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Xbox 360 Or Playstation 3.....Help!  
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Howdy,

The time has come for me to buy a console, ive always been a playstation man but really cant decide which one to get. Both seem to have their pro's and con's.

I must say i like the price of the Xbox 360 premium but it only has a 20gb hard drive but i can get it for between 550-600 dollars, the elite is upwards of $750 black in colour with the 120gb hard drive so that one is out of the question.

The 40gb PS3 is 699ish

I know Xbox has ALOT more games than PS3 and has sold alot more consoles so more people to play against online etc.

Right so i want help, what one do you reckons best?? Pros, cons comments etc.....

Both are good for High Definition TV's etc which is another reason im looking at getting one now as i upgraded to a LCD screen TV. Plus GTA IV is out early next year, now that is going to be one hell of a game!!!!

Let the great debate begin  Smile


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

I don't know much about the consoles in particular, but two things come to mind:

- Buy after christmas. Especially the less sought-after consoles (XBOX, Playstation) may be available at reduced prices then.

- As far as I've been told, the XBOX is extremely noisy - people have compared it to a running vacuum cleaner.


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

I am biased; I'm a total Xbox 360 Fanboy. But I have to say, it's by FAR the superior console. The number of games, the quality, etc are far superb. But the number one advantage is the online service, Xbox Live. It is BY FAR the number one reason why I love the Xbox so much. The number of opportunities for online play, social connections, competition between friends, etc. Sony's online service has been delayed til next year.

I've played both consoles, but I bought a 360. It is the best!  twocents 


User currently offlineImiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

We currently have a Xbox 360 in our flat. The graphics on the Xbox are incredible ( we only ever play FIFA and ProEvoSoccer). The only cons for the Xbox I can think of are the awkward ergonomics of the controllers, and on occasions it does crash.

User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2088 times:



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 3):
We currently have a Xbox 360 in our flat. The graphics on the Xbox are incredible ( we only ever play FIFA and ProEvoSoccer).

Just looking at Mass Effect and Call of Duty 4 trailers, they are incredible and of course GTA IV looks excellent aswell.

But im blown away by Call of Duty 4.

Thanks for the comments so far, keep them comming especially want to hear about PS3 performance etc  Smile

Very much appreciated.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Buy after christmas

Yeah i'll prob wait till boxing day sales! although hopefully will get some good bargins online as we only have 3 places in town that sell consoles lol



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6545 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
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Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 2):
But the number one advantage is the online service, Xbox Live.

But you pay for it.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Thread starter):
Both are good for High Definition TV's etc which is another reason im looking at getting one now as i upgraded to a LCD screen TV.

The PS3 gives you a "free" blu-ray player to enjoy hi-def movies on your new TV...



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Be 100% sure your TV will support the PS3 before you open games and such. I have a 55 inch Mitsubishi, only about 2 years old, and the PS3 doesn't work correctly on it. Horizontal lines would constantly scroll across the screen. Then because games were opened I couldn't get my money back on them, just some crappy store credit.
The advantage of the PS3 is you can use it to play blue ray DVD's and just a player is more expensive than the PS3.

Xbox is just horrible.  duck 
Get a Wii.


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Call of Duty 4 is THE SHIT! I spent excessive hours and beat it on Veteran (the hardest difficulty). I'm quite proud of myself. There were some levels where I spent 7-8 hours beating just 1 level...

Another bonus to the Xbox. They have "Achievements". Each game has designated Achievements which are awarded for completing a part of the game, accomplishing something difficult or beating a challenge of some sort. Each Achievement has a designated point value and once you Unlock an Achievement, those points are added to your Gamerscore. Gamerscore is a composite score of all the games you played/Achievements you've unlocked. So it's a total score which you can compare to your friends and gives others a general idea of your gaming prowess. Mine is currently at 12,367. That puts me probably at the 80-90% range in the hierarchy of Xbox gamers.  Big grin


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2073 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 2):
But the number one advantage is the online service, Xbox Live.

But you pay for it.

Roughly $5/month. Chump change. And when you consider all of the media download opportunities, gaming connectivity, etc.; it's a bargain.

