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New Deputy Kills Wife Practicing 'quick-draw'  
User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

http://www.kptv.com/news/14882840/detail.html

Hmm... I guess he hadn't received firearms training yet.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Thats just sad. But how can a pistol accidentally discharge? Was he carrying it with a round already in the chamber?


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User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2125 times:



Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
I guess he hadn't received firearms training yet.

Even highly experienced shooters can be stupid.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
But how can a pistol accidentally discharge? Was he carrying it with a round already in the chamber?

That is the preferred way to carry a firearm because you might not have the time to load it in a time of dire need.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
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What a horrible and senseless tragedy that could have been avoided by practicing good and very basic firearms safety.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
But how can a pistol accidentally discharge?

By not being safe, and putting your finger on the trigger after not clearing the weapon. Unfortunately it's easy to have a real tragedy while being a little careless. Just like with pools and cars.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2117 times:



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
But how can a pistol accidentally discharge? Was he carrying it with a round already in the chamber?

Probably a Glock, and the officer had his finger on the trigger . . . violation of Basic Rule 2.

Carrying a round in the chamber - weapon in Condition 1 - is normal, and expected. If have an officer that does not carry in Condition 1, he/she can expect a written reprimand.

Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
I guess he hadn't received firearms training yet.

 sarcastic 

Hmmmm, I guess if you'd bothered to read the link you'd see

a) it was not a department weapon
b) the person hadn't been to any training yet

In fact, you should edit your thread title, because it's inaccurate.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2112 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Probably a Glock

 worried  I wasn't going to say anything but they do seem to be involved more often than other brands. Irregardless of that, he made a tragic mistake for which there is no "do over".


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
In fact, you should edit your thread title, because it's inaccurate.

Edit away. The source of the weapon is kinda irrelevant, and I titled it 'new deputy' to reflect that fact within the space limitations.' I can't change it now but have no problem with you doing so.

[Edited 2007-12-18 14:34:08]


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2083 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 2):
That is the preferred way to carry a firearm because you might not have the time to load it in a time of dire need.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Carrying a round in the chamber - weapon in Condition 1 - is normal, and expected. If have an officer that does not carry in Condition 1, he/she can expect a written reprimand.

Ok wow...didn't know that. I have carried my .22 Beretta many times, but never with a round already in the chamber. But I'm not a cop and never had to deal with a life threatening situation.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Probably a Glock, and the officer had his finger on the trigger . . . violation of Basic Rule 2.

Glocks are very popular among shooters here, probably because they're cheaper than the other ones. I thought Glocks were pretty safe...guess nothing is safe if the person handling the weapon is stupid.



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User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2062 times:



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 6):
I can't change it now but have no problem with you doing so

No sir . . . because it would be my personal preference, not one done because of that red title by my name.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
I thought Glocks were pretty safe...guess nothing is safe if the person handling the weapon is stupid.

All weapons are safe . . .

If properly handled . . .

In this case, it was not - as Queso said - a terrible tragedy has occured.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Ok wow...didn't know that.

I'd venture to say if you ask any copper from the US on this board, they'll tell you Condition 1 is the standard. I'd also venture to say if you ask any handgun owner on this board - regardless of profession - you'll find Condition 1 for a handgun is standard.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21528 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Ugh. Why can't idiots with firearms kill themselves when they screw up and not other people?  Sad

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2061 times:



Quoting The Source Article (Thread starter):
Ryan Osbrink, 24, was practicing drawing his pistol from a holster when it unintentionally discharged as his wife, Kimberly Osbrink, entered the room.



Hey guy, ever heard of snap caps?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
I thought Glocks were pretty safe...guess nothing is safe if the person handling the weapon is stupid.

Bingo.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2056 times:



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Ok wow...didn't know that. I have carried my .22 Beretta many times, but never with a round already in the chamber. But I'm not a cop and never had to deal with a life threatening situation.

The proper way to carry a loaded weapon should be a part of ANY concealed carry training. I sure as hell spend a lot of time teaching my students about that before they ever take to the range with a live firearm, regardless of whether they plan to carry or not.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
I thought Glocks were pretty safe...guess nothing is safe if the person handling the weapon is stupid.

