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Property Taxes?  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

So, most of us home owners have seen a decline in the value of our homes. Our house appraisal in October came in 40K less then what we paid to build our house in '99.

I just got our take bill for February.

The state equalized value is 105k HIGHER then the current value (based on the appraisal and comparable sales) and the taxable value is 67k HIGHER.

So, here are my questions:

1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?
2. On the other hand, we still need to support the communities we live in. They have based their budgets on property taxes and if we all go in and recieve adjustments, our own municiplities would suffer. So is it even worth it as we would be hurting ourselves in the long run?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1101 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

Yes and no

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
. They have based their budgets on property taxes and if we all go in and recieve adjustments, our own municiplities would suffer.

Tough, why should I be the only one who suffers?


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1097 times:



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Tough, why should I be the only one who suffers?

My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1094 times:
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Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1093 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?

Sorry for the first curt reply, this is what I should have written.

We all should have to buckle down and do without when the economy takes a hit. By not adjusting the appraisal value of the tax base we are setting ourselves up for taxation on something that does not exist and is setting a bad precedent. For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1084 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because a good school system makes our township one of the most desirable. Although I don't have children, I think it is important to support that aspect of our community.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
We all should have to buckle down and do without when the economy takes a hit. By not adjusting the appraisal value of the tax base we are setting ourselves up for taxation on something that does not exist and is setting a bad precedent. For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?

Point well taken.

So, may I assume that you were not succesful when you delt with your own property taxes? What reasons did they give you?


User currently offlineN74jw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

I think the township should tighten-up on the wasteful spending.

In my township, Police officers take their cars home at night. I do not know if they are on-duty, but the extra expense in gas does not seem justified. I could be wrong. I don't think the mayor needs a car and a driver, he can drive himself to/from the office. That is what I would do if I were mayor.

I raised a little bit of a stink over a Utilities Authority employee who was using the township truck as his own. The tax payers provide the gas money for the F-250 4x4.

My taxes are retarded, 9K per year, but I support the schools although I do not have children in them. I think a good education is essential for everyone. Perhaps seniors and retirees need not pay school taxes. I also have this wacky idea about placing the costs for school text books on the parents of enrolled students.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1082 times:
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Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5):


Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because a good school system makes our township one of the most desirable. Although I don't have children, I think it is important to support that aspect of our community.

Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1080 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Because a good school district, like the one we have here in Northville, acts as a magnet for potential new residents. This of course will help with home values when the economy improves and home values start to return to their previous levels.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1071 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

In my county, the assessed value of my home dropped by 15%, and the taxes were appropriately lower.

The county is currently discussing whether they need to raise the tax rate to make up the difference in revenue.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?

No. If prices drop across the board by 15%, the government ought to be able to realize savings in the goods they purchase.


User currently offlineDucatiRacer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1067 times:
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Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
Because a good school district, like the one we have here in Northville, acts as a magnet for potential new residents. This of course will help with home values when the economy improves and home values start to return to their previous levels.

Furthermore, without an educated populace, we are, as a nation, FUBAR.

Notwithstanding that, however, I would not sit by and pay taxes on a value that does not exist. If your tax appraisal is truly too high, you should definitely protest.


User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 993 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1066 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Did those people go to school themselves?

Education is the key to escaping poverty. The better the education, then generally the better the society.



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1063 times:



Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 10):
I would not sit by and pay taxes on a value that does not exist. If your tax appraisal is truly too high, you should definitely protest.

I just checked with the township. The value assessed reflects 2006-2007 and does not reflect the current value. The only recourse we have is when the new assessment comes out in February of 2008!


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1062 times:
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Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 11):
Education is the key to escaping poverty. The better the education, then generally the better the society.

Trust me that the population of Northville has long since escaped "poverty".



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1054 times:

My property appraisal nearly doubled this year! The economy in West Texas is BOOMING because of the price of oil and everyone's property has increased in value.

Even with that, I have a homestead exemption and my property taxes are about $89 for 2008. Not bad.


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1034 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

Yes and Yes, Here's what I did. First I went to the Novi tax assessment office and had them pull my card(thats the card with all the information they have on your house) Then I checked it with my figures and guess what ,they showed my house being 500 square feet bigger than what it is. So in March I went to the city tax tribunal and fought it out with some idiot who didn't want to listen to a thing I had to say.Finally after enough badgering he told me to have the house remeasured by the city. Within 2 days I got a call telling me they were lowering my taxes by 500 bucks. Then the following year they lowered them again. So I would recommend checking your card and make sure everything matches IE:square footage, type of building materials etc. Secondly in Novi I can go to the City Website and pull up each of my neighbors and see what they pay in prop taxes. Do your homework. Pull up comparable"s in your neighborhood and see what the neighbors pay. If they pay less then bitch about it,you might get lucky.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1015 times:

Most Floridian (at least those who have owned their homes for 3 or more years) won't have this situation. The Florida Constitution limits annual increase in property tax valuations to 3% a year unless the property is bought or sold OR an addition is made requiring a building permit. So most Floridians have assessed values that are far less than the market value of their homes even after the bubble burst.

