Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Posted (6 years 9 months 20 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics
$1 Billion Project to Include Images of Irises and Faces

By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 22, 2007; Page A01

CLARKSBURG, W. Va. -- The FBI is embarking on a $1 billion effort to build the world's largest computer database of peoples' physical characteristics, a project that would give the government unprecedented abilities to identify individuals in the United States and abroad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...007122102544.html?nav=rss_business

 Yeah sure


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 20 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 19 hours ago) and read 1614 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information

Give up any semblance of privacy, big business knows more about you than the government ever will, and if the government wants it, they can just buy it from big business like everybody else.

California now collects and stores DNA from every person who is arrested for a felony. Thats right, ARRESTED, not convicted. It takes additional proceedings for the acquitted to have it purged.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

This is obviously a serious problem, especially if the data is obtained by arrest not by conviction. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.

Andrea Kent


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1602 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information

I about spit out my tea.  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Chances are that is part of the new background checks (again) we are getting next year ('08).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
This is obviously a serious problem, especially if the data is obtained by arrest not by conviction. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.

And unbelievably, it was voter-instigated through the initiative process.

edit:grammar.

[Edited 2007-12-23 13:42:31]

User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

I'm actually with blackbird on this one. Things are going too far. At what point does the government believe that they do not have access to everything about us?

I for one already am in a DOC database with fingerprints, eye scans, and a DNA profile. It sure the hell wasn't voluntary though.  Smile


User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1582 times:



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 5):
And unbelievably, it was voter-instigated through the initiative process.

Your personal characteristics are not something that is covered by privacy. Do you have any expectation of privacy in preventing the world from knowing how tall you are? No.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Where's that image of the tin foil hat....?

Um why are people freaking out about this? Isn't biometrics already used in certain airports to identify people?



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 2):
big business knows more about you than the government ever will

Big business has DNA profiles and can legally (though through legal backdoors) pass them on to other nations? Big business runs vast CCTV systems? Big business has my fingerprints? I think not.

I'm really looking forward to the day when this data-collecting madness ends just like the McCarthy era ended... although I'm not sure it ever will, and even less sure I'd want to see how (or why) it ends. Wouldn't it be lovely to know some genius hacker has just obtained access to the DNA profiles of several hundred million people?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
Um why are people freaking out about this?

due to the tremendous potential for abuse and the fact that a government spying on its own citizen (read: not trusting them at all) is not trustworthy itself

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
Isn't biometrics already used in certain airports to identify people?

And that is wrong. I shouldn't have to provide fingerprints upon entering the US, there should be no hackable RFID chip in my passport and my government should not be hell-bent on storing as much info on my personal telecommunication habits as it can. Whose business is it what websites I visit when there's no reason to suspect me of anything? Why do they want to use spyware* to snoop on people? That is all wrong, wrong, WRONG.

* not the best article, but I found little useful info on it in English

[Edited 2007-12-23 14:02:20]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Time to move to Montana and build a bunker..................  biggrin 

I'm already fingerprinted, iris scanned, and all that stuff most aviation people go through, and frankly, I don't care.
If the FBI wants my file, they're welcome to it. Now, I only say that since I need access to the States to do my job. If I never travelled there, they have no right to the data, any more than any other country. But since I pay my taxes, and live a crime free life, government databases don't worry me for a second.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Andrea Kent


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1468 times:



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 10):
If the FBI wants my file, they're welcome to it.

We're Sector 7 thank you very much. The FBI...pffffffffffffft.

Anyway, you have a point. I read up on you. Every tidbit, and frankly, I want my 10 minutes back. You're boring dude. Seriously, go rob a Tim Horton's or something. Square.  Wink

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Do not question my authoritai!!!!!!! Now submit already!

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1448 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Come on Andy - run on down to the government offices. Tell em your sick of this crap, and that they need to stop it.

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 10):
But since I pay my taxes, and live a crime free life, government databases don't worry me for a second.

There you have it folks - why worry unless you have something to worry about.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1443 times:

Anyone been to Disney and purchased an annual pass? What do you think is being collected when you put your hand in in the machine when you activate the card for the first time and ever time thereafter you enter the park?

I for one would be completely for biometric database if it would stop me from having to take off my shoes and belt every time I went through an airport security line. However, people seem to have no problem giving the big mouse their biometric data so that they can go in an out of WDW without trouble yet object to handing over the same data to the government when it could actually save lives.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1441 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Don't do anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and Walmart is having a sale on tin foil.




User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

The only thing I'm worried about is the government spending a lot of money on such a system, only to end up with something that doesn't even work.

User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1413 times:



Quoting Aloges (Reply 9):

Big business has DNA profiles and can legally (though through legal backdoors) pass them on to other nations? Big business runs vast CCTV systems? Big business has my fingerprints? I think not.

Big business has far more than your simple description. They know when and where you go, with whom, what you buy, what you eat, drink, etc. How is a record of my iris more harmful?


