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What Constitutes Having Been In A Country?  
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1683 times:

Hi everyone!

So I noticed that people will sometimes talk about what countries they've been to... but always have different opinions of what would count as actually going to a country. For example: some might say being in transit in an airport counts as going to said country, but some would not.

Personally, I think it's like this:

YES:
Simply transiting in an airport, assuming you get off the plane and go into the terminal.
Being there even for short periods of time.

NO:
Passing through in a car/train/whatever without stopping and getting out at least for a couple minutes.
Flying over a country (duh).
Being on a boat in that country's waters.
Being in a foreign embassy of a country.
Having been in part of a country which was later in a different country, or a whole new country altogether (i.e. you cannot go to Belgrade when it was Yugoslavia, and then say that you've been to Serbia).

Basically I think that if your feet touched the ground in a country, you've been there. What do you think about this? I know some people say you have to stay at least a night in the country to say you've been there (which in my case would eliminate my extremely short visits to Vatican City, Slovenia, and Slovakia). I know this is kind of a random topic, but that's what this forum is for!!!

[Edited 2007-11-06 20:02:55]

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1668 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter):
YES:
Simply transiting in an airport, assuming you get off the plane and go into the terminal.
Being there even for short periods of time.

NO:
Passing through in a car/train/whatever without stopping and getting out at least for a couple minutes.

I think that's slightly amiss. You will see more of a country by driving through it than you do when you're sat in an airport; terminals these days tend to have very little regional influence - they are machines for the mass transit and shelter of people, that is all.

I don't think you have to have stayed a night to actually have 'visited' a country, but you do need to have spent time there and in more than one place to have actually seen it. If you go to New York you have not 'seen' America, you have merely seen one tiny little bit of it, likewise with other cities and countries. I agree though, you can't count a country which you have just flown over - although in the case of a few (Southern Antarctic Islands and Antarctica spring to mind) there would be a case for saying you have visited them by boat.


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1662 times:

Yes:
Feet physically on the ground, or an extension of your foot (e.g. a wheel)

No:
Overflight (if you're flying REALLY low, like 2000ft or something like that, I'll count it, but it won't impress me as much)
Being in a foreign embassy of a country



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1662 times:

i agree with plym, i think you have been more in a country if you've driven across it(although i'm not saying that is even really visiting) than been in an airport. Airports are almost 'international' zones these days.

User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 2):
Being in a foreign embassy of a country

damn it, darn  grumpy  . Cut down list of countries by about ten now.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter):
YES:
Simply transiting in an airport, assuming you get off the plane and go into the terminal.

Depends. However I believe it would only count if one goes landside. Which means that officially, the only time I've been in the United States was in 1989 at MIA, when we had to go landside due to immigration rules (I didn't have my German passport then). The other times, once in ATL and MIA on return trips, and the final time in MIA on a oneway flight, I was still only airside, hence it wasn't "official".


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

IIRC, if you never go through customs, you have not entered the country, from a legal perspective. So although I have connected through LHR, I don't say that I've been to the UK, since I went straight from one international flight to another.


Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

If you have passed through customs, you have been officially to that country but technically transit counts too.

User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

Everyone has their own rules for what counts as having been in a place...here are my own criteria:

Visits to new states/countries/continents by car:

Driving through without getting out of the vehicle does not count - my feet need to touch the ground in order for the visit to count...

The most recent time I had to apply this rule was last summer when I was in Istanbul with my family and some family friends - we were there for a few days but our visit was strictly on the European side - however, on our last day, we hired a private tour guide and van to take us around, and as part of that, we drove over one of the bridges to the Asian side to see that. Never having been to Asia before, I was excited to cross that off my list of continents...however, I was feeling a little bit tired, so shortly after reaching the Asian side, I took a nap in the van. I had thought that the plan for the day included us stopping for lunch on the Asian side, so I felt secure knowing that I would get my official steps in Asia before the day was out.

However, you can imagine my horror when I was shaken awake by my folks as we were on the other bridge heading west back to the European side - "Look, Greg, there's the 'Welcome to Europe' sign" were the words I woke up to...I was pretty pissed off, since it was clear that there was a misunderstanding and my official Asian visit wasn't going to happen.

However, lemonade was made out of this lemon when it was decided that we would have the van take us up to the northern reaches of the Bosporus strait, have lunch there, and then take a ferry boat down the Bosporus back to Istanbul - when I learned that the ferry we were taking made 1 stop on the Asian side on the way back, I hatched a plot to get my visit in...

