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Isn't Saudi Justice Great?  
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/19/saudi.rape.victim/index.html

A 19-year old woman in Saudi Arabia is raped and,

Quote:

Story Highlights
Woman sentenced to 200 lashes and six months in jail under Islamic law

Woman's lawyer loses law license for speaking to Saudi-controlled media

Human rights group: Lawyer faces three-year suspension and disbarment

Isn't Sharia law just wonderful?

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePAHS200 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

i no I'm going to get flamed, but:

I think this is what we should do in the USA( not the get raped and lashed part) but when someone gets in trouble with the law they should be lashed. in the USA its jail time, that does noting and justs waste tax-money. I believe we should punished people like the Saudi's do. that will send a true message to them.

in my grade (11th) 4 boys robbed a girls house. they were changed, but let go. The next week one of the boys threated to shoot-up the school. now why was he let go? because in the USA we don't have any real form of punishment. i would bet my money that if he was lashed 200 times he would never do that again and no one would to.


User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

This subject was already discussed in this forum. The exact same thing


"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2038 times:



Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 1):
The next week one of the boys threated to shoot-up the school. now why was he let go?

Let me have a wild guess - because he was changed?

Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 1):
i would bet my money that if he was lashed 200 times he would never do that again and no one would to.

That would give you one seriously wounded angry and soon to be armed puppy.

He might not do that, but likely something worse and the deterrent effect, check how effective other penalties are.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2038 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):

There was already a really long thread on this.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4864 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Welcome to 5 days ago.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2020 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):



Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):

What's interesting is that both of the posters share almost the same political views....



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2020 times:



Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 6):

What's interesting is that both of the posters share almost the same political views....

Um, first, our views differ in many ways. Second, like we both said, there was a very lengthy thread on this less than a week ago. That makes this a duplicate and hence in violation of the A.net rules.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4864 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2016 times:



Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 6):
What's interesting is that both of the posters share almost the same political views....

Me and N1120A or Cfalk and the dude who started the other thread. Which in Cfalk's defense seems to have gone AWOL.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2012 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
That makes this a duplicate and hence in violation of the A.net rules.

You're wrong. The other thread was removed. This is the only existing thread discussing the issue.

-UH60


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13165 posts, RR: 78
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Since it has been revealed that the US has eight (yes 8!) times as many people locked up, compared to 1970, I seriously doubt that it lacks for punishment.
Was there 8 times less crime in 1970? or 8 times more now, I think not.
I do know there is a vast, for profit complex, making a pile of cash from this mass incarceration, with all the army of lobbyists in Washington to grease the wheels.

If you really want to emulate Saudi Arabia, in any way, I suggest a consideration of the old saying, 'be careful what you wish for.....'

Justice should be about proportionate punishment, as well as re-habilitation, the latter if you want to even start at reducing that vast cost of all those prisoners, but I can think of some who would not see that in their interests.
Justice should not be about pandering to the sadism of some.

Saudi Arabia is a deeply dysfunctional society, where women are treated as cattle, breeding stock, this sort of 'justice' is all about the twisted interpretation of a particular religion.
But let's not be too smug, since women have never done well under Christianity either, just that in post enlightenment societies the worst aspects of this has been slowly, remorselessly, eroded.
To a point where discrimination is illegal.
Saudi uses their interpretation of Islam to enforce an effective police state, and a police state is one run by criminals.

There are some US based fundamentalists, of the Christan kind, who would like to turn the status of women back a couple of centuries, (myself, I think this drives some of the harder core, so called, 'pro-lifers').

Those who get 'lashes', or worse, are usually the most powerless in Saudi society, the same would be true if such a thing still existed here.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2001 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 11):

There are some US based fundamentalists, of the Christan kind, who would like to turn the status of women back a couple of centuries, (myself, I think this drives some of the harder core, so called, 'pro-lifers').

