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(Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel  
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

From CNN's Website

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- An Iranian-born German soccer player's refusal to face Israel has sparked a public outcry in Germany, with some Jewish leaders calling Tuesday for his exclusion from the national team.

Ashkan Dejagah, who moved to Germany as a child, pulled out of Friday's game in Tel Aviv -- a qualification match for the European Under-21 Championship -- citing "political reasons." ...


http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/fo...0/09/germany.boycott.ap/index.html

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I don't want to start a political storm here and get back into any A.net political heated debate, but this is about sport. I personally think that he should not be allowed to represent Germany. As a player in the national team, he's representing his country and his country's decision, NOT his personal one! If he choses not to go to Israel, that's fine, but then he has no right to be in the national team.

 twocents 


Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSandroZRH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

This has been all ove rthe news here. There were talks about banning him from the team.

User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4513 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

I agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football. How can you make such a commitment and then pick and choose what events you participate in? He should either indicate that he is fully committed to his team and to his country by doing his duty, or he should choose not to represent his nation.

A poor sport. Tell him to fulfill his duties to his team, or kick him off.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently onlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6860 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Stand up Germany! Don't wuss out.

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

This is also being discussed in the Ultimate Bundesliga Thread. And as said in there, if he really feels like that, and puts the Iranian way of thinking over the German way of thinking, he should be playing for Iran and not for Germany, period. I just hope the DfB-officials throw him out of the Under21-team and assure that he will never, ever play for out A-team.

User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football. How can you make such a commitment and then pick and choose what events you participate in? He should either indicate that he is fully committed to his team and to his country by doing his duty, or he should choose not to represent his nation.

Couldn't have put it better. If he does not want to play against Israel, he should have joined the Iranian national team.


User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 260 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Shame because sport is maybe the last refuge where such idiotic behaviour are normally banned because of the spirit accompanying the said sport.

I remember when during the football world cup (can't remember which one) Iran played the US, there was hype around it because of the symbol of this game, and this is partly what sport is about (is there not some kind of truce during the Olympics by the way?)

I see men and women (and especially now during the RWC) crying when wearing their national teams jersey during the national anthems or when seeing their flag go up like in athletics (seems like the Argentinians are the specialists at rugby, watch the next semis if you don't believe me Big grin)

And then you have this buffoon...



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
I agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football.

 checkmark 

As a German, he should also be aware of our special relationship with Israel. He either slept through history class when they were discussing not only this relationship, but also the Third Reich, or simply ignores that part of German history. Granted, many of us may hate Israeli politicians for many reasons, but that's no reason to hate those who just mind their own business and don't care about politics.

As I've said in the Ultimate Bundesliga Thread, there was once a charity game held in Israel between a combined Israeli-Palestinian team and Real Madrid. Real won the game, but it was still a celebration. Israelis and Palestinians put their cultural, political and religious differences aside to play together in a game for charity and simply have a good time, and having a once in a lifetime opportunity to play against one of Europe's giants. This proves that sports can bring people together.

When people play against Israel on the pitch, politics must be put aside and people join in for the love of the game. Love or hate the (sports) opponent, the thing that both sides have in common is that they love the game and can still be friends, have a beer after the game and celebrate together. Bottom line: Ashkan Dejagah has proven himself to be a racist, and has no place in a National Team (and should never EVER be given the chance to play in our senior team), that has become more multicultural than ever and has a sacred duty to represent Germany in the most positive way possible.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
if he really feels like that, and puts the Iranian way of thinking over the German way of thinking, he should be playing for Iran and not for Germany, period. I just hope the DfB-officials throw him out of the Under21-team and assure that he will never, ever play for out A-team.

 checkmark 

In fact, the chairwoman of the Jewish Central Council in Germany has openly called for harsh punishment for Dejagah and wants to see him permanently banned from any German National Team.

http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/fall-dejagah_aid_135270.html (German only)

If Dejagah wants to avoid Israel at all cost, then he should leave the country and play for Iran. Make no mistake: we do not tolerate racist players in our team and we won't tolerate any racism at all.