As the boat approached the dock on the stop on the Asian side, I stood pretty much at the disembarking point on the boat, and before the boat even came to a complete stop, I jumped off and onto the dock - now, the dock is artificial ground, so that doesn't count - thus, I sprinted across the dock, through the gate and onto the street by the ferry station - I took a quick look around, then reversed the journey and ran back onto the boat before it left - elapsed time in Asia: a couple of seconds at best, but I was there and so I can now officially count myself as having visited Asia!

Here's the ferry dock where this took place - the pyramid roofed building on the left was the ferry station, IIRC...


As far as air travel/airports go, here are my own personal rules for that

-I must be standing outside, on the ground, breathing fresh air for me to count it - I avoid awkward situations in this regard by simply not scheduling connections that would violate this rule (if I havent previously been to whatever geopolitical area the airport is in) - I have also been known to pad air travel schedules in order to slip in an "official" visit to a new state or country on my list...a couple of examples:

VIE - scheduled a 7 hour connection there last year which enabled me to go into the city and visit it for a while - first and only visit to Austria thus far...

WAW - 3 hour connection which meant I could wander outside around the airport as well as go up to the WAW spotting deck - first and only visit to Poland so far...

CVG - 2 hour layover there, enough time to leave the secure zone, step outside the terminal building and thus claim my first visit to Kentucky...

MKE - same situation as CVG, allowing me to get a visit to Wisconsin in there...



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
If you go to New York you have not 'seen' America, you have merely seen one tiny little bit of it, likewise with other cities and countries.

Not true.
If one only visits New York, they have seen the United States not all of it but they can claim that they have seen the United States. Even if it's just a tiny little bit of it.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

If my feet has made contact with terra firma, or my feet has made contact with any object which at the same time is touching terra firma, then I have been in said country.  splat 

My definition of course.  Smile


User currently offlineSBBRTech From Brazil, joined Jul 2007, 722 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
If one only visits New York, they have seen the United States not all of it but they can claim that they have seen the United States. Even if it's just a tiny little bit of it.

Pheew, and i was almost erasing the US from my list......
but there´s also my 4 hour connection at LAX...that gotta count fot something too... Big grin



"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
User currently offlineDABZF From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 1200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

I don't consider myself ever being in Australia although transited from AKL via SYD onto DXB - out of aircraft and then back into the same one again with maybe 30 min at the terminal building.


I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
User currently offlineToast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

I have my own peculiar rule: if I took a leak, or #2, in a country, then I've been there.  Smile I exclude all airport-only visits (2 countries down the drain) and transit by other means without stopping to see anything (1 more country gone). Flying over a country obviously doesn't count, and I can't honestly count embassies because that would boost my "travel" stats to James Bond levels.  Smile

User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

This is always a gray line but I more or less begin the process of considering myself to have "been" somewhere if I either spent the night at said place or went to a particular place for a local purpose. This is not to say that I have "experienced" the place.

As an example:

I flew from the US to Oslo in 1999 via London (LGW I think, but I can't remember).
I arrived in the morning and after a couple hours boarded my connection flight to OSL. I don't really consider to have "been" in the UK because of this connection.

In 2006 I flew to from the US to LGW for the sole purpose of having a pint of beer.
Although I didn't leave the airport, I do consider this a legitimate instance of having "been" to the UK. I had to clear customs (at least as far as I know) to check in for my return flight but I'd probably count this as having "been" to the UK even if I didn't have to officially "enter" the country. In my eyes, I spent about a day of my time going to the UK for a specific (but trivial) purpose.... so I'll take credit for having "been" there.

For what it's worth, I've been to the UK apart from these 2 examples so this is a fairly objective standard rather than an attempt to take some form of artificial "credit" for having visited a place.


To use another example:

I flew to DEN this year for a vacation with my girlfriend. Our time was mainly split between the Vail area and a spending a few days with family in Boulder. On the way to Boulder, we stopped in Breckenridge to have lunch and a pint at the Breckenridge Brewery (we also took a brief walk through town). I think it's certainly fair to say that my girlfriend has "been" to Breckenridge (but I wouldn't say she has "experienced" it in the classical sense if she hasn't been there during ski season for at least a day or so).
I use my girlfriend in this example only because I have been through the area enough times to make a fair assesment of this circumstance for myself somewhat difficult.


How about a third example?
I spent a couple weeks in Derby, UK for business purposes earlier this year.
Being a beer enthusaist, I had to take the 15 minute train ride to Burton upon Trent (home of Bass Ale). I was in Burton upon Trent for only a few hours (my time was spent at a beer museum and walking through town) but I consider this a legitimate basis to have "been" there due to by deliberate effort to travel to this place for a reason. However, I don't claim to have gained a legitimate appreciation for the whole of the town.