It's amazing that you can bring this back to the feet of Americans and Christians.  Yeah sure

This is a clear case of Saudi Arabia using their outdated and barbaric interpretation of Islam. You can talk all you want about how some Christians want to turn the clock back on women's rights... but this story is actually happening. This isn't hot air from some religious nuts, it's government accepted policy in a major Islamic country.

Why don't we focus on who is truly to blame?

-UH60


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4864 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1990 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
Why don't we focus on who is truly to blame?

Well we did that in the thread that got deleted:
US big business and US gov in KSA (since the 1920 letting this slide) in conjunction with bad interpretations of Islam and the hangover from tribalism?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1983 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 13):

Well wait... the US government and its foreign policy is responsible for lining the pockets of Saudi kings and princes, and is responsible for willingly giving billions in aid and support to a religiously fanatic country, with barbaric laws and practices.

HOWEVER, the US government is not responsible for what is happening to this young girl. Islamic fanatics, with uncivilized and monstrous views, are responsible for punishing a gang rape victim.

Lets keep that distinction clear.

-UH60


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

What's REALLY sad is - this probably happens a whole lot more than we sheltered Americans realize. I lived in the Middle East for a couple of years, and I have heard some horrific stories about how women, girls, and VICTIMS are treated. It makes me sick just to think about it.


I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13165 posts, RR: 78
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

I'm not blaming the US at all, but, I was reacting to a post who thought the sadism of this 'punishment' a good thing.
But yes, the US has become a society where crime and punishment seems all too often to be about pandering, helped by the fact that TV coverage of crime (of the tabloid kind), has increased 30 fold since 1980.
I just do not discriminate against fundamentalists of any kind, don't care what imaginary friend in the sky you think talks to you.

For anyone in the much freer Western democracies, where sex discrimination is illegal, to have a shred of admiration of what passes for justice in a theocratic state, is perverse.
Because a state in the 21st century that does such things, is not going to stop there, those who'd think themselves immune from such a state, are deluded.

A great American once said, 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself .
Fear drives this sadism in Saudi, fear of the opposite sex, fear of modernity, fear of how personal freedom would end the hegemony of a few at the top.
We are lucky that though, as mentioned, media driven fear of crime maybe has lead to a bloated Incarceration industrial complex, this is as far as it has gone.
Let's keep it that way.


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1959 times:



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 15):
What's REALLY sad is - this probably happens a whole lot more than we sheltered Americans realize. I lived in the Middle East for a couple of years,

No kidding, and this also happens in the rural provinces of Pakistan as well.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
using their outdated and barbaric interpretation of Islam

I believe the punishment for rape in Islam is the death penalty for the perpetrators not the punishment of the victim. The court just found a way to punish the woman for being in contact with male non family members which I cannot understand. Islam doesnt call for the punishment of the victim in any way, but these sick twisted interpreations of the wahhabists really leave me puzzled and disgusted.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1954 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 16):
Fear drives this sadism in Saudi, fear of the opposite sex, fear of modernity, fear of how personal freedom would end the hegemony of a few at the top.

And worth noting that various countries have their preferred incarceration targets.

Australia - two main groups at present although our judiciary are having trouble over their cornflakes with the cases made against one of these groups.

USA - guess what the conclusion of this writer is:
http://www.blackcommentator.com/146/146_cover_dixon_ten_worst.html
Which is not to say they are wrong.

And KSA has a number of "things" in its fear complex, one of which is gender.

As GDB wrote, at least two of us were horrified that one poster picked up on the lash as a great and effective method of crime prevention.

Should we move on now to the correlation between the time of the introduction of Roe v Wade in various US states and the lag to the fall in their homicide rates? It is a "neat" correlation. Better than many of the other ones cited for various aspects of crime rates.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1946 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):

You're wrong. The other thread was removed. This is the only existing thread discussing the issue.

Well, the topic was discussed to death in that thread.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1941 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 8):



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):

No, forget about it, I meant that the other thread and this new one were started by two people that share almost the same views. (Cfalk and UH) Quite interesting.