You can download full movies, original Xbox titles, TV shows, etc. from Xbox Live Marketplace. The ability to download HD movies directly to your hard drive is a huge plus.


User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2069 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
As far as I've been told, the XBOX is extremely noisy

Haven't found it to be noisier than your average desktop computer

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
But you pay for it.

You pay for quality. Xbox Live has given me the best online gaming experience. Period.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Thread starter):
Right so i want help, what one do you reckons best?? Pros, cons comments etc.....

Look at the games on the shelves, look at what games are planned for each console. Pick the one that has the games you want to play and you won't regret it. When you get down the basis of the argument its what console really has the games (exclusives) that you want to play.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 8):
Roughly $5/month. Chump change. And when you consider all of the media download opportunities, gaming connectivity, etc.; it's a bargain.

You can download full movies, original Xbox titles, TV shows, etc. from Xbox Live Marketplace. The ability to download HD movies directly to your hard drive is a huge plus.

Is that all all included in the $5 ish a month?? Also there is 2 levels, silver and gold whats the difference between the 2?

Cheers.....


Answered my own question lol,

USD$59.99 for a premium xbox 360 live pack for 12 months, cant complain about that!!

[Edited 2007-12-13 08:02:33]


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2065 times:



Quoting AC320 (Reply 9):
Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
But you pay for it.

You pay for quality. Xbox Live has given me the best online gaming experience. Period.

 checkmark 

Couldn't have said it better.


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2065 times:



Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 10):
Is that all all included in the $5 ish a month?? Also there is 2 levels, silver and gold whats the difference between the 2?

Movie rentals are extra. But there is a lot of free content.

The difference between Silver and Gold: Silver is free and allows access to Xbox Live for updates and whatnot but that's about it. If you want to play online over Xbox Live or anything beyond the basics, you need Gold. It's like $60/year; totally worth it.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

Thanks heaps, at the moment its the Xbox360  Smile

Keep the comments rolling in, away to bed as its way way too late! Will check on this thread in the morning.

Cheers



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

I am having the same debate. I'm leaning towards PS3.
-The add-ons and the virtual world Sony have promised sound amazing.
-The platform is way more robust
-You can run full blown Linux on PS3
-We have an xbox at work so I can still play Halo

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

The PS3 is the superior hardware platform.

The XBOX360 currently has more titles out.

If you want Halo3 get the XBOX. If you want MGS4, get the PS3. Most all other titles cross platform.. except for FFXIII which will probably come out right about the time hell freezes over.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2052 times:



Quoting AC320 (Reply 9):
Haven't found it to be noisier than your average desktop computer

Depends on what your average is...

What I've been told is that it's completely unsuitable for the living room because of the noise - the Playstation on the other hand I've witnessed working quite well as a DVD/BlueRay player without distraction.

One word of caution about the XBOX: Its failure rates are through the roof - Microsoft recently put aside another one billion(!) US$ to account for expected warranty replacements. Newer versions are supposed to be less fragile, but it probably remains to be seen whether the "red ring of death" will actually be less frequent with the new batch...


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2048 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
As far as I've been told, the XBOX is extremely noisy - people have compared it to a running vacuum cleaner.

Only if you don't give it decent ventilation. I have mine on the shelf above my surround sound processor, and in times of high volume and deep bass sounds, the 5.1 processor has been noisier than the 360. Also, you can buy a 3-fan cooler that snaps on the back that keeps it cooler as well. It's $10, and I honestly hardly ever hear my 360 at work.

Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 3):
The only cons for the Xbox I can think of are the awkward ergonomics of the controllers, and on occasions it does crash.

I thought the controllers were some of the most comfortable out there; certainly more comfortable than the PS3 controller. Also, mine has never crashed, but most crashes that I've heard of are occurring because the users aren't shutting the console down properly. They just hit the power button and the next time they turn it on they get the red ring of death. It makes no sense to do it this way because you have to hold down the 360 button on the console to turn the controller off anyway, so it's really no quicker to hit the power button than it is to hold the 360 button and select 'Turn off console and controllers' from the dashboard.


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2042 times:



Quoting AC320 (Reply 9):

You pay for quality. Xbox Live has given me the best online gaming experience. Period.

