Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Conscientious Objector Soldier  
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071016/ts_nm/usa_soldier_beliefs_dc

What say you? He claims that he cannot kill someone because of his Christian faith. How does a Conscientious Objector status actually work?


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4870 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

This is ridiculous. If he's that devout why the hell did he join the military.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
This is ridiculous. If he's that devout why the hell did he join the military.

Was he in the guard or full fledged army?



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

Wow. What a freakin' asshole.

He had no problem taking ~$250,000 from US taxpayers, by enjoying an education from one of the nation's most competitive colleges. He had no problem making his way up chain to O-3, and enjoying the benefits that come with the rank.

And NOW he's finding himself unable to fulfill his duties? He certainly took the Army for all that it was worth. And the final slap is the honorable discharge he's be rewarded. Seems to me that an honorable discharge is something to be earned... not given away to a CPT who reneged on his deal, and abandoned the soldiers under his command.  Yeah sure

-UH60


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 2):

Was he in the guard or full fledged army?

As an USMA graduate, he would have been an active duty soldier.

-UH60


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
If he's that devout why the hell did he join the military.

The link states that the soldier developed these beliefs after he joined the military, upon further study of his faith.

As far as how CO status works - you basically have to prove to the military that your personal moral/religious beliefs preclude you from fighting in war of any kind. Then they will put you into one of two categories, depending on whether or not you are OK with serving in a non-combat military position. The two key points here are that a) you have to object to fighting in all military action, not just some, and b) the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate what you believe. This is especially true if you become a CO after entering the military, as they are not generally willing to invest a bunch of money into training you only for you to change your mind. There are cases where the military has denied CO status and ordered soldiers to continue fighting against their beliefs, leading the soldier to refuse orders and face imprisonment rather than continued service.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Wow. What a freakin' asshole.

On the other hand, UH60, would you want to serve under an officer who felt that every time he pulled the trigger, he was violating the basic tenets of his religion? I understand that you don't think he has earned any sort of honorable discharge, but at the same time, I don't think he would deserve a dishonorable discharge simply for standing up for his personal convictions. To quote the Wikipedia entry on the subject (not an authoritative source, I know):

"For instance, a person rendered physically or psychologically incapable of performing his or her assigned duties will normally have his service characterized as honorable, regardless of whether the condition or disability was incurred in the line of duty, provided he or she otherwise exceeded standards."

One could argue that COs are psychologically incapable of performing assigned duties.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 6):
One could argue that COs are psychologically incapable of performing assigned duties.

That's a fact.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
He had no problem taking ~$250,000 from US taxpayers, by enjoying an education from one of the nation's most competitive colleges. He had no problem making his way up chain to O-3, and enjoying the benefits that come with the rank.

I don't understand why they couldn't find a desk job somewhere for him until he reached his mandatory service date. Send him to Indy and let him preside over military records or some such duty. I agree that giving him an honorable discharge is a little much. He should have gotten a general discharge at best.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1620 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 6):
I understand that you don't think he has earned any sort of honorable discharge, but at the same time, I don't think he would deserve a dishonorable discharge simply for standing up for his personal convictions.

Well let me be the first to tell you that there are more types of discharges beyond honorable and dishonorable.

Quote:
Honorable Discharge

To receive an honorable discharge, you must have received a rating from good to excellent for your service to the Navy. Even though you only qualify for a general discharge, you may receive an honorable discharge under two circumstances. 1. When you are being separated because of a disability incurred in the line of duty 2. When you receive any awards for gallantry in action, heroism, or other meritorious service .

General Discharge

You receive a general discharge when you separate from the service, under honorable conditions, without a sufficiently meritorious military record to deserve an honorable discharge.

Other Than Honorable Discharge

You receive an other than honorable discharge for misconduct or security reasons.

Bad Conduct Discharge

You receive a bad conduct discharge (BCD) when you separate from the service under conditions other than honorable. You receive a bad conduct discharge only by an approved sentence of a general or a special court-martial.

Dishonorable Discharge

You receive a dishonorable discharge (DD) when you separate from the service under dishonorable conditions. You may receive a dishonorable discharge only by a general court-martial and as appropriate for serious offenses calling for dishonorable separation as part of the punishment.