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1931 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
the US government and its foreign policy is responsible for lining the pockets of Saudi kings and princes, and is responsible for willingly giving billions in aid and support to a religiously fanatic country, with barbaric laws and practices.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):


HOWEVER, the US government is not responsible for what is happening to this young girl.

The US government is not directly responsible for this. Where the US government is at fault is for propping up the regime in Saudi Arabia, even while it continues to have the absolute worst human rights record toward women on the face of the Earth and while the elites in Saudi society with deep connections to the regime continue to be the direct source of nearly all terrorism against the United States, both on American soil and in Iraq.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1924 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Isn't Sharia law just wonderful?

...and deriving pleasure from vengeance is a sin.

Give it a rest.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12382 posts, RR: 47
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
The US government is not directly responsible for this. Where the US government is at fault is for propping up the regime in Saudi Arabia

Absolutely right. It only took about a 100 posts in the original thread to get to this point! wink 

The regime in Saudi Arabia is responsible for this "justice" without question. However, both the US and UK Governments are guilty of supporting that regime and not putting on enough pressure for reform. I'm sure they would both argue that it's better to support the House of Saud and "work with them to achieve reform", then to simply let them be replaced by something that might be even worse from a Western viewpoint.

Of course, oil and big business have absolutely nothing to do with it. sarcastic 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineFLYB6JETS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1901 times:



Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 1):
I think this is what we should do in the USA( not the get raped and lashed part) but when someone gets in trouble with the law they should be lashed. in the USA its jail time, that does noting and justs waste tax-money

What we oughta do is sentence them to forced hard labor and charge them room and board for their cell.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13033 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

If the USA and many other countries in the world didn't need Saudi oil, then we might make a big deal of this. We cannot nor will not make noise to the Saud family who rules the country.
The worst of all this is that the VICITM is also being punished with 200 Lashes and months jail for being in a car not operated by her husband or a male family member and publicly in the press discussing her case.
I bet if any of these a-holes that raped this woman were members of the Saud family, they wouldn't be punished.