I'm getting a 360 for Xmas, and I will be getting Xbox Live also... I will need to get your handle for it....



Go big or go home
User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2041 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
What I've been told is that it's completely unsuitable for the living room because of the noise - the Playstation on the other hand I've witnessed working quite well as a DVD/BlueRay player without distraction.

That would not be my experience, as I've found no excessively distracting noise from the console. I believe that may have been related to early units where I heard some disc drives were noisier than others from different suppliers.

When I'm watching a DVD or annihilating some foul-mouthed 12year olds on Halo3 I really don't notice the console.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2034 times:



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 17):
I have mine on the shelf above my surround sound processor, and in times of high volume and deep bass sounds, the 5.1 processor has been noisier than the 360.

I see. A starting jet may serve the same purpose...!  mischievous 

Quoting AC320 (Reply 19):
That would not be my experience, as I've found no excessively distracting noise from the console. I believe that may have been related to early units where I heard some disc drives were noisier than others from different suppliers.

Right... the owner of the Playstation we were using to watch a movie did mention that the previous models were supposed to have been louder, but his drive was almost inaudible, even up close.


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5078 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

You can never go wrong with the PS3!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

My vote goes to the PS3. I decided that I'm signing my life over to Sony though, all of my computer, gaming and television needs come from them.

User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

I have both consoles, play both of them equally and love them both. Whatever your decision you won't regret it. But here is my honest appraisal.

At the moment the Xbox 360 if the far superior gaming platform, the range of games is far superior to the PS3 at the moment, however the 360 has been out a year longer then and the common consensus is that the PS3 is about in the same position as the 360 was a year ago.

As for online gaming everybody sings the praises of Xbox Live but as others have said you have to pay for the service whereas you do not pay for the Playstation Network. Xbox Live is great but if you all want to do is jump online and play against other people then both systems do exactly that. The lesser number of PS3's compared to 360's does not affect the ability to find games, a popular game on both systems will always have other players playing whereas you can struggle on both systems to find people to play against on the less popular games.

Build quality is a big thumbs up to the PS3. As you probably know the 360 has a well documented high failure rate where Microsoft has had to extended the warranty for the 'three red light of doom' failure, the PS3 seems to hold up much better, I haven't had any problems with both systems but the strange noises that come from my 360 at times makes me worry at times and if when working normally the 360 disk drive sounds like you have a jet engine in your living room at times.

The overall package you get in the box is also better for the PS3 over the 360. The PS3 comes already with the ability to connect wirelessly to your router whereas with the 360 you have to but a wireless adapter. Also you get a lovely Blu-Ray drive to watch lovely Hi-Def movies with the PS3, if you want to watch Hi-Def movies with your 360 you have to buy the HD-DVD drive add on. The PS3 also allows you to connect Bluetooth devices to it so you can connect a keyboard to it or use your mobile phone bluetooth headset to talk online, the 360 has no Bluetooth connectivity and you have to use the 360 headset that comes in the box which sucks because to looks like you are working in a call centre.

Basically if you want a gaming machine right know I would recommend the 360, if your not to bothered about right now get a PS3, having both systems I feel that the PS3 has far greater potential over the 360.



British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
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The advantages of getting a 360 is that it's much cheaper than a PS3 and has a far bigger collection of games to choose from. Although as time passes the PS3 will have bigger and better titles to choose from. I bought the 360 simply because i didn't want to wait around for the PS3, and it's cheaper, you can buy a 360 in the UK for as little as £250 with a game (premuim version). Or a core system for £190. Either way it's a great deal, you get a 21st century console with a lot of blockbuster games at a decent price. There are issues to consider, the 360 IS loud, certainly louder than previous console i've owned, the sound is in between a air conditioning unit and a hairdryer. Not pretty but you get used to it after a while.


