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Merry Christmas Atheists!  
User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

Tis the season!

Let's crack open some champagne, decorate the christmas tree, take our kids to be terrified by santa, and sing Christmas carols written after 1950! We'll have a secular old time!

So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

What's your excuse?

QFF

283 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4401 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

What's your excuse?

You already named two perfectly usable ones above...! Big grin

It's ultimately an old heathen midwinter / solstice celebration ritual anyway, just with a thin layer of christian varnish on top. It's still a very nice celebration in many ways...


User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Merry Christmas to everyone that bothers to take the day off, buy crap, or whatever else. And to the people, such as myself, who have to work....Merry Christmas to you too!

 santahat 


User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4392 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
What's your excuse?

Good grief, he's back!!...and firing on all 6 straight outta the blocks! Welcome back you venomous young scrote....been a serious lack of quality insults round here lately  Wink

And in answer to your question....I don't need an excuse to party and if it wasn't for Christmas we would just work like dogs all year round.......even if you don't believe in Jesus....you gotta appreciate the holiday  Smile

and who is Kevin Bloody Rudd anyway.....?????


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

NWA742 -

I'm about as seriously atheist as they come, and I agree - the words "Merry Christmas" are by no means offensive. I have Jewish friends who wish me happay Hannukah, I'm not about to get upset over it. The only atheists who do get upset are those with some serious insecurities. Just accept it as an expression of good-will, I say.

Jafa -

Another good reason!! A day off work!!!

Oh, and "Kevin bloody Rudd" (as you so obtusely call him) is actually our "Dear Leader", who has descended from above on a flock of cranes to save us. He's doing a mighty fine job, and just between you and me he's made my professional life not only easier but busier!

QFF


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5577 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4295 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

 rotfl  Excellent observation!


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4271 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):

Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4270 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

For the same reason other people decide to celebrate a religious holiday in spite of their own stated anti-religious feelings and feel the need to rationalize/justify their desire to share in the season by either cracking wise or attempting to diminish the faith of the religious.

It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

Merry Christmas!!!



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

I'm doing my best to keep a select few stores and shops in business for another year, oh, and a free meal helps!!


I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13047 posts, RR: 78
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

Hey, it's not our fault we were born into a nation that has traditions based on this particular faith!
I see no issue at all, given to how much this shopping/partying splurge is actually about the Christain part.

But the UK, like Australia I'd image, is Christian by tradition, but really pretty secular in the everyday reality.


User currently offlineJCKastrup From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4231 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
What's your excuse?

Christmas means days away from work....That should be enough to celebrate whether you are a christian or an atheist...



Who the hell wants to fly to JFK? Nobody does, That's who!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4236 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
For the same reason other people decide to celebrate a religious holiday in spite of their own stated anti-religious feelings and feel the need to rationalize/justify their desire to share in the season by either cracking wise or attempting to diminish the faith of the religious.

Nonsense. What we know as "christmas" today is actually just a somewhat modified version of much, much older "heathen" solstice festivities (even the date is still almost exactly the same).

It is a part of western culture more than of any actual religion. There is absolutely no "rationalization" required for appropriating parts of one's culture, even if one doesn't share some of the more recent embellishments or superstitions.

It's primarily a nice social family event.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

How other people are celebrating christmas in their own homes is none of your business. But you're probably one of those who suddenly gets the overwhelming urge to get a divorce exclusively because in some countries gay people can marry, right?  hypnotized 


User currently offlineFaustino927 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4211 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

That is because Christmas IS a religious holiday. As a Catholic we celebrate the birth of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays since I am not Jewish or African American.
Merry Christmas to all!!!!



Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4189 times:



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

That and a strong commercial/capitalistic drive. Big grin



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

Welcome back QFF, you rebelious republican, you.  Big grin

May you enjoy a truly Merry Christmas full of the pagan rituals and rites, Yule logs, festive trees, gift giving(& receiving), celebration of the winter/summer solstice(depending on Latitude).  bigthumbsup 

This so called celebration of a 'Johnny come lately' of a couple of millenia ago is so nuevo trendy.  stirthepot 

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

Well I'm a pretty strong athiest, but it's an excuse for a few days off, fill up on mums cooking and free money / girfts from relatives !!

It's a win win situation in my opinion, if I get a day off, I don't care what the occasion is !!
Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4164 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
Merry Christmas Atheists!

Yeah, I plan to tell that to an atheist member of my family. He knows I love him, regardless of his position, although my wishes may offend still, nonetheless.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

How other people are celebrating christmas in their own homes is none of your business. But you're probably one of those who suddenly gets the overwhelming urge to get a divorce exclusively because in some countries gay people can marry, right?

So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business. Excellent - way to tell Ian he's wrong by confirming what he's saying. Better check the contents of your eggnog, Klaus.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4158 times:



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17):
So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business.

Sure. That was my whole point.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17):
Excellent - way to tell Ian he's wrong by confirming what he's saying. Better check the contents of your eggnog, Klaus.

