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If Colombia And Venezuela Go To War.......  
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Chavez To Freeze Relations With Colombia (by Captaink Nov 25 2007 in Non Aviation)

This thread got me thinking......if Venezuela and Colombia were to start an armed conflict between them, what do you believe to be the answers to the following questions.....

1.- Based on military equipment and training, what country would have the upper hand in the air, land and sea?

2.- Colombia is very experienced in guerilla warfare, is the Venezuelan army trained to counteract this?

3.- Has Venezuela been able to fully integrate all the recent military purchases?

4.- Would the US help Colombia by means of intelligence, training, equipment?......or even get directly involved?

What do you think?


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Those questions only marginally touch military aviation and hence should be moved to the NonAv Forum.

User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

I do not think a majority of that war would be fought in the air. Colombia has significant interest in their drug operations to protect it to the end. They also have a big war-chest for military spending. Venezuela has a better air force, but that can't win a war that will be fought in the jungle.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8943 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2723 times:



Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):

4.- Would the US help Colombia by means of intelligence, training, equipment?......or even get directly involved?

The Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (commonly known as the Rio Treaty, the Rio Pact, or by the Spanish-language acronym TIAR from Tratado Interamericano de Asistencia Recíproca) was an agreement ratified on 1947 in Rio de Janeiro[1] among many American countries. The central principle contained in its articles is that an attack against one is to be considered an attack against them all; this was known as the "hemispheric defense" doctrine.

Signatories:
Argentina, Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela.


I'm still inclined to believe such a scenario is very unlikely, at least a full-blown war, but would be nice to see tensions calm down. Chavez totally over-reacted in regards to what happened in Colombia.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2707 times:



Quoting N74JW (Reply 2):
Colombia has significant interest in their drug operations to protect it to the end.

No, those would be the FARC, who may side with Hugo Chávez in case Venezuela declares war against Colombia. The Colombian government is on the US side of the War on Drugs, remember? If, then it's Bolivia who has a possible drug operation to protect (Evo Morales, who himself is politically backed by Chávez, was originally a coca farmer before become Bolivian President).


User currently offlineN74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2686 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
remember?

Sure, if you believe the Colombian government is not in on the MASSIVE drug industry in it's own country, then I have a bridge over the Delaware River you may be interested in purchasing. Wake up... As long as people in Colombia, Mexico, and the US are making money from drugs coming out of Colombia, it will never stop.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2590 times:



Quoting N74JW (Reply 2):
a war that will be fought in the jungle.

Will such a war really be fought in the jungle ? Or will it be a matter about the larger cities ? And are the Colombian troops really so much geared for fighting in the jungle. National "ideology" sometimes differs from realities, so that I might question the readiness of those people living in the jungles to risk their lives for the "Republic of Colombia". In this I may be in a complete error, so that any Colombian to tacke these questions might be welcome.


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Colombia would be backed by the US in such a conflict, and probably come out on top, due to superior technologies and fighting tactics. Our Intelligence would definitely help as well.
Venezuela could cause problems by surging funds to leftist guerrilla groups in Colombia to create inner turmoil, but in the end, Colombia would triumph.
I think Chavez is stupid, but not stupid enough to risk an all out war with his Andean neighbors and in effect, the US.

The US already has personnel in there now unofficially, it wouldn't take much to get more support in there though.


User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2562 times:



Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
2.- Colombia is very experienced in guerilla warfare, is the Venezuelan army trained to counteract this?

Probably not nearly as well, but no biggie. Their FARC comrades would take care of the jungle front.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7125 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2557 times:



Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
This thread got me thinking......if Venezuela and Colombia were to start an armed conflict between them, what do you believe to be the answers to the following questions.....

Highly doubt this will happen. I dont think Chavez is that stupid. Not only do I think Colombia can handle Venezuela by itself but Columbia will get help from the US and the US will just not allow Columbia to lose if war did every break out which I highly doubt it will.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

There is no reason for a war, what happens now it´s a diplomatic incident and should be solved soon. Right now both Countries aren´t fight for land or for oil sources...so there is no reason for an attack...
In fact both Countries have an economic relation and the flow of product to and from each Country has been increasing through the last years.
There is a war, but only a war of words...should be fixed soon...Colombia has been always very diplomatic and there is no chance of shoot, even more when we consider Venezuela as our twin brother.



