Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America  
User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 16 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

"Speeders beware. Your neighbors might have you on their radar. That's the message police departments across the country are trying to send by loaning residents radar guns and turning them into neighborhood speed watchers."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-22-radar_N.htm


This is so frustrating. Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country. Pay a hefty fine, some even on the spot. Then it goes on your insurance so you get nailed that way too. Fuck that, I'm sick of people telling me speed kills, slow down, bla bla bla. I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor. I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved, yet police departments across the country are so freaking anal about enforcing this asinine law. Grrrr  mad 

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 16 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved

Perhaps so, but it's still a factor. I agree to some extent with you that alcohol is a far bigger issue in this country, but at least here in Los Angeles drivers have a very nasty habit of speeding, and it gets annoying. And no, I'm not 65 years old! What I am is a 28-yr-old who's been following Formula 1 and WRC for many years, thus I'm a big car fan. However, because I watch so much car racing and attended so many events I have grown to respect speed, and that's what people in this country lack. Here in LA is not uncommon to see drivers exceed the posted limit by 15 MPH on a constant basis...and what for? So that you break harder and the next traffic light? Moreover, drivers in this country are not well trained, they are horrible, get distracted by eating and cell phones, and have no respect for pedestrians. Doing 80 on the freeway can be relatively safe (everyone headed in the same direction, etc), but speeding all the time in all kinds of road is uncalled for. Besides, the roads in the US are poorly maintained, thus not inspiring any sort of confidence.

I have driven at 130MPH on the autobahn in Germany, and I felt safe there. The road is extremely well kept, the drivers know, understand, and follow the rules. Everyone is aware of each other, plus the drivers have to go through a lot more training that we do here to obtain their license, thus they are less likely to do something stupid and loose their license that cost 2K euros or so. Driving in the US is almost the complete opposite of what I just described.

Handing radars to neighbors is a bit much, but enforcing the laws I see no problem with. Drivers in this country need to slow down and learn some car control first. Then we can talk about speeding.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

Charles


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 15 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 1):
have driven at 130MPH on the autobahn in Germany, and I felt safe there. The road is extremely well kept, the drivers know, understand, and follow the rules. Everyone is aware of each other, plus the drivers have to go through a lot more training that we do here to obtain their license, thus they are less likely to do something stupid and loose their license that cost 2K euros or so. Driving in the US is almost the complete opposite of what I just described.

so true. In German roads, the fatest cars doesnt have to weave in and out of traffic, the slow car in front of him will simply step over to the right, so much better. Most drivers here are much more distracted, I think Autobahn drivers know the risks of being distracted at 125MPH.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 15 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

I think most of the use of speed cameras by citizens in this story are in primarily residential neighborhoods, where drivers often drive well over the posted speed limits, where frequently accidents occur, near schools and have significant pedestrian traffic, especially children. Let's face it, if a speed limit is 25 and many go more like 30 to 35 or even 40, it will take longer for a driver to stop their vehicle in case something happens like a ball rolling out into the street or someone is backing out of their driveway as example. Police cannot be everywhere, nor would we want them to deter speeding. By these volunteers being out with the speed guns, they may discipline those who frequently drive in such areas to watch their speed and make the streets safer in that area.

User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12256 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (7 years 15 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

These citizens obviously write tickets, but by having radars, they can prove that people are indeed speeding through the area and get more police presence that way. Same idea as having speed trailers.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 14 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Speed limits are necessary in congested areas, but why the hell do they care if I'm doing 90 down I-29 on that empty stretch between Fargo and Sioux Falls?

User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 14 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 5):
doing 90 down I-29 on that empty stretch between Fargo and Sioux Falls?

I understand your first point, we definetely need regulation on congested roads, but in rural areas, I dont understand why its 65. I would be actually more comfortable doing 80 in the LA area because everyone seems to be moving at that speed, so the chances of me getting a ticket are much less than if I were going 15 over the limit in a rural area.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 14 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country.

 Yeah sure Oh to be ignorant...

So, you think you can do 60 mph just fine through a residential zone and stop in time not to hit that kid who's chasing his/her ball that rolled out into the street?

Sure this is just a certain situation, and I'm sure you meant speed limits on Interstates/highways, etc. But one should expect a smart-assed response for such a stupid, generalized statement...


User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 14 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country.

Yeah, that's why they are there, good call. Not to keep morons from driving so fast they are killing other people on the road.

Plus, who cares if they're loaning out the guns, I thought you'd like that, there's less radar guns for the police to actually write legitimate tickets with.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7213 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor. I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved, yet police departments across the country are so freaking anal about enforcing this asinine law.

