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Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?  
User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

I saw this the other day. WOW is all I have to say.

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp
http://imdb.com/title/tt0486358/


The people in this movie are so out there, its actually scary to think. I just love how they exploit the children too. The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six. Come on!

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
The people in this movie are so out there, its actually scary to think. I just love how they exploit the children too. The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six. Come on!

Sad things is the kid's in the movie, get taught the "Science" of creationism, and are told that Climate Change is not an issue whatsoever. Sadly, these kids are being taught to change America through politics into a country of Christian Morals and Values, building the next evangelizing politicians who will be swayed by their convictions of what "God Wants".



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith. To me, that's child abuse.

User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2):
The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith. To me, that's child abuse

sadly that how it is for most kids who have a "religious" upbringing.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Seen and it's quite scary, now maybe a little drummed up for the documentary itself, but it still is pretty scary overall.

User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

gotta watch it, wow
aint no torrents around when you need them ;(



10=2
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

I saw it about 2 months ago... You know what's funny- the more I think about it, the more I think that the filmmakers were sympathetic or "pro-these fundamentalists", you know?

It almost presents the situation as these cute little kids who REALLY believe in God.

Maybe I'm the only one who noticed...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3077 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

evangelical christianity in jesus camp is a cult...I have no idea why it is refused to be called that....

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineCJAContinental From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoted from Wikipedia:

Jesus Camp is a documentary about the "Kids On Fire School of Ministry," a pentecostal summer camp located just outside Devils Lake

Can anyone else see the irony: Jesus camp, kids on fire, devils lake. They could never have chosen a more appropriate name near a more appropriate location.  rotfl 



Work Hard/Fly Right.
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

I haven't much seen what "Jesus Camp" is all about, but it sounds sketchy at best. It sounds like Focus on the Family, a group with generally good intentions among evangelicals denounces the director's views on methods of indoctrination. Perhaps there's an agenda among the producers.  scratchchin .

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2):
The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith.

Apart from this camp, what, in your opinion, is the parents role in involving children (their own, particularly) in matters of faith?


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1854 times:

I watched it. Based on what I had heard before I watched it, I was actually not very shocked. It looked like a boot camp for younger kids. I don't particularly like the boot camp concept especially when applied to youth under the age of 12.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six.

Well, I have seen children at age 4 who can describe their faith and beliefs in very specific terms, even when their parents or other influential people are not around. I believe that God can touch a person at any time in his/her life. This is not to say that such faith is immediately mature and unchangeable, though; even Mother Teresa doubted and learned about her faith.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 10):
even Mother Teresa doubted and learned about her faith.

and she doubted till her end.....



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1833 times:

Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

Quite frankly, I find that insulting.


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers

quite frankly, that is an accurate statement, further reading for those who dont believe in that statement should read Christopher Hitchens "god is not great"



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 14):

Ah, the eye of the beholder...

The best leaders are those who wish no power for themselves.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1762 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):

You obviously haven't looked at the whole picture. There are plenty of religious communities (churches, charities, etc.) that have good intentions and are doing a lot of good in this world. Don't be blinded by the fundamentalist minorities of various religions. That line of thinking obscures your objectivity.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 15):

 checkmark 



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

Correct

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 13):
Quite frankly, I find that insulting.

As you probably should, although that doesn't make his statement incorrect. Just depends on what side of the fence you sit. I know plenty of people who finally, "saw the light" and discarded religion. They tend to feel a bit regretful for falling for the brainwashing techniques of organised religion. I guess those who are yet to "see the light" would find those analogies quite insulting.

I personally like the idea of "insulting" the world back to reality. Religion is probably the single biggest barrier to peace, prosperity, progress, family, and human development in the world. The less influence it has on society, the better


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

The answer is countless.


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 16):
You obviously haven't looked at the whole picture. There are plenty of religious communities (churches, charities, etc.) that have good intentions and are doing a lot of good in this world. Don't be blinded by the fundamentalist minorities of various religions. That line of thinking obscures your objectivity.

I think any community that teaches it's followers to act with blind faith, not use sound reasoning, and relinquish what comes naturally to a "higher power" is quite evil. That pretty much covers all religion. To teach a child to "just believe because we say so" is just awful.

And as far as all the good work that religion organises, (charities, etc), guess what? Non religious people give to charities too, and can be quite community spirited. You don't need religion to be a good person/society. Many people seem to manage this without religion


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1736 times:

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 17):
They tend to feel a bit regretful for falling for the brainwashing techniques of organised religion.

So everyone who subscribes to an organized religion has been brainwashed? Can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been brainwashed, nor forced to "just believe because we say so."

