Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Voluntary Flat Tax Proposed  
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010918

Quote:
Fred Thompson's Presidential campaign has been struggling, in part because of a sense that he lacks passion and an agenda. But late last week he unveiled a tax reform that is more ambitious than anything we've seen so far from the rest of the GOP field.

Mr. Thompson wants to abolish the death tax and the Alternative Minimum Tax and cut the corporate income tax rate to 27% from 35%. But his really big idea is a voluntary flat tax that would give every American the option of ditching the current code in favor of filing a simple tax return with two tax rates of 10% and 25%.

Mr. Thompson is getting aboard what has become a global bandwagon, with more than 20 nations having adopted some form of flat tax. Most--especially in Eastern Europe--have seen their economies grow and revenues increase as they've adopted low tax rates of between 13% and 25% with few exemptions.

I love this idea. The exact level of taxation (10%, 25% or maybe additional steps in between) is irrelevant, because that can easily be adjusted any time. But the principle of the thing is wonderful, and fully in keeping with the idea that the U.S. government is "Of the People, By the People and For the People", by making your taxes only one page, just a few lines and can be completed in just a few minutes.

Right now, our Government is "Of the bureaucrats, By the lawyers and For the tax accountants"

Thoughts?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1475 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):

That would be a Godsend! Personally, I'd love a flat tax instead of our BS...


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1465 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

Oh hell yeah.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

I'd take a flat tax any time . . .

Bring it on.

I much preferred the system in Germany when I lived there.

Does need to be a cap on the thing though . . . wouldn't wanna by a new $50K BAFDT and end up paying another $5K in taxes for example.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10989 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Mr. Thompson wants to abolish the ... Alternative Minimum Tax

I'm glad SOMEONE has finally said it! The AMT is on pace to affect over 1/3 of tax payers in the next couple of years. That's amazing considering that it was originally intended to nail the 100 or so super-rich people nationwide that had managed to loophole their way out of paying tax altogether back in the 30's (or whenever it was).
As for completely eliminating it, I'm not for that. I still want to keep those 100 people paying taxes.

As for the death tax, much ado about nothing. You're DEAD! You don't need that money anymore. And if your family, partners, or friends needed it, then set it up so they get it before you die. This is what we call a politicized issue.

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
a voluntary flat tax that would give every American the option of ditching the current code in favor of filing a simple tax return with two tax rates of 10% and 25%.

You mean I don't get to deduct the interest on my house?

AW HELLS NO!!! NO FREAKIN' WAY.


Edit: just read it again -- I'd be able to choose to deduct, vs. pay a flat tax.
That's a MASSIVE tax break to the high wage renters out there. Who's going to pay for that?

[Edited 2007-11-28 14:15:41]


Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

A flat tax would be great. Then normal people could calculate it instead of buying a computer program or going someplace to do it.

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

Never happen. There are too many special intersts from financial services companies, to tax preparers, to the real estate industry, to small business owners and of course the rich who like the current complicated and convoluted Federal tax system.
Perhaps a better way to eliminate the ATM is to cap all kinds of itemized deductions including tax exempt income (like from municipal bond interest), mortage interest, property taxes and the like on on incomes below $100,000-$125,000 depending where you live. I would also not require anybody to pay income taxes on interest and dividend income below $2,500 a year, protecting small investors in stocks and basic cash savings (like of about $50,000-70,000). I would also still have a higher top tier at 30%, to cover expected Medicare costs.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10989 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1407 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
Perhaps a better way to eliminate the ATM is to cap all kinds of itemized deductions including tax exempt income (like from municipal bond interest), mortage interest, property taxes and the like on on incomes below $100,000-$125,000 depending where you live.

You ain't capping my mortgage interest!!!  mad 

Seriously, that's the kind of thing that will start a revolt.

In any event, most itemized deductions are capped, or lower limited. For instance, you can only claim a medical expense deduction to the extent that it is greater than 7.5% of your adjusted gross income. Also, you can only deduct student loan interest if you make less than about $60k (iirc). Kinda sucks when you have a $4500 medical bill or have $2000 in student loan interest, and can't deduct a dime of either because you make a whopping $60k.

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 5):
A flat tax would be great. Then normal people could calculate it instead of buying a computer program or going someplace to do it.

You can always do 1040EZ. One page, should take you about 10 minutes.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1386 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
Never happen. There are too many special intersts from financial services companies, to tax preparers, to the real estate industry, to small business owners and of course the rich who like the current complicated and convoluted Federal tax system.