Exactly. Now everything I am about to say does not include residential areas or urban congested roads.
But speed limits on highways and some larger un congested roads are WAY TO LOW! 55mph at 2am on a dry and lighted highway is crazy. It is completely safe to drive at 80-85mph or even 100mph on some stretches under those circumstances.
Also some areas in Miami where the only reason the city is still Incorporated is because of the money they make on speeding tickets. One area called Bal Harbour. It is just one stretch of road three-four lanes wide with apartment buildings on both sides. Very little pedestrian traffic and most of the day the road is not congested yet the speed limit is 30mph! Give me a break, and there are a good amount of cops for this small area too. Its crazy, there are so many cops I never do more than 33mph. But this is a 3-4 lane avenue. At least have it at 35mph.
But the main problem with the US is people dont know how to drive and it is way to easy to get your license. You dont even have to parallel park to get your license in the state of Florida, yet you need to know how to park your car on a hill??? yea those massive 300ft hills in Upstate Florida.

Getting my license was one of the easiest things i have ever done in my life, yet it gives me the privilege to do one of the most dangerous things I will ever do in my life...
But Speed does not kill people, bad/stupid drivers speeding kill people.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 9):
You dont even have to parallel park to get your license in the state of Florida, yet you need to know how to park your car on a hill??? yea those massive 300ft hills in Upstate Florida.

LOL, so true. I hate to stereotype but I being an Asian have noticed the Asian women who drive Lexuses and other luxury cars have a hell of a time parking, much less parallel parking, and this is from experience. Frankly, if one cant park the car properly one shouldnt be allowed to drive.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 9):
But Speed does not kill people, bad/stupid drivers speeding kill people.

Oh, well then it's easy, we'll test everyone, and put big green stickers on the cars of those who are good drivers, and red ones on cars of people who tested as bad drivers. Then police can spend all their time focusing on red stickers and ignore the green stickers.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 8):
Plus, who cares if they're loaning out the guns, I thought you'd like that, there's less radar guns for the police to actually write legitimate tickets with.

The problem with handing some speed guns to citizens is that some of these folks who might be biased might abuse the system, have a personal agenda against other citizens and fine the hell out of each other until it gets out of hand. I just don't see how this is going to work.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
The problem with handing some speed guns to citizens is that some of these folks who might be biased might abuse the system, have a personal agenda against other citizens and fine the hell out of each other until it gets out of hand. I just don't see how this is going to work.

But the citizens can't fine each other. The only thing they can do is notify the police who may or may not send out a warning letter. If anything the most this would do is notify police of areas where people are speeding excessively, but the ultimate authority to hand out tickets still lies in the hands of the police.

This is really just people playing with radar guns.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 13):

That makes more sense now.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

The speed limit in Interstates should be 90. Inside towns and residential areas of course we need speed enforcement, but no the highways we should move towards a systems like Germany's.

The town were I live in has the nastiest cops that will give you a ticket for anything.I have had 2 tickets and they have both been ridiculous, both for going 7 over the limit on a "residential area" One was on a Sunday afternoon I totally lost track of speed following traffic and just because I was the last one in the row of cars I get pulled over, clean record but the guy slams me with the ticket. The second time I was driving at night and the F#@$ cop pulled me over to try and slam me a DUI; had been tailing me for a good 15 minutes, I was sober so when I complained that he pulled me over for no good reason he gave me a 88 dollar ticket, thats why I hate cops! especially in the little old redneck town.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Unfortunately, the way speed limits are enforced is the opposite of how they should be enforced. There should be cops in a residential area pulling over people that are going 40 MPH where kids play. But I guess they wouldn't make enough money that way, since there are less cars and (hopefully) less speeders. So instead they pull over people that are going 85 MPH on an uncrowded highway on a nice sunny day.

User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2770 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor.

And I've been a cop (and an accident reconstructionist) for over 20 years and I disagree with your sweeping generalization. Please tell me how being a paramedic qualifies you to determine what the factors are of a crash you've been dispatched to; fatal or otherwise. I've been on a fair amount of traffic crashes in my career and I don't recall ever seeing the EMS crew interviewing witnesses, measuring skid marks, or inspecting the vehicles involved in the crash after they've been impounded. Further, doesn't the speed of the vehicle(s) involved play a role in how you treat the victims? For example, when you have a victim of a low speed impact crash compared to one of a high speed impact crash, who is more apt to have serious injuries? Also, who are you more apt to suspect will have more serious injuries, even though they're not obvious, and treat for such? If I rear end a vehicle while doing 5mph are you going to treat me the same as if I were doing 60mph at the time of impact? Of course you're not. In the latter scenario, even if I'm not displaying any signs of internal trauma, you're going to assume such and c-spine me and treat me accordingly. Point being, speed not only plays a role in the mechanics of a crash, but it also dictates how the victims are treated.