Better check the actual posts above again - he basically claimed that atheists celebrating christmas was

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

But as you apparently agree, whether or how someone else is ceebrating it is actually just their business, not yours, mine or his. If someone feels "trampled on his feelings" by something somebody else is doing in his own home (and not violating any laws), it would indicate a troubling authoritarian mindset.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5577 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4126 times:



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

I suppose. All you're left with is the parties, the presents, the days off, the food and the booze. It would be really terrible . . .


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2088 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4099 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):

It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

Funny you should say that, because most years I just get on with celebrating 'Christmas' without giving it too much thought.

But this year, because of the homophobic abuse I've had from a viscous born-again Christian, I've gone back to having a solstice celebration instead. And, I'll keep talking about it until I can forgive it.

So, everybody............whatever you believe and however you want to celebrate it, have a good one!


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4080 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

What's your excuse?

I like your reasoning, and I will add that it is nice to have a season set aside for sharing with your family.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 4):


I'm about as seriously atheist as they come, and I agree - the words "Merry Christmas" are by no means offensive.

I am as serious atheist as they come, and I wish people a Merry Christmas

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Braybuddy wins the award for best line of the year. Big grin

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):

Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

Well, you have a point. Without the solstice celebrating pagans, we wouldn't have any of this  Wink

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13):
To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays



Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13):
or African American.

Um, you have apparently missed that the vast majority of African Americans are religious Christians.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 4061 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 4):
Oh, and "Kevin bloody Rudd" (as you so obtusely call him) is actually our "Dear Leader", who has descended from above on a flock of cranes to save us. He's doing a mighty fine job, and just between you and me he's made my professional life not only easier but busier!

I suppose that is Kevin from Heaven you folk are talking about?? Interested to know what Kev has made easier, no a criticism just curiosity!!

You would be amused, Klaus, how we manage to justify just about the same for a summer solstice. Bearing in mind we also now have Christmas in July (or something similar) celebrations as well, it is difficult to know how much of the December spendathon is related to religion, other than the religion of consumption.

The nearest to the Scrooge effect this year seems to be the US Sub-prime. And if we are unlucky, it will be the ghost of Christmas yet to come too.

In the meantime Happy Solstice, be it winter or summer.


User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 4053 times:



Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter):
Merry Christmas Atheists!

Thanks! With God's merciful graces, it should be an excellent one! =)


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 4046 times:

Oh man - even a heartfelt Merry Christmas can't be offered w/o folks on both sides getting their panties in a wad. For once folks, let it go, accept it in the spirit it was wished, and just go enjoy the days in whatever fashion brings peace and joy to your mind and/or soul.

Merry Christmas to all!