Unfortunately, I agree. It would undo decades of government intermeddling with the tax code. It would take 1 President to make it his/her base agenda for the entire full term to pull it off. Not much else could distract the President during that time, either, with all the infighting, compromising and media storming that would ensue.

But I'd be all for it.  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I love this idea. The exact level of taxation (10%, 25% or maybe additional steps in between) is irrelevant



Actually the exact level is relevant - because it will be at least 30% and maybe as high as 42% - to bring in enough cash to run the government.

Of course if he is just talking about changing the Income Tax and not the other 10-15% of your salary which is eaten up by other hidden taxes - the rate might seem lower than it really is.

And I'm not including the 7.65% for FICA/ Social Security for employees - 15.3% for the self-employed.

George Bush had a name for these type half-baked proposals - Voodoo Economics.

[Edited 2007-11-28 17:14:42]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21081 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1349 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Does need to be a cap on the thing though . . . wouldn't wanna by a new $50K BAFDT and end up paying another $5K in taxes for example.

Seems like that would kind of defeat the purpose of a flat tax.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1329 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
That's a MASSIVE tax break to the high wage renters out there. Who's going to pay for that?

Buy cutting out the loopholes and tax dodges, it's more than made up for.

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
You can always do 1040EZ. One page, should take you about 10 minutes.

But there are a lot of restrictions to the EZ. You cannot have any children, or own any property, etc. etc.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 9):
Actually the exact level is relevant - because it will be at least 30% and maybe as high as 42% - to bring in enough cash to run the government.

The studies I have seen show that, if you close all the loopholes, the flat tax would be somewhere between 17 and 19% and still be revenue-neutral for the government. If you drop the lowest tier to 10%, the top tier would probably have to be around 25% to make up the difference, so Thompson's proposal is probably not terribly far off.

But what I meant was that tax rates can be adjusted at any time. The real challenge is to get Congress to accept the concept in the first place, eliminating all the loopholes and exceptions they have been putting in the tax code for their buddies for years, and gutting the IRS by 90%. Adjusting the tax rates for valid reasons is a breeze next to that.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1318 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 11):
The studies I have seen show that, if you close all the loopholes, the flat tax would be somewhere between 17 and 19% and still be revenue-neutral for the government. If you drop the lowest tier to 10%, the top tier would probably have to be around 25% to make up the difference, so Thompson's proposal is probably not terribly far off.

But what I meant was that tax rates can be adjusted at any time. The real challenge is to get Congress to accept the concept in the first place, eliminating all the loopholes and exceptions they have been putting in the tax code for their buddies for years, and gutting the IRS by 90%. Adjusting the tax rates for valid reasons is a breeze next to that.

It's a real shame, but none of the flat tax proposals will go anywhere. Congress would have to change the tax code, and while a revenue neutral flat tax would benefit both the government and the average American, it would end the ability of special interests to advance their interests in the Halls of Congress.

It's DOA, I'm afraid.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1317 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I love this idea.



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 1):
I'd love a flat tax instead of our BS...



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
Oh hell yeah.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I'd take a flat tax any time



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 5):
A flat tax would be great.



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 8):
I'd be all for it.

I completely agree. Let's vote for Thompson. He goes to gun shows, too.  Smile


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1294 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

i like the idea of a flat tax, though i'd rather see it be a net worth tax, rather than "income." set a flat rate of 10 percent of your net worth (so for Bill Gates, for instance, worth approximate 60 billion, he'd have to wire 6 billion to the government) and if you have no net worth, such as being homeless, on welfare, etc, you pay nothing. Of course the prerequisite would be canceling all the loopholes and investing your networth off shore for the specific purpose of avoiding the tax would get you prosecuted for tax evasion.

I'd also like to see the reporting system changed, rather than the taxpayer having to report to the government, it should be the other way around, at the end of the year, you recieve a statement from the IRS showing what was reported by your employer, investment houses, and etc, you can either accept it, or you can contest it.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Fair tax.

FAIR TAX!!!!!!

The problem is, many people are turned off by the idea before the argument can even be made. They hear "sales tax" and they immediately say no.

:The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue replacement, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment."

It would eliminate the IRS! The mecca of liberals, and the incarnation of pure evil for conservatives.

You would take home your entire paycheck, and you would be directly responsible for how you paid the federal government. The money wouldn't be stolen from you, before you ever saw it. And you would never have a day you needed to file before, or face penalties.