It's been my experience that speed does play a role in most fatal crashes. Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation, like that child chasing his ball into the street or the idiot in front of you on the freeway who just has to make that 3 lane change to get to his exit that he didn't notice because he is talking on his cell phone. And let's not forget the fact that driving is a privilege. Either play by the rules or take the bus. Pretty simple concept.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Well said Itjustme  wideeyed 

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation, like that child chasing his ball into the street or the idiot in front of you on the freeway who just has to make that 3 lane change to get to his exit that he didn't notice because he is talking on his cell phone.

And of course the faster you go, the stopping distance increases..

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
And let's not forget the fact that driving is a privilege.

Apparently this is a concept people don't understand; at any given time 30% of the drivers are unlicensed, and near midnight to four am. is some areas the rate climbs to 50%.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
but in rural areas, I dont understand why its 65.

Rural interstates are 70 in CA, 75 in AZ, and parts of Texas 80. Actually how much faster do you need to go?


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
The speed limit in Interstates should be 90.

Again, why? There's a fair amount of vehicles on today's interstates that shouldn't be doing 75 mph, much less 90. Alot of drivers out there too that can't handle a vehicle at 75, much less 90. Just another absurd comment. When Montana didn't have that speed limit of "reasonable and prudent", you'd be surprised of the percentage of people who stayed UNDER 85 mph...


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Actually how much faster do you need to go?

90


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Rural interstates are 70 in CA, 75 in AZ, and parts of Texas 80. Actually how much faster do you need to go?

Sure as hell alot more than 65mph in the middle of an Illinois cornfield. 90mph limit would be nice.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
It's been my experience that speed does play a role in most fatal crashes. Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation

I will debate that the education-less American drivers who drive fast play a role in most fatal crashes.


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2770 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 21):

And finally, we hear from our resident expert on, well, pretty much everything. Ah, to know so much at such a young age...you are truly gifted.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 19):
Again, why? There's a fair amount of vehicles on today's interstates that shouldn't be doing 75 mph, much less 90. Alot of drivers out there too that can't handle a vehicle at 75, much less 90. Just another absurd comment. When Montana didn't have that speed limit of "reasonable and prudent", you'd be surprised of the percentage of people who stayed UNDER 85 mph...

That's a great point, and people are so reluctant to understand that the only benefit of high speed is decreasing the amount of time it takes to go from point A to point B. Driving faster requires a better built and stable vehicle, substantially better driving skills, more concentration on the road, fewer traffic around you, and better kept roads. I have lived in the Northeast, in Florida, and now the West Coast, and I have not found all of these factors together more than, say, 10% of the time. As someone already pointed out, driving is a privilege, not a right. Furthermore, driving skills get better over time, but you can't enforce gradual speed limits based on how many years you've had your license. The just licensed 18 y/o won't have the experience of the 40 y/o, so you have to put a speed limit to control the more inexperienced driver. Add to that the number of vehicles on the road that shouldn't be doing anything over 70 (older cars, big SUVs, cars with worn tyres), and you have an accident in the waiting.

Again, my biggest fear is that drivers in the US do not have respect for speed. Your reaction times diminish exponentially the faster you go. At 25MPH you can control your car; at 90, the car controls you. Furthermore, our typical driver will insist on fiddling with the radio, talk on the cell phone, or stare at the scenery while driving. Not good signs.

I know that most of the times the people that want higher speed limits think of themselves as good drivers, and maybe they are. But if you have a need for speed then buy a day pass at your local race track, get your hands on a Miata (or an F430 Scuderia, GT3, Elise, or Superleggera Gallardo) and do the insane speeds in a controlled environment, away from me. If you are so keen on killing yourself, don't put the lives of others at risk. Please.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
the highways we should move towards a systems like Germany's

Have you ever been to Germany? Here's why their system works there:
a. They keep their roads fastidiously clear of debris, well paved, and well maintained
b. Drivers spend something like 3000 euros in obtaining their license; in order to pass the test, they have to drive at night as well as daytime, in rain, in snow, at speed in the autobahn, etc. Nothing compared to the joke of driver's ed we have here.
c. The drivers respect the law and the rules, there are hefty penalties for disobedience, and drivers play by the rules
d. There are very strict laws to keep cars in the best shape possible, plus all cars are required to carry a first-aid kit
e. Finally, the public (generally) respects the laws and the effects of speed
When something like this is done here, then we can raise the speed limit. Until then, keep it below 85.