He does not deserve an honorable discharge. He took a lot from the military, and when military life no longer suits him... he decides to up and go. That is undeserving of any honorable recognition.

-UH60


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 9):
Well let me be the first to tell you that there are more types of discharges beyond honorable and dishonorable.

And this is why it's a good thing to have someone who knows what they're talking about involved in the thread. Looking at that list, the honorable discharge does seem a little odd. At the same time, I don't think you should minimize the decision he made. Think about the bonds you feel to your fellow soldiers, UH60. I'd imagine that this man felt the same way toward his fellow troops, and that he faced a difficult internal struggle between loyalty to his faith on one hand and his military responsibilities on the other. From what I have read about the CO process, I doubt the military would have discharged him if he had not done a very thorough job of proving that he had had a genuine change of heart.

By the way, my views on the issue are colored by the fact that if I were drafted, I would have to register as a conscientious objector myself.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
If he's that devout why the hell did he join the military.

Looks like he developed those beliefs later

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 8):
I agree that giving him an honorable discharge is a little much. He should have gotten a general discharge at best.

The problem is that having less than an honorable discharge seems to mark people for the rest of their life. I think guidelines should be drawn up not allowing employers, schools, etc. to use a general discharge as a detrimental qualification.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 9):

He does not deserve an honorable discharge. He took a lot from the military, and when military life no longer suits him... he decides to up and go.

Well, I would agree if he had just up and gone, but it appears he has developed some pretty serious religious beliefs that have changed his status. That he admitted to them as opposed to putting others in the questionable situation of having a commanding officer who can't take up arms seems to have been the right thing to do.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2213 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

CO should stand for Cop-Out. Give him a very dead-end desk job until his time is up.


UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

I don't see where all the outrage at the guy is coming from.

He presented the beliefs he is entitled to hold, the Army accepted them and let him go. I certainly wouldn't want that guy next to me if we were being attacked and I would imagine every soldier in Iraq would feel the same. If you're going to be pissed at anyone/anything, it should be at the Army.


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 12):
CO should stand for Cop-Out. Give him a very dead-end desk job until his time is up.

Last I checked, punishing people for their religious beliefs is unconstitutional.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
The problem is that having less than an honorable discharge seems to mark people for the rest of their life. I think guidelines should be drawn up not allowing employers, schools, etc. to use a general discharge as a detrimental qualification.

Considering he is in the seminary studying to be a minister, a general discharge would not seem to be an issue in this case.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1592 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 10):
Think about the bonds you feel to your fellow soldiers, UH60. I'd imagine that this man felt the same way toward his fellow troops, and that he faced a difficult internal struggle between loyalty to his faith on one hand and his military responsibilities on the other.

The way I see it... he reaped A LOT of benefits from the US Army and the US taxpayers. And now that's going to be redeployed, he objects and asks to be released. It seems like an unfair trade. The whole deal with serving in the military is "I'll scratch your back, and you scratch mine." The military will provide you with a ton of benefits - FREE benefits - that a person would probably not get as a civilian. In return, they expect you to serve out your commitment. He's not doing that. He's taking a lot, but not giving back in return.

I don't mind him getting released from service, and I don't object to the whole premise of a conscientious objector. However, I do object to him getting an honorable discharge. He is not fulfilling the obligation he agreed to, and is not fairly returning his service in return for benefits reaped. Give him a general discharge and let him go.

-UH60


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 15):
Considering he is in the seminary studying to be a minister, a general discharge would not seem to be an issue in this case.

Perhaps, but applications for various things still ask about less than honorable discharges.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 16):

The way I see it... he reaped A LOT of benefits from the US Army and the US taxpayers.

Well, he did give a lot back. How much more would a private contractor have made in his job?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 12):
CO should stand for Cop-Out. Give him a very dead-end desk job until his time is up.

I disagree. I don't want a commander who is not fully committed to his duty. And I certainly don't want a battle buddy who hesitates at the critical moment of danger!

We need people who are committed to serving. We really don't have the time to be dicking around with people who don't. Cut them loose and don't look back. HOWEVER, we shouldn't be rewarding them with the privilege of an honorable discharge.

-UH60


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Well, he did give a lot back.