"To ensure no American pays tax on necessities, the Fair Tax Plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate (prebate) for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level. This, along with several other features, is how the Fair Tax completely untaxes the poor, lowers the tax burden on most, while making the overall rate progressive. However, the Fair Tax is progressive based on lifestyle/spending choices, rather than simply punishing those taxpayers who are successful."

The tax lowers the burden on all Americans

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/UH60PilotIraq/Random%201/800px-FairTax_married.png


It's a fascinating argument, and certainly one of the most in depth and intelligent proposals to come our way, in a long time.

Too many people say, "Oh we need to raise taxes" or "Oh we need to lower taxes" but never give the gritty details of HOW they will do that. But all the while, millions of Americans suffer under the current system and nothing is done to bail them out.

But with the Fair Tax, we have a new and fresh suggestion. Something neither side has given us in a long time. I think it's definitely worth looking at.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_basics_thumbnail

-UH60


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10989 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1270 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
It would eliminate the IRS! The mecca of liberals, and the incarnation of pure evil for conservatives.

Are you kidding me? Conservative politicians love the tax system moreso than liberals do, because it is a *perpetual* political hook to rope people into voting for them. Conservatives "fixing" the tax code would be like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Now, taxes are my most conservative issue, but let's call it like it is, okay? The IRS is the mecca of CONSERVATIVES.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1259 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 16):
Now, taxes are my most conservative issue, but let's call it like it is, okay? The IRS is the mecca of CONSERVATIVES.

Let's call it like it is: The IRS is the mecca of politicians. "Conservative" politicians also take refuge within. Conservatives includes voters like myself, who still go by the tainted name.  Smile


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1254 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
But late last week he unveiled a tax reform that is more ambitious than anything we've seen so far from the rest of the GOP field.

How can the author write that with a straight face? Ron Paul genuinely wants to end the income tax and disband the IRS. It just doesn't get more ambitious (or radical) than that.

To me, "voluntary" means 25% or 10% or ZERO PERCENT and I get to choose.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1240 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
"To ensure no American pays tax on necessities, the Fair Tax Plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate (prebate) for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level

Y'know, I really love the Fair Tax in theory - and yes, I've got Boortz' book on it - but this one part scares the hell outta me, since it would amount to the single largest government entitlement program in the history of mankind.

Making EVERYONE dependent (to some degree or another) on a monthly government check just rubs me the wrong way.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1219 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 14):
though i'd rather see it be a net worth tax, rather than "income." set a flat rate of 10 percent of your net worth (so for Bill Gates, for instance, worth approximate 60 billion, he'd have to wire 6 billion to the government)

You've been reading up on your Karl Marx, I see.

No, you tax income one time. That's fair. What you save up should be yours. What gives the government the right to raid your piggy bank every year?

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 18):
How can the author write that with a straight face? Ron Paul genuinely wants to end the income tax and disband the IRS. It just doesn't get more ambitious (or radical) than that.

He said GOP. Ron Paul is not a Republican, any more than that guy who signed up as a Republican so that he could present himself as a disgruntled republican to the media, even though the only campaign contributions he ever made were to Dems.



http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_...?st=&zip=94301&last=EDDY&first=JEB

There is no litmus test to be a member of the Republican Party.

Taqiyya is the Islamic concept of religiously sanctioned deception. In particular, it allows Muslims to disguise their religious beliefs, and even deny their Islamic faith, in order to protect themselves or advance Islamic conquest. (Taqiyya is a Shiite usage, while the doctrine of "war is deception" is common to Islam in general.)

Manipulation and deception are also primary tools of the Western left, even extending to the specific concept of deception about allegiences.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1209 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I much preferred the system in Germany when I lived there.

EXCUSE ME????????????????????????????????????????????

In which Germany did you live exactly? It can't be the one I've been living in for the last few decades. We have about the most horrible mess in terms of tax law, calculating taxable income and exceptions form the rules worldwide!

If I remember correctly about 60% of the world's commentary literature on taxes deals with German law.

I'm completely flabbergasted just how anyone on this planet is able to PREFER this system.

btw: When one of our large parties (CDU in this case) came up with a similar idea....2 or 3 flat rates, pretty low and abolishment of ALL 538 exceptions, the guy was virtually crucified by his own people...because nobody does understand tax law, and they were all afraid it could cut some of their personal tax holes as well....nobody actually cared to present a calculation as to HOW much everybody would GET out of such a tax reform.

And we have nowadays the same mess as before....and CDU is indeed part of the government!!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1180 times:



Quoting Andreas (Reply 21):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I much preferred the system in Germany when I lived there.