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
If Dejagah wants to avoid Israel at all cost, then he should leave the country and play for Iran. Make no mistake: we do not tolerate racist players in our team and we won't tolerate any racism at all.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently onlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Most people who replied to this thread were quick to judge Dejagah. I wonder on what grounds; there is no personal statement by him from which we can know his motives.

As far as I'm aware, he cited "personal reasons" rather than "political reasons" as a basis for his decision. Fact is, Iran has officially forbidden their citizens to compete with Israelis, in any sport. As reprehensible as this may be, many members of Dejagah's family still reside in Iran, and it could well be that he's only afraid his playing against Israel could negatively affect them.

There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it. Though this is not a pretty thing to happen, I'm not going to condemn him without being fully informed of his motives. Equally, I'm against claims (from whoever they may come) that he should be banned from the national team.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
As reprehensible as this may be, many members of Dejagah's family still reside in Iran, and it could well be that he's only afraid his playing against Israel could negatively affect them.

Then why hasn't he said so? Isn't it obvious that him having a German passport and being at the same time a citizen of his native Iran has caused a conflict of interest in which he hasn't been fully honest with the public?

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it.

No, as I've said, he hasn't been fully honest about things. He should come clean and state exactly why he doesn't want to go to Tel Aviv. He has to remember that both Germany and Israel are UEFA teams. So, if the draw says that Germany has to play against Israel on these dates, regardless of whether it's a Euro or World Cup qualifier, Euro or World Cup final round tournament, or if Germany is to play a friendly match against them, he has to be there when nominated unless he's injured or there is a true family emergency. What he stated as personal reasons has become nothing but a blanket excuse due to him being from Iran, and he could have easily refuted any accusations of being a racist by coming clean. He didn't, he just excused himself and should consider himself guilty for having allowed these accusations to take shape.


User currently offlineAviationmaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Quote:
I have more Iranian than German blood in my veins. I am doing it out of respect. After all, my parents are Iranian

If he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins, then he should be expelled from the German team altogether and his passport revoked for good. To piss him off, Jogi Löw should bring Dejagah on in the 89th minute in Germany's next match, and then leave this ass off the team for good ( - meaning he would not even be able to play for Iran...).


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Tell him to go back and play for Iran, then. Loser.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
If he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins, then he should be expelled from the German team altogether and his passport revoked for good.

That is not really the problem. The problem is that he's making a big deal out of this and personally blows this out of proportion. Now, I once saw on the news about an Iranian who has lived in Costa Rica for decades and is a very close friend of an Israeli. Both of their shops are close to each other, but there is absolutely no hate between the two. Just the usual sales competition between their own businesses and a friendly relationship in private life. Why can't this be possible?

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
To piss him off, Jogi Löw should bring Dejagah on in the 89th minute in Germany's next match, and then leave this ass off the team for good ( - meaning he would not even be able to play for Iran...).

Meh, I'm not so convinced about that, though the base idea to nominate him just to screw his future isn't something I'd disapprove in this case. If he has to be punished, then he should at least be stripped of his passport and be required to get a permanent residence visa if he wants to stay. Like I said, we must show zero-tolerance towards racists.

Maybe we should require people who become naturalised German citizens to take some kind of oath of allegiance, making them even deeper commited to Germany and our ideals of freedom, democracy and diversity, like the US does with their future naturalised US citizens.


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Really, what has football to do with politics? This is more than ridiculous! And what a ridiculous government is the Iranian one? They don't allow their citizens to play a game vs. Israel?  Yeah sure Sad that utter retards like Ahmadinejad abuse a game like football (and sports in general) to spray their bullshit.  Angry

When Dejagah would have class, he would send his Iranian passport back to the Iranian embassy and fly (with his German passport) to Israel to play football there!