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
25 Post contains images Mariner : I'm an atheist but I don't need to justify it, to myself or to anyone. I am content that it is a season of goodwill, for whatever reason. I don't liv
26 Allstarflyer : I do have to thank you, Klaus, since, after re-reading it, I see more clearly what he was saying, and not just in a different context concerning your
27 MDorBust : Damn straight, now put my yule tree back out in the yard where it belongs and stop cutting the things down. Wait... what?[Edited 2007-12-21 11:53:25]
28 Post contains links TransIsland : Nicholas V. has arisen from the dead and is reiterating his papal bull [$h|t]... http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/indig-romanus-pontifex.html htt
29 Post contains images CanadianNorth : My excuse: I'm working until 0000 on christmas eve. Then, I get to hop out of bed at 4 the f***ing morning and go back to work for an hour on christma
30 DL021 : And there he goes again! Klausie....I was referring to the specific post by Braybuddy, as well as those who endorsed it, that people seem to ruin Chri
31 Agill : We celebrate the birth of Santa don't we?
32 Post contains images Springbok747 : Welcome back QFF Meh..its just another holiday. At least we're invited to a friend's house this time...will be eating some nice food. Thats about it.
33 Post contains links and images EWRCabincrew : The Dark Truth Of Santa... Hilarious! (by Andaman Dec 14 2007 in Non Aviation) Hilarious
34 QANTASforever : Yes, I have seen the films. Still, "Father Christmas" sound a bit too fruity (read - British) when compared with "Santa Claus". QFF
35 Milan320 : Of course there would be ... capitalism/consumerism would create it. Anyway, Merry XMas and all that crap. /Milan320
36 Post contains images Klaus : Well, coming into a thread explicitly discussing how atheists perceive and celebrate christmas with this gem... ...is a bit much. He obviously equate
37 Halcyon : Completely correct. I don't know that many people who actually celebrate it as the birth of Christ. If you're a Christian, you should really act your
38 Post contains images Klaus : And the same is true for everybody else as well, atheists included!
39 Post contains images Halcyon : True indeed, but Christians might seem (Polite term here!) "silly" if they do so only on that one "special day." And, as other have pointed out, it's
40 FlyboyOz : Helllllo QFF!! Welcome back!!! OMG! It's miracle and it's christmas that you're back!! I am looking forwards to reading your funny posts!! Well time t
41 TheCol : Yup, the airline industry never sleeps. I probably won't get home until 02:00 on the 25, so I'll be napping quite a bit during the day.
42 Post contains images DYflyer : So, the fact that christ is part of the english name for this holliday is proof that it is a christian holliday? What about all the languages that ha
43 Post contains links TACAA320 : Merry Christmas to you too! " The middle of winter has long been a time of celebration around the world. Centuries before the arrival of the man call
44 QANTASforever : Wow TACA - that's actually a very good point in support of the secularisation of Christmas. I'm impressed!
45 AerorobNZ : I will be working my normal 9 hour day, and no i don't wish people a Merry Christmas except my family, who being catholic still go for that kind of th
46 Post contains images DL021 : Klausie....you poor thing. You've got the absolute need to be correct in all things, even when you're pretty damned wrong. It's ok, though. In the spi
47 TACAA320 : Nope. That's was long time before Christ.
48 Post contains images Jafa39 : Good man!! Well said!!! Welcome to my RU list
49 TACAA320 : I second that! [Hat off]. Don't like it? Don't celebrate it. Or at least don't try [unsuccessfully] to spoil the religious celebration... MERRY CHRIS
50 MainMAN : Thank you. I appreciate that greatly. I've had a battle recently with someone who it transpires is not only having a crisis of faith, but also doesn'
51 Braybuddy : There you guys go again . . . a thread by an atheist, for atheists, and you STILL have to drag religion into it . . .
52 MainMAN : Sorry, I'm not an atheist, I'm a non-theist. This is amusing, have you ever heard this? The definition of a militant agnostic? ''I don't know and nei
53 MD11Engineer : Not really, christianisation of Europe was only more or less complete during the early middle ages. Jan
54 Post contains images Braybuddy : Brilliant!
55 Post contains images Baroque : And sadly it also marks us down here starting to give you guys in the other world back "your" sun. Never mind, check out where the sun is closer to t
56 Post contains images DL021 : You must remember that he's battling himself more than anything else, and anything taken out on you is an extension of his internal struggle. It's up
57 TACAA320 : And this is basically the meaning of God = love.
58 TACAA320 : I must admit that sounds [and is] weird. A real "contradictio in terminis [an oxymoron]".
59 Braybuddy : You know it's ironic: there are two other Merry Christmas threads for anyone who wants to pass on festive greetings, and I don't see any atheists in
60 Post contains images DL021 : If you're insinuating that I'm devoutly religious perhaps you should go back and re-read my posts.... I'm just pointing out a flaw in your argument t
61 TACAA320 : By an atheist, yes. Just for atheist... uhmmmmmmmmm No. Can't expressly deduct that from the initial post That religious people [me among the last on
62 Post contains images Toast : Merry "December Get-Together With Your Boring Relatives Who For Some Reason Still Insist On Christmas Decorum And Fucking Bing Crosby's O Holy Night O
63 DL021 : Amen!
64 Braybuddy : Even as a kid I always had doubts about the existence of any sort of higher power, and as I've got older those doubts have become reinforced to a bel
65 TACAA320 : "The more popular"? For the number of posts? I won't be that happy. Maybe for the contradictory of the theme. Not for anything else.
66 Braybuddy : Sorry I just edited my post as you posted, so the last sentence of my quote is slightly different. What I'm pointing out here is that religion doesn'