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 17):
I guess those who are yet to "see the light" would find those analogies quite insulting.

 Yeah sure

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

The answer is countless.

No one is disputing that evil things have been done supposedly in the name of God. Every group has its bad apples.


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 20):
So everyone who subscribes to an organized religion has been brainwashed? Can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been brainwashed, nor forced to "just believe because we say so."

No one who has been brainwashed thinks they've been brainwashed. That's how brainwashing works!


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):
No one who has been brainwashed thinks they've been brainwashed. That's how brainwashing works!

Look, you don't like organized religion, I get it. But to insult someone (or a group) just because you don't hold the same views is insulting.

BTW: I don't think that an individual who has been brainwashed would regularly reevaluate their position, values, faith, etc. to make sure they were on the right path.


User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):

How convenient.

Some of us are well educated and have taken psychology, sociology, and other such courses and know that we haven't been brainwashed.

How about this...

You don't know why I know that I'm not brainwashed because you aren't me. If you aren't me, you don't know how I know that I haven't been brainwashed. That's how it works.

How dang diddly convenient.  Smile


User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 22):
Look, you don't like organized religion, I get it. But to insult someone (or a group) just because you don't hold the same views is insulting.

I didn't insult anyone because I don't hold the same views. I applaud many different viewpoints. The reason I speak ill of religion has nothing to do with the fact that I think it is different. It's to do with the fact that I think it is destructive to society.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 22):
BTW: I don't think that an individual who has been brainwashed would regularly reevaluate their position, values, faith, etc. to make sure they were on the right path.

Truly rational re-evaluation is only really possible with the correct perspective. Religion can distort that.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 23):
You don't know why I know that I'm not brainwashed because you aren't me. If you aren't me, you don't know how I know that I haven't been brainwashed. That's how it works.

No I don't, but I do know that religion is a process of brainwashing, and therefore draw the conclusion that anyone following such religion has been successfully brainwashed. With this logic, (simplistic as it may sound) I guess I don't need to know the individual followers to make this judgement. The mere fact that they are followers confirms this for me.


25 Allstarflyer : I've seen it in bookstores and I have a close relative who (I believe) who recommends it. I plan to check it out. I also hope this close relative rea
26 Post contains images Halcyon : I can understand where you are coming from. That's great for me. However, with respect, you really need to find a different argument or a better way
27 KiwiinOz : This phenomenon, whilst terrible, is generally isolated minorities and not my primary concern with religion. Extremists, fundamentalists, (and, as yo
28 Luv2fly : Well I for one agree with the above statement.
29 Redngold : You're discounting the faith of over 70% of the world's population. Jesus also said in many ways that God rejoices over each and every single person
30 Copaair737 : It has nothing to do with being spiritual, or believing in a deity. It has to do with the corruption that is organized religion. You, you for one see
31 Post contains images Luv2fly : In my dealings I always find the true zealots are the ones who if you do not see things there way then you are wrong, wrong and dare i say it WRONG!
32 Post contains images TheCol : That pretty much sums it up. On the contrary, its pretty much black and white for most members participating in this thread.
33 Aa757first : How many hungry people were fed last year because of organized religion? At least 2.3 million, since thats how many Catholic Charities USA fed. You'r
34 JGPH1A : It is perfectly possible to be charitable and give of yourself without dragging religion and its attendant baggage into the equation. Religion is a h
35 CastleIsland : I think that parents should instruct their children that there are many religions out there and provide means for children to learn about them. Probl
36 Redngold : If... only... you... knew... And there you go again, making a overgeneralized "therefore" statement that is a leap of logic without any direct knowle
37 LAXspotter : unless there is substantial proof of the existence of a diety, besides what the Koran, Bible or the Torah might say.... it is your job to prove the e
38 Kalakaua : I'm shocked, but in a way, indifferent. If that is what they want to do, then fine it is. That one girl really freaks me out. But power to her. If she
39 Copaair737 : Where did I say I was an atheist? I'm more agnostic than anything. But then again, you, the person who got on me for making generalizations go out an
40 Luv2fly : Just think of good ole Ted Haggard, do as I say not as I do.
41 KSYR : Plenty. How many people did Stalin kill? Plenty. Don't forget the Cambodian massacres as well. Atheism/agnosticism has been just as lethal.
42 Aa757first : Of course it is. But many charitable contributions have been made in the face of religion. Its also perfectly possible to be a murdering maniac witho
43 Luisca : Both sides here, those questioning religion and those defending these wackos in the documentary need to chill. Why cant we all just live by the princi
44 Bok269 : As far as organized religion goes, used correctly it can be wonderful, used incorrectly it can lead to what some describe above as well as what has be
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