LAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5 Posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2460 times:
Allright, I was just watching SkySports, and they were just shocked at this defeat, the entire broadcast was about the defeat and it was quite interesting to see how much you Englishmen are into a sport that you seem to suck at . Furthermore, it seems that England always has high expectations and always comes up short. What is wrong with English Football?
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13877 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
Quoting Andreas (Reply 4): The "national" football teams of England and Scotland and Wales possibly should merge into a UNITED Kingdom national team ?
And that would help them achieving WHAT exactly?
It may help them to phase out those players who basically just love to suffer and keep those really interested to try. And it would create a team of people from the Shetland Islands down to Brighton, and so a much wider choice. As the present teams do NOT really excel, why not combine them into one ?
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2409 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6): It may help them to phase out those players who basically just love to suffer and keep those really interested to try. And it would create a team of people from the Shetland Islands down to Brighton, and so a much wider choice. As the present teams do NOT really excel, why not combine them into one ?
Well first of all it was a joke, but ok, maybe some people are right now not in the mood for jokes...so DON'T MENTION FOOTBALL!
Seriously...what do you expect to happen: NOTHING!! England has in terms of players one of the best teams in Europe (ok, goalies we may not want to talk about....are there any new nicknames for poor Mr. Carson yet??), so in the end, a UK team would be pretty much the same as the English one.
Impacto From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2398 times:
I feel sorry for the England fans, but I must say I'm really happy with that result, because I for one can't stand the English press and their arrogance. They seem to be the one's controlling football in England . Team Scotland may have been knocked out from an even more difficult group but we went out fighting. England had no fight, and went out with a whimper. Maybe, as ME AVN FAN pointed out, qualifying as one nation (United Kingdom) might be the best solution. For God's sake why do you need four territories from one nation to qualify? Thats being greedy if you ask me, and yet in the end, all failed in qualifying. Pity.
I am quite certain that in much of England, the mood in this regard is NOT for jokes ! I however nevertheless fear that the Brits are not to consider a merger of their "national" football-teams, whenever it would simply be normal as the UK is ONE country.
Quoting Andreas (Reply 7): a UK team would be pretty much the same as the English one
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9297 posts, RR: 42 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2300 times:
Quoting Oly720man (Reply 2): A lack of decent, and uninjured, players and a manager to keep it simple and consistent.
True, to a certain extent, but it's got to come down to management. Look at the world class players they have and yet they look very average when they pull on an England shirt.
Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 13): thats englands problem - arrogance! they go into every game and tournament expecting to win. When they fail they quickly find a scape goat, be it beckham, rooney, or usually - the manager.
I don't believe the players have been arrogant. Yes, the English media and many of the supporters lost the plot yet again and after some of the very condescending remarks about Scotland recently, they can't expect much sympathy.
Talking of Beckham, it's interesting that, yet again, the man McClaren didn't want to use again turned the tide last night. Not quite enough but he made a difference. And some still think he's overrated!
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12): I however nevertheless fear that the Brits are not to consider a merger of their "national" football-teams, whenever it would simply be normal as the UK is ONE country.
If we'd started out as one team, fine. But we didn't and we'd rather switch to following another sport than merge our football teams. I'm not sure you've quite grasped the concept of following a team. Do you think it would be a popular move for Grasshopper and FC Zurich to merge to increase their chances of success? They're both Zurich teams so, according to you, their fans should welcome it.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54 Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2282 times:
Quoting Andreas (Reply 18): Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
a UK team would be pretty much the same as the English one
No, it would/will inlude Scottish players
It'd be hard to see any Scots players getting into a combined team. McFadden perhaps, that's about it. No Welsh, no Northern Irish. This always crops up, and no matter how many times we say it, it doesn't seem to get through. NO-ONE wants it, not English, not Scottish, not anyone. As to why it is the way it is, that's because we invented the bloody game, played it internationally before anyone else, and as with most sports, each nation plays individually. The Olympics is one of the very few occasions we compete as a unified team.
Now, having put that frankly silly debate back to bed where it belongs....
Andreas, I mentioned to you a year and a half ago that I thought something had broken in terms of the relationship between England fans and the team, and all you're seeing now is the results of that in terms of reaction. People can easily cope with a side not being very good, as long as they give it their all. Everyone, from whatever corner of these islands, and beyond, has nothing but the deepest admiration for Scotland and the way their players fight and work for each other to get results. If England had even half of their attitude they'd be winning competitions, let alone qualifying - because that's the difference between teams at the top level where overall ability is similar. Germany in the last World Cup were very similar, and they nearly went the whole way with a limited side.
But they don't. As I said on the other thread, England fans - everyone you met - was half-hoping for the result last night to be as it was because then finally, FINALLY it might wake a few people up.
We can talk about the number of English players in the Premier League, but the cream will always get through, and you can't tell me that John Terry for example didn't benefit from playing alongside, and learning from a player as special as Marcel Desailly.
But the scandal is in the structure. England don't even have a national academy for young players, for heaven's sake. Compare that with France, who have a fairly rubbish national league, but who produce players left right and centre. English football is entirely in the hands of the clubs, who don't give a stuff about the national team, and just care about how many shirts they can sell in China. They're stupid and short-sighted too, because when England fail, it impacts on the interest level in club football; it's in their interests for England to do well.