67 Avek00 : May all find the 2007th anniversary of the birth of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to be a peaceful holiday.
68 N74JW : Thank you. Happy Holidays to you as well - Atheist
69 Allstarflyer : Appreciate it - and in the words of the threadstarter - Merry Christmas Atheists!
70 TACAA320 : That's ok. Thanks a lot for let me know.
71 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : That'll be it!
72 TACAA320 : Thanks God I don't need one ?
73 DL021 : Isn't the point of atheism the belief that there is no higher power and there is no God? A-theistic..... maybe I'm reading it wrong. I can actually s
74 Confuscius : Isn't the point of atheism the belief that there is no higher power and there is no God? A-theistic..... Yep, thank God for Secular Humanism.
75 Mariner : I think you are confusing "Atheism" as a philosophy with the simple fact of "atheism". "Atheism" wasn't really defined until the Enlightenment, but m
76 Baroque : I fully realise that it has been proved beyond all doubt to some a.netters that Klaus and I are joined at the second joint of our sole typing finger,
77 Braybuddy : Your comment about atheists "losing the ability to conceptualise a higher power" was probably not intended the way it came across. I read it as belie
78 DL021 : Upon re-reading that phrase let me clarify....I misused conceptualize, because I can conceptualize the Loch Ness Monster, but I don't believe in Ness
79 TACAA320 : But most of them were polytheist.
80 Post contains images OlegShv : I vote this for the Posting Hall of Fame Clearly the best post in this thread! Enjoy the party Toast!
81 Post contains images N74JW : I think Xmas is for the kids. I am not complaining, I get ten days off from work too! As an atheist, I don't oppose the idea of Christ's birthday. I j
82 Post contains images Mariner : Interesting question. Many Maori have adopted aspects of the US black culture - the word "bro" is now accepted in the Maori language ("te reo Maori,
83 TACAA320 : Nevertheless "Plato was a native of Athens, born in 428/27 B.C., died 348/7 B.C. His family was both wealthy and aristocratic. He was a direct descen
84 Post contains images Mariner : I'm totally unclear what you are trying to say. Socrates was accused of atheism. That does not mean he was, in fact, an atheist. mariner
85 Post contains images DC10extender : Merry Christmas indeed to all you atheists. We Catholics hope to spread you good cheer and hope you come to mass tonight.
86 TACAA320 : His trial was a joke. He [Socrates] was a 70 years old at that time. Unable to defend himself. He was unjustly condemned to drink the cicuta [a poiso
87 Post contains images Mariner : I have never suggested his trial was anything but a joke. However, to a rationalist, he defended himself very well - if unsuccessfully I have never c
88 TACAA320 : I'm just referring to your post #82 and 84. BTW. Can you elaborate a little more the following... Thanks.
89 Post contains links and images Mariner : It's Christmas Day here, and hopefully I am filled with goodwill, but I am puzzled you are attributing to me things I have not said. The Catholic Chu
90 TACAA320 : Did I say "you said this or that ? No. Accused and condemned. Unfairly condemned since he was not atheist. That's what atheism may say. Very convenie
91 Iowaman : Happy Holidays to all!
92 Post contains links Mariner : Please stop putting words in my mouth. I wrote: I have never said "he was an atheist". Other people may claim that, and his philosophy is the certain
93 ScarletHarlot : I won't participate in the debate, but will wish all agnostics and atheists and the religious folks on A.net a Merry Christmas!!
94 TACAA320 : Let see. In reply 75 you said: After that you said Which is partially wrong. Polytheism is not a religion. Is a believe. Then I kindly asked you to:
95 Mariner : No, sir. I have never said he was an atheist. There is no quote from me that says that. Once again, this is vary far off-topic, and I am completely c
96 UAL777 : Kind of. There was an old festival called "mythros" or something like that and it was celebrated in December. It was decided that Christmas would be
97 Klaus : Well, when in doubt go on the offensive. Your alliterative description of my feelings indicates a bit of hysteria on your part. I just called someone
98 Post contains links Baroque : "Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty_Python) With an audio link to the sketch.
99 Post contains images Klaus : Naughty, naughty...!
100 TACAA320 : i know that. Once again. Which "Greeks" are you referring to? When I asked that, your answer was... Which philosophical school[s] [or "Greeks" as you
101 Mariner : That's good enough for me. For the rest I have given you links from both the BBC and the Catholic Encyclopedia, and you refute those sources. I shrug
102 DL021 : Dude...it's Christmas...you lost the logic argument a while back...let it go and go eat some fruitcake or turkey or something. Good point..... For be
103 TACAA320 : All well known since many time ago. Expectable.
104 Mariner : That's right, that's why I gave you the links. Both those sources - the BBC and the Catholic Encyclopedia - describe Epicurus as an atheist. mariner
105 Klaus : There: Waltzing into other people's threads, insulting them right away and accusing them of "trampling on your feelings" for merely viewing things di
106 Post contains links TACAA320 : " Epicurus was a Greek philosopher contemporary with Aristotle (300 B.C.E.), and his philosophic school was fairly influential for many years. Studen
107 Post contains images OlegShv :
108 Post contains images Allstarflyer : But, Klaus . . . if you don't like that, then don't lead by example.
109 Mariner : Why are you telling me what - obviously - I already know and have said from the beginning: Provably, it is still a matter of debate. You are debating
110 TACAA320 : I will never ever do that. Just giving more evidence in my favour. Specially against the second one, which I deeply admire. You said a pretty much di
111 Mariner : Yet you are doing it. I surmised that many posts ago. Yet you agreed - or "partially agreed" - with the statement. mariner