Patrick


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it. Though this is not a pretty thing to happen, I'm not going to condemn him without being fully informed of his motives. Equally, I'm against claims (from whoever they may come) that he should be banned from the national team.

Let's not forget that playing soccer is HIS JOB. If he can't attend games than he shouldn't play for the team. If he was a pilot for Lufthansa or some other company the flies to Israel and would've said "Sorry, I can't go there" the company will fire him.


When I was hired to do my job, it was understood that I need to travel to the USA. If I can't or won't do it, my company will find someone who will.

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
Quote:
I have more Iranian than German blood in my veins. I am doing it out of respect. After all, my parents are Iranian

Than why is he in Germany? To take advantage of the well paid environment there? To take advantage of a free country that welcomes him there and treats him as their own, while he's being racist? I think he should go back home where his "blood" belongs.

When I moved to Canada and accepted to be a Canadian citizen, I accepted that... WITH ALL ITS RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineAviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

My point is that someone who openly states that he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins should not be a German citizen at all - let alone play for Germany.

In the end, this whole drama will only show what a complete tool he is. The joke is on him, not on anyone else.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Couldn't Germany avoid all this hassle and call German-born players? There's an uproar every time a foreign born player does this or that, and that happens all around the world. The answer? Call native players. France could use this piece of advice also.

User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

You can the dog out of the fight, but not the fight out of the dog.

User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2357 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

One of the whole reasons behind international sporting events whether it is the Olympics, World Cup, etc... is to bring nations together and forgetting about the politics. This guy is totally missing the point. Why did he join the German national team anyways? Didn't it dawn on him that eventually Germany may have to play a country that is enemies with Iran? This guy should be banned from playing on the German team. If he is so loyal to Iran, why isn't he there representing them?


"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 16):
My point is that someone who openly states that he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins should not be a German citizen at all - let alone play for Germany.

 redflag  You can be naturalized in Germany aka Einbürgerung.

The only saving grace this guy might have is if he would somehow be banned from Iran and thus couldn't visit family. Other than that, he's an ass.


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

BTW, it's football, not soccer  Wink


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
When Dejagah would have class, he would send his Iranian passport back to the Iranian embassy and fly (with his German passport) to Israel to play football there!

 checkmark 

Or that he surrenders his German passport and puts a permanent end to this "conflict of interests".


User currently offlineAviationmaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 20):
You can be naturalized in Germany aka Einbürgerung.

I know what Einbürgerung is; we have the same process in Switzerland - besides, it was not what I was trying to point out.

My point is, if Dejagah claims to have more Iranian blood in his veins than German, then what is he doing in Germany? Why does he bother having German citizenship at all?

Why would somebody bother to go through the time consuming and pricey process of an Einbürgerung, when said person does not even feel like a citizen of that country? Me thinks it's all just for the benefits.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
Then why hasn't he said so? Isn't it obvious that him having a German passport and being at the same time a citizen of his native Iran has caused a conflict of interest in which he hasn't been fully honest with the public?

How do you know what he has said to the DFB? You and most of the other guys in this thread judge him on the basis of a DFB press release.

A Rara already said Dejagah fears for the life of his family members who still live in Iran. It's sad that Iran forbids its citizens to attend sport events against Israel and it is also sad that they hold family members responsible.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
Really, what has football to do with politics?