Speedtape - The asprin of aviation!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
If you go to New York you have not 'seen' America, you have merely seen one tiny little bit of it, likewise with other cities and countries.

Not true.
If one only visits New York, they have seen the United States not all of it but they can claim that they have seen the United States. Even if it's just a tiny little bit of it.

That's exactly what I thought I said?  Confused


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13005 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

My standard would be spending at least 1 hour with feet on the ground in a given country or territory or state. I have been on several Caribbean Islands that are independent nations that I only spent a few hours on the ground and slept on a ship. Being in an airport, never leaving the airport property to me wouldn't constitute having 'been' in a country.

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

I take issue with the OPs designation of a 'visit'. I don't think the airport should count, because, as someone said, airports are hardly representative of the country except for signs being posted in the local language. Yes, your feet are on the ground, but you see so much more of a country when you're driving that you would just because you landed in Frankfurt, went into the transit lounge and got on another flight to Russia. That's hardly being in Germany.

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 8):
Driving through without getting out of the vehicle does not count - my feet need to touch the ground in order for the visit to count...

So, hypothetically speaking, you could drive up Interstate 95 north and get off at the CT/RI border and take the backroads up through Rhode Island (but never stop the car) and see a lot of cool little towns along the way then get back on the highway and a few miles later stop at a rest area in Massachusetts before getting back in the car and driving on to New Hampshire and say that you've never been to RI but you have been to MA just because you got out?

I think each time is different. For instance, I never include airports, regardless of whether you go outside or not. Airports not representative of anything. Just because you've seen a parking garage and some Taxis at SFO airport, doesn't mean one's been to California, in my opinion...unless, of course, there's something architecturally unique about that parking garage that no other parking garage in the world possesses and people come from around the world to see it.

However, car trips have different rules for each situation. In 2005, I took a road trip to Texas. The route down took me down I-81 through Maryland and that relatively thin strip of far eastern West Virginia. It was well after dark so I couldn't see anything and the drive through was so short I didn't consider myself as having visited West Virginia. At least not until on the return we drove through the entire state from Kentucky to Maryland.

So, in the end, each situation is unique. Of course, this is completely subjective. Everyone will have their own rules. For me, to summarize:

1) Transiting airports, regardless of whether you leave security or not, doesn't count.
2) Travel by land (car or train), one doesn't necessarily need to get out, but needs to have seen a significant portion of the state, not just passing through a small sliver
3) Overflying a country doesn't count.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
That's exactly what I thought I said?

I think it's the way you worded it. I also got the impression that what you meant was if someone visits the US and only goes to New York City, they can't really say they've been to the US because they've only seen such a small portion of it. I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but that's they way it came across in your message.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

Quoting LH423 (Reply 17):
So, hypothetically speaking, you could drive up Interstate 95 north and get off at the CT/RI border and take the backroads up through Rhode Island (but never stop the car) and see a lot of cool little towns along the way then get back on the highway and a few miles later stop at a rest area in Massachusetts before getting back in the car and driving on to New Hampshire and say that you've never been to RI but you have been to MA just because you got out?

By my definition, you hit it exactly on the head - for me, that would count as a visit to Massachusetts but not Rhode Island...



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
That's exactly what I thought I said?

Nope, You said; "If you go to New York you have not 'seen' America".



I remember meeting a lady that said something similar. She tried to tell me that I really haven't seen Kansas because I just drove across the state without staying any length of time, despite the fact that it takes almost a day to pass thought the state. I told her my experience wouldn't have been any different if I had spend a month in Kansas because there really isn't much to see in Kansas.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12203 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1432 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If I used my VISA card, I have been there  Smile


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Nope, You said; "If you go to New York you have not 'seen' America".

Well you haven't seen it in the sense of viewing the entire entity, have you, but you have been there as in stepped foot on American soil - I'm not disputing that and, I qualified it by saying;

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
you have merely seen one tiny little bit of it,

I know it's incidental as everyone has their different views of what counts, as is evident from this thread, but on this point I think there is an important difference between 'been' and 'seen' when it comes to the visiting of countries. It's one thing to visit and be standing on the territorial land of another nation, it's another to actually have seen the extent of what that nation has to offer the eye... something which can easily take a lifetime to fully appreciate. I can think of a lot of people who have lived in a country for decades, yet they have never truly seen it, save the little patch of it which they live in and virtually never leave!


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 18):
By my definition, you hit it exactly on the head - for me, that would count as a visit to Massachusetts but not Rhode Island...

So even though you're seeing much more of one state, that visit doesn't count compared to stopping at a rest area along the highway?

Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know...backward?

Again, I don't think there should be fixed rules as to what constitutes a visit other than being able to say that you've at least seen a good portion of that state/country. For instance, I no longer consider having been to Arizona despite having been to Sky Harbor (incl. the curbside area) a few times and passing along the 15 mins or so of I-15 between Utah and Nevada, simply because none of those times allowed me the opportunity to really see Arizona, other than the immediate vicinity around PHX and a small canyon largely blown out to accommodate the highway in the northwestern corner of the state.

However, I do consider Delaware because while I've driven allow the 14-mile stretch of I-95 too many times to count (but never stopped), I've also driven the entire length from I-95 in the north to the Maryland border in the south on a coach bus (also never stopping). Just the same if I drove from Paris to Amsterdam. I'd consider myself to have visited Belgium even if I never got off the bus or stopped the car.

But, again, to each his own.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21423 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

In order for me to have been to a country (or any other political entity), I have to have both set foot on ground in that country outside of the transportation infrastructure for a purpose other than the support of travel, and have spent at least an hour there or have spent money. Food does not count as support of travel unless it is consumed in the car/plane/train/boat, etc.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 21):
Well you haven't seen it in the sense of viewing the entire entity

Well of course, the United States is too big to see the entire place in one trip or even 3-4 separate trips. I've lived in the United States all my life and have been to 45 of 50 states. That means that there are still 5 states that I have not seen. Does that mean I haven't seen the entire United States?

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 21):
Well you haven't seen it in the sense of viewing the entire entity, have you, but you have been there

That would only be true if one steps foot in a country blindfolded.



Bring back the Concorde
25 Post contains images AlexEU : Excellent threat i wanted to ask this a week ago, but i forgot...i asked it on another forum. I count airport transits and car/train transit. As long
26 ModernArt : Toast and I think alike. Me and an architect buddy (known 25+ years) have always compared notes on places we've been. Taking a "dump" is automatic qu
27 USAFHummer : Not to me, because as you correctly state below: There are no universal rules for this, therefore it is dependent on each person to come up with thei
28 AlexEU : As for counting waters, i count if i passed through a certain country by ship (rivers and lakes not sea) because they are countet as territory. I woul
29 Doona : Me and a friend came up with a definition whilst competing to see who had visited the most countries, and we decided to one had to spend at least two
30 KiwiinOz : Personally I only count when I have spent 1 night in that country. Transit doesn't count for me.
31 Post contains images IFEMaster : Then you can also cross 'Mexico' off your list
32 Boeing744 : Yes, you're right about that, but you could count that you have been to Yugoslavia, even though it doesn't exist anymore. To use another example then
33 Post contains images Boeing744 : Thank you! I actually got the idea from your border thread, which was also excellent!
34 BSBIsland : Well, once I had a day trip to Luxembourg, stayed there the whole day as a tourist and did not spend a night there, but I do consider that I have bee
35 Viscount724 : That doesn't work in Europe. You can visit 15 countries covered by the Schengen Agreement without ever going through customs provided you don't leave
36 JGPH1A : I allow myself same-plane transits to count as a visit, for countries that there is no way in hell I would visit otherwise e.g. Ivory Coast, Cape Verd
37 Post contains links and images AlexEU : Same for me, but i count that i been in Switzerland. I was still in Switzerland not in Bhutan   In a few months (before 1.Jan.2008) Schengen will ge
38 Post contains links AlexEU : Check out what they say (their visiting standards) http://www.mosttraveledpeople.com/_mtpStandards.cfm i don't agree with them about customs ''visit''
39 Mirrodie : Interesting topic. I guess what constitutes being in a country comes down to your own sense of bragging rights. I personally would not consider a one
40 AlexEU : Definetly nor, or at least for me. An embassy is diplomatic mission. It HAS EXTRATERITORIALITY which means that some rules of the country (of embassy)
41 RobertNL070 : In theory yes. Last may when we drove on the E15 from France into Spain, both Schengen nations, we both had to show our passports. When we flew MH to
42 AlexEU : AFAIK, from March 2008 there will be no passport check at Schengen airports.
43 Toast : There is none. A national ID is perfectly acceptable. Been that way for a long time...
44 Post contains images Foppishbum : To me, it's staying at a country for 3+ days or else I can add lots of other countries to the list of those I've been. Being raised in Taiwan for like
45 KaiGywer : Wrong. You are still subject to customs (might or might not get stopped). However, you don't need a passport to travel between these countries.
46 FlyDeltaJets87 : Minus the sites in Washington, D.C., if you've "only seen New York", you've still probably seen one of the most important cities in the U.S., and one
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