England DO have good players. There is an issue about the depth of the quality, because when the first choice lot are injured there's a worrying absence of quality to come in. Nevertheless, the real problem is that even when the first-choice players are all out there, they play appallingly. England didn't fail to qualify because of a one off result, they didn't qualify because over a 12 game campaign they weren't good enough, in what really was a piss-easy group. Croatia are a good side, but for England to fail to finish even second....?
The whole world must laugh at quite how inept they are when they step on the field. And let's not just load it all the manager either, because for all the nonsense thrown at him, Eriksson is a fine, fine coach, and HE couldn't get them to play either, nor was he responsible for their inability to hit the target from 12 yards.
So the malaise is much deeper set than the choice of the man in charge. When people criticise England players for a lack of desire in the shirt, others come out and say it ain't so. Well, what then? They don't LOOK like they really care, whatever they may say - the likes of Beckham being honourable exceptions - and if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
As to what next? Well, who in their right mind would want to take on the England team? No tournament next year, and no prospect of one till 2010. No top level manager is going to want that job. And even if they did, I wonder how much of a difference it would make. England are getting outplayed by teams with lower quality players, run by managers who have a lot less top level experience than any England one.
And finally, the press. Well, we all know that the tabloid media are bastards. But they still aren't the ones who cross the white line. Whatever you may think of them (and I think very little of them) they aren't the ones responsible for the performances.
[Edited 2007-11-22 02:48:28]
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2258 times:
Quoting Banco (Reply 21): Andreas, I mentioned to you a year and a half ago that I thought something had broken in terms of the relationship between England fans and the team, and all you're seeing now is the results of that in terms of reaction. People can easily cope with a side not being very good, as long as they give it their all. Everyone, from whatever corner of these islands, and beyond, has nothing but the deepest admiration for Scotland and the way their players fight and work for each other to get results. If England had even half of their attitude they'd be winning competitions, let alone qualifying - because that's the difference between teams at the top level where overall ability is similar. Germany in the last World Cup were very similar, and they nearly went the whole way with a limited side.
Funny I just posted something similar in another Forum...yes indeed, one of the major problems.
Quoting Banco (Reply 21): England don't even have a national academy for young players, for heaven's sake. Compare that with France, who have a fairly rubbish national league, but who produce players left right and centre.
Yes one of the great achievements of the French, Italy as well, Netherlands (at least Ajax) and in Germany we've just started to build it up on a broader basis.
Quoting Banco (Reply 23): He was absolutely abysmal apart from that though.
Yes indeed, and besides, that penalty was a joke in itself...in PL no Ref would dare!!!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
25 Oly720man: And how often they seem to be world class for their club sides... because they can be lifted by the other (overseas) superstars? Well, only once (tha
26 Banco: Maybe. But if you look at comparable sides, the Germanys, Frances, Italys etc, you can't tell me that they have that many players who you'd prefer to
27 ME AVN FAN: - The ZSC Lions is the result of the merger of two Icehockey Teams. http://www.zsc-lions.ch/team/geschichte.cfm The reason was just similar to the pr
28 Andreas: Certainly not since April...which was the last time Ballack was close to a football match. But aside from that....it is a fact that basically all Eng
29 BHXFAOTIPYYC: The general problem, not just confined to England, is that footballers are a bunch of overpaid hairdressers. The days when playing for your national t
30 Andreas: But then they're welcome to visit anyway, and it would be fun for them, too...Drinking, sunbathing, and all that without those frustrating hours at a
31 Banco: Yes, but you never know if Englishmen will be international top coaches or not, because the moneybags clubs just go straight for a ready-made foreign
32 Alessandro: I think Fabio Cappello would be a good choice of manager.
33 Klaus: As it is now, it reminds me fatally of that old horror movie cliche where a small group of people infiltrates the lair of the monster and then glorio
34 Banco: England fans go to tournaments in bigger numbers than any other nation. And now the nutters are prevented from travelling, the actually do tend to be
35 Banco: It's as feasible as Germany unifying with France on the football field. Why don't you just accept that?
36 Andreas: Yes same happened in Germany in 2000.....remember that EC (Portugal) we have all agreed not to mention again...EVER!!! Ribbeck was kicked, up came po
37 ME AVN FAN: If the Brits stay away from the Euro-08 it simply will be a loss, the Croatian fans can never make up, and so, that thing is most regrettable indeed
38 Banco: Sorry, I didn't realise there was a tournament that year... Perhaps. It doesn't impact the structural problems though.
39 Banco: Wrong comparison again. Let's get one thing clear, we have played as separate nations for 130 years. Before any of you lot played football. And quite
40 Klaus: You can table that point again when Germany and France should have a common national government but still separate football teams. The whole point of
41 Andreas: Exactly! Yes he did...in his own stubborn way...and THAT is what or rather who you need, no matter Who exactly! No need to be rude, really!!
42 Klaus: No, that is exactly the correct comparison! And what good has that done you recently? Sure, but just picking on you is even more fun...!
43 ME AVN FAN: THIS possibly is just THE problem !? - not yet --- not yet !
44 BHXFAOTIPYYC: ... although we did seem to spend a lot of money on stadia around that time.... I certainly can't remember who won it if there was
45 Andreas: Infrastructural needs, wasn't it? Funny how these things slip the mind...at the same time in different countries
46 Wunala: Who cares? England lost, so therefore are not the best team in the comp. Get over it, you should be used to loosing by now. (and we ain't talking just