They are as safe as any other double-action auto without an external safety as long as they haven't had a different weight trigger spring installed. Even at that, any improperly (read that incompetently) handled firearm can be a killer. You don't practice* drawing with a loaded weapon and you sure as HELL don't do it in an occupied dwelling.

* Unless you have had copious training and practice first, and then only in a safe area.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2039 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
I'd also venture to say if you ask any handgun owner on this board - regardless of profession - you'll find Condition 1 for a handgun is standard.

 checkmark  I concur.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Why can't idiots with firearms kill themselves when they screw up and not other people?

Sometimes they do. It's normally when people are cleaning their "unloaded" firearm.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2031 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 11):
Even at that, any improperly (read that incompetently) handled firearm can be a killer. You don't practice* drawing with a loaded weapon and you sure as HELL don't do it in an occupied dwelling.

 checkmark 

I wonder what the hell he was thinking practicing drawing his loaded weapon inside his house. If he had been killed he would have deserved the Darwin Award. Too bad his poor wife had to die for his stupidity. What an idiot.



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User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2027 times:



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 13):
I wonder what the hell he was thinking practicing drawing his loaded weapon inside his house. If he had been killed he would have deserved the Darwin Award. Too bad his poor wife had to die for his stupidity. What an idiot.

You know, I completely agree with you. And it certainly is horrible that it happened at all, but can you just imagine how certain people on this forum would respond had the situation been a little different and this person NOT been somehow linked to law enforcement and he was "only" an armed citizen?


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2016 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 14):
You know, I completely agree with you. And it certainly is horrible that it happened at all, but can you just imagine how certain people on this forum would respond had the situation been a little different and this person NOT been somehow linked to law enforcement and he was "only" an armed citizen?

I don't think it matters that he was linked to law enforcement. Until he gets that badge, he's just another dude. I think it's just an example of some guy not treating his firearm with the respect a potentially lethal weapon should get. I hope reading about this guy's mistake stops another guy from crossing the line between 'weapon' and 'toy.'



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2013 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 14):
You know, I completely agree with you. And it certainly is horrible that it happened at all, but can you just imagine how certain people on this forum would respond had the situation been a little different and this person NOT been somehow linked to law enforcement and he was "only" an armed citizen?

Oh yup..we'd have the usual 'Guns are (insert negative adjective here)' argument. For all you know some people might even start that considering the person involved hadn't technically started his job and also it was not the service weapon that was involved in this incident.



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User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

Perhaps it's the cop in me and my naturally suspicious nature but, damn, this story sounds just bit too coincidental to me.

User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1845 times:



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
Perhaps it's the cop in me and my naturally suspicious nature but, damn, this story sounds just bit too coincidental to me.

That thought crossed my mind as well but I'll depend on the local investigators to do their job and do it well to detect if this was anything more than just recklessness.


User currently offlineCOrocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1797 times:



Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
Hmm... I guess he hadn't received firearms training yet.

Given that he was a decorated Marine from the war, I would expect that the had been through firearms training.

Was just flat out being stupid at the time.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13170 posts, RR: 78
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

So this guy, ex services, keen on firearms (by having his own weapon), never learned the first, most basic, fundamental rule ;
Never point a weapon at anyone, for any reason, unless you may have to use it on them.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1774 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 20):

Actually, that's Rule #3.

Rule #1: All guns are always loaded.

Rule #2: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are the target and you're ready to shoot.

Rule #3: Never point your weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy.

Rule #4: Be aware of your targets, your surroundings and anything beyond your target.


User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1699 times:



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
But how can a pistol accidentally discharge?

Um.. Pull the trigger, it fires.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
Was he carrying it with a round already in the chamber?

I certainly hope so.

Thankfully this guy was weeded out of the process before he made it through and his stupidity put the lives of the general public in danger.

