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Driving From MUC To BUD Questions...  
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1401 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Hi,

From Dec. 21 to Jan. 1st my buddy and I want to buy a ticket from YYC to BUD and it comes out pretty damn expensive. It's about 2000/person dollars with BA. If I buy one to MUC, it'll only be 1500 / person, which means we'll have 1000 dollars to rent a car and have a nice drive there. We can see a bit of Germany, Austria (maybe go into Bratislava) and of course Hungary. I have a few questions:

1. How long will it take me to drive from MUC to BUD? Google maps sais it's about 1000 km and it will take me about 10 hours. Is that realistic? Can you average out at 100 km/h?

2. Would you recomend an economy car? (I'd like to keep it cheap, but also think about possible winter driving conditions)

3. How much is the liter of gas in Germany / Austria / Hungary?

Any other advice?

Thanks,

Vio


Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSv2008 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Biggest problem might be taking a hire car into another country.

And petrol is very expensive.

[Edited 2007-11-27 11:04:54]

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1642 times:



Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
Can you average out at 100 km/h?

You could, but the problem is local traffic jams. The good thing is that crossing the border into Austria won't be a problem because the border is open thanks to Schengen and you don't need a Schengen visa. This eliminates whatever delay you would have encountered at the German-Austrian border due to customs. However I'd contact the Hungarian and Slovakian embassies first about crossing the border between Austria and Slovakia/Hungary by car, just in case.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
Would you recomend an economy car?

A mid sized compact car (around the size of a Peugeot 207 for example) or a regular sedan should be good enough for casual driving between countries.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Have you thought about taking the train?

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
Can you average out at 100 km/h?

If you are driving straight through, probably. The speed limit in Austria, which is where most of your driving will be, is 130 km/h, and you should easily get the same 20 km/h upward pad you get in Canada.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):


3. How much is the liter of gas in Germany / Austria / Hungary?

Expensive/Less Expensive/Least Expensive

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):

2. Would you recomend an economy car? (I'd like to keep it cheap, but also think about possible winter driving conditions)

European economy cars are well built for winter driving.

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 1):
Biggest problem might be taking a hire car into another country.

In general, I believe you can take rentals into any EU country without too much issue. At times, there are restrictions on the level of car, so getting something like a 207 might be your best bet.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
However I'd contact the Hungarian and Slovakian embassies first about crossing the border between Austria and Slovakia/Hungary by car, just in case.

Hungary and Slovakia implement Schengen for overland borders on the day you arrive in Europe. That means you shouldn't have an issue with border controls.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1621 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
If you are driving straight through, probably. The speed limit in Austria, which is where most of your driving will be, is 130 km/h, and you should easily get the same 20 km/h upward pad you get in Canada.

IIRC there were some experiments done in some parts of A1 with the speed limit increased to 160 km/h. I don't know in they kept it though.


User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1619 times:



Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 1):
And petrol is very expensive.

yes. I believe gas prices in Germany are aroud US $5.50 per gallon as of Late 2005.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
with the speed limit increased to 160 km/h.

you drive that speed, you wont get economy. Stick to the right lane @ not more than 120Kph.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1606 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
IIRC there were some experiments done in some parts of A1 with the speed limit increased to 160 km/h. I don't know in they kept it though.

I don't know either, but that would be cool.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):

yes. I believe gas prices in Germany are aroud US $5.50 per gallon as of Late 2005.

Apparently, they are less now than last year because of the exchange rates.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):

you drive that speed, you wont get economy. Stick to the right lane @ not more than 120Kph.

And get pulled over for going too slow. The speed limit on most Autobaehne in Austria is 130 km/h. Further, economy depends on a lot of factors. My car consumes less fuel at 90 than at 65



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1597 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
. The speed limit on most Autobaehne in Austria is 130 km/h. Further, economy depends on a lot of factors. My car consumes less fuel at 90 than at 65

huh? What car do you drive? I have never heard of a car that gets better fuel economy at higher speeds, Wind Resistance is the culprit no matter how aerodynamic your car past a certain point.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1593 times:



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
you drive that speed, you wont get economy. Stick to the right lane @ not more than 120Kph.

Please, not again  banghead 

I decide what's important for me - time saving or fuel economy. You may bet that if I'm in Europe spending my precious vacation time and I can save some time by driving fast legally, I'll do that.
PS: If you once get to EU, try to rent some smaller car, let's say Skoda Octavia with diesel engine and check your fuel economy while driving 160 km/h. You'd be surprised.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1591 times:



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 7):
What car do you drive?

You have seen my car.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1583 times:



Quoting Vio (Thread starter):



Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
In general, I believe you can take rentals into any EU country without too much issue. At times, there are restrictions on the level of car, so getting something like a 207 might be your best bet

Yes, I think is best if you check with the car rental company, last year I rented a car in France and drove all around europe and decided to drive from Berlin to Prague and they wouldnt let us since the car rental company didn't let anyone take the car out to some EU nations (more likely those Eastern European nations ex Communist bloc).