112 Post contains images TACAA320 : Prove it. But not with that specifically. That's your opinion. Mine is obviously different. BTW. Have you ever read something written by Socrates, Pl
113 Mariner : Here you go: I quoted the BBC: TACAA320: You should be telling the BBC, not me. Are you now saying you don't respect the Catholic Encyclopedia? marin
114 Post contains links TACAA320 : I'm talking to you not to the BBC. I respect both [BBC and the Catholic Encyclopedia], but not necessarily share every single word since the first on
115 Mariner : I didn't forget. It is completely irrelevant, but the short answer is "yes". And since you have used personal put-downs in this discussion, here's th
116 TACAA320 : Thanks a lot for your curriculum vitae, but I never asked for it. You can be sure that "this information does not change what is being discussed." I'
117 Mariner : I have never said that. Once again - you have not read or have not understood what I wrote. I have never refered once to him as an atheist. I have sa
118 TACAA320 : Just one clarification. According to Christianity, Christmas ends on January's 6th.. For the rest, I don't have any additional commentary [which must
119 Post contains images Baroque : Surely not another argument looming over when the Greeks think Christmas ends? Peace, please (pretty please) peace?
120 Post contains links TACAA320 : Not related with "ancient Greeks" at all. It's not over until January 6th. for sure. Christmas "time" [not Christmas "day"] begins on December 25 and
121 TACAA320 : Re-read your post 82. [quoting you]"But Socrates was accused of atheism, and people still debate Epicurus, who did not believe in any afterlife or a
122 DL021 : Well, for starters you misquote me. I wasn't referring to my own feelings. Your inaccurate perspective leads you to use false premises to make an inv
123 Klaus : I've quoted you verbatim. Every reader can just scroll back to post #8 to see for him- or herself. Your actual post speaks a completely different lan
124 DL021 : Klausie-poo.....you are certainly determined. I'll give you that. I defended your intelligence on a different thread (perhaps a different forum, I don
125 Klaus : I did not change anything when quoting you. People can easily check for themselves. As for your attempts at getting personal: I'm not interested.
126 Post contains links and images Mariner : Quite right, Baroque. This thread should not end in acrimony at this (suppoesdly) positive time of the year. So - I had a terrific Christmas Day (the
127 DL021 : Are you not reading the way you mislaid and misunderstood my words? And you're already resorting to the "no need to get personal" deflections? Stop i
128 Post contains images LASOctoberB6 : Well I hope y'all had a very good Chrismas (yes, I purposely mispelt Christmas, no one I know ever says the T..) regardless of what this here thread h
129 Klaus : Not at all. Provided you've got evidence. All of your and my posts here are open to be compared and checked by anyone.
130 OlegShv : It looks like it is actually you who is spinning the words around. I understand that you got offended by what Braybuddy said about religion and Chris
131 DL021 : You're free to believe what you like, but I think you aren't reading carefully enough. Nah, I just read something and remarked on a certain level of
132 Post contains links and images Baroque : It is a bit as it would have been on Nov 11 1918 in the front lines if the news had not got back to the artillery that there was a cease fire. As the
133 Klaus : DUde....if you're just going to read that the moon is made of green cheese every time I show you that I wrote it's made of cheddar then you're not go
134 ORFflyer : I read em - you lose. All of them do, and he's owned you nine ways to Sunday. You are so far in left-field, you're out of the stadium. Give it up, an
135 Klaus : That begins to mean anything the moment there's actual evidence presented that I allegedly "misquoted" posts.
136 Braybuddy : Don'tcha just LOVE Christmas for bringing out the worst in people . . .
137 Fumanchewd : Christmas means alot to many of my friends and family. My mother is a very serious Catholic. No lights on their house, just a manger in the front yard
138 Klaus : Nobody said that and nobody will force you to celebrate it as such. Aggressively attacking people who just happen to view it differently than you do
139 Fumanchewd : ??? I never have stated that anyone has forced. I am very open minded. People could celebrate satan on Christmas for all I care. Turning your nose up
140 DL021 : ???? Where's his intolerance? Welcome to Klausworld. As far as Christmas bring out the worst in people...I think that, to be perfectly fair, Christma
141 Klaus : The criterion is whether one can let others be with the way they're celebrating - or not. If you don't like the way I think about things we can talk
142 Fumanchewd : No it wasn't. It is generally about Atheists and Christmas. I see nothing in the op about specific "perceptions of religion and christmas". You natur
143 DL021 : That's what he does. He interprets things in his own way, that often doesn't reflect reality, and he follows up by casting aspersions and deflections
144 Fumanchewd : This is your BS that I am calling. So, my point is that millions of people around the world, including my dear mum, strongly believe that Christmas i
145 Klaus : You accused me of "misquoting" you in my verbatim quote of your post #8. That is the easiest accusation to prove in a forum which records all the pre
146 DL021 : Pull that quote again. Let's break it down if we must. Again. Withdrawing nothing. Your insistence on proper argument is a correct one. If only you'd
147 Post contains images Klaus : No it wasn't. It is generally about Atheists and Christmas. I see nothing in the op about specific "perceptions of religion and christmas". You natur
148 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Bingo! "and celebration plans". Not just Klaus, man I'm done. I haven't tried to change any atheists minds on christmas. You claim to be open minded
149 Klaus : Where? Where? Where? You seem to suffer from severe misinterpretations.