25 Post contains images Lobster : Ever here of the word sarcasm? And then to say something is a sin? Ooooooo, the fear of god
26 N1120A : So, slavery plus payment for a position they are forced in to?
27 Emirates773ER : Ever wonder how some threads just don't get deleted?
28 L-188 : That is pretty generally BS buddy. Which is one of the reasons why I would like to see more use of E85 in this country, and more exploration in Alask
29 FLYB6JETS : That has to be one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on this website. Someone who commits a crime deserves every last damn punishment they get
30 Post contains images LAXspotter : , Ever been to one? Prison is no fun, you gotta watch your back, you never know when your gonna get stabbed by an inmate.
31 N1120A : You ever been in a real prison? A place like Angola or San Quentin?
32 LAXspotter : people dont go to prison to enjoy their life, gang inmates go there to build their reputation. Prison is no whatsoever but if youre not Black, White
33 FLYB6JETS : All the more reason not to do anything stupid to get sent there. Nope, I haven't because I am capable of abiding by the laws of this country. All the
34 Post contains images Aaron747 : The man is a member of the Society of Jesus...I'm not Catholic or even religious, but show some respect, huh? Nevermind, you probably don't even know
35 N1120A : I wasn't asking if you had been a resident of those places, rather if you had been inside one. If not, don't even start on how you think they are any
36 LAXspotter : because that is their lifestyle, you cant make prison any worse. You cant deny food, you cant deny social interaction for a couple of hours, you cant
37 Post contains links Pyrex : Have you heard the justification of the Saudi Ministry of "Justice" on this? "Charges were proven." Gotta love the Sauds... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap
38 FLYB6JETS : Yes, I have and I can darn well assure you it makes me never want to do anything stupid enough to get into one. It's about deterrent. Make it a livin
39 LAXspotter : "eye for an eye makes the world go blind" Gandhi. Being is prison is punishment enough, you need to go to prison or talk to someone who has before yo
40 N1120A : Sorry, but torture is not acceptable in civil society. Because it makes people go crazy, which becomes cruel and unusual punishment. One can't surviv
41 Post contains images NWA742 : Talk about the epitome of bleeding heart nonsense. -NWA742
42 N1120A : Bleeding heart huh? I personally think that the best prisons are the ones that are productive. I am not just talking about license plates, but places
43 NWA742 : No, I think it's good for prisons to be productive as well. But nobody is forced into going to prison.............that is bleeding heart nonsense. -N
44 N1120A : Not particularly. I am not saying we are wrong to force people into prison for committing serious crimes, I am saying that by choosing to do so, we h
45 GDB : Don't get you L-188, sorry. But do you deny the large, influential presence of faith based nutters in the US? I think, hope, their influence has reach
46 Post contains links FLYB6JETS : Ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio You'll probably think he is the biggest purveyor of cruel and unusual punishment to e
47 Post contains images N1120A : He has cost Maricopa County millions upon millions of dollars because of his practices, which at this point have almost universally been condemned. H
48 FLYB6JETS : Prove it
49 Post contains links N1120A : http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-...ers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1 http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/?sty=23162 http://www.azcentral.com/news/a
50 PA110 : Actually it has nothing to do with religion. I'm no fan of Islam, however Islam doesn't really have much to say about the treatment of women other th
51 OA260 : You know what makes me even more angry !!! The head of a supposedly democracy Mr George Bush has not condemned this action . America is supposed to be
52 Post contains images Zillox : Next holiday with my girlfriend: > Jeddah!!!  *sarcasme* I don't get those people. Do they realise they are completly wrong?[Edited 2007-11-21
53 Post contains links Baroque : It seems Hillary has. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/cli...rape/2007/11/22/1195321948664.html Clinton lashes White House over Saudi rape
54 OA260 : I know but Hilary is not the US government ...(yet )......
55 Kay : Indeed the staunch supporters of the present US administration may find difficulties in justifying Bush's position on this one. Not because they shou
56 Blackbird : I think this is terrible. A woman was raped, and *she* gets punished for being raped by being whipped 200 times. Crazy Andrea Kent
57 CF188A : welcome to a democratic nation . If you do not like our civil methods then move to the Middle East
58 Blackbird : How can anyone justify this... beating a victim!??? Andrea Kent
59 Post contains images Lobster : Respect goes both ways pal. I won't dis the jesus freaks if they won't spew their belief on me. They can believe what ever the hell they want, thats
60 Jcs17 : Quit bringing the US/UK support of the Saudi Arabian government into this. Don't be naive enough to think that if it wasn't for the current regime in
61 Post contains links Baroque : I think you will find you are less than correct in relation to countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia though the situation of women there is still
62 ME AVN FAN : Sure, it is so wonderful that the one Arab country which applies it in the most extreme form is the darling of the USA - This may well be, BUT the to
63 Baroque : Ah now you get close to the key to the problem, that Nasser guy was too nationalist to be comfortable and added to which he got stuff from the Russia
64 ME AVN FAN : - After the USA withdrew their support for the Aswan Dam in about 1958 and John Foster Dulles sent a cheque to Nasr which he used for the building of
65 Jamincan : Perhaps because the current system does nothing to rehabilitate criminals, doesn't prepare them to reintegrate into society on leaving the system, an
66 Baroque : Hold it MAF, I did not for a moment imply that the wests policy towards Nasser was half sensible, I was just reporting it the way it was "justified".
67 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : I had heard the term "wog" uttered in a more or less discreet way in my presence but for many years was not aware of the meaning. It in a factual way
68 Post contains images Baroque : What is really embarrassing is how far off the mark so many of the "wogs cannot" do this or that, comments were in reality. Aside from the Egyptians
69 ME AVN FAN : For many years, the Saudi government financially supported the building of Mosques in Western Eruope, BUT when the building was completed, the Saudis
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