In Arsene we trust!!
25 Ajd1992 : It's like a hoover... seriously. My brother has one, and it's noisy as hell, and it can heat his room (no joke, he doesn't need a radiator on in ther
26 AC320 : Depends, he might have an earlier build model. From reading the updates, MS' current suppliers offer a quieter drive and better cooling built into th
27 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Thanks heaps for that!, i was thinking bout buying both systems but for me there is no point Had a look on ebay to compare prices to shops and online
28 Virgin744 : IF you do decide to go for the PS3 then do not get the 40GB one. Either go for the 60GB or 80GB one as the 40GB version does not play PS and PS2 games
29 Bill142 : Get a PS it's better value for money. It's positioning as an entertainment centre rather then just a games console makes it more versatile. I do belie
30 Post contains images Halcyon : We just switched from the PS3 to the XBOX 360 in my small dorm room. The thing I notice most is that (Especially with XBOX Live or sys. link.), the ga
31 Post contains links and images CXfirst : Does not matter, there's enough people. The only thing is if you have a lot of friends using the one system, then I'd say go for that one, as you can
32 VonRichtofen : Not sure about Australia, but it's damn near impossible to buy an Xbox 360 on the North American continent at the moment unless you're willing to pay
33 Post contains images FRAspotter : That must be one quiet vacuum! I have a 360 and I honestly can't hear any noise coming out of it... $50 USD for a year... well worth it if you ask me
34 VonRichtofen : In Germany or the US? In Canada XBox 360's are pretty much impossible to find right now. Wiis? Fuhgetabahtit
35 CXfirst : In Australia all are relatively easy to get, I've not been to one electronics store yet that doesn't sell the three (some don't sell any, but that is
36 Post contains images Klaus : Then switch it on! The story I got was like this: "We stepped through the front door and immediately heard a clearly noticeable noise - as it turned
37 IFEMaster : That's a bit of exaggeration. There have been problems, but they are hardly "dying like flies".
38 Klaus : One billion US$ set aside for only just the warranty damage on the relatively few machines sold speak differently. And that is on top of the five bil
39 IFEMaster : Quoting dollar amounts is misleading. Failure rate is usually measured in percentage on volume sold, as you had done in the past when discussing iPho
40 Post contains images Klaus : No. It's just not precise. But a remedy of that magnitude indicates severe problems any way you slice it. 3% per what? Per month? 100.0% would be a p
41 IFEMaster : 3% of total volume sold, as indicated in my previous post. As of September 2007, 10.7 million XBox 360 units had been sold, so that's about 320,000 f
42 Klaus : That would mean that Microsoft is budgeting 1000000000$ / 320000 = 3125$ for warranty expenses per every defective XBox. Not all that believable.
43 Post contains images IFEMaster : You're not looking at the big picture. Projected sales by end of Q2 2008 are 17 million. End of Q4 2008, 20 million. The budget doesn't change. I do
44 Klaus : We're not talking about the regular budget. The 1 billion $ were additionally budgeted on top of the regular losses. Not quite, although Apple wouldn
45 Halcyon : Funny that...I live in a dorm in college, surrounded by people with 360s. No one has had one die all semester, and no one has ever complained about a
46 Jetsa : $65 a year isn't exactly that much.
47 Post contains images Klaus : And which of the many diverse topics I'm responding to would signify that mythical "one track"? Maybe it's your perception of myself that's a bit nar
48 Halcyon : Maybe one day you'll listen and stop using smilies all the time. While you mean well, you come off as a bit of an elitist with no view but your own.
49 Post contains images Klaus : Great. Personal judgment instead of topical arguments. I'm out of here.
50 Longhornmaniac : Definitely Xbox 360. Better games (in my opinion), better controller, better online experience. I haven't found the 360 to be noisy, and definitely ha
51 Post contains images KPDX : XBOX 360! You wont be let down.
52 Halcyon : Self-betterment is never something to be shirked. I came in the spirit of fairness and received rolled eyes from you. You're not showing competent co
53 Post contains images FRAspotter : I was referring to the US... I don't really know the situation in other countries... Wiis are pretty much impossible to get in the US as well. You wo
54 Klaus : I leave you to the blatant irony of the situation.
