Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
I witnessed something truly amazing the other day. A large group of protesters were marching against Israel. I see this often enough, and, while it bothers me, everyone has a right to his opinion. But what really got to me what the massive support from the Gay/ Lesbian community.
Don't GLBT realize that Israel is the ONLY country in the region that supports gay rights?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 19262 posts, RR: 63 Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1969 times:
You've given absolutely no point for reference. Which group was marching, and for which cause? Your post is confusing, to say the least.
Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1): You've given absolutely no point for reference. Which group was marching, and for which cause? Your post is confusing, to say the least.
Point well taken. Sorry for the omission. It was at a GLBTQ pride parade. A sizable contingency was there in support of Palestine.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 19262 posts, RR: 63 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1964 times:
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 19262 posts, RR: 63 Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1939 times:
Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1905 times:
Quoting YOWza (Reply 6): ou saw one mini protest that happened to have this group supporting the Palestinians. That's a far cry from "so many"
I saw one parade the other day, but it was by no means the only time I have seen such support by the gay community. I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5): I'm still trying to figure out how this pride parade happened just the other day, when Pride was in June
Don't spend too much energy trying to figure it out!
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 19262 posts, RR: 63 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1903 times:
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8): I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.
Nothing stopping you from picking up a sign and doing so, is there?
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8): Don't spend too much energy trying to figure it out! ÂÂ
This is A.net, I've come to expect to suspend my normal belief systems before signing on.
Searpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1865 times:
Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 7): Pretty much covers all the bases doesn't it. Silly
Don't even get me started. . .
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8): I saw one parade the other day, but it was by no means the only time I have seen such support by the gay community. I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.
Because its an issue that matters to you, I think you're just sensitized to it (not a bad thing, just an observation). I've lived all over the country, participated in many GLBT organizations and functions over the years, including parades, and can't say that I've noticed a bias one way or another. In fact I distinctly remember gay Jewish groups but can think of a single Muslim/Arab/Palestinian one.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
One of my biggest gripes w/ the community - When it comes to PC, we take the cake. I've watched Gay & Lesbian morph over the last 10 years into LGBTQ, and who knows what's next.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2478 posts, RR: 31 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
A lot of gays support Israel. A lot of gays support palestine. Just like everyone else. I think most likely that the gays who do support Palestine feel that they have something in common in that they feel oppressed, similar to the Palestinians.
FInd me some openly gay Palestinians who aren't living in Tel Aviv...
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 15): just because someone is gay and israel supports gay rights, does not mean gays have to support israel.
No, but it is hypocritical to support liberal causes in the West like gay rights and then oppose the one liberal democracy in the Middle East that supports gay rights (which happens to be more advanced with gay rights then the United States...)
Quoting AA777 (Reply 16): I think most likely that the gays who do support Palestine feel that they have something in common in that they feel oppressed, similar to the Palestinians.
Hah...Yeah i'm sure they'll feel oppressed when they're beaten to death if they proclaim their sexuality in Gaza or the West Bank...
Brings up a much more positive image of what a "Gaza Strip" or the "Westy Bank" is. With either, I would imagine that bronze bodies would be revealed.
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 11): 've lived all over the country, participated in many GLBT organizations and functions over the years, including parades, and can't say that I've noticed a bias one way or another.
Am I incorrect in thinking that this is at a college or university? I think that there tends to be much more of a left unification on campuses. I have the preception that feminist marches, GLBT, and left political marches all seem to have alot of the similiar groups going to them. I am sure that the right minded political students would do the same, but they seem to march and protest alot less. To busy doing taxes and listening to Rush I guess.
CO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1656 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17): FInd me some openly gay Palestinians who aren't living in Tel Aviv...
Excellent point. The palestinian culture is influenced by islam. In Islam homosexuality is forbidden. In fact, it is considered a crime punishable by death.
This is why 90% of gay palestinians live in West Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and the other 10% aren't openly gay.
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17): No, but it is hypocritical to support liberal causes in the West like gay rights and then oppose the one liberal democracy in the Middle East that supports gay rights
i respectfully disagree with you, but i see your point.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4125 posts, RR: 37 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1646 times:
It's a cultural thing I guess, like bonding with the enemies of your enemies.