Says the guy who's never served.

The military, and especially individual units, are structured around the assumption that commanders are going to be available for a least x amount of years. We gave him a quarter million dollar education. He received MOS specific training, he received captain career course schooling, and as a West Pointer he most likely received war fighter specific training like Airborne/Air Assault/Ranger/etc. I don't know about him specifically, but the vast majority of captains take advantage of the fact that the Army will pay for your masters. And he'll also be able to take advantage of all post-service programs available to soldiers who were honorably discharged.

All he had to do was fulfill a contractual obligation of 6 years. He's not completing that agreement, thus he shouldn't get an HD.

-UH60


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 8):
I don't understand why they couldn't find a desk job somewhere for him until he reached his mandatory service date. Send him to Indy and let him preside over military records or some such duty. I agree that giving him an honorable discharge is a little much. He should have gotten a general discharge at best.

Not often we agree, but in this case you nailed it. I have no issues with him claiming conscientious objector status, but considering what he's been provided by the military, at the least he could have finished serving out his commitment in a non-combat role.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2213 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
I don't want a commander who is not fully committed to his duty.

They have to have something like a toilet paper procurement desk job, where he wouldn't do too much damage.


Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
And I certainly don't want a battle buddy who hesitates at the critical moment of danger!

Totally agree.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
We need people who are committed to serving.

It is just a few bad apples here and there, just the fact when they have to do what is part of their duty, combat, all of a sudden they do not want to go, really irks me. It is as though they ride for free but when it is time to pay the piper, they find CO status.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
We really don't have the time to be dicking around with people who don't. Cut them loose and don't look back. HOWEVER, we shouldn't be rewarding them with the privilege of an honorable discharge.

Agreed.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 14):
Last I checked, punishing people for their religious beliefs is unconstitutional.

How is that punishment ? Don't know much about the military eh ? All those desk jobs in the military are punishment then ? Wow, The Pentagon must be a big punishment facility then in someones' opinion. A lot of things change when you enter the military, it is not like it is in civilian or college life.



UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 19):

Says the guy who's never served.

And there is a reason for that. Anyway, I am one of the taxpayers who's money was spent on him, and I still wonder what it would have cost to have a mercenary in his job.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

"In following Jesus' example, I could not have fired my weapon at another human being, even if he were shooting at me," said Brown, who plans to continue seminary classes he began by correspondence while in Iraq.

Let's see where he is in five years....  Yeah sure

Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 2):
Was he in the guard or full fledged army?

What does that matter?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Looks like he developed those beliefs later

Could they be beliefs of convenience perhaps?

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 14):
Last I checked, punishing people for their religious beliefs is unconstitutional.

True - but like I said above - are these only beliefs of convenience?


User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 2):
Was he in the guard or full fledged army?

What does it matter? Either one is covered by the same UCMJ. The only difference is the Oath of Enlistment in that Guard soldiers swear to the Governor and Regular Army to the Pres. Either way, this guys a fuckhead.  Angry



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Wow. What a freakin' asshole.

He had no problem taking ~$250,000 from US taxpayers, by enjoying an education from one of the nation's most competitive colleges. He had no problem making his way up chain to O-3, and enjoying the benefits that come with the rank.

And NOW he's finding himself unable to fulfill his duties? He certainly took the Army for all that it was worth. And the final slap is the honorable discharge he's be rewarded. Seems to me that an honorable discharge is something to be earned... not given away to a CPT who reneged on his deal, and abandoned the soldiers under his command

EXACTLY!!


If this guy was so into his religion, why didn't be become a chaplain then? He won't be required to carry weapons then, can still serve his god, and most importantly, his country. This guy is a MAJOR jackass and I'm sure glad I was not under his command.