150 Post contains images Fumanchewd : So the christian part is just a "thin layer" with no substance? How open minded and accepting of Christian beliefs! To you, fine. But a broad and gen
151 DL021 : I guess you're ignoring my request that you bring up the quote you feel implicates me as a christian war monger who fears for his life because of all
152 Mariner : A little bit. An atheist (small "a") doesn't necessarily believe that "man is supreme", although some do. mariner
153 Post contains links and images Baroque : Strewth, it is a bit as if David Williamson* was asked to write a play about a nightmare Christmas Party. I think the inestimable Williamson, would n
154 DL021 : Thanks for that insight. I can certainly see that, but how does that atheist classify man on the heirarchy of the natural food chain?
155 Baroque : A bit below the bacteria I suppose??
156 Post contains images Mariner : This is taking it a bit off-topic - again - but it depends on the atheist. There is the philiosphy of Atheism which, I guess, includes that concept o
157 DL021 : I agree it's slightly off topic, but it's clarifying and adds to the conversation and understanding as far as perspectives go. Depends on the man, I g
158 Post contains images Mariner : Yes, of course, I agree. Ms. Greer has seldom seen a chance for a headline she didn't grab. Or a mirror she didn't love. But it does present a differ
159 DL021 : Oh, I don't now about that. Lightheartedness is fun for everyone amused by said lightheartedness. I guess it's only when said lightheartedness is at
160 Mariner : That may be the point of difference. There is a paradox contained within the thread title, and I enjoy paradoxes. I certainly "celebrate" Christmas D
161 DL021 : I agree fully in this. I am forced to admit, in spite of previously admiring the man for his fortitude and general courage in putting his own money w
162 Mariner : Yes, I fully agree. I agree again. I'm not sure how she could do that in Calcutta (and I'm not being literal about fishing, I understand the metaphor
163 DL021 : That's very true. As have I. Happy New Year!
164 Klaus : I and others have presented their respective views of things, without in any way even mentioning people who may hold different ones (except in specif
165 DL021 : ah...sneaking back in for the last word? Right.....you did none of the above. You still have avoided quoting the passages where I demonstrated any suc
166 Baroque : Not really, only one way of avoiding the superiority of bacteria as far as I know!
167 Post contains images DL021 : Condoms and surgical masks?
168 TACAA320 : If your rights are [according to you] "infringed", there is a "SUGGEST DELETION" button for that purposes. If the moderators [who are the ones called
169 Post contains images Braybuddy : Phew! Looks like this thread is finally being wrapped up. And, QANTASforever, it looks like you will rot in hell for starting it. I'm just glad none o
170 Baroque : Not at all. They are already well past those barriers. Just which do you suppose is your final battle in the tree of life?
171 TACAA320 : In my opinion, quite long time ago.
172 Post contains images Mariner : Well - yes. I don't think many atheists are wishing anyone else a Merry Christmas now, at least not for this year. I cannot, of course, speak for wha
173 Baroque : YEP, as long as it is NOT analysed!
174 Braybuddy : Oh God! No doubt someone will find an insult in there . . .
175 Klaus : The onus is on you, and you've still failed to "demonstrate" anything like that thus far. Why should I? I have not changed any quotes - as anybody ca
176 TACAA320 : Whatever. The button is still there. I said sometime ago, that this "type" of threads are "usually" [not "always", but "usually] not precisely "well
177 Klaus : This particular thread would have remained peaceful if not for DL021's and Fumanchewd's unnecessary escalation to which you added your applause above
178 TACAA320 : This is a perfect example, that ratified what I said in my post 176. Thanks. Happy New Year 2008 to you too Klaus !
179 Klaus : Example for what? You and the other complainants about this thread had a choice - to participate peacefully, to abstain or to cause disruption as you
180 TACAA320 : Three points that apply to you too. Once again, "Happy New Year Klaus".[Edited 2007-12-30 09:56:43]
181 Klaus : Absolutely. Whcih is why it wasn't me who went into an unprovoked attack in post #8.
182 Post contains images DL021 : Yeah...when you said you quoted verbatim and didn't. Go back and re-read. Yes you did, and your refusal to go back indicates that you know it and are
183 TACAA320 : That's a shame ! But you [as well as your 'attackers"] have the skills to defend yourself properly. Just use them when necessary.
184 Klaus : You failed to produce that evidence back then as well. Instead of wiggling all over the place simply quote your original post and my alleged "misquot
185 DL021 : It's far more fun to watch you try to evade the truth. You know where you altered the quote to change the person and premise. Go pull it back up. It'
186 Post contains images CALTECH : Oh really, it has nothing to do with the celebration of the birth of Christ? I do believe this is a atheist with a closed mind, otherwise the underst
187 Klaus : If you can't supply proof with a quote - and obviously you can't - you need to retract your accusation. Accusing another poster of intentionally falsi
188 Post contains images Klaus : If it does for you, celebrate it like it does! No problem at all! What I was expressing - and if you re-check you'll see I did so quite clearly - was
189 TACAA320 : Is this making any sense? Christmas is about Jesus birth remembrance, love, forgiveness. We are still in Christmas time until Epiphany. If you don't
190 Klaus : If he is making serious accusations, he has to either substantiate or retract them. It's just proper. If he had wanted to promote a good christmas sp
191 CALTECH : Not clear at all, it was not even remotely near the truth. Of course, making up statements like in the previous posts you have done is not imposing a
192 Klaus : My own view was expressed quite clearly and clearly just as such, with no demand whatsoever that anybody would have had to agree or conform. In my wo