Quite a lot.

pelican


25 LTU932 : Which reinforces my proposal for an oath of allegiance when the immigrant officially becomes a citizen.
26 JGPH1A : Why is this man not allowed to abide by his political beliefs and not play in Israel ? It's like the England cricketers refusing to play in Zimbabwe,
27 Pelican : Because he represents Germany. Therefore he is not just a German citizen. Of course it is his right to refuse to play for whatever reason. But the DF
28 Windshear : I heard that his reason for refusing, was that he was afraid of what might happen to him. Ergo he is afraid that politics will affect his safety, not
29 Pelican : Which is exactly what he fears... for his family in Iran pelican
30 Windshear : Perhaps this would be the most positive conclusion. Is this what he has said, or is it a guess? Boaz.
31 Rara : It's a guess, but it's the most likely possibility in my view. Obviously, he isn't going to run around saying "I'm not playing in Israel, because the
32 AviationMaster : What makes the situation so precarious is that this story reached the media in the first place. If security is indeed the reason, then it would have b
33 AviationMaster : What makes the situation so precarious is that this story reached the media in the first place - meaning that probably half Iran knows by now about De
34 MD11Engineer : Then he should not have a German citizenship. Either he stands to the constitution or not. Ok, I understand that the Iranians don't just release some
35 ME AVN FAN : - it is no longer about sport apparently. Any member of a national sports team should have the chance to bail out under embarassing circumstances, fo
36 YOWza : Hansa Rostock included? Childish statement. If everybody who pulled a retard move had their passport revoked most people would be stuck in their own
37 Flighty : Would an Israeli go to visit Iran? I really doubt it! The two countries are at war right now. A death-match. Get over it, soccer is not above that.
38 Windshear : Even this term legitimizes accusation !! I really do think he has his head up his ass, if he meant the things which he said, but again there could be
39 Post contains images Windshear : Whoa what an attitude! Boaz.
40 Flighty : It is perfectly reasonable to hate Israel and love the Jewish people. Many people feel that way... it's politics, not racism, and it's a comment on t
41 ME AVN FAN : that sounds good, but is not realistic fairly often. To allow absentism of national players faced with having to play either against the national tea
42 BigTom : Unfortunately politics is a part of sport, eg the Olympic tit-for-tat boycotts etc. I once remember the Indian squash team pulled out of an Asian-leve
43 ME AVN FAN : - Whatever the consequences for him on that side, he possibly has other possible consequences in his mind. Regrettable that this thing ever became pu
44 LTU932 : No, but it's not just because they're at war. It's because Iran is in the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) while Israel, even though the country is
45 Racko : Why don't we all just wait until HE gives a statement about it and ignore the yellow press blahblah? He DID talk quietly to the coach of the team, and
46 AM744 : Probably. It would be nicer if new citizens truly believed in and loved the new host country. Can't an Iranian surrender his original citizenship? Wo
47 Fumanchewd : Many people? How many? I'm sure that there are quite a few, but a majority of people who hate Israel do hate the Jewish people. Overall its pretty im
48 Post contains images OHLHD : I wish that Iran meets Israel at a WorldCup...... I am sure there are lots of people who wish that but Germany is multi-cultural. For everyone workin
49 CPH-R : Is Iran one of the countries that doesn't allow people into their country if they have a Iranian stamp in the passport? I know that business traveller
50 LTU932 : [rant]Tell that to the girl, whom I accused of being racist for saying that Germany is shit and it's no longer worth for her to even bother learning
51 Post contains images OHLHD : I guess you mean Israeli stamp. Yes they are one of these countries.
52 Post contains images OHLHD : Definitely, but nobody will care. I won´t at least. If it is a damn bad ass game => both can go to hell.
53 ME AVN FAN : he CAN but A) this move will simply be ignored by the Iranian authorities and B) his family will still be Iranian citizens and C) his wider family pr
54 ME AVN FAN : Whom says that he does not love Germany ? you jump to weird conclusions -
55 Thorben : Dejagah is a strange fellow anyway, comes from a poorer place of Berlin, thinks he is a gangster, has had trouble with a car accident he was involved
56 ME AVN FAN : is this in the German constitution ? I find it ok if you say that somebody of German citizenship can be expected to accept the right of Israel to exi
57 Cedars747 : Try to put it the opposite way,I am sure an Israeli player would do the same Alex!!!
58 Rara : I don't think so - but then again an Israeli player wouldn't have to fear persecution of his family if he didn't.
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