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2504 times:



Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
1.- Based on military equipment and training, what country would have the upper hand in the air, land and sea?

The US will have its perfect excuse to invade Venezuela through "Plan Colombia"

Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
2.- Colombia is very experienced in guerilla warfare, is the Venezuelan army trained to counteract this?

Yes, that's how they annihilate any thoughtful mind.

Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
3.- Has Venezuela been able to fully integrate all the recent military purchases?

I hope not.

Quoting Marcus (Thread starter):
4.- Would the US help Colombia by means of intelligence, training, equipment?......or even get directly involved?

The US is already involved on Colombia's side, even though it's for drugs and not the Drug Addict (Chavez).

Gaston - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Whenever Colombia has the USA behind it, Guyana the U.K. and Brazil its own size, given the unpredictability and emotional fits of Chavez, the situation is dangerous nevertheless.

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2456 times:
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Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
will it be a matter about the larger cities

Not unless they get through the jungle.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
Will such a war really be fought in the jungle

Yes, if it is fought the jungles will be battlefields.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
are the Colombian troops really so much geared for fighting in the jungle

yes.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4302 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Actually, Iran could get involved, and Cuba (through covert means which they still can cause serious problems for all countries), on the side of Venezuela.

Wow, WWIII could start in South America?

Argentina would stay neutral, again, of course.  Wink



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Maybe not full blown war but what about border skirmishes?.....just like the one between Peru and Ecuador a few years back.

Venezuela has already been involved in situations like this with it's neighbours in recent times, so it is not a crazy idea.....Chavez has recently gone on a shopping spree for military equipment, do it's neighbours have something similar in capability to counter this threat?

I know that this scenario sounds far fetched, but do you really think that he's been arming himself because the US is just dying to invade Venezuela?....or is he planning something that might make the US react in that way?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks..........I hope we could have a man like him down here to confront the problems that Uruguay have.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2328 times:



Quoting PU752 (Reply 16):
Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks

Excuse me? You like that murderer dictator, a man who has eliminated civil liberties and human rights in Venezuela?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

If Venezuela wars on Columbia, Hugo better realize the only one in the America's on his side-besided Alberchico will be Fidel Castro. The U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina-well, the entire hemisphere, in fact, will be lined up against him, and he wouldn't survive an all-out conflict, wherre Columbia is being given U.S. assistance, and probably U.S. assets to fight the confict.

Quoting PU752 (Reply 16):
Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks..........I hope we could have a man like him down here to confront the problems that Uruguay have.

Uh, I stand corrected-someone else likes that thug as well.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2296 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
The U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina-well, the entire hemisphere, in fact, will be lined up against him

USA... the electorate won't be in the mood for any armed conflicts in the foreseeable future.
Canada... eh?
Mexico... bound by the Estrada Doctrine of ''nonintervention in the affairs of another state."
Brazil... in the words of Carlos Alberto Montaner, "a giant with feet of clay and a soccer ball for a head."
Argentina... countries in the southern cone would remain indifferent.
Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, and Nicaragua... all firmly on Chavez's side.
Panama... abolished its modest armed forces soon after the fall of Noriega.
Any remaining countries that might be sympathetic to Colombia... militarily irrelevant in this context.

As for the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (1947) aka Rio Treaty, former Mexican President Fox once called it "useless and obsolete" prior to withdrawing from the pact altogether.

Quoting PU752 (Reply 16):
Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks..........I hope we could have a man like him down here to confront the problems that Uruguay have.

The kid is suicidal. Here's a book for you to read after school.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2277 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
The Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (commonly known as the Rio Treaty, the Rio Pact, or by the Spanish-language acronym TIAR from Tratado Interamericano de Asistencia Recíproca) was an agreement ratified on 1947 in Rio de Janeiro[1] among many American countries. The central principle contained in its articles is that an attack against one is to be considered an attack against them all; this was known as the "hemispheric defense" doctrine.

Signatories:
Argentina, Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela.