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Yeah but big business can't arrest you, throw you in jail, ruin your life and it's voluntary for you to be part of it. You get to say no. Government isn't anything like that. There's nothing big business can do with your info that would do you much harm, unless they divulge it, which in turn you can and should sue the life out of them.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1394 times:



Quoting Aloges (Reply 9):
there should be no hackable RFID chip in my passport

You can always "hack" your own passport... with a hammer.

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
We're Sector 7 thank you very much.

The people over at Public Security Section 9 would like a word with you.

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Anyone been to Disney and purchased an annual pass? What do you think is being collected when you put your hand in in the machine when you activate the card for the first time and ever time thereafter you enter the park?

What's truly scary is how warm the Disney print reading machines are... I think they are taking samples to clone a new army of overnight maintenance workers.

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
I for one would be completely for biometric database if it would stop me from having to take off my shoes and belt every time I went through an airport security line.

Heck, I'm for it if it can cut down the number of ID's I'm required to carry from seven to one.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1383 times:

Fumanchewd wrote:
I'm actually with blackbird on this one. Things are going too far. At what point does the government believe that they do not have access to everything about us?

Simple answer, they *don't* believe they do not have a right to access everything to know about us.


Airfoilsguy,

The Constitution is supposed to restrict government invasion of privacy; There should be limits as to what the government is allowed to gather on it's population; on members who have committed no crimes.


Andrea Kent


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1381 times:



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
They know when and where you go

If I didn't participate in the railways' loyalty programme, always paid for my tickets with cash and didn't have their discount card, they'd have no way at all of knowing except sending someone to follow me. Obviously, the same does not apply to the little bit of air travel I do.

Likewise, if I paid for everything with cash, no one but my bank (through cash withdrawal records) would be able to even vaguely track me provided I don't check into a ho(s)tel. I'd have to stop using my mobile phone and possibly, some tracking could be done through the IP addresses I access the web from, but off the top of my head, that's it.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
with whom

How? Rail tickets can easily be anonymous, car journeys are and when you visit people, there aren't any ho(s)tel records either.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
what you buy

Again, I can pay with cash if I don't want my purchases to be associated with my plastic money.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
what you eat, drink

And yet again, how? Unless I tell people what I've got in my fridge, how is anyone going to find out? I don't buy groceries online, hardly ever go to a restaurant let alone one belonging to a chain corporation and there aren't any bulky types in black suits and sunglasses near checkout in the supermarkets I shop at.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
How is a record of my iris more harmful?

It (and DNA records as well as other highly personal info) is because it's mandatory, *
- a form of identification rather than market research
- stored on government computers (highly attractive to hackers from, say, the PR of China)
- quite happily passed on to agencies from foreign nations that have no business accessing my data
- a crass breach of secrecy (that I as a med student would get in trouble for)
- appeasement of "safety fascists" (quoting, IIRC, David Dimbleby) who think permanent surveillance is needed and able to make this world a perfectly safe place - Where will that lead?
- if integrated into RFID chips in ID documents it's accessible to hackers as demonstrated with a British passport

And most importantly, I cannot bring myself to trusting any form of agency or government that thinks I myself am so untrustworthy they need to keep an eye on me 24/7.

* quotes and links on request, can't be bothered to look for them if no one's going to look at them anyway  Wink



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1367 times:



Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):
Rail tickets can easily be anonymous

Not if you're travelling with Amtrak. They now require an ID from anyone purchasing a ticket, regardless of form of payment, and your name is on the ticket. Not as anonymous as it used to be!



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1359 times:



Quoting LH459 (Reply 22):
Not if you're travelling with Amtrak.

Bit of a niche player though, aren't they?  Wink Interestingly enough, even Greyhound Lines (who in Europe, I'd venture to say, are synonymous with American intercity bus services) apparently are beginning to require photo ID upon boarding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Lines#Security



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1344 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 19):
The people over at Public Security Section 9 would like a word with you.

Oh, there just pissed off 'cuz I swiped a box of pens from the main office. Besides they're just mad cuz they lost the coin toss for which group gets Andrea Kent.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