193 Moo : Why do I need an excuse?
194 TACAA320 : Very well said. There in no need for an excuse.
195 Post contains images CALTECH : That view was not very factual, which is what was claimed. Also now with each post, more and more unclear. Also a very untruthful statement of what t
196 Braybuddy : Okay, to the entire human race, including the members of airliners.net: Please find attached herewith, one (1) Seasonal Greeting relating to, and conv
197 DL021 : HAH!!! I'll keep that and put it into the company christmas card next year! I guess you have a point there....are you certain that you don't want to
198 Baroque : I accept, and by the party of the second part return same to the party of the first part. Baroque 30 December 2007 (have to hurry or twill be 2008 er
199 DL021 : Did you get that notarized in triplicate by a justice of the peace?
200 Baroque : Certainly did. I duly notarize the party of the second part returning same to the party of the first part. A Notary I would post this in triplicate,
201 Post contains images DL021 : Wrong form!
202 Post contains links and images Braybuddy : You do a wonderful Lily Tomlin impression, Ernestine . . . oops Baroque!
203 DL021 : Is this the party to whom I am speakink?
204 Braybuddy : Yes Mr DL021, but we atheists are not speakink to you any more sir. Your dime will be refunded sir, when the telephone company is in receipt of the d
205 OlegShv :
206 Blackbird : I'm not religious -- but I celebrate Christmas for a number of reasons: gifts, family members oddly get along, christmas vacation. Andrea Kent
207 DL021 : Well, I'll just take my dime and be talkink to atheists who still like me! I am surprised that you are groupspeakink for the entire group....perhaps
208 TACAA320 : Wrong. The minimum rate now is 0,50c. per each 15 minutes. The ten cents were about ten years ago. We are almost [this part of the world] in 2008. HA
209 Post contains images Mariner : I wish a Happy New year to everyone who celebrates it. But ti is a little too Pagan for me. I go to bed. mariner
210 Post contains images TACAA320 : Happy New Year! FIRST POST IN 2008 [in this thread]
211 Braybuddy : I have to inform you that I am not authorised to speak for this entire group, Mr D, as in delphinium, L as in langoustine, zero, two, one, and if you
212 DL021 : Please to be referink the entire matter to section 245 using form D stroke 1224 section H. Mmmmm... and we are wishink you a Happy New Year! To one a
213 Post contains images Klaus : Neither of that is even a quote, let alone a false one! So all your personal attacks were indeed for absolutely nothing. You're completely empty-hand
214 DL021 : You are completely insane....either that or you think everyone else who has read this thread is stupid. You completely ignored the quote I pointed ou
215 Fumanchewd : I'm not playing his game anymore. He twists words. I've already adequately quoted Klaus dissing christians on their christmas beliefs. He started this
216 Klaus : You have merely claimed that over and over but have been unable to provide evidence. All of my quotes do indeed match the quoted posts verbatim (smal
217 DL021 : I posted the quotes where you misunderstood/lied a couple of times now...why are you refusing to acknowledge this? oh lie deny and counteraccuse.....
218 Post contains images Fumanchewd : You are correct. I am waiting.
219 DL021 : I might ought to ask you to go back and re-read the posts indicated and tell me where precisely you disagree.
220 Post contains images Braybuddy : Aaah . . . the Christmas spirit continues . . . roll on Christmas 2008!
221 Post contains images Klaus : Yep. I left a grace period until most of the religious, secular and pagan festivities subsided, but false accusations of forgery are a bit too seriou
222 DL021 : Both have been provided. I can't help it if you're going to deliberately pretend they don't exist. Your opinions are asinine...not dishonest. It's th
223 Klaus : You have not provided any such quote. You have quoted parts of my posts, not of me "misquoting" you. That is a completely different thing and does in
224 Post contains images Baroque : Let us just talk among ourselves Bb. What was the best and the worst Christmas card you got Bb. Then again, that season in Aus is illuminated by the
225 DL021 : You have got to be joking..... Stop thy insanity. I clearly showed where you changed the words and meaning and then said you quoted me verbatim. You
226 Halls120 : You know, I've sat on the sidelines watching this match, and only now am I moved to comment. I've re-read the post in question, and am honestly puzzl
227 Post contains images Searpqx : Should we start a pool on how close to next Christmas it will be when this debate finally ends? We seem to have immovable object (Ian) up against impe
228 Post contains links TACAA320 : It's officially over [Christmas] today. January 6th., with Epiphany. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05504c.htm
229 TACAA320 : Are they published? Can you give me the name of one?
230 Post contains links Klaus : Do you see that box above where it says "Quoting..."? That is a quote. Since you keep misusing the term at will in your accusations, here is the dict
231 Halls120 : As I said earlier, if you think the OP's post was "venemous," you really need to develop a thinker skin. Compared to some of the stuff I've seen on t
232 Post contains images Klaus : Venomous, please! And as tasteless as it was, it wasn't the worst I've ever seen, nor have I claimed that to be the case. If he hadn't continued and
233 Post contains images Halls120 : Gee, if i new that speeling mistaeks were so importent to yew, I'd make more of them. What's the old adage - when you can't argue substance, criticiz
234 Post contains images JGPH1A : We've had that debate, for which I was cruelly punished ! I refuse to bite again. Haha - we could certainly use this guy over at the Fatwah Board - n
235 Post contains images Klaus : Now that sounds like a binge if anything ever did. Happy regeneration to you in any case! Oh, don't inconvenience yourself. Just when people are quot