The cuban govt has been a thorn on the US side and has instigated conflict trying to push communism in central america. This treaty lost it's validity since the 60s when Cuba formed and alliance with the Soviets really.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 17):
Quoting PU752 (Reply 16):
Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks

Excuse me? You like that murderer dictator, a man who has eliminated civil liberties and human rights in Venezuela?

I wouldn't even waste my time LTU...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
If Venezuela wars on Columbia

Columbia, Maryland? If El Loco Hugo is loco enough to start a war with us he's getting nuked.

you mean ColOmbia.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2261 times:



Quoting PU752 (Reply 16):
Go Chavez! I really like him and the he thinks..........I hope we could have a man like him down here to confront the problems that Uruguay have.

-
I presume you are joking ?


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2257 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
I presume you are joking ?

Are you surprised? The millions of uneducated miserables keep electing these types in Latin America, sadly.


One look at the Chavez supporters and they look like they're related to the indigents that wanted Lopez Obrador to win in Mexico.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2236 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):
I presume you are joking ?

Are you surprised?

In a way yes, as I supposed that it by now would be clear to people using the internet, that Mr Chavez is what is called a Hazardeur in the worst possible sense.


User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2212 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):
The millions of uneducated miserables keep electing these types in Latin America, sadly.

I find quite an aggressive answer from you though......everyone can have their opinion in politics so whats the deal if I support Chavez? thats makes me uneducated and miserable, who says? you? lol ......fortunately I have a good education, a good social level, and the best profession in the world, Pilot.


25 HuskyAviation : The US might feed Colombia intelligence, but it would be extremely unlikely the US would take sides in public (and even less likely, get involved), e
26 Falcon84 : Wrong. When it comes to old Hugo, fair or not, the U.S. is going to take public sides, and will take the sides of those opposing Chavez, since he is
27 HuskyAviation : I think the US and even Bush realize that Chavez won't be there forever, and Venezuela can be a very important trading partner (read: oil). US policy
28 Falcon84 : Just my opinion, based on the current relations between the two nations, and Chavez's constant saber-rattling. He'd be virtually isolated if he opens
29 ME AVN FAN : well, this leads to a few questions : > do you think that Mr Chavez will have success in the end + reconcile his brand of socialism with economic pro
30 ME AVN FAN : Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 25): the US would try to stay as neutral as possible - I would WELCOME a "staying neutral" of the USA, whatever the outco
31 SBBRTech : Yep, i bet on that, if anything happens at all. What would anyone, even HChaves profit from such conflict....maybe cheaper cocaine? That might really
32 N710PS : Views like that are certainly not going to make you any pals on this site. I reccomend a little reasearch into his history and actions in recent time
33 MIA : They should goto war. The Venezuelan Army could not fight itself out of a paper bag. The only problem I would foresee is that Cuba will provide Venezu
34 B752fanatic : Why should they be a war? are you willing to actively fight on the lines for the Colombian side or are you going to be another armchair war combatant
35 PU752 : You're probably right, its not that Im a politics fan or something like that.........I just like the guy and how he talks its kinda funny thats it ,
36 Bongo : Colombia in English is Columbia... in German Kolumbien...in French Colombie, and so on... The word comes from the great discover called Columbus (Col
37 AndesSMF : I respecfully disagree. Colombia is Colombia, not Columbia (which are plenty of places in the US). In a similar vein, Ecuador is Ecuador in English,
38 Post contains links LTU932 : The name Columbia was apparently the very first name of the United States, however it seems to have fallen out of use once the Republic of Colombia in
39 TheCol : I wouldn't be to sure about that. It wouldn't take much for the US to get involved. At the very least, the US will be sending money and supplies down
40 AndesSMF : They already have. After all, Chavez is for the poor, not the middle class or higher.
41 LTU932 : Chávez isn't even for the poor. He's just for himself and his personal ambitions and interests. Chávez simply uses the poor as a means to an end, a
42 MIAMIx707 : No it's not, you are pretty uneducated bro, unless you're kidding? Find out what Columbia means in English. Yes it's a common mistake made but that d
43 MIAMIx707 : um, lol sure it is... cheers
44 ME AVN FAN : - He is not the first in history to use the poor to get up and then rely on his apparatchiks - - AND, I have just on Tuesday seen a report about his
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