The exceptions are people who bought at the height of the bubble.

My house's assessed value is less than a third of it's market value.


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 988 times:
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Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Most Floridian (at least those who have owned their homes for 3 or more years) won't have this situation. The Florida Constitution limits annual increase in property tax valuations to 3% a year unless the property is bought or sold OR an addition is made requiring a building permit. So most Floridians have assessed values that are far less than the market value of their homes even after the bubble burst.

The exceptions are people who bought at the height of the bubble.

My house's assessed value is less than a third of it's market value.

A lot of homes and condos in Florida are owned by out of state people who winter in Florida. Because they are not registered as full time state residents, known as homesteaders, the property taxes raises are not capped so it’s the out of state owners property taxes who make up the difference between the residents 3% cap.

Florida property tax rates are based on the purchase price of the property and if the owner is a state resident it is capped at 3% a year, so after owning property for 20 years the assessment is based on the price paid 20 years ago. When the property owner then decides to purchase another property, their new tax rate is on the purchase price of the new property. This stupid law has force many homeowners who want do downsize when retiring to leave the state because their new tax rates sometimes are to high for them to pay.

Fortunately there is now a movement in the state government to do away with this unfair tax structure and go to a reassessment policy every few years and do away with the 3% cap and unfair tax burden on the out of state owners.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 984 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
Fortunately there is now a movement in the state government to do away with this unfair tax structure and go to a reassessment policy every few years and do away with the 3% cap and unfair tax burden on the out of state owners.

Even MORE fortunate is that the 3% cap is constitutional, and therefore not subject to any screwing with by the state government....  Cool



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 970 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 18):
Even MORE fortunate is that the 3% cap is constitutional, and therefore not subject to any screwing with by the state government....

And even more fortunate is that the Fla Constitution was amended last year to require that ballot initiatives amending the Fla Constitution obtain a 60% popular vote in order to take effect. Previously a simple majority vote was enough to amend the Fla Constitution - thereby giving rise to all sorts of ridiculous issues like pregnant pig rights and the bullet train.

Ironically enough, the amendment changing the requirement from a simple majority to 60% failed to obtain the 60% that would be necessary once the amendment was adopted. But because the amendment was not in effect until it passed, it took effect.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
A lot of homes and condos in Florida are owned by out of state people who winter in Florida.

Too bad. Why should the residents of Florida subsidize services like fire and police protection on structures for people who don't live here year round? The exemption applies to homestead. If it isn't your homestead, then you get no protection. Want the protection, make Florida your permanent residence and the condo your homestead.


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 948 times:
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Quoting Pope (Reply 19):
Too bad. Why should the residents of Florida subsidize services like fire and police protection on structures for people who don't live here year round? The exemption applies to homestead. If it isn't your homestead, then you get no protection. Want the protection, make Florida your permanent residence and the condo your homestead.

I totally disagree with you on this point, it is the non residents whose taxes are not capped that is subsidizing the homesteaded residents whose taxes are capped.

I am one of these affected by this gross inequality of the tax structure. We have a condo in southwest Florida that we run back and forth to during the winter from Connecticut. Basically we are there for no more than 4 months of the year, and therefore are only using most state and county services for these four months, yet we pay a lot more in taxes than a state resident for less services, for instance no snowbirds have children in the local school system, yet our proportionally higher taxes pay a proportionally larger share for the schools so in essence we snowbirds are subsidizing YOUR local school systems.

One case in point, our adjoining condo neighbor who has lived there full time for 22 years pays less than one third of the taxes than we do, and for a much larger unit than ours. This is a great deal for her but is it fair, the answer is no. And in her case, her husband passed away 2 years ago and she is thinking of downsizing but she cant because by state law were ever she goes her taxes will jump up to a point where she cannot afford, so she is stuck there

In my town in Connecticut, properties are reassessed every 5 years and everyone pays their fair share of taxes, no one get a break based on if your are or are not a state resident.

I know all about homesteading and when I can we will claim Florida as our home state.

I also know about the amendment and there is no way any Florida resident would vote to repeal it just so they can pay much more in taxes. About the only way that amendment will be repealed is if a state or federal court would rule it unconstitutional.


