L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 841 times:
Try C or C++, those are about the two standard languages around now. Everybody just about learns with them...
If you want something a little more modern you may want to give ADA a shot but books on the C languages will be easier to find.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Hawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3088 posts, RR: 9 Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 834 times:
ADA? People use ADA?
I would recommend Java as a good language to learn, it is a elegant, modern object oriented language, and is very well documented on Sun's web site http://java.sun.com/. But be sure to use real Java, not Microsoft Visual J++. Many universities are using it in their introductory programming classes.
C is another interesting language, but can be rather daunting to learn. C++ is C with added object oriented ideas, but not done as well as Java (all three use very similar syntax). I haven't used Objective C but I hear it's a better implementation of an object oriented version of C than C++ is.
BASIC isn't used much anymore, though there are some things out there done with Visual Basic and RealBASIC. But you're probably better off learning a modern language.
Pascal was designed as a teaching language, but isn't really that popular.
I started out programming in BASIC on the Apple II, later going to Pascal on MS-DOS, and now primarily use Java and C on Solaris, Mac OS X, and occasionally Windows.
Ryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 460 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 825 times:
Actually, Java is starting to be used as the intro language in many CS programs at high schools and universities in the US. The AP computer science test, the US equivalent of A-levels, is in Java (or will be changing to it soon.)
VB is for business majors who are wannabe programmers!
Yeah, go with Java (or C, although C may be more difficult -- in terms of thinking about pointers, and memory, etc)
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 822 times:
C++ or Java are the best choices if you want to use the language professionally.
There is also a stable market for Cobol and PL/1 programmers, but those are not the most interesting or paying jobs (though they are usually extremely stable in terms of jobsecurity).
BCal DC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 717 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 820 times:
Jwenting has a good point.
I work for an IT consultancy, and started as a Cobol AP, then cross trained to Java.
(I'm now in marketing but thats not the point).
The cobol/pl1 guys are all in stable work, and is starting to become better paid as well.
The Java guys have no work whatsoever, as no one is spending on IT development, its all on maintenance and support of existing (cobol/pl1) systems, to try and save money. (here in the UK anyway).
When times are bad, the first to go is IT development, which tends to be 4GL language based.
The 3GL's are safe as its what the core systems tend to be written in.
I can't say one is better than the other, just horses for courses, thats all.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 814 times:
same here, BCal. We're hard pressed to find projects for our people (including me) on the continent as well.
I started out in Pascal/Delphi and C++, was crosstrained to Cobol when the project I was hired for got cancelled a week before it was supposed to start, then shifted to a C project. After that came C++ which was later changed into Java (which I had learned on the side).
Only thing to avoid like the plague is MCSE/MCSD. We (and many of our customers) are not hiring those anymore on principle unless they have years of experience. Most are just not up to it, the exams are far too easy and do not teach any of the stuff you really should know.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 810 times:
Whats the market for ADA programmers like???
Not that I know it...but my understanding is that is a NATO standardized language.
Yes Hawaiian people use ADA....I used to have a compiler for it on the same harddrive as my COBAL compiler.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Indianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 796 times:
I personally think u ought to go for C and C++. Do your C especially well, as it serves as a foundation for whatever you want to do.
Having taught over 100 batches of VB/ASP in the past 2 years, i can say that You cant be a good ( and i mean GOOD) programmer in Java or VB if your base is weak. C helps build that base in core logic building and programming concepts, while C++ helps in understanding OOP concepts.
A thorough understanding of these helps u while working on Java and VB later on.
Southflite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 799 times:
G-KIRAN, perhaps you can tell us what you intend to use the programming for? Do you want something just to "mess around" with while still at school, or are you planning a career in programming?
If the former, I would stick by my suggestion of VB. The IDE is easy to use and you'll be able to generate applications a lot sooner after starting.
If the latter, you're best off following Indianguy's (and others) advice and starting out on C++. As I said before, the learning curve is a lot steeper, but skills and techniques you'll pick up are more valuable in the long run.
The older pre-OOP C+ was the first "real" language I cut my teeth on (back in 1987), and it seems to have stood me in good stead.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 782 times:
Depends on what you want to do. If you intend to gravitate towards engineering fields, by all means, learn C/C++. If you are interested in working on web design and stuff, go for Java. VB is easy, but its more suited to developing nifty Windows apps in a hurry than anything else. Personally I happen to know all of them, though I use C/C++ way more than the others, being a Comp.Sci grad student.
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20845 posts, RR: 55 Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 781 times:
C++ is indeed a good start. It´s got several snags and peculiarities, but nothing that can´t be mastered. It´s the default for most of today´s application and operating system development. C++ compilers are available for practically every platform or purpose.
C is a subset of C++; But the "++" part (classes and objects) isn´t rocket science, either.
Java is also a good place to start. It´s cleaner than C++, with more clarity and a better foundation; But it´s not (yet) as easily turned into a usable application as with C. But it´s getting there. And Java is immediately portable by design. (Provided you´ve got the runtime environment on your machine, which isn´t a problem anymore.
Corporate e-Business is getting more and more based on java server applications.
I wouldn´t use BASIC unless I´m forced to...
BASIC programs end in a mess by default. It´s very hard to keep BASIC programs maintainable. And BASIC isn´t standardized. There are hundreds of mutually incompatible dialects; Your experience with one of them can be more of a burden than an asset.
Assembler is also a very good start, but not everybody would like to do it this way (in fact, it scares most people like hell ). It will give you a lot more insight, but it´s only for real men...
And for most applications, you won´t have to dive quite that deep. But it´s still indispensable for time-critical components, because even a good C compiler will give you at most half the speed of a decent assembly implementation. But that doesn´t matter all that much unless you´re planning to write real-time video CoDecs.
And, of course, assembly language isn´t very portable.
COBOL: As far as I know, it´s slowly dying out, even among bank and insurance IT departments...
ADA: Nice to hear it´s still around (it´s not really new anymore). But it´s a very small niche - even if an interesting one. And compilers aren´t exactly cheap.
But whatever language you might choose in the end:
Document your code!!!! Not just for anybody else, but especially for your own good! You will want to understand your own stuff even next year! (Famous last words: "The code is obvious!" No, it isn´t! )
The debugger is your friend! Tracing your own code is the best and fastest way to find out why you intended A and it gives you B.
Don´t be afraid to experiment! Unless you´re fiddling with your operating system´s harddisk formatting routines it´s usually a good idea to make a few experiments if you´ve got trouble understanding something in a book.
While I´m at it: A good book can help a lot! The compiler documentation won´t get you far, in most cases. Even better if you´ve got somebody you can ask.
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