25 Mham001 : Not that I necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but where does the Constitution mention privacy? You as a medical student will not live in the w
26 Post contains images Avt007 : I would, but the lineups are too long, and we Canadians don't like to jump the queue! Now that would be good. I fly for business all the time, and it
27 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Really? Then how do you explain the summer of '05 incident. Remeber, Sector 7 knows all. B4e-Forever New Frontiers
28 Post contains images Avt007 : I'm not at liberty to discuss that incident, which may or may not have occurred, at a date/time/place where I may not have existed. If you were famil
29 Cfalk : Boy, the paranoids are out in force today. Interesting how some of the same people who say that government should provide our health care and old age
30 Post contains images Baroque : Expect to find the UK version available real soon now as a DVD on the seat of a tube train near you.
31 Post contains links Aloges : Can I return that in some "OMG Arab Terrorists!" thread? Oh, the government may very much know who I am, no problem with that. What I do have a probl
32 Baroque : C'mon, Aloges, I never thought you were a meanie!! Therein may well lie the real rub. When I see what is done to scientific data greedily hoarded int
33 Cfalk : What does that have to do with biometrics and means of identifying you physically?
34 Aloges : The applications of that: Catching criminals and preventing terrorism are of course desirable, but the question is whether comprehensively collected
35 Cfalk : DNA evidence IS 'Actual Evidence' - far better than an eyewitness or such things. And evidence is what it is. If DNA shows that I was at the scene of
36 Blackbird : Mham001, One problem I have with the voter initiative process is that people get caught up in trends... whether it be one thing or another. Oh sure it
37 Queso : How much of your own biometric information goes "the government" have? How did they get it? What can they do with it? Does it not frighten you that y
38 Blackbird : If I didn't go online to post, I wouldn't be able to get a message out very far now would I? Plus I routinely delete cookies and don't post on many fo
39 Bagpiper : So? Big whoopdy-doo! If you don't commit a crime, then they will never use that information against you. If you DO commit a crime, you need to be caug
40 Post contains images Avt007 : Note to self- It's time to "drop off the grid". Fellow Anetters- please burn this post after you read it. Seriously people, paranoia can get out of h
41 Blackbird : Bagpiper, The "If you don't commit a crime you shouldn't care" is not in line with the Constitution, which forbids unnecessary search and seizure. The
42 Bagpiper : Show me, tell me, or whatever, how your: height weight eye color face shape finger prints ear lobe size palm print walking style is personal informat
43 Post contains links and images Aloges : Character... precisely what I meant with "communication and movement patterns". So, here we are: I think all this data collecting mania may lead to a
44 Bagpiper : Why is everything about terrorism now? Yes - its a threat - but there is still plain old street crime out there. And tons of un-solved cases. Questio
45 Falcon84 : I keep telling you guys this shit is coming, but a lot of you don't believe it. The VChip, the opening of borders, the dissolution of nations. All thi
46 Post contains images Boeing4ever : See this? This is like a "Do whatever I want and get away with it badge". I'm the government! I AM THE LAW! I refer you to Protocol 57, section 27, p
47 Post contains images Aloges : I suggest you ask those politicians who benefit the most from that fear.
48 Baroque : As Tom Lehrer famously said: "I hope they are half as scared as I" where "they" in this case means both the Terry Wrists of this world and the pollie
49 Post contains images Queso : I can't believe you just "outed" me! Cheese, shotguns, conservative......I'm surprised it too you so long though. I want to believe it, I really do,
50 MDorBust : I believe you are actually with a false agency who's sole purpose is to raise paranoia about the government and encourage anarchy and mistrust. All t
51 Post contains links and images Boeing4ever : Don't worry about. However, I'm gonna ask you to stand here next to MD, Andrea/Andrew, Avt, etc. Jury's still out on that one. NSA thinks Andrew, Sec
52 Avt007 : Do we have to sit on the Group W bench? (Another obscure, self-aging reference!)
53 Post contains images Boeing4ever : hmmmmmm. I'd need to file that with the back office. I'd need a W3455234663 form, 14 forms of ID, your first born, and the results of a colonoscopy.
54 Post contains images Avt007 : Don't dodge the question You get extra points for knowing what the Group W bench is.
55 Post contains links and images Boeing4ever : I remember some vague connection to the Westinghouse Corporation...data found using the Government Owned, Operated, Generic Learning Enternet (Google
56 Blackbird : Mham, Privacy is covered in the constitution in the fact that it forbids unreasonable search and seizures. Falcon84, Andrea Kent
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
FBI Warns Of Possible Suicide Attacks posted Fri May 21 2004 05:05:02 by Concord977
N.Y., Wis. Opt Out Of Anti - Crime Database posted Sat Mar 13 2004 01:58:35 by Bruno
FBI's Previous Knowledge Of Sept 11th Attacks posted Thu May 16 2002 11:42:51 by JETPILOT
Congress Prepares To Repeal Freedom Of Speech posted Wed Feb 13 2002 20:49:36 by N400QX
Finally, My 1st. And 1 Of A Kind Photo In Database posted Thu Aug 2 2001 06:06:05 by Superfly
FBI - Worst Of The Worst? posted Wed Jul 18 2001 02:22:07 by Hkgspotter1
Size Of Airliners.Net Database posted Tue Dec 19 2000 10:32:34 by 9A-CRO
Wife's HS Football Team Subject Of Espn Series posted Sun Dec 23 2007 10:43:12 by Tom in NO
2007 A Year Of A.net Meets! posted Sun Dec 23 2007 10:16:56 by RJdxer
Final Face Pic Thread Of 2007 posted Fri Dec 21 2007 18:21:27 by Flynavy