The problem was that we were stopped in the border and hotel reservations etc we lost since we couldn't continue with the car, so best bet if you are to decide on renting a car check to see if they will permit you to take into Hungary.



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1830 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1574 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The speed limit in Austria, which is where most of your driving will be, is 130 km/h

As far as I know, it's 140km/h, but not strictly enforced.


User currently offlineDc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

EU set a speed limit of 130km/h, so most countries abide by that for highways... Austria does, as does Hungary. Of course, Germany has the Autobahns, so it's sometimes different, but you can probably count on at least 130 in Germany.

Austria had cheaper gas than Hungary... last year, at least.


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

Hi Vio, I think we met at Calgary last May.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
1. How long will it take me to drive from MUC to BUD? Google maps sais it's about 1000 km and it will take me about 10 hours. Is that realistic? Can you average out at 100 km/h?

Yes thats certainly possible under normal circumstances. But google maps Link shows its only 684 km in 6 hours 11 minutes. If you take the rout which is shown on the link posted above you can easily average out at 100 km/h because most part of the german highways you are drivin are not speed restricted and the one from Munich Airport to Deggendorf is very well maintained because of the nearby BMW factory  Wink and their testdrives.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The speed limit in Austria, which is where most of your driving will be, is 130 km/h, and you should easily get the same 20 km/h upward pad you get in Canada.

 checkmark 

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
IIRC there were some experiments done in some parts of A1 with the speed limit increased to 160 km/h. I don't know in they kept it though.

The experiments where on a different highway and they have come to an end.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 11):
As far as I know, it's 140km/h, but not strictly enforced.

It's 130.



-
User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Hi,

premium gas is about 8$ / gallon at the moment here in Germany (1.45 Euro / liter X 1.47 Dollar / Euro). So driving is relatively expensive, especially when you bring Dollars.


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1830 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1516 times:



Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 13):
It's 130.

OK, thanks. I dunno where I got 140 from then...

When I lived there almost all the driving I experienced on highways was upwards of 150km/h.  Big grin


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

I've done that route over 15 times already.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
about 10 hours. Is that realistic? Can you average out at 100 km/h?

Yes. But in December and January, there can be tons of snow in Bavaria and Austria - in order to be comfortable, don't hurry and plan at least 12 hours.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
2. Would you recomend an economy car? (I'd like to keep it cheap, but also think about possible winter driving conditions)

An economy car should be ok. But be careful: if the roads are snow-covered and you are caught without winter tyres, you have a problem. To make matters worse, IIRC, rental cars usually don't come with winter tyres by default. Often you'll have to ask for them - and pay for them.

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
3. How much is the liter of gas in Germany / Austria / Hungary?

Here in southern Germany, near Munich, it's about 1.37-1.40 Euros. A hint: Diesel is only 1.30, and you'll consume less. But renting a Diesel might be more expensive.
In Austria, fuel is some 10-20 cents less.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The speed limit in Austria, which is where most of your driving will be, is 130 km/h, and you should easily get the same 20 km/h upward pad you get in Canada.

No. A buddy of mine got caught with 160, and they nearly took his licence away. IIRC he paid something like 300 Euros.

Speed limits in Austria are to be taken seriously. As mentioned above, the limit is 130 km/h on the autobahns. However, at night, this is mostly reduced to 110 km/h.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
And get pulled over for going too slow.

WTF?

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 8):
If you once get to EU, try to rent some smaller car, let's say Skoda Octavia with diesel engine and check your fuel economy while driving 160 km/h. You'd be surprised.

By European standards, an Octavia isn't a small car. And my advice: Get a diesel and check your fuel economy at 130 km/h. You'll be even more surprised.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1500 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
By European standards, an Octavia isn't a small car. And my advice: Get a diesel and check your fuel economy at 130 km/h. You'll be even more surprised.

Noooo, another teenage armchair driving instructor  banghead 


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1500 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
Noooo, another teenage armchair driving instructor

Do have any arguments to tell us? Yeah sure



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1492 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
No. A buddy of mine got caught with 160, and they nearly took his licence away. IIRC he paid something like 300 Euros.

The limit for loosing your license is 180 km/h here.

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
As mentioned above, the limit is 130 km/h on the autobahns. However, at night, this is mostly reduced to 110 km/h.

The night part is incorrect.



-
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Hey, thanks for all the answers everyone!!! I really appreciate all your feedback!!!

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
A mid sized compact car (around the size of a Peugeot 207 for example)

Yeah, looking at the car, it's not too bad. My friend and I can easily fit in it and bring two luggages as well.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Have you thought about taking the train?

Yeah, but it'll be too much hassle. I like to have mobility. If i was backpacking, then it'd be different.