236 Post contains images Halls120 : Merry Christmas to you as well! Because of that painful exchange rate, we engaged in excessive consumerism here at home. The problem is, of course, i
237 Mariner : I don't know how he could escalate something that wasn't there. Perhaps you mean initiate? But in any case, I think you should let it go. I've re-rea
238 Klaus : The idea that the original poster can generally set topic and mood for a thread is expressed in the "offtopic rule", among other things. Including th
239 Mariner : I think you're making a mountain of a molehill, but otherwise I shrug. It's your fight - I wasn't "offended". mariner
240 DL021 : OK...to everyone reading this three ring circus of a thread..I apologize for acting like a three year old, but I hate to let someone who's wrong get a
241 Fumanchewd : It is quite clear to me that Klaus suffers from delusions of grandeaur. He fights over his right to be "right" not over what is correct.
242 Braybuddy : Oh I dunno . . . it's usually the devoutly religious who believe they are right above everyone else. If someone has a strong belief, or non belief, b
243 Post contains images Halcyon : I'm quite religious and your statement irritates me. Nay, it enrages me! My pot is the only correct pot, and it's a whole heck of a lot more black th
244 Post contains images Braybuddy : LOL!, well said, well said.
245 DL021 : Did QFF self-delete? I hope not. I liked his posts.
246 Post contains images Fumanchewd : In my opinion this is a human trait and not inclusive to the belief systems of the religious. You are right, pots and kettle. That is the point that
247 DL021 : As long as I'm holding the laser pointer I'm ok with that analogy.
248 Post contains images Klaus : That might have meant anything if you hadn't continued in exactly that same vein thereafter. I beg your pardon? Literal quote by means of the a.net q
249 DL021 : "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!! I am the great and powerful OZ!!!!!" So......you're going with that? Seriously? You are a supreme b
250 Post contains images KevinL1011 : Merry Christmas DL021! Merry Christmas Klaus! And a Holiday message from the not so wise, non-philosopher, repeat offender Rodney King ; Why can't we
251 Post contains images Klaus : Personal attacks as a substitute for arguments yet again. A quote is that box above. Outside of that it's my opinion. If you were actually interested
252 DL021 : Your own definition said it was defined as being inside quotation marks. You ignore the facts you don't like. I agree that you're wasting time. Is th
253 Post contains images Klaus : ...and a great new year to everybody!
254 Post contains links and images ORFflyer : Merry Christmas to you two too!! And for a Happy New Year - go here and take you mind off of this argument: New Years Trip Report – Non-Av Sty
255 Post contains images Braybuddy : Somehow I have the feeling that Klaus could take on the entire membership of a.net over his morning coffee, chew them up and spit them out before get
256 Post contains images Toast : Uh, happy new year, guys, religious or not. May this be a year of peace, prosperity, happiness, and frequent consensual sex with one or more members
257 ORFflyer : Of course he could. In his own mind.
258 TACAA320 : Thanks anyway. Just pure "academical" interest as History of Law Professor. If you change your mind please send the info through my mail provided in
259 Post contains images Klaus : Thank you very much... but that is really not a pleasant thought in any kind or form. Harsh treatment is reserved for certain pet claims and opinions
260 TACAA320 : But it's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth [what I previously said in reply 258].
261 Klaus : I don't see that anyone of us is in possession of the truth. How about keeping that in mind.
262 Post contains images Braybuddy : Surely not Bild?
263 Post contains links and images Klaus : Not really. I just occasionally check out their bizarre headlines in the store for amusement. As far as print media go, it's Der SPIEGEL for me.
264 Braybuddy : You know I was actually going to say that, but decided on something more geographically appropriate instead.
265 Post contains images Klaus : Not a problem... the FAZ just is a bit too ostensibly conservative for my taste. Der SPIEGEL has a habit of pissing off everybody on every side with
266 Post contains images Braybuddy : Ever think of becoming a contributor? You'd make a marvellous religious correspondent.
267 DL021 : From me as well! I have reached a level of understanding about Klaus....his definition of "truth" is a flexible one, that he can change to suit his o
268 Post contains images Klaus : They're doing just fine in that respect... and I'd hardly be an "insider" anyway.
269 Post contains images DL021 : Plus...they probably have some requirements for consistency and honesty.
270 TACAA320 : Great! But you also try to do the same.
271 Klaus : I do. That's why I keep asking for reasoning and evidence, but not for anyone to stop having a different view.
272 Post contains images Fumanchewd : I'll protect my ankles.
273 TACAA320 : Me too. Just try not to forget it. Have a nice day!
274 Post contains images Klaus : Likewise!
275 Post contains images Braybuddy : I think this canine would be far more appropriate! What dogs could represent other a.net members?
276 Post contains links and images Toast : Klaus: Queso: RJdxer: JGPH1A:
277 Post contains links and images Fumanchewd : Superfly Braybuddy Aerowesty Fumanchewd!
278 Braybuddy : LOL! You guys are SO f***ing quick . . .
279 JGPH1A : Ahem. That dog is neither young, thin, beautiful nor gorgeous. 0/10 see me after.
280 DL021 : I've met Superfly. Superfly's a friend of mine. And that's Superfly. A couple of guys saw you doing that and one said to the other... "I wish I could
281 Post contains images TACAA320 : Best post among the two hundred and eighty! An the funniest in 2008...
282 Braybuddy : As of today, 9 January, that's not saying an awful lot . . .
283 Post contains images Baroque : Fascinating. What was he like as a teacher? Sounds like a great experience but you never can tell from the writings what the live performance would b
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