EXCUSE ME????????????????????????????????????????????

In which Germany did you live exactly? It can't be the one I've been living in for the last few decades.

Nope - 1979-1984 . . . so you're right . . . haven't lived there for a few decades. But when I did, I preferred the flat tax there.

Quoting Andreas (Reply 21):
I'm completely flabbergasted just how anyone on this planet is able to PREFER this system.

And I am equally flabbergasted at how anyone could prefer the monstrous cluster we have in the USA called the IRS. An abusive waste of US $$$$ . . .

Guess that makes us even  wink 


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1161 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
But when I did, I preferred the flat tax there.

ANC...there NEVER was a flat tax in Germany since WW II...and I suspect you're not THAT old.  Wink

And last time I checked WW II was BEFORE 1979....Thank God  silly 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
how anyone could prefer the monstrous cluster we have in the USA called the IRS.

Who does??



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3759 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1152 times:



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Right now, our Government is "Of the bureaucrats, By the lawyers and For the tax accountants"

The bureaucracy within the American IRS seems horribly complex and silly. Not that there isn't plenty of useless bureaucracy in Sweden too, but when I "do my taxes", I get an envelope from the Swedish IRS, where my income for the past year is stated and how much of that was paid in tax. If it looks correct, I send a text message to the IRS, and then I'm done.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
25 D L X : I don't think there is a trillion dollars in loopholes and tax dodges out there, unless you're calling deductions loopholes.
26 ANCFlyer : I guess I'm referring to the VAT - can't find the German spelling . . . at the time it was 13%.
27 Post contains images Andreas : Yes well, THAT is a flat rate nationwide (WITH exceptions, though)...13%   ....those were the days.... I was under the impression we're talking Inc
28 MD-90 : He's served multiple terms as a Republican congressman and you say he's not a Republican? You're right about one thing, though. He is a Taft Republic
29 HuskyAviation : The vast majority of normal people can figure out their taxes in about an hour. They don't have any special deductions, exemptions, or credits to mak
30 UH60FtRucker : And if Americans had to make a single payment of their annual taxes, there would be a revolt. Which might not be a bad thing! ------------------- So
31 Post contains images HuskyAviation : LOL, I'm not paid enough money to do my job AND rewrite/rethink the US tax code. I don't know if there is any one good answer, be it the fair tax, th
32 PPVRA : The "let us help you do your taxes" industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and that's a lot of money, energy and time diverted from productive g
33 HuskyAviation : And it also employs a tremendous amount of people--not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of those taxpayers getting help are getting tax refunds in any
34 PPVRA : True but tax bureaucrats don't really add any value to the economy, it's just political make-work sustained by the productive economy (and that inclu
35 Post contains images David L : Mehrwertsteuer? So was I. Having read the thread, I'm lost. Something about more than one flat rate? I was all set for my "the only fair tax rate is
36 Cfalk : I've taken those courses, and they don't need to be so complicated. Many of those statutes exist purely because of the complexity of tax law in the f
37 D L X : If I had a list of Congresspeople that were on board with that idea, I'd do what I could to keep them from being elected. $400K does not buy you much
38 Aaron747 : The faster we get a flat tax, the better. But like others on here have said, with both parties so beholden to special interests, I'm rather skeptical
39 MD-90 : As a citizen of the United States I have signed no contract, instead the government holds a gun to my head and demands my money "or else." That is si
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Flat Tax (part II) posted Thu Jan 17 2002 03:05:41 by Superfly
Proposed 1997 Tax On Airlines posted Thu Oct 20 2005 02:24:10 by VSLover
Buffett Says We Should Keep The Estate Tax posted Wed Nov 14 2007 18:55:17 by Acidradio
Cisco Execs Jailed In Brazil For Tax Fraud posted Tue Oct 16 2007 18:19:13 by SBBRTech
Rep. Dingell Wants To Tax Us Out Of Global Warming posted Thu Sep 27 2007 15:43:42 by RJdxer
Gas Is At $3 - Where Is The Extra Tax Revenue? posted Sun Sep 2 2007 19:57:46 by SSTsomeday
Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich posted Fri Aug 24 2007 17:56:12 by Pope
Scotland-N. Ireland Bridge Proposed posted Wed Aug 22 2007 16:38:04 by Nighthawk
Tax On Bottled Water posted Wed Aug 15 2007 15:50:26 by PAHS200
What's Up With Whitney Houston's Proposed Album? posted Tue Jul 24 2007 09:26:03 by United Airline