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 10):
Yes, I think is best if you check with the car rental company, last year I rented a car in France and drove all around europe and decided to drive from Berlin to Prague and they wouldnt let us since the car rental company didn't let anyone take the car out to some EU nations (more likely those Eastern European nations ex Communist bloc).

That's a really good point. I may end up going to Romania as well (if we have time. I have some really good friends in Timisoara), but I have to make sure that I'm allowed to take the car there and also that my insurance will cover it.

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 13):
Hi Vio, I think we met at Calgary last May.

I think we did too. You were with the Austrian guys taking photos in the parking lot by Runway 34 at YYC. How did your trip to Vancouver go? Hope all is well. Thanks for all the info!!!

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 14):
premium gas is about 8$ / gallon at the moment here in Germany (1.45 Euro / liter X 1.47 Dollar / Euro). So driving is relatively expensive, especially when you bring Dollars.

Does that count if you bring CAD dollars??? (The loonie has stayed pretty much the same in comparisson to the Euro.

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
I've done that route over 15 times already

Wow!!! So you know what you're talking about !  Smile

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
Yes. But in December and January, there can be tons of snow in Bavaria and Austria - in order to be comfortable, don't hurry and plan at least 12 hours.

Awesome. I'd be okay with even 15 hours of driving. I'm not a speed demon, so I don't really care to go too fast.

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
An economy car should be ok. But be careful: if the roads are snow-covered and you are caught without winter tyres, you have a problem. To make matters worse, IIRC, rental cars usually don't come with winter tyres by default. Often you'll have to ask for them - and pay for them.

Very good advice! I shall ask them for that

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
Here in southern Germany, near Munich, it's about 1.37-1.40 Euros. A hint: Diesel is only 1.30, and you'll consume less. But renting a Diesel might be more expensive.
In Austria, fuel is some 10-20 cents less.

So would the $(Euros) I'd save on fuel justify renting a Diesel?

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
No. A buddy of mine got caught with 160, and they nearly took his licence away. IIRC he paid something like 300 Euros.

Speed limits in Austria are to be taken seriously. As mentioned above, the limit is 130 km/h on the autobahns. However, at night, this is mostly reduced to 110 km/h.

I've only been pulled over for speeding once (in LA), but the cop let me go with a warning. I was doing 35mph on a 30 zone. I always drive the speed limit.

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
By European standards, an Octavia isn't a small car. And my advice: Get a diesel and check your fuel economy at 130 km/h. You'll be even more surprised.

So I take it it's pretty good then huh?


THANKS AGAIN GUYS!!!!!!! YOU ROCK!!!!



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1483 times:



Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 19):
The limit for loosing your license is 180 km/h here.

Alright, maybe they threatened to revoke it temporarily only.

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 19):
The night part is incorrect.

Are you sure? At least on the A1 (that's the route I've always taken) it has been 110 km/h in the night for many years. Has it been lifted?

Quoting Vio (Reply 20):
So would the $(Euros) I'd save on fuel justify renting a Diesel?

As I've already said, it depends on the rental price, which I don't know very well. If you rent a compact car, I'd say the diesel will save you 1.50 Euro/100km. Once you obtain the quotes, do the math.  Smile

Quoting Vio (Reply 20):
So I take it it's pretty good then huh?

Yes.  Smile



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1477 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 18):
Do have any arguments to tell us? Yeah sure

You know, what you wrote had zero information value. If you compare 130 and 160 with the same vehicle, the results are obvious, but if you're comparing, lets say, an US Accord with a 2.5 l gasoline engine and 4 AT at 120 and the Octavia 1.9 TDi with 6MT at 160, the results may be surprising for many.

Quoting Vio (Reply 20):
So I take it it's pretty good then huh?

According to the board computer (Octavia 1, 1.9 TDi, 5 MT ) it was around 4.8 l/100 km. But I was alone in the car with my toolkit and some spare parts. BTW, how are your manual transmission skills?


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1477 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
An economy car should be ok. But be careful: if the roads are snow-covered and you are caught without winter tyres, you have a problem. To make matters worse, IIRC, rental cars usually don't come with winter tyres by default. Often you'll have to ask for them - and pay for them.

I don't think so. Every serious car rental company in Munich (and the whole Alp region, like Switzerland and Austria) will or even must provide winter tyres. It am sure that insurances would not allow anything else.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1469 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
but if you're comparing, lets say, an US Accord with a 2.5 l gasoline engine and 4 AT at 120 and the Octavia 1.9 TDi with 6MT at 160, the results may be surprising for many.

Did I doubt that? I meant that when you're driving a gasoline and a diesel car at the same speed (~130 km/h), the difference is even more staggering.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
According to the board computer (Octavia 1, 1.9 TDi, 5 MT ) it was around 4.8 l/100 km.