25 N1120A : If they were, I doubt the Army would have backed down.
26 ORFflyer : He must have presented his case well.
27 Halls120 : Agreed. You want to be a CO, fine, but to say his service was honorable is a travesty. A general discharge is not dishonorable or other than honorabl
28 N1120A : If he truly could no longer make that commitment, it isn't the right thing.
29 Halls120 : Then he doesn't deserve an HONORABLE discharge.
30 HuskyAviation : There is no mechanism to convert the price of his education into a loan which he has to pay back if he is unwilling to fulfill his duties (aside from
31 Post contains images Allstarflyer : People don't join the military to cut a check, pose in a uni, beef up the resume and/or simulate combat. Military service is a distinction that sets
32 LAXspotter : Are there any people who are opposed to Conscientious Objectors? Not this particular "shady" one.
33 Lobster : TOTALLY. We are an ALL VOLUNTEER force today. They know damn well that the basic principal of serving in the military is fighting wars. We fight wars
34 UH60FtRucker : Well it really all depends on what his specific MOS was, what year he was in his contractual obligation, and what his primary duty was to his unit. W
35 Yellowstone : A desk job is not in itself punishment. But when you phrase it as you are implying that he will be denied any sort of job advancement opportunity bec
36 Lobster : Care to read the post to which I applied too? And even if his beliefs developed when he was "in", that still doesn't deserve an honorable discharge.
37 CALTECH : So it is inconstitutional to have any dead end desk jobs as implied by you, what a marvelous new set of lawsuits that could be filed. It is not about
38 Post contains images Mir : There are plenty of ways he could have fulfilled his commitment to the Army (and to the taxpayers that paid for his education) without having to fire
39 N1120A : Why would it cost $62,500 a year? Are you including room, board, salary, etc.? Was he a captain the whole time?
40 MD11Engineer : Being a conscientious objector doesn't mean that a person is a coward. In WW2 e.g. conscientious objectors served often in non-combatant positions, f
41 BN747 : Not really, it seems that no one gives a crap in the civilian world. Back in the day of 'I wanna job with a company where I can retire in 20 years'..
42 Yellowstone : No, what I'm saying is that it's probably illegal to force someone to take a less desirable job because of their religious views. There are plenty of
43 BN747 : Basically, if man or woman, can reach a conclusion down the line .. their 'this marital commitment' isn't for them and divorce or seperate from it (u
44 RJdxer : Yes he is. The cost to the taxpayer to put a person through West Point is 250k for four years. The 62.5k is the yearly averge of those four years. No
45 David L : It probably is but that's not what's being suggested. It's not about his religious views, it's about the fact that he can't perform the role(s) they
46 UH60FtRucker : I included everything. The cost of a USMA education is priced out to be $250,000 for four years. I simply divided it by 4 years to give an estimate o
47 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : It's actually based on even number of years in service. So no 5yr mark on the pay charts! Small correction. But you're general point was correct. As
48 YOWza : Call me cynical but I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one. If he attended USMA the type of surroundings he would have been in are not exactl
49 RFields5421 : So some guy has earned 9 months in the states at a desk job after 15 months in Iraq - and you want to take that away from him and send him back so th
50 RJdxer : How many men are in Leavenworth with dishonorable discharges awaiting them when they are released that served 3+ years honorably? I'm not suggesting
51 RFields5421 : Not relevant to the the situation here. Those men were convicted of crimes. At some point during their time of service - they stopped serving honorab
52 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : 15months? Who said anything about 15 months? Where did you get that number from? So has 82% of current Army personnel. This does not give a person ca
53 RJdxer : Nor did I say so. The comparison is that before the men in Leavenworth committed their crimes, they were serving honorably as was this captain. It is
54 Redngold : "Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004 and began to study scripture an
55 Slider : Amen to this and all your posts in this thread. I totally agree. Toothbrush. Toilets. Just sayin. Wow. There are so many things I could say to this,
56 RFields5421 : Was not in response to the definition - to the selective interpretation of them by another person. It would be extremely unusual for you to not get a
57 Post contains links RFields5421 : This is a horrid propaganda site filled with BS but an important number: 52.58 % approved 44.13 % denied That's approximately 56 per year - so about o
58 Post contains links RFields5421 : Here is another document you should checkout if you want to know how "easy" it is to get out as a CO http://www.drum.army.mil/sites/tenan...ientious_O