Charles


User currently offlineDuff44 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):

Welcome to my RR list... very well put

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
a. They keep their roads fastidiously clear of debris, well paved, and well maintained
b. Drivers spend something like 3000 euros in obtaining their license; in order to pass the test, they have to drive at night as well as daytime, in rain, in snow, at speed in the autobahn, etc. Nothing compared to the joke of driver's ed we have here.
c. The drivers respect the law and the rules, there are hefty penalties for disobedience, and drivers play by the rules
d. There are very strict laws to keep cars in the best shape possible, plus all cars are required to carry a first-aid kit
e. Finally, the public (generally) respects the laws and the effects of speed

Exactly ZERO of which happens (or will happen) in the USA, so the limits stay.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
"Speeders beware. Your neighbors might have you on their radar. That's the message police departments across the country are trying to send by loaning residents radar guns and turning them into neighborhood speed watchers."

Where can I sign up? With all the speeding that happens on my street, I'm about ready to set up a cinder-block chicane to slow people down...



I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
25 Matt D : Some great points issued here. The problem is that there is too much of a disconnect from the bigger picture. I don't think anyone disagrees with the
26 Palladium : I think here is the true of answer..... from my opinion, the speed limits are there for reasons, 1. Most people do not drive a nice car. Most modern c
27 Post contains images Lobster : Your right, I should of said highway speeds. Did you bother to read my post? It's not a sweeping generalization. It's my personal opinion from my per
28 LAXspotter : I think most cars are capable of going 80, but that wouldnt be a good idea in a city like LA, the type of drivers we have... Well, it would be okay a
29 Matt D : Just goes to show how narrow and one-dimensional some peoples minds are. Sometimes I wish these people actually WOULD get exactly what they ask for. F
30 Lobster : Funny that you say that. We have a trailer park in my area the is almost half a mile long, with HUGE speed bumps about every 250 feet. I don't care w
31 Post contains images AirframeAS : Why 90, Luisca? Laws of physics states that the faster you go, the stopping distance increases and lessens your ability to react in emergency situati
32 Aa757first : I agree with some of those points. Getting a license in PA at least is a huge joke. Take a multiple choice test that shuts off as soon as you answer
33 CaptOveur : There is speeding, then there is speeding. Personally, I don't think I have ever been stopped for more than 10 over. Last time I was pulled over it w
34 Charles79 : They may seem ridiculous but, unfortunately, when it comes to controlling machines that have the potential of fatally injuring others we have to take
35 57AZ : Another factor to be considered is what speed a particular vehicle is designed/equipped to operate at. Tractor-trailer units and commercial motor coac
36 Luv2cattlecall : Some places (New Jersey comes to mind) also time how long it takes you to get between toll plazas - assuming you have one of the EZ-Pass or similar tr
37 Itsjustme : Yes, I did read your post. I don't make it a habit to reply to posts without reading them and I stand by what I said. I respect your profession but,
38 Post contains images ACDC8 : Sorry, but that post kinda made me chuckle. If the area is congested, you can't really speed in the first place. Not disagreeing with you or picking
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Things To Make Illegal In America. posted Thu Jul 3 2003 15:24:18 by Galaxy5
New Ad Campaign For Gay Marriage In California posted Tue Oct 9 2007 17:32:42 by Johnboy
A Foolish Loss In The Apparent Need For Speed. posted Sat Jan 27 2007 04:34:28 by TedTAce
Trouble For Wearing British MI5 Shirt In America? posted Sat Jun 24 2006 10:48:54 by Delta767300ER
Looking For A Sports Bar In New Orleans posted Thu Oct 14 2004 07:46:06 by Phxairfan
Living In New Zealand For A Year posted Fri Sep 17 2004 11:09:32 by Aviationfreak
How Can John Kerry Be For Education In America? posted Mon Mar 15 2004 23:05:48 by L-188
New IPod Nano Already Cloned In China posted Sun Sep 16 2007 04:26:10 by Springbok747
Dallas Introduces New Program For Troubled Teens posted Thu Aug 16 2007 20:37:39 by Texan
Top Gear Special; In America posted Thu Aug 16 2007 07:49:58 by Bravo45