This is why we need to pay cops more. Instead of getting the best and brightest we end up with a few of the best, but the rest of the force is made up with whoever will work for the money.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1677 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Hmmmm, I guess if you'd bothered to read the link you'd see

a) it was not a department weapon
b) the person hadn't been to any training yet

According to an article in the Marine Corps News, Osbrink joined the Marine Corps to prepare for a career as a police officer and in hopes of joining a SWAT team.

In 2006, he received a Bronze Star Medal for courageous actions in Iraq.

I would say he had some training.


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

ac·ci·dent –noun 1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap.

A very unfortunate accident. Complacency, distraction, fatigue, lack of resources, norms, stress...

But they are no excuse for breaking rule #3. These rules are simple. Don't follow them and unpleasant things happen; Follw them and you will be accident free.


25 Queso : Which gives even MORE credibility to my point.... Interestinly enough, some of the most irresponsible and reckless firearms handling I have ever witn
26 Post contains links AeroWesty : I caught this story on the news, and apparently the victim made a statement before she died, which hasn't been released yet. The Oregonian has a bit m
27 Post contains images Queso : From the article..... "During marksmanship training at boot camp -- which is two weeks long -- four basic safety rules are made clear: Treat every we
28 Post contains images N229NW : Yeah, I had that same thought. Wonder if they'll find out he just happened to have taken out a million dollar life insurance policy on her the week b
29 Dougloid : What a fucked up deal. My wife works for the state training academy for cops and she hears stories. One concerned a local department's training office
30 Queso : NOBODY should PLAY with weapons inside the house!
31 MDorBust : FTFY
32 GPIARFF :
33 Molykote : Is that real or a staged "accident" in the form of a lesson?
34 MDorBust : Very, very real. So real in fact that the agent involved filed several lawsuits in attempts to suppress the video.. then to claim damages from the re
35 Post contains images JetMech : Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, Glock pistols have three safeties. The thing that always gets me however, is that all three safetie
36 ANCFlyer : Trigger Safety . . . . that's it. Well, okay, it also won't fire if it's holstered or someone's finger isn't where it isn't supposed to be. Correct.
37 JetMech : No worries ANC. I'll leave it for the time being and just say that I feel pretty bad for the unfortunate deputy. Regards, JetMech
38 Post contains images Queso : That is correct, but in all fairness that is the way most modern combat automatics are designed. And if you think about it, all double-action revolve
39 JetMech : I guess that is what I was getting at in my prior posts. As good as the training is that one may receive, accidents can happen. My thinking is along
40 Queso : I agree with that but I would have to qualify the statement with the preface that it depends on the user's experience level, dexterity, and how much
41 JetMech : I see. As I understand it, the Glock series of pistols is a very popular choice with many police departments both within and outside the U.S. If a po
42 Queso : Police agencies gather candidates of widely varied experience levels and train them (often by sending them through their own academy) to a standard s
43 JetMech : It would be a shame if a police person ever had to defend their own firearm proficiency due to an accident caused by lack of taxpayer funded training
44 ANCFlyer : IF?! Happens all the time. That is why Department Records are kept. That is why I keep a log of every round fired. That's why you take it upon yourse
45 Dougloid : If people were more familiar with weapons and were properly trained in their care and handling they'd probably be more careful than they are. I had h
46 Queso : Character building experience, wasn't it? I think there's a lot of truth to that statement. Because we live in a culture that teaches "guns are bad"
47 CaptOveur : Apparently it has become rare for departments to buy ammo at all. My department only issues one box a month of practice ammo for free and that is onl
48 MDorBust : You're getting extras. We only extra ammunition we got issued was what was going to be expended for qualification. I was told once that one of the bi
49 JetMech : I believe it alright! Exactly the same sort of thing happens in the aircraft maintenance game. Regards, JetMech
50 Dougloid : Well, Troop 74 had four Remington target rifles and they all had heavy barrels and target sights. One was a little lighter but I never got that one-t
51 Post contains links Itsjustme : http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3493398 Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets
52 CaptOveur : That's bullshit. I put 500 rounds downrange last week. I had no problem finding bullets.
53 Post contains links MDorBust : I've always thought so too since those reports first started cropping up. Sure prices are up... But then again, prices are up on everything. Never ha
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