In the USA and Europe, originally the pro Israel (political) groups are the more conservative/religious/establishment groups which are against gay rights. So often liberals/alternative/left wing groups have more sympathy for the underdog party in this conflict, the Palestinians.
But lately in the Netherlands for instance the gay community feels threatened by the increased presence of Muslims in their country, especially some young Moroccans can be agressive against gays. So you see the above trend reversed, that many gays switch to support right wing anti immigrant parties, as they discovered the conservative parties protect their rights more then the progressive pro immigration parties. A few years ago the popular anti immigration politician Pim Fortuyn was openly gay, it was interesting to see xenophobic and religious people then supporting a flaming gay leader.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1609 times:
Interesting posts. In my experience, the religious left has been silent on much of these issues. We often hear about the religious right, and we figure that the left is atheist! But there are many gays in the religious left who support liberal causes. And Israel is a liberal cause as far as I am concerned!
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2478 posts, RR: 31 Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1572 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17): Hah...Yeah i'm sure they'll feel oppressed when they're beaten to death if they proclaim their sexuality in Gaza or the West Bank...
Whats your point RJ? Go to Alabama and 'proclaim' your sexuality and you can easily get beaten or killed. You might even get beaten or killed for being gay in New York City. And I have major doubts that it has never happened in Israel. And even if it has happened in the West Bank- it does not change the fact that Israel is an oppresive/ occupying nation.
Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1549 times:
Quoting AA777 (Reply 22): Go to Alabama and 'proclaim' your sexuality and you can easily get beaten or killed. You might even get beaten or killed for being gay in New York City
Difference is that homosexuality is a punishable crime is many Middle East countries.
Quoting AA777 (Reply 22): nd even if it has happened in the West Bank- it does not change the fact that Israel is an oppresive/ occupying nation.
Leads to another question. Why is it popular to protest Israel and not the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Egypt or Qatar or Syria or....
Joni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1487 times:
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 19):
Excellent point. The palestinian culture is influenced by islam. In Islam homosexuality is forbidden. In fact, it is considered a crime punishable by death.
Also in Christianity, homosexuality is forbidden (new testament) and punishable by death (old testament). Most Christians have leaned to conveniently ignore those biblical passages, however.
I think one possible reason for "GLTBQ" support for Palestinians is that they're used to taking the perspective of the oppressed underdog, be it gays in (past) Western culture or Palestinians in (today's) Palestine.
25 L410Turbolet: Eurolefties have their priorities so messed up, it's often more important for them to manifest what they are against than what they are for. They pro
26 MaverickM11: It's probably because the vast majority of GLBT people are very liberal, especially the younger ones, and "Free Tibet/Palestine/Boulder" are all libe
27 Fumanchewd: There are many contradictions in the bible and koran. I am not aware of any states that allow executing gays based upon christian beliefs, however. I
28 Joni: I'm a bit reluctant to label basic human rights a "liberal cause", they should be everyone's cause. I'm not aware that Palestinians execute gays eith
29 OA260: I dont think its got anything to do with being Gay or straight. You get people with many different views in all communities. A small parade does not r
30 Fumanchewd: Again, I don't think that there are many people out there who see it that way, but I am sure that some gays are aware that Iran (a country that has n
31 Joni: Again, I don't think many people think Palestinians should be left to rot under Israel's occupation because many of them they share elements of their
32 Dougloid: Absolutely correct. Welcome to my RU list.
33 Fumanchewd: Man, you are out there. We were discussing possible gay motives for not sympathizing with the Palestinians. That is all. Capiche? Not whether or not
34 UAL747: Well, that argument about the Palestinians feeling opressed could also be challenged by being sympathetic to the Jews because the Jews "were" oppress
35 Dougloid: Huh? WTF? Settle down there feller and have another tot of vodka in your koolaid, it'll steady yer nerves. I doubt if there's going to be much slack
36 Flighty: Gay people know what it is like to be demonized by huge, ultra-powerful masters of the world. The Palestinians know what that feels like, too. Since b
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