters from certain points of departure on the basis that Pre Departure
32 Post contains links FreequentFlier : I can't speak for the city's opinion of the military, I can only speak to the city councilman's positions about it, considering they are elected to r
33 Post contains links Mike89406 : Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 37): Mike89406/Scumbag Perhaps TSA rules need to be changed for Military flights/Charters from certain points of departure o
34 Post contains links UAL777 : So, what about: The Blue Angles http://www.examiner.com/a-768103~Dal...ground%20Blue%20Angels%20show.html USS Iowa http://www.breitbart.com/article.p
35 DavestanKSAN : What an f'ed up situation. Someone seriously dropped the ball here. Nobody, especially Servicemen and Women returning home from war, deserves that kin
36 AirCop : Perhaps it was just something simple like, since it was last Friday, perhaps the only gate available to handle the 767 was taken up by the Hawaiian ch
37 Post contains links AirTran737 : It was North American, not World Airways. Don't blame my company for something that we had nothing to do with. The only thing that we have in common
38 AirCop : Actually, the Boston area is more liberal than San Francisco. SF has actually elected some Conservatives as mayor... But if there wasn't any gates av
39 AirTran737 : Remote stand, and shuttle them to the terminal.
40 Aaron747 : Hopefully you're only referring to the city's status as a Navy port of call. If you were referring more generally (and ignorantly) to the overall con
41 Flynavy : Point taken. The report I read said it was a World flight. Either way, this is a moot point. The buck stops at the parent company - does it not? I ap
42 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Preposterous. You ARE kidding right? Now, not for an instant do I think the cities or populations are to blame for this issue, but your question my f
43 Post contains links Wingnut767 : Oakland Airport to U.S. Marines: You're Not Worthy This morning I received an email from the brother of a Marine in the unit referenced below. The em
44 Falcon84 : Joe McCarthy would be proud that ahis notion of "guilt by association" is alive and well today among ultra-conservatives. What a load of crap, AirTra
45 Post contains links JeffSFO : Get your facts straight. Who are "they" who are trying to stop the Blue Angels? It's one guy, Chris Daly, who is a total asshole who tried to do it a
46 102IAHexpress : I don’t live in the bay area, but I’m there a lot. And my superficial observations of the area is that it’s definitely anti-war. But considering
47 Post contains images Skidmarks : Ah, the land of the free, home of the brave - this whole thread kind of makes me cringe at the sniping and backbiting that occurs when an incident lik
48 Lobster : No, it's not the cities fault. It's the ultra left wing, yuppie, commie scum thats in that cities fault. As much as I like SF, I despise the liberali
49 Post contains images Flynavy : LOL! That's just great and made my day. Well said, er em, Lobster.
50 Falcon84 : Yes, it's the fault of all the liberals in the world that this airline dropped the ball, and screwed up, Lobster. Yes in deed, those EVIL liberals, w
51 AirCop : Well said. During Vietnam, it got to the point the soldiers were not allowed off the planes flying to Vietnam during refueling stops in Hawaii due to
52 Post contains images Halls120 : except for one term mayor Frank Jordan (92-96), you have to go back to John Shelley (1964-68) to find anyone that could be remotely called a conserva
53 L-188 : What about Berkley? Actually entertaining might be the word your looking for..........................provided you are at a great distance.
54 Post contains links Lobster : It's still the Bay Area. All though Berkley does seem to be a breeding ground for ultra left wing nut jobs. The fact that the city had to remove the
55 Post contains images AirCop : You missed one, Dianne Feinstein.. Closest thing to a conservative that San Francisco could produce.
56 L-188 : Close but not near close enough, She is a left wing gun grabbing hussy.
57 Aaron747 : For all the chest-thumping some of you don't know your conservatives very well. The Bay Area has been a home to a number of prominent conservatives, i
58 Ctbarnes : What really frosts me is the way in which the troops on this flight are being used as pawns in an ideological pissing contest. And the absurd little g
59 Post contains images Halls120 : Only in San Francisco.... Yes, in the Bay Area, DiFi is considered "conservative." Outside the Bay Area, she is as reliably liberal as they come. Tha
60 Johnboy : In my experience, these are not mutually exclusive.
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