59 UH60FtRucker : You didn't read what I said. If I choose to leave, I would not be given an honorable discharge. I'm not talking about being wounded or medically disa
60 RFields5421 : Unfortunately, an honorable discharge has never been anything except "I didn't do anything stupid". I would certainly understand and support upping t
61 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Wow. Talk about a slap in the face to a lot of men and women who served with honor! "Never been anything except"??? That's beyond being just a stupid
62 LTBEWR : The situation this now former US Army officer is very difficult to discuss as it presents very controversial issues. Many here believed that he should
63 Wingnut767 : Bullseye. You are right on the money with all of your posts. What else can we add. Good Job
64 RFields5421 : The Honorable Discharge was designed to be easily given for completing the basic standards of military service. It was never specified for a full ter
65 UH60FtRucker : I think you've been unjustly rude and disrespectful towards me. I am no longer going to debate this with you. -UH60
66 Post contains links and images RFields5421 : Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 61): What the hell are you talking about??? Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 65): I think you've been unjustly rude and disres
67 RFields5421 : And let me be clear on this: I recommend you discuss this with a chaplain - to learn about the criteria of becoming a CO and being approved for separ
68 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : ?????? ...Well you're not. You made that much clear! You said honorable discharges were nothing more than "I didn't do anything stupid" awards. I sai
69 RFields5421 : With all respect Sir, you are wrong. You are making a value judgement on a former fellow officer, fellow soldier without complete information. You are
70 Post contains images BN747 : That's EXACTLY what it is...in the civilian world! No one gives a rats ass! I carries about as much weight as a boys scout merit badge. Or a bowling
71 RFields5421 : By the same thing - do you mean ask separation based upon becoming a CO? My experience, again dated quite a few years, is that people in aviation hav
72 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Well there we go. I believe there is value in items beyond monetary worth. And I don't agree that an honorable discharge is worthless. The terms you
73 BN747 : No need.. I still have my very own after 4 years- Absolutely there should be some cost-benefit analysis done and him handed some type of bill. Perhap
74 RFields5421 : As I noted above - and it got lost in the thread. It is the policy of the US government/ military services - to demand repayment of some or all of th
75 UH60FtRucker : It's still just an opinion! I don't agree with someone taking a lot (including a very expensive degree and career/leadership training ), not fulfilli
76 RJdxer : Incorrect. From the report.... Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004
77 Allstarflyer : Part of his service included having to engage the enemy - that was his job description. It can't be more black and white. His own words disagree with
78 Halls120 : I have an idea why people are threatened by you having this particular opinion. These days, taking personal responsibility for one's actions isn't fa
79 Post contains links and images ANCFlyer : Absolutely irrelevent. 100% irrelevent. Guard, Reserve, Reguarl Force - you swear an oath. And you should check the data, ALL US forces, Guard, Reser
80 RFields5421 : I don't think you can equate the decision to study scripture with starting a plan to get out of the military, though I'm sure it does happen in some
81 RFields5421 : I've request that all my posts on this thread be removed. If I've offended anyone personally - I'm sorry - especially those currently serving on activ
82 RJdxer : I don't see how you can't. The story is quite clear that he did not make his decision until after he started studying scripture. Here you are the one
83 CALTECH : A Honorable Discharge means everything to those of us who served proudly in the United States Military. Sure, to some it meant we just didn't screw up
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas posted Sat Aug 25 2007 18:34:03 by Falcon84
US Soldier Sentenced 110yrs In Iraqi Rape/murder posted Sun Aug 5 2007 10:09:07 by Jmc1975
Protester Arrested At Soldier's Funeral posted Thu Jun 7 2007 04:25:07 by Cadet985
Ft. Lewis To Consolidate Soldier Memorials posted Fri Jun 1 2007 02:06:22 by AeroWesty
The Lost Soldier. posted Thu May 17 2007 10:28:28 by HAWK21M
Our Town Loses First Soldier In Iraq posted Thu May 3 2007 05:12:30 by Falcon84
US Army Crushes Soldier Blogging From War Zones posted Wed May 2 2007 19:41:16 by UH60FtRucker
Canadian Soldier Charged With Manslaughter posted Mon Mar 12 2007 21:41:26 by SKYSERVICE_330
Crazy! Bullet Proof Glass Saves Soldier's Life posted Wed Jan 17 2007 23:21:46 by Chi-town
Public Storage Sells Soldier's Belongings: posted Wed Jan 10 2007 19:31:49 by S12PPL