At 160 km/h? I don't doubt that the board computer displayed this number, but sometimes the indicated figure is a bit of an understatement...



Exceptions confirm the rule.
25 LAXspotter : WOW what is the Euro to Dollar about 1 = 1.5? I'll have to change my ways of driving.
26 Vio : I don't have a manual car here in Canada, but I can drive one without a problem. I like automatic transmitions, because I like to drink my coffee in
27 WildcatYXU : No, it was 130 km/h. Vio answered to you, so I gave him the figure. Never tried it at 160 km/h. However, our company Astra B Caravan 2.0 dLI was able
28 LTU932 : We had a predecessor of the 207 (it was a winered Peugeot 205 with a Diesel engine), and despite its size, we managed to cram in all the luggage (and
29 Post contains links and images A342 : Yep, at the moment it's 1.477. Multiply the dollar value by 3.78, and voila , a gallon pf premium gasoline is $7.82 in Germany. BTW, the difference b
30 A342 : Alright, that's entirely possible.
31 WildcatYXU : No worries, same as Canada Quite true, but the cars are smaller and much less thirsty Don't rent a German brand and don't leave anything visible in t
32 Andrej : as far as I am aware, the border between AUS-SVK is no more (No passport control). You should not have any problems to enter SVK, since there is no v
33 LTU932 : Cool. Welcome to Schengen, Slovakia! Very soon you all will appreciate the perks of having an open border. Despite being in another continent for ove
34 N1120A : 160 km/h is doable in pretty much any modern car, except perhaps the Smart FourTwo You are kidding right? He let you go because you can beat anything
35 Post contains images Andrej : Well....thank You! I completely agree with you. Having spend 9 years in the US I appreciate the ability of free movement form one state to another. I
36 WildcatYXU : The sped limits in HUN are 50/80/120 No yet. SVK has been formally accepted to Schengen a month ago, but the passport control at the borders will dis
37 Post contains links A342 : Sure. I was referring to the 4.8l/100km consumption figure which I thought was at 160km/h. Not quite. The same fuel has different octane numbers in E
38 Andrej : Sorry, for messing things up. So Vio does not need to worry, since he will be in Europe from 21st, right? Andrej
39 N1120A : I realize that, but 95 RON is equal to the 91 (R+M)/2 that is the highest grade generally available in the US. And I am sure he wasn't off.
40 A342 : I don't quite understand what you mean.
41 N1120A : I mean 4.8l/100 km is totally possible, even at 160 km/h.
42 Vio : Yeah, I'll be there on the Dec. 21st or the 22nd at the very latest. It all depends on the date I leave Calgary, because we always arrive in europe +
43 A342 : Hardly. Maybe in a 3L VW Lupo. Anyway, it was 4.8l/100km at 130 km/h.
44 WildcatYXU : VIE-BTS is indeed 50 km on the old road trough Hainburg. The highway connection is longer, but obviously faster. Now I realized another small complica
45 TripleDelta : My Skadillac, a sedan Tour version (last of the original Octavias) with the 1.9 liter 101 HP TDi gives me a nice 5.5-6.0 l/100 km/h at 130 km/h, clim
46 WildcatYXU : Well, the difference may be caused by the different engine, this one was the 90 bhp TDi (black i), level highway and light load.
47 Andrej : I think that you are right. The stretch from the border to BTS is for free. I think that once you leave BTS, direction to Trnava you need to have a s
48 BigOrange : Not a problem as long as you tell them when you pick up the rental car so that you get the insurance coverage for those countries. One thing to bear
49 Dc9northwest : Hmm... Get a Skoda, for example... There'll be other, better, cars to steal from around, most likely. Considering at night, in Bucharest at least, it
50 Post contains images Vio : Yeah. That's very true. My friend has a 2006 BMW in Timisoara and he's never had anyone break in it, but you never know. The chance of that happenini
51 Post contains links BREmer : Vio, there is a Euro City (high speed international train) from Munich to Budapest every morning. Fares start from 29 Euros per person and if you book
52 Post contains images N1120A : By interstates I guess you mean highways . I am betting the toll is included if you rent in Austria, but this would be a rental in Germany, which wou
53 Post contains images Iwok : I definitely recommend the train or get a separate ticked on Air Berlin or another LCC. Unless you get a nice big Benz or Bimmer, you might want to a
54 A342 : Unfortunately, no LCC flies from MUC to BUD. But Vio, there might be another option for you: LH charges a relatively moderate 180 Euros return fare o
55 Post contains images Damirc : Just a few things you shouldn't forget. For Austria you'll need the "Autobahn Vignette" (obtainable at any petrol station before the Austrian border -
56 LTU932 : Is the A8 really so bad? I'm curious because I don't know if, when we made the trip to Salzburg, if we took the A8 from Traunstein (we have a few rel
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