User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 945 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

100% right. If you have kids in the school that is in your area then you pay the taxes. When your kids graduate then you stop or if you have no kids you don't need to pay for a service you are not using. You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill. If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools. Paying school taxes when you are not using the service is a crime.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 945 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because education is the most crucial long-term investment for the security and stability of the republic, and the above attitude is the fastest way to send everything down the toilet and lose our #1 position in the world.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 935 times:
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Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because education is the most crucial long-term investment for the security and stability of the republic, and the above attitude is the fastest way to send everything down the toilet and lose our #1 position in the world.

No though as a tax payer and a gay man I am tired of paying for the local brats education on my dime.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 935 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
The state equalized value is 105k HIGHER then the current value (based on the appraisal and comparable sales) and the taxable value is 67k HIGHER.

That sucks. Unless that means your taxes go down next year, I would question it.

Quoting N74jw (Reply 6):
Police officers take their cars home at night. I do not know if they are on-duty, but the extra expense in gas does not seem justified. I could be wrong

Well, think of the money the town saves on storage

Quoting N74jw (Reply 6):
I also have this wacky idea about placing the costs for school text books on the parents of enrolled students.

Yes, that is wacky. Education is one of the main reasons government exists.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):

Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Because having children educated, along with being in a safe place off the street, is in everyone's best interests.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):

No. If prices drop across the board by 15%, the government ought to be able to realize savings in the goods they purchase.

Absolutely.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):

I just checked with the township. The value assessed reflects 2006-2007 and does not reflect the current value. The only recourse we have is when the new assessment comes out in February of 2008!

It looks like they do things in arrears. I guess you will get the break next year. That isn't such a bad thing then.

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill

Here is a good example of why you are wrong. When I was at UCLA, the budget for the university was about $1.1 billion. The university collected less than a quarter of that in tuition payments. Where do you think that money comes from?

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools.

In pretty much every jurisdiction, if not every jurisdiction, school enrollment through the age of majority is compulsory. That means kids are essentially forced to go to school. You can't make people pay tuition for that. Further, it is in the best interests of society to provide free education to at least the secondary level.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Luv2fly : Yeah and I pay higher taxes as I can not file married head of household as being gay I am invisible to that option.
26 Jetstar : In any local or county budget, elementary education is the single largest slice of the budget, in my town education is 60% of the budget, and this ap
27 N1120A : That complaint has nothing to do with education and everything to do with bigotry. Completely different subjects
28 Post contains links Dtw9 : Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21): You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill In Michigan part of our tax bill goes to state college f
29 Lincoln : Yep; at least in Ohio property taxes are post-paid i.e. I'm expecting to get my property tax bill (first ever) sometime soon to reflect the July-Dece
30 Freshlove1 : Fine, but if I have no kids in the system then why should I be paying for someone elses kid to go to school, this is not my problem nor should my tax
31 N1120A : See what happens to our country if that happens.
32 Luv2fly : Well you tell me how you like paying for services that you will never take advantage of, also let me know when you get discriminated by the Governmen
33 Luv2fly : Yes this from an American that not proud enough of the USA to display the flag on a website.
34 N1120A : Hey, it is well known that I disagree with all discrimination against anyone, particularly gay people. That doesn't mean there should be a tax exempt
35 Freshlove1 : I have the American flag on my posts, always have. OK back to the issue. If you have kids its your responsibility to get the funds to pay for their s
36 Luv2fly : So financial discrimination is acceptable.
37 EWRCabincrew : He has a valid point. This goes for anyone who doesn't have children for any reason. Has nothing to do with being gay.
38 Dtw9 : No its not. But somewhere down the road somebody else who was gay or didn't have children paid for your education
39 Luv2fly : You have apoint there, I'll give you that.
40 N1120A : No, it isn't. You should pay taxes like everyone else. No, it is the responsibility of the government, which we are all a part of whether we have kid
41 Jetstar : Endowments, many colleges, including state universities have huge endowments and the interest from these investments help defray a large share of the
42 N1120A : Endowments are part of it, but funding from the State and Federal governments is a huge piece. Then you should move to Florida and change the law. At
43 Pope : I would think that an unoccupied structure requires greater police and fire protection than one that is occupied. First of all, you're not subsidizin
44 AndesSMF : No, but in this current climate you should have a successful try. Plenty of municipalities did not spend their revenue windfalls of better services.
45 Jetstar : This is true for anyone who sends their children to private schools in this country, it’s your elective decision to spend the extra money for your
46 Pope : Isn't it your elective decision to have two homes? I don't know about you but my water and sewer fees are based on actual usage. My traffic impact is
47 Lincoln : ...in a state that has a tax burden that is disadvantageous to your use of the property? I guess my question is along the lines of "was the airport t
48 Pope : There has never been an increase in the rate charged to non-homestead property separate from homestead property. Instead IIRC an exemption REDUCING t
49 Adh214 : As another gay man, I am happy to pay the thousands of dollars in property taxes yearly to send other people's children to school. Why? Because we AL
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