55 Aviator1990 : I would advise you to buy a Xbox 360 because of its good games, online multiplayer service. IF you do decide to buy the 360 I would advise you to buy
56 Halcyon : I knew that you wouldn't actually go. It's just how you are. How much is that, if you don't mind me asking? Just curious, because I haven't used a 36
57 Ajd1992 : Ours is 8 months old and is like a power station (heat and sound wise) It's insane. My laptop, PC, and my own body can't make that much noise and hea
58 KPDX : Hm, must be something wrong with yours then. And like Aviator1990 said, just buy a intercooler, I have one and it works fine. The noise (at least on
59 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Hey guys, Back after a week in the dog box (banned) for saying a naught word! I purchased the Xbox 360, got a good deal at K-mart so grabbed it, alse
60 Post contains images KPDX : Go you! Nice decision there.
61 BCAInfoSys : Good call amigo! COD4 is by far my favorite game. You want a REAL challenge? Try beating the whole single player campaign on Veteran. The last 3 or 4
62 Mirrodie : True but it adds up and PS3 ends up cheaper in the long run, no? Good luck with the new console! My brother has x360, Wii and PS3 and enjoys them all
63 Miamiair : My only game so far for the PS3. I am still trying to get thru it as a noob... That .50 Cal sniper shot is a bitch. BTW, how do you get the claymore'
64 BCAInfoSys : That shot is damn hard trying to calculate for the wind and Boreallis effect. I found that I had good luck by using Kentucky Windage and aiming a foo
65 BCAInfoSys : So Vic - if you're to the sniper shot; what was the hardest part so far for you? Getting through the TV station? Crawling through the BMP/infantry pat
66 Miamiair : The TV station is a bear, but after getting snuffed a couple of times you get the hang of it. The BMP only killed me twice, the trick is to move slow
67 Post contains images KaiGywer : Personally, I would buy a PS3, simply because I have a PS2 and would like to keep playing some games. Not to mention GTAIV coming out "soon" I have ne
68 Post contains images BCAInfoSys : GTA IV is coming out for the 360 on the exact same day as the PS3. And when you look at how many kickass 360-exclusive games there are (Halo 3, Mass
69 Post contains images DCrawley : Interesting thread. Here's my story: Got the XBOX360 on its release date by waiting in line all night at a local Best Buy. Brought it home and played
70 Mirrodie : Thanks for posting that. If confirms what I know. If I was a hard core gamer, I'd be hard pressed to rely on PS3 at this time. I just hooked up out PS
71 Bill142 : What's wrong with the controller? it fits the hands nicely. The lack vibration is due to Sony (and Microsoft but they settled early) being sued over
72 Pilotdude09 : Thanks Yeah, Aussie hasnt really gotten into Bluray yet only a few DVD are Bluray that ive seen. Loving it at the moment and Xbox Live really makes t
73 BilgeRat : I have both, and I can say the PS3 has sat unused for many months now. Some observations: The 360 is noisy, but you won't hear it above the noise from
74 Acheron : Get a Wii or a 360 The PS3 is a hog with no good games.
75 DCrawley : Seriously? You really think that the controller should not have been redesigned? You don't think they could have created a more comfortable controlle
76 Post contains images KaiGywer : I disagree. I actually think the PS1-2-3 controller is the most comfortable. But as you said, this is all subjective
77 BHMBAGLOCK : anti-Microsoft / pro-Apple in ALL cases(OK, 99.9 %) maybe? Media sharing is very simple to set up with Xbox. I use my laptop as a media server connec
78 Klaus : Hardly. Microsoft keeps reconfirming its status as an embarrassment for the IT profession at nearly every opportunity it gets (see above), but that i
79 Bill142 : aesthetically it doesn't work with the style of the PS3. But clearly the majority of gamers didn't want the style of the controller changed. I find i
80 ScrubbsYWG : i've received an xbox360 as a gift today, and am heavily leaning towards exchanging it for a ps3. I am not a hardcore gamer, suck balls at first perso
81 Farrhad : This is not true. I have a 360 Buy it after christmas, will be much cheaper And hey! My sister is getting me a ps3 in january!
82 Klaus : With many people reporting very high noise levels (in this thread as well), it is either dependent on circumstances (although the other machines appe
83 Mirrodie : THats esentially why I went with PS 3 as well. We're not hardcore gamers. If we were, I could see how one might gravittae towards xbox. But for being
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